Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE

Overall maximum teraflops for next-gen launch consoles?

  • 8 teraflops

    Votes: 43 1.9%
  • 9 teraflops

    Votes: 56 2.4%
  • 12 teraflops

    Votes: 978 42.5%
  • 14 teraflops

    Votes: 525 22.8%
  • Team ALL THE WAY UP +14 teraflops

    Votes: 491 21.3%
  • 10 teraflops (because for some reason I put 9 instead of 10)

    Votes: 208 9.0%

  • Total voters
    2,301
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tapedeck

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,914
Only 26 days till E3 ladies and gents...I wonder how many times the teraflops cycle will go all the way around and start over till then haha.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,862
The TFlop obsession is so boring. I'm looking forward to other aspects of these systems being benchmarked.
 

BradGrenz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,225

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,867
LOL, leave for a while and come back to talk about how the PC target may hold back Xbox next gen games compared to Sony. I don't think many people understand the reality that developers target high to start and tailor down as necessary for other platforms, which is what the Xbox One X dev kit and no doubt the next gen Scarlett dev kit will enable too. Gears of War 4 and the Forza games are amazing on PC and certainly didn't impact the Xbox versions in any negative manner.
 

Bowl0l

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,675
With the TF number being so influencial, I can see one or both of them pulling out tricks, theoretical numbers, and what ever under the sun can get them to a higher number without technically lying. Going to be interesting to say the least.
Prediction: Sony is going to show a box that can play a new 1st party title while comparing to the original PS4 performance in order to see the giant leap in hardware progress. When asked if this confirms full PS4 b/c and cross-buy, the Sony rep becomes silent and offer a tidbit that not all PS4 games will be playable day one citing licensing issues. Fast forward to the day of PS5 successor announcement and nothing but loot box games get a PS4 b/c support for the PS5.
 
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'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
So what level of performance is everyone expecting from the new consoles? Considering the RX 3080 XT is supposedly ~2070 performance with 56 CU and at a cost of $330, naturally the expectations for the consoles will be lower, right?

To be honest that completely changes up my prediction. It seems 56 CU will be out of the consoles' reach unless Sony and MS are getting very good deals on these chips.

Does anyone know how much each individual component will cost after taking in bulk purchases into account for a 7nm console with specs along the lines of

Zen 2 - 8 cores/16 threads @ 3.3GHz
Motherboard
RAM modules - 24GB GDDR6
Storage - 1 TB NVMe (or custom NVMe)
GPU - 56 CU @ 1.8 GHz
Heatsink
Disk drive - 4k Blu Ray (with support for 128GB quad layer BD-XL disks)
Accessories - controllers + headphones
Console chassis

If we can estimate this and get a ball park figure it would be way easier to predict what specification of GPU will be used considering it will be the most expensive component. If this comes out to, let's say, $800 then we can safely say its unreasonable. If it comes out at $600 it would be more reasonable if a $100 loss is taken per unit.

Gives something to discuss in this current rumour drought lol.
 

Lagspike_exe

Member
Dec 15, 2017
1,156
So what level of performance is everyone expecting from the new consoles? Considering the RX 3080 XT is supposedly ~2070 performance with 56 CU and at a cost of $330, naturally the expectations for the consoles will be lower, right?

To be honest that completely changes up my prediction. It seems 56 CU will be out of the consoles' reach unless Sony and MS are getting very good deals on these chips.

Does anyone know how much each individual component will cost after taking in bulk purchases into account for a 7nm console with specs along the lines of

Zen 2 - 8 cores/16 threads @ 3.3GHz
Motherboard
RAM modules - 24GB GDDR6
Storage - 1 TB NVMe (or custom NVMe)
GPU - 56 CU @ 1.8 GHz
Heatsink
Disk drive - 4k Blu Ray (with support for 128GB quad layer BD-XL disks)
Accessories - controllers + headphones
Console chassis

If we can estimate this and get a ball park figure it would be way easier to predict what specification of GPU will be used considering it will be the most expensive component. If this comes out to, let's say, $800 then we can safely say its unreasonable. If it comes out at $600 it would be more reasonable if a $100 loss is taken per unit.

