Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE

Overall maximum teraflops for next-gen launch consoles?

  • 8 teraflops

    Votes: 43 1.9%
  • 9 teraflops

    Votes: 56 2.4%
  • 12 teraflops

    Votes: 978 42.5%
  • 14 teraflops

    Votes: 525 22.8%
  • Team ALL THE WAY UP +14 teraflops

    Votes: 491 21.3%
  • 10 teraflops (because for some reason I put 9 instead of 10)

    Votes: 208 9.0%

  • Total voters
    2,301
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Joco

Member
Oct 29, 2017
554
Is there any talk of how Trump's tariffs will affect the upcoming console launches?

Assuming Trump and China don't agree to a deal anytime soon (I'd say it's looking like they won't).
 
Speculation:

Could there be an “Lockhart dev kit” and “Anaconda” dev kit? Lockhart dev kit is what is out at third parties and Anaconda dev kit is only at MS 1st party?

I am just speculating here of course because not entirely sure of the feasibility and/or the benefit of this, besides “hide” the power of “Anaconda” .
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
Having an SSD is really nice and I'll be satisfied with even a bog standard SSD in the consoles, however there's loads of rumours suggesting a custom SSD (for PS5 anyway) and I hope they didn't have to sacrifice noticeably better CPU/GPU hardware to include this tech so it fits within their pricing target. Having an SSD will improve the experience dramatically but I'd take a standard SSD + better GPU hardware over a custom super-fast SSD + inferior GPU hardware myself.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,380
Speculation:

Could there be an “Lockhart dev kit” and “Anaconda” dev kit? Lockhart dev kit is what is out at third parties and Anaconda dev kit is only at MS 1st party?

I am just speculating here of course because not entirely sure of the feasibility and/or the benefit of this, besides “hide” the power of “Anaconda” .
It's unlikely. Games being made for one specific variant of Xbox would look bad for MS, so all developers that need dev kits will need to test for both SKUs anyway. So there isn't really a point in making 2 separate units when you can just make one unit with different settings to emulate the lower spec hardware.

If anything is "hiding" the power of Anaconda, its just that they aren't using final silicon yet, or possibly that if these custom changes to the CPU are real, then developers will need time/training on the right way to optimise their titles to take advantage of it.
 
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Feb 10, 2018
16,807
Having an SSD is really nice and I'll be satisfied with even a bog standard SSD in the consoles, however there's loads of rumours suggesting a custom SSD (for PS5 anyway) and I hope they didn't have to sacrifice noticeably better CPU/GPU hardware to include this tech so it fits within their pricing target. Having an SSD will improve the experience dramatically but I'd take a standard SSD + better GPU hardware over a custom super-fast SSD + inferior GPU hardware myself.
Giving there nature of graphics, next gen will see a smaller leap, so I think they will focus on things which change the way games are played.
The more powerful CPU will enable more npcs, cars, ships etc and ssd will allow for faster travel and more grounded worlds.

Like, if uncharted 4 had avatar graphics, sure it would be impressive, but I don't think it would be that much of an improvement most ppl will think it would be.
 
It's unlikely. Games being made for one specific variant of Xbox would look bad for MS, so all developers that need dev kits will need to test for both SKUs anyway. So there isn't really a point in making 2 separate units when you can just make one unit with different settings to emulate the lower spec hardware.

If anything is "hiding" the power of Anaconda, its just that they aren't using final silicon yet, or possibly that if these custom changes to the CPU are real developers will need time/training on the right way to optimise their titles to take advantage of it.
This sounds reasonable, thanks for the reply!
 
OP
OP
Phoenix Splash
Mar 23, 2018
1,721
I am gonna laugh @MS if PS5 is more powerful than Ana. They better follow through on their word.

Hold up. You made me think. What if this was all, including Spencer's comments about Xbox targeting the "performance leader", a plot and provocation by Microsoft to pushing Sony to price the PS5 at 499 while MS put Lockhart at 299 and Anaconda at 399. IS THIS THE 4K 60FPS CHESS CLOUD VR TACTICS AT REDMOND?

...yeah, I don't know how that would even work. I still believe it will be Lockhart < PS5 < Anaconda.

