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Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019

When will the first 'next gen' console be revealed?

  • First half of 2019

    Votes: 593 15.6%

  • Second half of 2019(let's say post E3)

    Votes: 1,361 35.9%

  • First half of 2020

    Votes: 1,675 44.2%

  • 2021 :^)

    Votes: 161 4.2%
  • Total voters
    3,790
  • Poll closed .
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christocolus

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
only_fools_&_horses said:
And yet X1X can't run games in 4k with UE4 and some Frostbite engine
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Lol. How does your comment validate anything? The One X is far more capable than what you all thought. even DF have been pleasantly surprised by some stuff the 1X has been able to pull off on some demanding titles or are you suggesting the PS4 is a better 4k machine? How does your comment prove us wrong?
How you are able to say this in a world where Forza 7 , Forza Horizon 3 and 4, Halo 5 , Assassin's Creed Origins and Odyssey exists is baffling. They all run at 4k natively with stable performance on a 6tf machine.

And if RDR2 can make it 4k and stable performance, Cerny's theory is proven wrong , objectively
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And Metro Exodus ...
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When there are ambitious titles like RDR2 , Division 2 , Metro, Gears 4 , FH4 etc all running @ a native 4k? I don't even know what to tell you.
 
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only_fools_&_horses

only_fools_&_horses

Banned
Jan 17, 2019
964
christocolus said:
Lol. How does your comment validate anything? The One X is far more capable than what you all thought. DF has mentioned this so many times or ate you suggesting PS4 is a better 4k machine? How does your comment prove us wrong?
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Where the fuck i said that PS4 Pro is better 4k machine?
And your comment does validate anything. LOL. Vast majority of games on X1X ARE NOT in native 4k. ONLY THAT FACT PROVES YOU WRONG! Cheers!
 
christocolus

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
only_fools_&_horses said:
Where the fuck i said that PS4 Pro is better 4k machine?
And your comment does validate anything. LOL. Vast majority of games on X1X ARE NOT in native 4k. ONLY THAT FACT PROVES YOU WRONG! Cheers!
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Pls show me the facts then. I know the 6TF console is pulling off native 4k on some of the most graphically demanding open world titles currently. That is a fact.
 
chris 1515

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
christocolus said:
Pls show me the facts then. I know the 6TF console is pulling off native 4k on some of the most graphically demanding open world titles currently. That is a fact.
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The fact is simple not all 1080 PS4 game are 4k on Xbox One X, end of the discussion...

EDIT: Games have different bottleneck maybe bandwidth is one bottleneck for Red Dead Redemption 2 and not ALU power, for other it is ALU bound and can't scale to 4k on Xbox One X.
 

Deleted member 18951

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,531
only_fools_&_horses said:
You have the thread for enhanced X1X titles. Go count them. I know i didn't said anything wrong.
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Sorry, with your insistence on FACTS I thought you would have known. I can't be arsed counting all the games in that thread all I know is that a lot of the games I currently play and will buy in the future are for my X are 4K. Maybe if im bored during my lunch break and crunch the numbers and come back to you, then you will be able to deal in FACTS.
 
Fastidioso

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
Anthony Hopkins said:
Cernys comment was likely missing detail.
But if you take the statement at face value, it is incorrect.
So you're both right.
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In what way is incorrect? It's just a rough estimation. Shouldn't be intended to be an indisputable physics law. Neither ps4 could be considered a true 1080p hardware as example because many games are not. But we are talking for approximation and samples.
 
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only_fools_&_horses

only_fools_&_horses

Banned
Jan 17, 2019
964
User Banned (3 days): History of aggressive behaviour and system wars
Bits N Pieces said:
Sorry, with your insistence on FACTS I thought you would have known. I can't be arsed counting all the games in that thread all I know is that a lot of the games I currently play and will buy in the future are for my X are 4K. Maybe if im bored during my lunch break and crunch the numbers and come back to you, then you will be able to deal in FACTS.
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LOL. Doesn't mean that if your games that you play on X1X are in 4k, all others are. Isn't it?
If you have a time for playing and for a launch break, then you have a time for counting how many enhanced games are 4k native on X1X.Fucking EOD with you and with christocolus.
 
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TheTruthofKayle

TheTruthofKayle

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
2,877
chris 1515 said:
The fact is simple not all 1080 PS4 game are 4k on Xbox One X, end of the discussion...