Gives something to discuss in this current rumour drought lol.
56 CU is ease on 7nm. 1.8GHz... that's the tough one.
I think 64CU with 4CU disabled for yield is the best bet by far. The clock speed is the question mark.
For reference, PS4 Pro had 36CU (+4 disabled) and XBX had 40CU (+4 disabled). 7nm allows for much higher densities than that.
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
3,352
if there's 150 or more Euro difference ..it will absolutely affect sales ..of both higher priced sku Anaconda and Ps5
Remember that those console will play mostly the same games and with mostly I mean. 90+ %
Why it shouldn't?
Affect it to what degree though? That's like saying an Xbox One S affects PS4 Pro sales because it's cheaper. Price matters yes, but there are many other factors as to why people decide to buy one console over another. Besides the "mostly the same games" argument didn't help Xbox this gen.
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
56 CU is ease on 7nm. 1.8GHz... that's the tough one.
I think 64CU with 4CU disabled for yield is the best bet by far. The clock speed is the question mark.
For reference, PS4 Pro had 36CU (+4 disabled) and XBX had 40CU (+4 disabled). 7nm allows for much higher densities than that.
What about pricing though? Its obviously possible for the console to have these specifications but with the news the 7nm RX 3080 XT is going to be over $300 that changes everything. I know you can't easily predict how much Sony/MS pay per SoC/APU based on the equivalent PC components but I would think that AMD pricing this card at $330, they wouldn't take such a massive hit of like $100-150 per GPU so the consoles can achieve that $500 price point after all other components have been considered. The PS4 PRO GPU which was basically an RX 480 underclocked was sub $200 by the time the PRO came out and that console was still $400. The XB1X had 4 more CU, 4GB more VRAM and a beefier cooling system and that hiked the price up by $100 to $500. Unless I'm reading into it all wrong I can't see a card which is $330 at full clocks on PC being utilized in a $500 console considering all other factors and past consoles.
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,877
Affect it to what degree though? That's like saying an Xbox One S affects PS4 Pro sales because it's cheaper. Price matters yes, but there are many other factors as to why people decide to buy one console over another. Besides the "mostly the same games" argument didn't help Xbox this gen.
Let's say in this way ...if the launch of the new xbox will not be the disaster as it was the Xbox one launch... and so the console will not have a "bad reputation" attached on it until the last two years of his life (the reputation started to change with the launch of the X) it will affect sales ....and Anaconda will have what they called in the leaked slide 5h3 "Halo effect" on the weaker console .....if they fail the launch will be all over again as you said a situation like S and Pro .....but IMHO they will be very very careful to tell people everything they wanna hear this time
 
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TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
3,352
Let's say in this way ...if the launch of the new xbox will not be the disaster as it was the Xbox one launch... and so the console will not have a "bad reputation" attached on it until the last two years of his life (the reputation started to change with the launch of the X) it will affect sales ....and Anaconda will have what they called in the leaked slide 5h3 "Halo effect" on the weaker console .....if they fail the launch will be as you said a situation like S and Pro .....but IMHO they will be very very careful to tell people everything they wanna hear this time
Well there's always a new group of people entering gaming for the first time, so maybe it would matter more to those people. However I think if you only owned an Xbox this gen or only owned a PS4, then you're probably going to stick with their successors. You probably wouldn't jump ship and leave your library behind to save $100-200, especially since now you won't need to keep your old consoles. You can trade/sell it towards the new system.
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
No, it'll continue to be the OG/360 BC that we got for the Xbox One with a possible boost even further beyond what the X got.
Are you certain of this? Why did that Klobrille image showing the multiple SKU's have a section on backwards compatible? I had always assumed it was going to say full OG and 360 back compat. If it was no different why was it mentioned?
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,334
Are you certain of this? Why did that Klobrille image showing the multiple SKU's have a section on backwards compatible? I had always assumed it was going to say full OG and 360 back compat. If it was no different why was it mentioned?
Every game that is on Xbox One BC is repackaged to run on x86, it allows the game to run in the wrapper essentially as a native Xbox One game. The Scarlett consoles will be BC with Xbox One and every BC title on Xbox One.

