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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE

Overall maximum teraflops for next-gen launch consoles?

  • 8 teraflops

    Votes: 37 1.7%
  • 9 teraflops

    Votes: 51 2.4%
  • 12 teraflops

    Votes: 910 42.4%
  • 14 teraflops

    Votes: 502 23.4%
  • Team ALL THE WAY UP +14 teraflops

    Votes: 455 21.2%
  • 10 teraflops (because for some reason I put 9 instead of 10)

    Votes: 189 8.8%

  • Total voters
    2,144

modiz

The Fallen
Oct 8, 2018
2,979
one thing this leaker did right, which is something that you dont often see in these leaks, is giving a performance range rather than a specific numbers, because sony doesnt even know the exact number right now as it depends on prices, tdp etc. i dont expect them to have a specific performance number until... december.

anyway it is still 90% chance of fake because of the way it is written.
 

modiz

The Fallen
Oct 8, 2018
2,979
i dont think that "full BC" is as impossible as you think.
if sony gives up on giving trophies for every PS2 and PS1 free game and just emulates those two, and modify RPCS3 it should be possible.
 
Oct 30, 2017
4,640
i dont think that "full BC" is as impossible as you think.
if sony gives up on giving trophies for every PS2 and PS1 free game and just emulates those two, and modify RPCS3 it should be possible.
imagine how much money they would make selling all those PS1 and PS2 and PS3 again digitally
 

modiz

The Fallen
Oct 8, 2018
2,979
imagine how much money they would make selling all those PS1 and PS2 and PS3 again digitally
selling them all diigitally would have issues with licensing as was mentioned in the previous page.
its more likely that they will enable physical BC for those games and sony will slowly add them to the digital store after licensing stuff again.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,557
one thing this leaker did right, which is something that you dont often see in these leaks, is giving a performance range rather than a specific numbers, because sony doesnt even know the exact number right now as it depends on prices, tdp etc. i dont expect them to have a specific performance number until... december.

anyway it is still 90% chance of fake because of the way it is written.
I disagree. Devs with dev-kits should know the exact Tflops number of the machine they have on hands. But of course it won't necessarily be the performance of the retail units.

But that leak is obviously fake. BC will all previous Playstations ? LOL. They have no incentive doing that for free (except for PS4 BC because they want PS4 owners to enter into the PS5 ecosystem).

But free PS1, PS2 and PS3 BC ? They'll do when Xbox will outsell them worldwide...
 

modiz

The Fallen
Oct 8, 2018
2,979
I disagree. Devs with dev-kits should know the exact Tflops number of the machine they have on hands. But of course it won't necessarily be the performance of the retail units.

But that leak is obviously fake. BC will all previous Playstations ? LOL. They have no incentive doing that for free (except for PS4 BC because they want PS4 owners to enter into the PS5 ecosystem).

But free PS1, PS2 and PS3 BC ? They'll do when Xbox will outsell them worldwide...
why would they leak the devkit instead of the specsheet?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,706
Barcelona Spain
I don't believe any rumors with a SSD + HDD. It is a bad idea from a cost perspective. NAND flah cost is falling from a cliff. QLC SSD are currently available at 107 euros without IVA(company don't pay IVA in Europe), if you took the price for some of the logistic*, retailer profit and the packaging for a mass order the cost is probably 50 euros or dollars and SSD are cheaper in US.

https://www.pccomponentes.com/cruci...MI96qqvJGe4gIVSUHTCh0JhwEmEAQYASABEgLE7_D_BwE

For a 512Gb SSD the cost is half the price 25 dollars but you need to add the price of the HDD, HDD have incompressible cost because of mechanical element, an internal 2To HDD cost 70 dollars in retail probably 35 dollars of cost in a console with mass order. The cost of the two elements combined is more expensive than the SSD alone. If you take a 256 Gb SSD the cost is only 12,5 but it is only a few dollars(2,5) under the cost of a SSD 1tb Nvme alone.

The other problem is this incompressible 35 dollars cost for the HDD at the end of the gen. Price of 128 Gb SSD are very low much more than a HDD.

We can imagine a console at less than 199 dollars/euros using only a 1Tb SSD and probably less than 149 euros/dollars at the end of the generation(sure at 100% for a console without bluray).

https://www.pccomponentes.com/kings...MIyfC98MWf4gIVaijTCh05HQahEAQYAyABEgIskvD_BwE

The price is 17 euros without taxes, and without all the element I talked about before I doubt the cost is more than 75% of the final price or maybe 50% of the final price.

