Oh, did not see that. At least I was able to provide a link to the thread where it can be discussed ;)We were just discussing it ;)
This really came out of nowhere...hmm.
Oh, did not see that. At least I was able to provide a link to the thread where it can be discussed ;)We were just discussing it ;)
This really came out of nowhere...hmm.
Oh, did not see that. At least I was able to provide a link to the thread where it can be discussed ;)
So I'm curious now who gave Cerny his mandate for what is wanted in the box. We've basically gone through three people. Is most likely house/kodera? Communal effort?
Cerny and his engineering team, after discussing with developers, put together what they think will drive the future of their hardware business and if it's a good pitch then the President approves it.
That's how I imagine it works for them.
Here are some of Shawn Layden's words in the Game Informer interview today that may or may not imply something regarding possible BC plans?
"What is it about having a streaming service like PlayStation Now that differentiates it from your other gaming experiences. Certainly I think one of the big benefits of PlayStation Now is its ability, on my PS4, to play the PS3 catalogue. One of the terrible circumstances of our gaming industry is that every time we launch a new console technology, we sort of put the last generation to bed. That doesn't occur in movies. That doesn't occur in music, but it occurs all the time in games. But PS Now is a way where all of a sudden you can bring back to life an entire PS3 catalogue though your PS4, through the streaming technology. It's kind of new, kind of different. You can see what that would suggest for the future, so I think that was a good experiment. Maybe we didn't explain it enough to really illustrate why it should be important to you."
Tbh, this doesn't sound that way. It sounds about you can still stream those games for extra money even you own the disc, just like today. But I hope I am wrong ... (regarding PS3 BC, I don't think they scrap PS4 BC on console, that would be a horrible message)I hope by "You can see what that would suggest for the future, so I think that was a good experiment" he means that streaming will be around for BC but the games can be played locally too.
Tbh, this doesn't sound that way. It sounds about you can still stream those games for extra money even you own the disc, just like today. But I hope I am wrong ...
You don't like to have a little bit of fun?For your own sanity, don't venture into the Jim Ryan president SIE thread
For your own sanity, don't venture into the Jim Ryan president SIE thread
. The defence has been mostly towards "give him a chance". Which sounds reasonable, to me atleast
Like he just came out of nowhere and wasn't in charge of PS Europe since PS1 days...
That's in regards to his backwards compatibility comments. Which who knows, maybe if he was in charge years ago it would mean something or nothing. Who knows. Generally speaking, if someone has that kind of succesful track record they should expect to get promoted
Devs & Journos at the same meeting, lot of talk, some closed door conversations, ....
To be fair the only game which runs at 4K with good fps on the X it's RDR2 in my memories. The other AAA you mentioned are not even 4k native and most lean to run less stable on the X. So if you want to use this argue against Cerny, it seems indeed he was right.
And speaking about CBR, use RDR2 as example how the CBR is a "failure" when it's the only a single game with an awful implementation and most of the developers prefer to use it, again prove how Cerny is on the point about many stuff related to future gpu tech.
And Metro Exodus ....How you are able to say this in a world where Forza 7 , Forza Horizon 3 and 4, Halo 5 , Assassin's Creed Origins and Odyssey exists is baffling. They all run at 4k natively with stable performance on a 6tf machine.
And if RDR2 can make it 4k and stable performance, Cerny's theory is proven wrong , objectively.
Is being in the company since 1994, become marketing leader in europe and in other countries.Anyone have a bio on Jim? What is history with gaming in general?
How you are able to say this in a world where Forza 7 , Forza Horizon 3 and 4, Halo 5 , Assassin's Creed Origins and Odyssey exists is baffling. They all run at 4k natively with stable performance on a 6tf machine.
And if RDR2 can make it 4k and stable performance, Cerny's theory is proven wrong , objectively.
Why does that matter? He was responding to a grossly incorrect statement made about the X1X's 4K capacity (though the poster of said statement is not surprising at all). The console IS capable of competent 4K gaming. The end.Does every single x1 enhanced game run 4k 30fps solid? Do even three quarters do that?
Does every single x1 enhanced game run 4k 30fps solid? Do even three quarters do that?