EDIT: Games have different bottleneck maybe bandwidth is one bottleneck for Red Dead Redemption 2 and not ALU power, for other it is ALU bound and can't scale to 4k on Xbox One X.
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saying that 6 tf are enough to run ALL games in 4k ...is wrong
cerny saying that u need 8 tf to run games in 4k as been proved multiple times wrong
not matter how people like to spin it
 
christocolus

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
only_fools_&_horses said:
And the fact is that vast majority of titles aren't native 4k. You have a thread for enhanced X1X titles.
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OK. I think I'll have to stop here. It's going no where.

chris 1515 said:
The fact is simple not all 1080 PS4 game are 4k on Xbox One X, end of the discussion...

EDIT: Games have different bottleneck maybe bandwidth is one bottleneck for Red Dead Redemption 2 and not ALU power, for other it is ALU bound and can't scale to 4k on Xbox One X.
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Whike you may be right I can remember the DF analysis of RDR2. They did say the game on the 1X runs @native 4k while still having better graphical features than base Xbox , Ps4 and Pro.
Bits N Pieces said:
Sorry, with your insistence on FACTS I thought you would have known. I can't be arsed counting all the games in that thread all I know is that a lot of the games I currently play and will buy in the future are for my X are 4K. Maybe if im bored during my lunch break and crunch the numbers and come back to you, then you will be able to deal in FACTS.
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It's amazing how people still try to downplay the capabilities of the 1X. Yet the proof is out there for all to see.
 
Anthony Hopkins

Anthony Hopkins

Banned
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Fastidioso said:
In what way is incorrect? It's just a rough data. Shouldn't be intended to be a physics law. Neither ps4 could be considered a true 1080p hardware because many games are not. But we are talking for approximation.
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"Personal calculations would be necessary if rendering natively in 4K, but at least 8 TFLOPS would be necessary"

That is the original statement from the source.

https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/rt/1026717.html

It is incorrect because the 1X has proven this statement wrong.
 
Fastidioso

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
Anthony Hopkins said:
"Personal calculations would be necessary if rendering natively in 4K, but at least 8 TFLOPS would be necessary"

That is the original statement from the source.

https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/rt/1026717.html

It is incorrect because the 1X has proven this statement wrong.
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Because he used the ps4 as base of the calculation for 1080p games. 4k games are possible on ps4 too, no need to be so pragmatic about every word, come on.
 
Screen Looker

Screen Looker

Member
Nov 17, 2018
1,963
It seems like ya'll are arguing in circles about this. It may be best to just let it go.

Clearly, Xbox One games are optimized to run at 4K on the X1X. But we've also seen multiple games have not so glowing results of trying to do that.

We've also seen games that did and looked great.

It's a wash, I'm not sure dedicating time to count how many games is which of those two things really matters in the grand scheme.
 
chris 1515

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
TheTruthofKayle said:
saying that 6 tf are enough to run all games in 4k ...is wrong
cerny saying that u need 8 tf to run all games in 4k is at the same way wrong
not matter how people like to spin it
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If a game is ALU bound 8 Tf is enough to run a PS4 game at 4k if bandwith bound not true . Thorically you need 704 Gb/s to run all games at 4k but practically it is probably much less because better memory compression for Xbox One X. It was an approximation on his side but I think he knows this, but explain this during an interview is a bit difficult.
 
Fastidioso

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
Screen Looker said:
It seems like ya'll are arguing in circles about this. It may be best to just let it go.

Clearly, Xbox One games are optimized to run at 4K on the X1X. But we've also seen multiple games have not so glowing results of trying to do that.

We've also seen games that did and looked great.

It's a wash, I'm not sure dedicating time to count how many games is which of those two things really matters in the grand scheme.
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It's not a waste of time. Does the X offers 4k in the most of the games? Not seems. It's a simple statistic.
 
only_fools_&_horses

only_fools_&_horses

Banned
Jan 17, 2019
964
TheTruthofKayle said:
saying that 6 tf are enough to run ALL games in 4k ...is wrong
cerny saying that u need 8 tf to run games in 4k as been proved multiple times wrong
not matter how people like to spin it
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100% all games in native 4k, not some of them like on X1X. That Cerny meant, all of them.

christocolus said:
OK. I think I'll have to stop here. It's going no where.


It's amazing how people still try to downplay the capabilities of the 1X. Yet the proof is out there for all to see.
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Amazing how some people are trying to spin something that wasn't said at all. No one said that X1X isn't capable to run games in native 4k. NOBODY! Only that 6 TF isn't enough to run all games in native 4k. And vast majority of enhanced games aren't in 4k native.
 
christocolus

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
only_fools_&_horses said:
100% all games in native 4k, not some of them like on X1X. That Cerny meant, all of them.