Any leaks the past days?
Not that I saw. Next legit info regarding next-gen hardware is expected at Computex because Zen 2 from AMD. If not, the expectation will be at E3.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,626
Arhh
So adoredTv was correct about AMD keeping vega 7 as there "flagship part"
And Navi being like the mid range polaris line.
If this is true, I think it rules out next gen performance like the vega 7.
It’s possible they lead with low CU Navi incarnations and then lean into higher CU counts over time as yield and wafer cost improves. By 2020 we may well have enthusiast Navi that beats Vega VII.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
8,444
It’s possible they lead with low CU Navi incarnations and then lean into higher CU counts over time as yield and wafer cost improves. By 2020 we may well have enthusiast Navi that beats Vega VII.
those were the rumors iirc. starting navi line with navi 12, and release navi 10 and navi 20 later on.
 

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,656
Germany
Hold up. You made me think. What if this was all, including Spencer's comments about Xbox targeting the "performance leader", a plot and provocation by Microsoft to pushing Sony to price the PS5 at 499 while MS put Lockhart at 299 and Anaconda at 399. IS THIS THE 4K 60FPS CHESS CLOUD VR TACTICS AT REDMOND?
This makes up for a good conspiracy theory!
 
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Nov 12, 2017
2,877
Hold up. You made me think. What if this was all, including Spencer's comments about Xbox targeting the "performance leader", a plot and provocation by Microsoft to pushing Sony to price the PS5 at 499 while MS put Lockhart at 299 and Anaconda at 399. IS THIS THE 4K 60FPS CHESS CLOUD VR TACTICS AT REDMOND?

...yeah, I don't know how that would even work. I still believe it will be Lockhart < PS5 < Anaconda.



Not that I saw. Next legit info regarding next-gen hardware is expected at Computex because Zen 2 from AMD. If not, the expectation will be at E3.
I'm calling this from weeks ...all the talk from Phil Spencer is/was trying to pull Sony in the TF war.....if they follow ...then they will go 499 leaving the biggest part of the market to Lockhart ........but I don't think Sony is this naive to follow ..they will stick smartly to 399
 

BMO=GOAT

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,859
So what's the probability that with a ps4 pro refresh sony kinda has an answer for lockhart while ps5 focuses on anaconda?
 
Feb 10, 2018
16,807
I hope they are the same price and within 5% of each other power wise.
And digital foundry show identical performance 99% of the time.
I suppose then fans will just argue about the graphics of exclusives lol.
Unfortunately Console wars are inevitable.
 
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Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,565
I hope they are the same price and within 5% of each other power wise.
And digital foundry show identical performance 99% of the time.
I suppose then fans will just argue about exclusives lol.
Unfortunately Console wars are inevitable.
Uhhh.. if the machines are near identical, then the differentiator IS the exclusives.
 

Deleted member 18951

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,531
The thread, and posts like that, become easier to reconcile when you remember Reset is a US centric forum.

It's the only reason why posts outlining why Xbox might dominate next gen or those painting the market leader as underdogs aren't laughed out of the room.
Who says Xbox is going to dominate next gen? Who is painting Playstation as the underdog? Honestly, who?

PS5 will outsell Xbox hardware WW easily, like it's not even a valid question.

Who will be the most powerful was I thought the point of this thread? Dont worry your NPD threads are safe, lol.
 

SeanMN

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,024
Yeah, I suppose anything is possible if people want to go there. Heck, maybe this is a clue that Microsoft is actually going with post Zen 2 and post Navi architectural stuff that isn't ready enough to put into the early dev kit. See, I can play this game too :)
Actually no. Having a devkit with Zen 1 isn't really something terrible in any sense. It's just an alpha devkit.

No one was even assuming from that 4chan post that Scarlett will be using Zen 1. I'm not even saying that I believe that 4chan post, just that a Zen 1, Vega 64 alpha devkit isn't really anything out of the ordinary.
Hell, Zen1/Vega is straight-up what I assumed both companies would be using in their early devkits from the start. Seemed quite obvious.
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Scarlett alpha devkits were using Zen 1/+ with nVidia GPUs (not saying they are, just speculating).

Xbox One / Durango dev kits were running Intel CPUs and nVidia GPUs (1, 2, 3) so it's not out of the question.

Machine Learning, variable rate shading, ray tracing - if these technologies are believed to be supported on the Scarlett consoles, and AMD's new gen GPUs aren't ready yet, then using something like an RTX 2070/2080 in alpha kits would perhaps make more sense than using Vega, since it has support for those features and Vega doesn't.

Probably clear based on the above speculation, but I also don't think Scarlett will be using a Vega derivative as the GPU - either Navi or AMD's next gen. I don't think Vega (even a modified one) makes sense.