What does that mean, across the board? I certainly don't believe that 8TF would give across the board 4k. Obviously more 4K gaming than the X. But, developers will easily find ways to use more than 8TF and blow up that Cerney quote. Developers will sacrifice something for games to play at 4K across the board or just checkerboard again to meet those fps goals. Just like 6TF could be across the board if developers wanted to sacrifice even more then 8TF would require. It will always be a matter of what you want to sacrifice to get there. If RDR2 can do 4K on the X every game should - but that is not the case is it? and it won't be for a 8TF based console as well.Cerny was right in stating that you'd need 8TF to have all current gen games render in 4K across the board IMO. However that poster was flat-out wrong in saying that only 1 game on XB1X runs at 4K with a "good" fps. I don't even own any flavor of XB1 and I know that's a lie.
thats the thing a 8tfp gpu = a 2rfps gpu at 1080p, hell even 12tfps only = a 3 tfp gpu at 1080p. I know I am in the monority on these fourms, but I will take preformce over rez any day of the week. yeah I know 4k sells boxes, oh well.What does that mean, across the board? I certainly don't believe that 8TF would give across the board 4k. Obviously more 4K gaming than the X. But, developers will easily find ways to use more than 8TF and blow up that Cerney quote. Developers will sacrifice something for games to play at 4K across the board or just checkerboard again to meet those fps goals. Just like 6TF could be across the board if developers wanted to sacrifice even more then 8TF would require. It will always be a matter of what you want to sacrifice to get there. If RDR2 can do 4K on the X every game should - but that is not the case is it? and it won't be for a 8TF based console as well.
What does that mean, across the board? I certainly don't believe that 8TF would give across the board 4k. Obviously more 4K gaming than the X. But, developers will easily find ways to use more than 8TF and blow up that Cerney quote. Developers will sacrifice something for games to play at 4K across the board or just checkerboard again to meet those fps goals. Just like 6TF could be across the board if developers wanted to sacrifice even more then 8TF would require. It will always be a matter of what you want to sacrifice to get there. If RDR2 can do 4K on the X every game should - but that is not the case is it? and it won't be for a 8TF based console as well.
We're not talking about an exponential increase in CPU perf, more a scaling factor of 2-3x.
He was giving a rough estimate of what you would need, compute wise, to take most PS4 games that run at 1080p and get them running at native 4K. That's all. It wasn't a rule. It wasn't a promise. It wasn't a projection of any actual hardware. It was just a way to say quadrupling your resolution roughly quadruples your shading requirements.
How you are able to say this in a world where Forza 7 , Forza Horizon 3 and 4, Halo 5 , Assassin's Creed Origins and Odyssey exists is baffling. They all run at 4k natively with stable performance on a 6tf machine.
And if RDR2 can make it 4k and stable performance, Cerny's theory is proven wrong , objectively.
What does that mean, across the board? I certainly don't believe that 8TF would give across the board 4k. Obviously more 4K gaming than the X. But, developers will easily find ways to use more than 8TF and blow up that Cerney quote. Developers will sacrifice something for games to play at 4K across the board or just checkerboard again to meet those fps goals. Just like 6TF could be across the board if developers wanted to sacrifice even more then 8TF would require. It will always be a matter of what you want to sacrifice to get there. If RDR2 can do 4K on the X every game should - but that is not the case is it? and it won't be for a 8TF based console as well.
What magnitude of increase would make it exponential? Hint: you can't meaningfully extrapolate an exponential curve from two points. If CPU increases even by a factor of 1.01x each generation then the growth is exponential. It's just that the exponent is small. Growth must be a fixed difference (eg: +1TF per generation in a GPU) for it to be linear. More complex curves that are not simply linear or exponential growth are likely quadratic or a higher order function.
Sorry, but a pet peeve of mine because the term "exponential" gets misused all the time. I had to correct it in a document headed for VP review at work just the other day.
We're not talking about an exponential increase in CPU perf, more a scaling factor of 2-3x.
If you take a current gen game that is CPU bound (and many are), double the framerate, then you only have 0 to 1x jaguar compute performance to leverage for increased simulation complexity. It's nowhere near as large an increase as you seem to be suggesting.
The issue with performance options is that for CPU bound games, running at twice the framerate isn't even possible for a game designed for 30fps. In which case, the mere act of choosing to include performance mode doesn't come for free but requires you to specifically design your game for 60fps then scale back for 30fps play. If a game doesn't even benefit all that much from 60fps, then sacrificing your perf. budget to just to provide an option starts to make less and less sense.