Amazing how some people are trying to spin something that wasn't said at all. No one said that X1X isn't capable to run games in 4k. NOBODY ! Only that 6 TF isn't enough to run all games in native 4k. And vast majority of enhanced games aren't in 4k native
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Lol. Are you still on this? xD.
Bits N Pieces said:
Sorry, with your insistence on FACTS I thought you would have known. I can't be arsed counting all the games in that thread all I know is that a lot of the games I currently play and will buy in the future are for my X are 4K. Maybe if im bored during my lunch break and crunch the numbers and come back to you, then you will be able to deal in FACTS.
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Lol. So funny. I don't even know what to say anymore.
 
TheTruthofKayle

TheTruthofKayle

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
2,877
honest question... from a purely hardware design point of view which product has Cerny signature? that I know PS Vita ... PS4 Pro and PS4 ..although the last two have largely won from a market point of view, none of these products can be considered revolutionary or cutting edge ..under any circumstances. I've been asking myself for a while but apart from the fact that he works for a company that has a huge media response to its users. The fame comes more from a software developer point than as a leading design hardware or have there been outside those playstation brand some revolutionary products ala "kuturagi"?

I'm really intrigued this halo of untouchability comes from a particular product or is simply a fan made thing
 
Anthony Hopkins

Anthony Hopkins

Banned
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
chris 1515

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
TheTruthofKayle said:
honest question... from a purely hardware design point of view which product has Cerny signature? that I know PS Vita ... PS4 Pro and PS4 ..although the last two have largely won from a market point of view, none of these products can be considered revolutionary or cutting edge ..under any circumstances. I've been asking myself for a while but apart from the fact that he works for a company that has a huge media response to its users. The fame comes more from a software developer point than as a leading design hardware or have there been outside those playstation brand some revolutionary products ala "kuturagi"?

I'm really intrigued this halo of untouchability comes from a particular product or is simply a fan made thing
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https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php?print=1

The three "major modifications" Sony did to the architecture to support this vision are as follows, in Cerny's words:

  • "First, we added another bus to the GPU that allows it to read directly from system memory or write directly to system memory, bypassing its own L1 and L2 caches. As a result, if the data that's being passed back and forth between CPU and GPU is small, you don't have issues with synchronization between them anymore. And by small, I just mean small in next-gen terms. We can pass almost 20 gigabytes a second down that bus. That's not very small in today's terms -- it's larger than the PCIe on most PCs!
  • "Next, to support the case where you want to use the GPU L2 cache simultaneously for both graphics processing and asynchronous compute, we have added a bit in the tags of the cache lines, we call it the 'volatile' bit. You can then selectively mark all accesses by compute as 'volatile,' and when it's time for compute to read from system memory, it can invalidate, selectively, the lines it uses in the L2. When it comes time to write back the results, it can write back selectively the lines that it uses. This innovation allows compute to use the GPU L2 cache and perform the required operations without significantly impacting the graphics operations going on at the same time -- in other words, it radically reduces the overhead of running compute and graphics together on the GPU."
  • Thirdly, said Cerny, "The original AMD GCN architecture allowed for one source of graphics commands, and two sources of compute commands. For PS4, we've worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands -- the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform, you put commands in one of these 64 queues, and then there are multiple levels of arbitration in the hardware to determine what runs, how it runs, and when it runs, alongside the graphics that's in the system."
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This was inspired by SPURS the CELL software library using SPU as software cache and it is helping with cache trashing and gives huge performance boost for asynch compute workload.

http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2015/presentations/Vaisse_Alexis_Ubisoft Cloth Simulation.pdf

Here in this compute workload PS4 see higher gain than theorical power difference. ;) His mission is different than Kuturagi do some customisation on PC architecture without doing something making programer life difficult.

Let random forumer said than Mark cerny is incompetent is WTF...
 