We know final hardware will be AMD based, and we know that Danta is the name of the Anaconda dev kit, but we don't know what's inside Danta.
 
Feb 10, 2018
16,807
Thanks for reply! Seems Sony will have to decide which is more important for them then.
Sony have said they believe in a big traditional leap.
PS4's will be treated like the PS3 was.
I think they will go $399 to be competitive to both ms sku's. I don't think they will want to leave such a big gap price between PS5 + lockhart. It just does not make sense from a business point of view.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,688
It would blow away the XB1X. The SSD and CPU alone would be a generation ahead, allowing for vastly superior performance as well as the ability to run next gen games that the 1X won't be able to do.
Yeah, I'm just not putting it as something definite until we get more info.

To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Scarlett alpha devkits were using Zen 1/+ with nVidia GPUs (not saying they are, just speculating).

Xbox One / Durango dev kits were running Intel CPUs and nVidia GPUs (1, 2, 3) so it's not out of the question.

Machine Learning, variable rate shading, ray tracing - if these technologies are believed to be supported on the Scarlett consoles, and AMD's new gen GPUs aren't ready yet, then using something like an RTX 2070/2080 in alpha kits would perhaps make more sense than using Vega, since it has support for those features and Vega doesn't.

Probably clear based on the above speculation, but I also don't think Scarlett will be using a Vega derivative as the GPU - either Navi or AMD's next gen. I don't think Vega (even a modified one) makes sense.

We know final hardware will be AMD based, and we know that Danta is the name of the Anaconda dev kit, but we don't know what's inside Danta.
Lol, it won't be the first time they do it but I think a Vega 64 would suffice.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
921
Seattle
Who says Xbox is going to dominate next gen? Who is painting Playstation as the underdog? Honestly, who?
29.1% of the people who voted in this poll thread along with whoever wrote the article, one would assume:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/engadget-xbox-is-poised-to-dominate-the-next-console-generation.88445/

We were swimming in this nonsense back around the end of last year when the reality is we still don’t have any real evidence one way or another.
 

Deleted member 18951

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,531
29.1% of the people who voted in this poll thread along with whoever wrote the article, one would assume:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/engadget-xbox-is-poised-to-dominate-the-next-console-generation.88445/

We were swimming in this nonsense back around the end of last year when the reality is we still don’t have any real evidence one way or another.
Fucking hell, 70% of people think the opposite and right now Xbox is riding that goodwill train hard with BC and Game Pass which might cloud some peoples judgement and of course uberfans would go with Xbox anyway.

PS5 will sell more hardware than Xbox - fact. Who releases the more powerful is what is open to debate.
 

Primethius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,547
Who says Xbox is going to dominate next gen? Who is painting Playstation as the underdog? Honestly, who?

PS5 will outsell Xbox hardware WW easily, like it's not even a valid question.

Who will be the most powerful was I thought the point of this thread? Dont worry your NPD threads are safe, lol.
Lol? I barely visit NPD threads.

Are you seriously asking me for proof of this when there's over two next gen threads worth of posts (plus the usual fanboy bickering from all sides)? There's been posts like that. There's been worse posts then that. There's been equally bad posts from PS fanboys.

I can certainly dredge them up for you, I'd just hate to waste my time for looking up posts to prove... what? That fanboyism is a thing on the Reset from PS and Xbox fans?
 
Feb 10, 2018
16,807
The only way big performance differences are possible at the same BOM is if one goes more custom.
And that risks making development harder for 3rd parties.
So if Sony is within 10% of anaconda, it isn't that MS will look foolish, it will be a case where Sony has gone with $499 and sacrificed some value in order to play the power game.

If the 1X was not $499 and ms were not doing 2 sku's I don't think $499 would be as accepted.
 
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Deleted member 18951

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,531
Lol? I barely visit NPD threads.

Are you seriously asking me for proof of this when there's over two next gen threads worth of posts (plus the usual fanboy bickering from all sides)? There's been posts like that. There's been worse posts then that. There's been equally bad posts from PS fanboys.