Since games have to run off hard drives, it forces all those games to be digital downloads which in turn requires reupping licenses. There are games that won't ever come to BC simply due to licensing roadblocks.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,565
Pack it up guys and gals, there's no use in speculating anymore... Pachter thinks the PS5 will come in at $300!


:D

EDIT.
I think Pachter just gave us a tagline for the next gen... "Asses will be lost!"
 
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vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,565
PS5 will be at least $299. Will have at least 5 teraflops of power and at least 12gb of ram. The CPU will be at least 50% faster than the jaguars.
Well shit, I thought they were just gonna scratch the 4 off of the PS4's and scribble in a 5 with a Sharpie. I like your plan a lot better! ;)

ok, speculate all you want, but it absolutely wont beat a 499 xbox.... right?
Nah son, Sony'll take a $400 loss on each console and come in at 42.9% faster than Anaconda
 

PetohKing

Alt account
Banned
Apr 16, 2019
82
Can
Pack it up guys and gals, there's no use in speculating anymore... Pachter thinks the PS5 will come in at $300!


:D

EDIT.
I think Pachter just gave us a tagline for the next gen... "Asses will be lost!"
Back in 2013 we saw a lot of panic about how mobile was going to kill consoles...

Amazon, Google and Apple are big, but you cannot underestimate the brand power of PlayStation.
 

inpHilltr8r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,545
It would be really interested to see if any of this supposed RT hardware gets applied to things other than obvious applications like graphics / audio. Hypothetically then whatever general compute RT support both consoles have could be functional rather than visual, while dedicated hardware RT could provide support for visuals / audio as well?
The expensive operation in ray tracing is a line test, which is also a basic primitive of collision detection. Almost anything you do to speed up ray tracing, also speeds up spatial queries for other systems, like sound, AI, physics, particle systems, cloth, etc. (which, IMHO is also where that power would be better spent, rather than slightly improving lighting)
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,567
United Kingdom
No, BC not only depends on code but also on licenses for used music and other licensed parts used in a game. Even the game can be limited to a platform and thus the contract has to be renewed under a new license.
That's not really true for hw level BC. You're thinking about rereleases of legacy games on new hardware and new distribution playforms.

BC of a pure ROM or legacy game disc, where the code has not been changed at all to make it work and the hardware handles all the emulation, requires no re-upping of licences. That's why its the most ideal form of BC for providing access to the largest legacy content library.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
8,444
That's not really true for hw level BC. You're thinking about rereleases of legacy games on new hardware and new distribution playforms.

BC of a pure ROM or legacy game disc, where the code has not been changed at all to make it work and the hardware handles all the emulation, requires no re-upping of licences. That's why its the most ideal form of BC for providing access to the largest legacy content library.
So if the emulator forces higher resolution from the game but not directly changes the game code, would that still bypass the licenses?
 

Rukumouru

Member
Nov 12, 2017
1,516
So if the emulator forces higher resolution from the game but not directly changes the game code, would that still bypass the licenses?
The original code is still the same and only the interpretation is being changed, so no relicensing required.

Now, if you want to publish an old game online again, that's another story even if the code is unchanged.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,567
United Kingdom
So if the emulator forces higher resolution from the game but not directly changes the game code, would that still bypass the licenses?
Sure. The console can output the game in 540p on a CRT TV or 720p or 1080p.

The licence doesn't impact the rendering resolution or any of the technical aspects of the game.

The licence deals more with the control of that instance or copy of software and how its sold.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,688
How are they gonna know who did it when dev kits are out for all big players?
I don't know, but I'm sure no one would want to risk their livelihood over it.

In the end you have to be anonymous, leaking something top secret that can get you blacklisted from the industry. Is that really a risk someone wants to take.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
7,659
New Redit Leak

PS5 Details and Launch
  • $449/€449/£399.
  • ~12-13TF.
  • 24GB RAM.
  • 2TB storage (SSD + custom).
  • BC with all previous Playstations.
  • Minor changes to DS5, also has IR camera.
  • Launches worldwide September 2020.
  • PSVR2 coming later.