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StrayDog

StrayDog

Avenger
Jul 14, 2018
2,614
TheTruthofKayle said:
why putting this word in my mouth?
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because you put words in cerny mouth in the same way

TheTruthofKayle said:
cerny saying that u need 8 tf to run games in 4k
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the correct quote is
「4Kでネイティブにレンダリングするなら、個人的な試算ですが、最低でも8TFLOPSは必要になるでしょう」
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Mark Cerny believes "To render in native 4K, but personal estimate, will require at least 8 teraflops"

https://wccftech.com/mark-cerny-8-tflops-native-4k/
https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/rt/1026717.html
 
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Screen Looker

Screen Looker

Member
Nov 17, 2018
1,963
TheTruthofKayle said:
honest question... from a purely hardware design point of view which product has Cerny signature? that I know PS Vita ... PS4 Pro and PS4 ..although the last two have largely won from a market point of view, none of these products can be considered revolutionary or cutting edge ..under any circumstances. I've been asking myself for a while but apart from the fact that he works for a company that has a huge media response to its users. The fame comes more from a software developer point than as a leading design hardware or have there been outside those playstation brand some revolutionary products ala "kuturagi"?

I'm really intrigued this halo of untouchability comes from a particular product or is simply a fan made thing
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What the hell is happening in this thread this morning? Lol
 
VX1

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe
I am curious about this Destination Playstation event later this month that Shawn Layden mentioned yesterday,i never heard of that thing before,it is something for retailers/journos/investors/devs maybe? BitsandBytes

"Now we have an event in February called Destination Playstation,where we bring all retailers and third-party partners to come hear the story for the year. They're making purchasing discussions in February."

Anyway,Shawn will speak tonight at DICE summit at 7pm CET euro time.
 
QuiteSomething

QuiteSomething

Banned
Feb 26, 2018
2,753
VX1 said:
I am curious about this Destination Playstation event later this month that Shawn Layden mentioned yesterday,i never heard of that thing before,it is something for retailers/journos/investors/devs maybe? BitsandBytes

"Now we have an event in February called Destination Playstation,where we bring all retailers and third-party partners to come hear the story for the year. They're making purchasing discussions in February."

Anyway,Shawn will speak tonight at DICE summit at 7pm CET euro time.
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Will it be livestreamed?
 
TheTruthofKayle

TheTruthofKayle

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
2,877
Ruslnis said:
That guy was banned from next gen thread before for console wars. Just ignore the shitposters
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StrayDog said:
because you put words in cerny mouth in the same way



the correct quote is

Mark Cerny believes "To render in native 4K, but personal estimate, will require at least 8 teraflops"

https://wccftech.com/mark-cerny-8-tflops-native-4k/
https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/rt/1026717.html
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So from his word he is still wrong ..as is who say that with just 6 u can go full 4k all the time
Let's forget about Cerny ..I get that is a complicated topic

Let's back on topic
 
Anthony Hopkins

Anthony Hopkins

Banned
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
[
Screen Looker said:
What the hell is happening in this thread this morning? Lol
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What... He's not wrong cerny made hardware are nothing that special.
I mean the PS4 is essentially PC parts with some slight tuning.
Is it good hardware? yes, but it is pretty safe and simple.
Which is not a bad thing.
Don't know why people are getting triggered by Somone saying Cernys hardwares are simple and nothing that unique.
 
TheTruthofKayle

TheTruthofKayle

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
2,877
Anthony Hopkins said:
[


What... He's not wrong cerny made hardware are nothing that special.
I mean the PS4 is essentially PC parts with some slight tuning.
Is it good hardware? yes, but it is pretty safe and simple.
Which is not a bad thing.
Don't know why people are getting triggered by Somone saying Cernys hardwares are simple and nothing that unique.
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Happening all the time ..I suppose is because of my English and because it seem harsh most of the time
 
Heckler456

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
Anthony Hopkins said:
[


What... He's not wrong cerny made hardware are nothing that special.
I mean the PS4 is essentially PC parts with some slight tuning.
Is it good hardware? yes, but it is pretty safe and simple.
Which is not a bad thing.
Don't know why people are getting triggered by Somone saying Cernys hardwares are simple and nothing that unique.
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Hey, quick question. Do you have any expertise whatsoever to make anything in the neighborhood of a qualified judgement? Same goes out to the other guy.
 
Screen Looker

Screen Looker

Member
Nov 17, 2018
1,963
You know what guys? I'm just saying, what has Miyamoto-San ever really done.

Outside of Star Fox, Mario and Zelda I'm just trying to think of why anyone would take his word about anything.

/s
 
CosmicSea

CosmicSea

Alt account
Banned
Feb 5, 2019
502
User Banned (1 week): History of aggression and system wars over a series of threads
People shitting on genius Cerny lol this forum is ridiculous.
 
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