NAND flash are supposed to continue to drop a bit until end of the year.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ssd-prices-drop-2019-prediction,37982.html

* some part are for all the console not only the SSD
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
10,231
I don't believe that rumor (September 2020 launch....nah).

I very much so like the sound of that PS5 BC though! I'd say it is possible. It could be one of Sony's bomb drops if they did all they could to make it happen.
 
Jan 15, 2018
828
Eugh, if there's any trace of a mechanical HDD in the next-gen consoles, I will feel unclean. Ideally, I'd ditch the disc drive too and have the cooling fan as the only moving part.
 
Oct 28, 2017
16
Yeah it would be shitty to pay for rez and performance boosts. But if they went in and actually added a lot of stuff, 5 bucks wouldn't be bad for that.
in the ps4 launch window there was a similar thing were you could buy the ps3 version of assassins creed black flag and battlefield 4 and get the ps4 version for 10$. i thought it was a good deal at that time.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,706
Barcelona Spain
Eugh, if there's any trace of a mechanical HDD in the next-gen consoles, I will feel unclean. Ideally, I'd ditch the disc drive too and have the cooling fan as the only moving part.
HDD are the reason we never have console under 199 dollard/euros MSRP since the PS2. I think the more resonnable PS4 and Xbox One can reach a price under 199 dollars but bigger than 149 dollars without SSD we have no hope to reach 149 dollars or even better sub 149 dollars price.
 
Nov 2, 2017
10,905
Man full BC would be crazy, there are so many PS3 games that I’d like to play again.

If you were Sony do you announce that with the Wired article or wait for the full reveal?
 
Jan 15, 2018
828
HDD are the reason we never have console under 199 dollard/euros MSRP since the PS2. I think the more resonnable PS4 and Xbox One can reach a price under 199 dollars but bigger than 149 dollars without SSD we have no hope to reach 149 dollars or even better sub 149 dollars price.
I'm not sure consoles would ever get that low again but I quite fancy the idea of an Xbox Two / PS5 digital edition whereby the Blu-ray is removed and $50-$100 knocked off or bigger SSD included. Yes, ditch the Blu-ray and go for 2TB SSD is my preference.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,231
Man full BC would be crazy, there are so many PS3 games that I’d like to play again.

If you were Sony do you announce that with the Wired article or wait for the full reveal?
Wait for the full reveal.

Giving Wired the basic BC announcement added to the hype for the official reveal. Now Sony can benefit from getting into the specifics.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,706
Barcelona Spain
I'm not sure consoles would ever get that low again but I quite fancy the idea of an Xbox Two / PS5 digital edition whereby the Blu-ray is removed and $50-$100 knocked off or bigger SSD included. Yes, ditch the Blu-ray and go for 2TB SSD is my preference.
Or have a version staying at 1Tb and sold it at very low price. One day 1Tb SSD will cost the same price than 128 Gb SSD now.
 

modiz

The Fallen
Oct 8, 2018
2,979
Man full BC would be crazy, there are so many PS3 games that I’d like to play again.

If you were Sony do you announce that with the Wired article or wait for the full reveal?
PS3 BC specifically makes a lot of sense because sony will probably want to replace their psnow servers from ps3 hardware to new hardware.

And no, ps3 bc is something that you wait for maximum effect. Ps4 bc was only said to lower worries for fans.
Ps3 bc will be revealed in either the psmeeting or in the next e3.
 
Apr 4, 2019
60
HDD are the reason we never have console under 199 dollard/euros MSRP since the PS2. I think the more resonnable PS4 and Xbox One can reach a price under 199 dollars but bigger than 149 dollars without SSD we have no hope to reach 149 dollars or even better sub 149 dollars price.
Just to add to this, the overhead costs include the baseline set of components in powering or cooling the device, which hasn’t gotten anywhere near a PS2 slim ( apt comparison), meanwhile having to adjust for inflation.

The number of RAM chips is hard to get around as well; XO requires 16xDDR3-2133 chips, while PS4 cant really go below 8xGDDR5 chips for the consumer kit. PS2 may have had to deal with Rambus, but at the end of the day, it came down to two DRAM chips, which has further implications to the motherboard.