  • Big first party year 1 games are Gran Turismo and Horizon 2. GT will launch with the console. There's other titles for year 1, but these are the two "big" ones at the reveal event.
  • Japan Studio will be at launch with a new IP, will also be shown off at event, but they have begun work on a AAA title too.
  • San Diego is the only other first party studio planned to appear at the event.

  • No plans for any upcoming PS4 first party titles to be cross gen at release.
  • All of Ghost, TLOU2, and Death Stranding are planned to release by mid-2020 as PS4 games.
  • TLOU2 late 2019, Ghost early 2020, and Death Stranding after that, barring any delays.
  • No PS5 versions are decided at the moment. Focus is on delivering the PS4 versions. Discussions about how to proceed with hypothetical PS5 versions - if you launch a significantly upgraded PS5 game for retail/digital in year 1, then letting PS4 owners pay a small upgrade fee since the PS4 disc is usable and playable on PS5 anyway seems to be favored route. Alternatively, you just play the normal PS4 disc on the PS5.

  • Square Enix will be at reveal event with Luminous Production new IP (RPG) and Final Fantasy 16.
  • FF16 was originally planned as a current gen title but due to the screw up with FF7 Remake which delayed it from the planned release of 2018, it was moved to next gen.
  • FF7 Remake is not a PS5 release. Current gen only and no plans for a PS5 version right now.
  • LP is also making a FF15 PS5 Edition for launch.
  • DQXI with added content will be on PS5.
  • Capcom, Warner Bros, and Rockstar (RDR2 next gen) will be at the reveal event.

Those are the only things confirmed for now as planning is underway.
 

unapersson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
287
I'm just not
So if the emulator forces higher resolution from the game but not directly changes the game code, would that still bypass the licenses?
Yes, but BC isn't done like that anyone. It's now a route to provide digitally repackaged games. So you can either grab a copy using the original disk as a key, or more likely, buy it from a digital storefront.

I can't think of anyone doing it in the traditional way now, but hopefully next gen will bring it back, at least for this generation's games.
 

cyrribrae

Member
Jan 21, 2019
1,010
That's not really true for hw level BC. You're thinking about rereleases of legacy games on new hardware and new distribution playforms.

BC of a pure ROM or legacy game disc, where the code has not been changed at all to make it work and the hardware handles all the emulation, requires no re-upping of licences. That's why its the most ideal form of BC for providing access to the largest legacy content library.
I mean.. maybe. But Xbox BC indeed does not touch the code at all. And yet, Xbox has not chosen to try to release all games, even though we know that there are some games that they've tested and verified but not released. It's possible MS is just trying to keep up relationships or is playing it safe legally, but I think it's likely that it simply isn't that easy. I'm sure no one making deals for 360 were planning ahead to software emulation next gen. There's no way they would have possibly expected that. As a result, I believe that technically MS has to republish all of those games onto the Xbox One themselves to some degree, meaning that licensing must be updated to reflect that.

We'll see whether or not all Xbox ONE games are automatically BC next gen.

Can

Back in 2013 we saw a lot of panic about how mobile was going to kill consoles...

Amazon, Google and Apple are big, but you cannot underestimate the brand power of PlayStation.
What's your point? That streaming isn't the future? Or that consoles will survive regardless?

I mean, yea, totally. People were so down on consoles in 2013, even among the console manufacturers and game publishers, and that didn't keep consoles down. But, it's not just PlayStation, Nintendo is at historic highs and even Xbox is doing far better than anyone would have expected in 2012. We won't see consoles going away, but that doesn't mean that the business/delivery models that have sustained them are immune to change or too big to fail. Arcades are proof enough. It may be hard to imagine, but clearly the point is that lots of "hard to imagine" things happen all the time.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
8,444
New Redit Leak

PS5 Details and Launch
  • $449/€449/£399.
  • ~12-13TF.
  • 24GB RAM.
  • 2TB storage (SSD + custom).
  • BC with all previous Playstations.
  • Minor changes to DS5, also has IR camera.
  • Launches worldwide September 2020.
  • PSVR2 coming later.