I can certainly dredge them up for you, I'd just hate to waste my time for looking up posts to prove... what? That fanboyism is a thing on the Reset from PS and Xbox fans?
Well that's my point, when did we start to validate the opinion of extreme fanboys on this site? We never have or at least I hope we aren't. These are the minority opinions on here though right? Like my favourite football blog always ends on: ignore the nonsense, the irrelevant and the noise :)
 

Wandu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,865
Having an SSD is really nice and I'll be satisfied with even a bog standard SSD in the consoles, however there's loads of rumours suggesting a custom SSD (for PS5 anyway) and I hope they didn't have to sacrifice noticeably better CPU/GPU hardware to include this tech so it fits within their pricing target. Having an SSD will improve the experience dramatically but I'd take a standard SSD + better GPU hardware over a custom super-fast SSD + inferior GPU hardware myself.
For the PS5, what exactly can be sacrificed in the CPU/GPU when you know it is using 3rd gen 7nm Zen 2 and Navi (Sony customized) to include a custom SSD that is faster than what is currently on the market?

For your example, using a bog standard SSD is like trying to say you would prefer a SATA3 SSD + better GPU than a NVMe m.2 SSD + inferior GPU. I do not agree with that as there is the NVMe SSD would provide a greatly improved performance and speed over the SATA3 SSD. From the Wired article, Cerny was a little specific about raw speeds and I/O, so it doesn't seem like it will be a slouch of a SSD.

We would already be getting a vastly improved console on the CPU/GPU alone, so what can a better CPU/GPU with an inferior storage solution (speed/performance-wise) at the same price point?
 

Primethius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,547
Well that's my point, when did we start to validate the opinion of extreme fanboys on this site? We never have or at least I hope we aren't. These are the minority opinions on here though right? Like my favourite football blog always ends on: ignore the nonsense, the irrelevant and the noise :)
I mean, we don't validate those posts. My initial post was merely pointing out one aspect of the US centricness of the site.
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
For the PS5, what exactly can be sacrificed in the CPU/GPU when you know it is using 3rd gen 7nm Zen 2 and Navi (Sony customized) to include a custom SSD that is faster than what is currently on the market?

For your example, using a bog standard SSD is like trying to say you would prefer a SATA3 SSD + better GPU than a NVMe m.2 SSD + inferior GPU. I do not agree with that as there is the NVMe SSD would provide a greatly improved performance and speed over the SATA3 SSD. From the Wired article, Cerny was a little specific about raw speeds and I/O, so it doesn't seem like it will be a slouch of a SSD.

We would already be getting a vastly improved console on the CPU/GPU alone, so what can a better CPU/GPU with an inferior storage solution (speed/performance-wise) at the same price point?
I have a SATA SSD in my PC right now and even though my hardware is a bit outdated (including a 6 year old processor), it's still rapid as hell when loading into games that are stored on the SSD. Anything faster than this I would say is pointless if actual graphical performance is hindered due to the hardware being limited because of the trade-off cost of having that tech.
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
931
Can we please keep these console warz type posts to a minimum here?
That wasn't a console wars post. It was commenting on the general theme in the thread, I didn't even post an opinion on which would be more powerful - we don't know. Just slightly funny that people are so quick to lap up MS PR when they hint their console is better (which of course they would), and also dismiss anyone who suggests any other possibility.

At the moment we don't have enough concrete, and non-biased, info to conclude much. The idea that Sony are incompetent technically when compared to MS is again quite funny. More of what MS would want people to believe, rather than necessarily the truth.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,182
Europe
A little bit off topic but Ubisoft announced today that they are going to “ramp up our capabilities for the upcoming generation of consoles”, “enter into new gaming genres, segments, & business models, create new IPs & new experiences”, and finally “capture the streaming & cloud gaming opportunities

Ubi will be all over Stadia i guess.

 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
5,248
That wasn't a console wars post. It was commenting on the general theme in the thread, I didn't even post an opinion on which would be more powerful - we don't know. Just slightly funny that people are so quick to lap up MS PR when they hint their console is better (which of course they would), and also dismiss anyone who suggests any other possibility.

At the moment we don't have enough concrete, and non-biased, info to conclude much. The idea that Sony are incompetent technically when compared to MS is again quite funny. More of what MS would want people to believe, rather than necessarily the truth.
I don't think anyone has stated that, seems to be the opposite actually.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,380
Guaranteed high speed reads is going to be a game changer.

Imagine if a game could stream data in so fast that you don't even realise it.
Imagine if you have games where buildings are to scale and you can walk into almost any building and some kind of procedural generation generates a real sized interior before you get there and you don't even realise.
Imagine if levels or worlds could freely transform their states and much larger scale in real time on some Inception-type shit. Or immediate scene changes like in Dead Space hallucinations / Silent Hill etc.
Imagine if NPCs/vehicles/animals could be so detailed and varied that you would never realise they were based on the same base models and never saw duplicates.
Imagine you can fast travel, reload, respawn etc at the same speed it takes you to pass the game and open a menu.
Imagine if you have a racing game where you could "chain" together collections of levels that switch between each other in a kind of playlist in real time.
Imagine being able to do all of that while using a whole bunch of 4K assets.