Die sizes are also still north of 200mm^2, so that’ll have an impact on chips per wafer even if we assumed a normalized wafer & fab cost.
 
Last edited:
Apr 24, 2019
18
Is Nvme more efficient power wise than HDD?
And since there is no spinning parts in SSD, does it create less heat?
If so then those savings can go toward gpu clocks.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,706
Barcelona Spain
Just to add to this, the overhead costs include the baseline set of components in powering or cooling the device, which hasn’t gotten anywhere near a PS2 slim ( apt comparison), meanwhile having to adjust for inflation.

The number of RAM chips is hard to get around as well; XO requires 16xDDR3-2133 chips, while PS4 cant really go below 8xGDDR5 chips for the consumer kit. PS2 may have had to deal with Rambus, but at the end of the day, it came down to two DRAM chips, which has further implications to the motherboard.
I don't think we will reach 99 euros even without a BR but maybe a little bit under 149 dollars, why not. But I am sure with SSD only we can probably reach sub 199 dollars MSRP and I am sure with a combo SSD + HDD we will not reach it.
 
Last edited:
If I were to believe this leak, I'd say it comes from Squeenix marketing team. Somebody doing the slides for the presentation or something. Detailed inner info, vague external info, no deep technical data. At the same time, taking in account the idea of masking the source, it can be somebody else with no connection at all, and all the FF info is guesswork and bullshit.

In other words - leak doesn't need to come from the developer, it can be effing janitor who happens to be interested in the subject and is able to listen to cooler talk.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,898
Malaysia
Leak is obviously fake, but on the BC thing...

Just because it it’s potentially full BC doesn’t mean it’ll work like how Xbox will do it.

I will not be surprised if only PS4 games are disc and default enabled , and PS1/2/3 games have caveats attached ( digital only, gotta rebuy games you already owned because of reasons, etc etc )

Supporting PS4 library by default is the bare minimum concession that I see Sony has to do to keep the library migration seamless. If they have BC for older platforms, I can easily see a spin where you gotta rebuy them as part of some Digital Classic Programme or whatever
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,429
Man full BC would be crazy, there are so many PS3 games that I’d like to play again.

If you were Sony do you announce that with the Wired article or wait for the full reveal?
It’s definitely a thing you save for full reveal. Let people believe that it won’t happen long enough and it increases the value of the announcement.
 
Mar 3, 2019
361
Israel
I don't believe any rumors with a SSD + HDD. It is a bad idea from a cost perspective. NAND flah cost is falling. QLC SSD are currently available at 107 euros without IVA, if you took the price for some of the logistic*, retailer profit and the packaging for a mass order the cost is probably 50 euros or dollars and SSD are cheaper in US.

https://www.pccomponentes.com/cruci...MI96qqvJGe4gIVSUHTCh0JhwEmEAQYASABEgLE7_D_BwE

For a 512Gb SSD the cost is half the price 25 dollars but you need to add the price of the HDD, HDD have incompressible cost because of mechanical element, an internal 2To HDD cost 70 dollars in retail probably 35 dollars of cost in a console with mass order. The cost of the two elements combined is more expensive than the SSD alone. If you take a 256 Gb SSD the cost is only 12,5 but you are only a few dollars(2,5) under the cost of a SSD 1tb Nvme alone.

The other problem is this incompressible 35 dollars cost for the HDD at the end of the gen. Price of 128 Gb SSD are very low much lower than a HDD.

We can imagine a console at less than 199 dollars/euros using only a 1Tb SSD and probably less than 149 euros/dollars at the end of the generation(sure at 100% for a console without bluray).

https://www.pccomponentes.com/kings...MIyfC98MWf4gIVaijTCh05HQahEAQYAyABEgIskvD_BwE

The price is 17 euros without taxes, and without all the element I talke about before I doubt the cost is more than 75% of the final price or maybe 50% of the final price.