Also the game genres you cite as being 60fps have generally been 60fps every gen since forever, primarily because it makes most sense for many games in those genres.
If anything I'd argue a much lower proportion of games this and last gen are 60fps, as in the PS2 generation and before 60fps was pretty much ubiquitous across all games.
I understand why some gamers want 60fps, but adding in the option doesn't come without a cost, be that a reduction in the scope of the dev's vision for the game, a simplification mechanics or reduction in simulation complexity, i.e. all the sacrifices required to design for 60fps from the outset.
I think we'll have to see, because we may have reached a plateau in CPU computational demand for games in the most popular genres, in which case the extra perfornance Zen brings can more or less provide 60fps "for free" (which is what I think you're assuming).
I personally suspect we're not there yet, and devs will have been cultivating ideas for the last 6yrs that they've been itching to unleash but haven't been able to do so because of the current gen weak CPUs. This turning out to be the case, I wouldn't want devs to rein in their ambition for the sake of 60fps that doesn't matter to games in many genres.
「4Kでネイティブにレンダリングするなら、個人的な試算ですが、最低でも8TFLOPSは必要になるでしょう」とサーニー氏は言う。それは少なくとも、今年リーズナブルな価格で使える技術ではない。「一目で違いがわかるパワーアップ版PS4」とするために、PS4 Proは、非常に多くの工夫の元に作られているのだ。
Google Translate:
"If you render natively in 4K, but is a personal estimate, 8TFLOPS at a minimum will be necessary," said Cerny. It is not at least a technology that can be used at reasonable prices this year. To make it "power up version PS 4 which shows the difference at a glance", PS 4 Pro is made based on a great deal of ingenuity.
7 games in a universe of 500 games.How you are able to say this in a world where Forza 7 , Forza Horizon 3 and 4, Halo 5 , Assassin's Creed Origins and Odyssey exists is baffling. They all run at 4k natively with stable performance on a 6tf machine.
And if RDR2 can make it 4k and stable performance, Cerny's theory is proven wrong , objectively.
Lol. I still remember the DF thread with RDR2's 4K analysis. It was hilarious cos prior to that analysis many here had written it off as a foolish rumor saying the 1X wasn't capable of running that game at 4K.How you are able to say this in a world where Forza 7 , Forza Horizon 3 and 4, Halo 5 , Assassin's Creed Origins and Odyssey exists is baffling. They all run at 4k natively with stable performance on a 6tf machine.
And if RDR2 can make it 4k and stable performance, Cerny's theory is proven wrong , objectively.
Agreed.. and there are more titles listed in the Xbox 1X enhanced thread. I remember DF saying MS did a stress test of all major 3rd party game engines on the 1X prototype hardware during it's development and that's one of the reasons they produced such a capable machine. I hope they do same with all versions of Scarlett.
Cernys comment was about running most the current gen games at 4k not just select few. so if XB1x can run 30% of its library at 4k with 6 TF , definitely what cerny said is correct that u would need 8 TF to run majority of the titles at 4k... Agreed.. and there are more titles listed in the Xbox 1X enhanced thread.
Lol. I still remember the DF thread with RDR2's 4K analysis. It was hilarious cos prior to that analysis many here had written it off as a foolish rumor saying the 1X wasn't capable of running that game at 4K.
Agreed.. and there are more titles listed in the Xbox 1X enhanced thread. I remember DF saying MS did a stress test of all major 3rd party game engines on the 1X prototype hardware during it's development and that's one of the reasons they produced such a capable machine. I hope they do same with all versions of Scarlett.
I said the only AAA games with stable fps in 4k with demanding scenario it's just RDR2 from my memory. And it's not like a single game could change the whole narrative around the 4k. Hitman series or TR (the last wasn't even native to be fair) showed unstable fps too often. I never talked of first party games...and it baffling me you continue to spit out AAA titles which are not absolutely 4k like AC series (should be around 1600-1800p). No offence but it seems pretty clear you are just repeating the marketing spin of the real 4k machine by MS more than provide data.Cerny was right in stating that you'd need 8TF to have all current gen games render in 4K across the board IMO. However that poster was flat-out wrong in saying that only 1 game on XB1X runs at 4K with a "good" fps. I don't even own any flavor of XB1 and I know that's a lie.