Imagine if it was safe for a dev to do all of that and a bunch of other things none of us could even think of yet, because they can guarantee that the reads a more than enough to handle it.


There's huge potential if high read speeds become the base standard. From efficiencies in RAM because you don't need to store as much at one time, to "no loading times", to almost anything limited by dev imagination.
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
There's huge potential if high read speeds become the base standard. From efficiencies in RAM because you don't need to store as much at one time, to "no loading times", to almost anything limited by dev imagination.
Both companies are using NVMe SSD according to pretty much every rumour in existence right now. That should be it though, no more money wasted on custom tech which can limit the capabilities of the GPU e.g. losing 20% of performance compared to the competition because you had to opt for a lower CU count due to the trade-off cost off having this other tech. Honestly if either company does that I will say they're stupid. I wouldn't take inferior resolution or performance for reducing 5 seconds loading time to 1 second.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,688
Both companies are using NVMe SSD according to pretty much every rumour in existence right now. That should be it though, no more money wasted on custom tech which can limit the capabilities of the GPU e.g. losing 20% of performance compared to the competition because you had to opt for a lower CU count due to the trade-off cost off having this other tech. Honestly if either company does that I will say they're stupid. I wouldn't take inferior resolution or performance for reducing 5 seconds loading time to 1 second.
You wouldn't lose up to 20% of performance, and the game development capabilities opens up, as some has described.
 
Jan 21, 2019
1,203
Guaranteed high speed reads is going to be a game changer.

Imagine if a game could stream data in so fast that you don't even realise it.
Imagine if you have games where buildings are to scale and you can walk into almost any building and some kind of procedural generation generates a real sized interior before you get there and you don't even realise.
Imagine if levels or worlds could freely transform their states and much larger scale in real time on some Inception-type shit. Or immediate scene changes like in Dead Space hallucinations / Silent Hill etc.
Imagine if NPCs/vehicles/animals could be so detailed and varied that you would never realise they were based on the same base models and never saw duplicates.
Imagine you can fast travel, reload, respawn etc at the same speed it takes you to pass the game and open a menu.
Imagine if you have a racing game where you could "chain" together collections of levels that switch between each other in a kind of playlist in real time.
Imagine being able to do all of that while using a whole bunch of 4K assets.


Imagine if it was safe for a dev to do all of that and a bunch of other things none of us could even think of yet, because they can guarantee that the reads a more than enough to handle it.


There's huge potential if high read speeds become the base standard. From efficiencies in RAM because you don't need to store as much at one time, to "no loading times", to almost anything limited by dev imagination.
Imagine fighting games, where upon choosing characters, they just jump into the stage that you chose beforehand. No loading, the just enter from each side.

Imagine fast travel being diagetic, so that you get to fast travel yourself by turning into a bird or something and dashing over the overworked final fantasy 6 style.

No more pushing carts or searching for ladders, more more squeezing through tight gaps, no more cutscenes, no more ultra slow opening of doors. All of these are tricks so that the game loads the next area as you approach it. This in turn means gigantic draw distances, opener world and levels, crazy amount or detail density.

The SSD benefits every aspect of game design.
 

Turkey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17
When folks ask "Why?" instead of "Why not?" when it comes implementing additional features that improve quality of life features for consumers, it is a fair assessment.

With the 360, it was proprietary because that aspect baked into the design of the console, unlike Xbox one where swapping out internal HDD is possible without adversely affecting the console (otherwise that possibility would not have been possible in the first place). So, voiding warranty (when PS3 and 4 has been allowing it from day 1) is something that ought not to be repeated with their next console, unless, swapping the storage is either not made possible due to how the system is set up or can potentially damage the system.
It will be down to cost, it is an expensive addition to the design. The console needs a more complex shell and additional connectors. It also needs nand flash to store a replacement OS.

The PS4 accepts a new drive and images it itself from what I read, the Xbox would need to do the same and copy over the many gigs that is the OS. The One S swap I believe needs the data from the OS drive copying over as well as the partition setup so the only similarly is the Xbox one does not actively lock hard drives as heavily as the 360, the functionality to support a drive swap is not there at this time.
 
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