  • Big first party year 1 games are Gran Turismo and Horizon 2. GT will launch with the console. There's other titles for year 1, but these are the two "big" ones at the reveal event.
  • Japan Studio will be at launch with a new IP, will also be shown off at event, but they have begun work on a AAA title too.
  • San Diego is the only other first party studio planned to appear at the event.

  • No plans for any upcoming PS4 first party titles to be cross gen at release.
  • All of Ghost, TLOU2, and Death Stranding are planned to release by mid-2020 as PS4 games.
  • TLOU2 late 2019, Ghost early 2020, and Death Stranding after that, barring any delays.
  • No PS5 versions are decided at the moment. Focus is on delivering the PS4 versions. Discussions about how to proceed with hypothetical PS5 versions - if you launch a significantly upgraded PS5 game for retail/digital in year 1, then letting PS4 owners pay a small upgrade fee since the PS4 disc is usable and playable on PS5 anyway seems to be favored route. Alternatively, you just play the normal PS4 disc on the PS5.

  • Square Enix will be at reveal event with Luminous Production new IP (RPG) and Final Fantasy 16.
  • FF16 was originally planned as a current gen title but due to the screw up with FF7 Remake which delayed it from the planned release of 2018, it was moved to next gen.
  • FF7 Remake is not a PS5 release. Current gen only and no plans for a PS5 version right now.
  • LP is also making a FF15 PS5 Edition for launch.
  • DQXI with added content will be on PS5.
  • Capcom, Warner Bros, and Rockstar (RDR2 next gen) will be at the reveal event.

Those are the only things confirmed for now as planning is underway.
These are a lot of words while trying to say nothing and repeat other stuff as well (FP launch windows is almost copied from jasons comment on kotaku for example.)
 

PetohKing

Alt account
Banned
Apr 16, 2019
82
I mean.. maybe. But Xbox BC indeed does not touch the code at all. And yet, Xbox has not chosen to try to release all games, even though we know that there are some games that they've tested and verified but not released. It's possible MS is just trying to keep up relationships or is playing it safe legally, but I think it's likely that it simply isn't that easy. I'm sure no one making deals for 360 were planning ahead to software emulation next gen. There's no way they would have possibly expected that. As a result, I believe that technically MS has to republish all of those games onto the Xbox One themselves to some degree, meaning that licensing must be updated to reflect that.

We'll see whether or not all Xbox ONE games are automatically BC next gen.


What's your point? That streaming isn't the future? Or that consoles will survive regardless?

I mean, yea, totally. People were so down on consoles in 2013, even among the console manufacturers and game publishers, and that didn't keep consoles down. But, it's not just PlayStation, Nintendo is at historic highs and even Xbox is doing far better than anyone would have expected in 2012. We won't see consoles going away, but that doesn't mean that the business/delivery models that have sustained them are immune to change or too big to fail. Arcades are proof enough. It may be hard to imagine, but clearly the point is that lots of "hard to imagine" things happen all the time.
The infrastructure for game steaming to become widespread still doesn't exist here in the US. It won't for quite a while. Consoles are here to stay.
 

cyrribrae

Member
Jan 21, 2019
1,010
Yea.. this leak seems a bit much. Especially since they have deep knowledge of what 1st and 3rd party studios are/are not involved + their detailed plans of support, but haven't even given a timeframe for when the reveal will be? Crazy if it's all true though.


The infrastructure for game steaming to become widespread still doesn't exist here in the US. It won't for quite a while. Consoles are here to stay.
Ok? I don't think anyone is saying they're going away. Except like Yves maybe. And even then, people are talking about next NEXT gen 7-10 years down the line. Consoles will persist. But that doesn't mean that consoles will look, work, and be used the same way they are right now forever. In fact, it's almost impossible that they would. Xbox Live fundamentally changed console gaming forever. Instantaneous worldwide digital distribution changed console gaming forever. You can't seriously tell me that you expect major changes to the industry to just stop now.

I know you're not. I'm just saying that saying "consoles will still be here" is an uninteresting and uncontested statement. No one is saying they're going away. Not PlayStation, not Xbox, not even Nintendo.
 
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