NAND flash are supposed to contnue to drop until end of the year.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ssd-prices-drop-2019-prediction,37982.html

* some part are for all the console not only the SSD
You don't need to play the long game cost-wise regarding storage, it's not a CPU or GPU which needs to stay more or less the same the whole generation. You will have model refreshes and different storage solutions over the generation, just like any other generation. If starting the generation with a 256GB SSD + 2TB HDD makes sense cost-wise, if 3 years later a 2TB SSD will make more sense than the "S" or "slim" will have a 2TB SSD instead. As long as you upgrade over the years instead of downgrade, it will be fine. Right now 2TB SSD is way too expensive, 4 times more expensive than the 500GB HDD the PS4 and XBO had in 2013 so 1TB is probably the only option for a full SSD storage solution. Right now the retail cost of a 1TB SSD VS a 256GB SSD + 2TB HDD is the same. Will it stay cost the same in 18 months? I don't know, but right now going full SSD with just 1TB storage, that's pretty small and limiting for the end user, it might even create a media backlash.

Right now the X has only 780GB available for games and apps out of its' 1TB drive. Games that are X Enhanced are ~100GB so a lot of next-gen games will probably be bigger than that. We are pretty sure that Halo Infinite and Forza 8 will be launch titles, installing Forza 7 and Halo 5 will take up to 200GB of your X HDD and that is before DLC, so I'm pretty confident that Forza 8 and Halo Infinite will take more than ~1/3 of your HDD on launch day. Do you remember all the stories about "XBO-X HDD is too small"? Like this one, this one or this one? If next-gen launches with 1TB SSD it will be even worse.

Cache drive is the most logical option. Microsoft is already halfway there with their DL project Fast Start which uses DL to prioritize game blocks for early download in order for games to launch faster while downloading. That kind of project is perfectly suited for a DL system that smartly caches partial game data on the SSD from your main 2TB HDD or external drive. It also allows for the use of external drives and cheap HDD upgrades.

And just one remark regarding SSD price drops, we've already seen the lion's share of their price drop. The biggest factor in that trend was oversupply so don't expect SSD prices to drop much lower than 10c per GB, a price they are pretty close to right now.
 

modiz

The Fallen
Oct 8, 2018
2,979
The discussion about how ssd price is expected to drop and hdd isnt is very interesting.
Because it reminds me of the hbm+ddr4 rumor. It mentioned how sony are counting on HBM prices going down over time faster than gddr6 to save costs in the future iirc.
Would be interesting if sony are going all in on expensive components with the assumption their prices will fall. Might mean sony will take a bigger loss on launch from the assumption they could regain that as the gen goes on.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,706
Barcelona Spain
The discussion about how ssd price is expected to drop and hdd isnt is very interesting.
Because it reminds me of the hbm+ddr4 rumor. It mentioned how sony are counting on HBM prices going down over time faster than gddr6 to save costs in the future iirc.
Would be interesting if sony are going all in on expensive components with the assumption their prices will fall. Might mean sony will take a bigger loss on launch from the assumption they could regain that as the gen goes on.
But GDDR6 is not cheap, it is cheaper than HBM2 but if the rumor is true what is interesing it 8Gb of HBM2 cost only 35% to 40% of 8 Gb of GDDR6. It means the other part of the memory is cheaper than 16Gb of GDDR6. I don't know is someone has the cost of GDDR6 and I remember someone told than a discount for mass ordering of RAM is 20 to 40% of the spot price. I am not sure the solution is more expensive than 24 Gb of GDDR6 maybe cheaper.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,072
New Redit Leak

PS5 Details and Launch
  • $449/€449/£399.
  • ~12-13TF.
  • 24GB RAM.
  • 2TB storage (SSD + custom).
  • BC with all previous Playstations.
  • Minor changes to DS5, also has IR camera.
  • Launches worldwide September 2020.
  • PSVR2 coming later.

  • Big first party year 1 games are Gran Turismo and Horizon 2. GT will launch with the console. There's other titles for year 1, but these are the two "big" ones at the reveal event.
  • Japan Studio will be at launch with a new IP, will also be shown off at event, but they have begun work on a AAA title too.
  • San Diego is the only other first party studio planned to appear at the event.

  • No plans for any upcoming PS4 first party titles to be cross gen at release.
  • All of Ghost, TLOU2, and Death Stranding are planned to release by mid-2020 as PS4 games.
  • TLOU2 late 2019, Ghost early 2020, and Death Stranding after that, barring any delays.
  • No PS5 versions are decided at the moment. Focus is on delivering the PS4 versions. Discussions about how to proceed with hypothetical PS5 versions - if you launch a significantly upgraded PS5 game for retail/digital in year 1, then letting PS4 owners pay a small upgrade fee since the PS4 disc is usable and playable on PS5 anyway seems to be favored route. Alternatively, you just play the normal PS4 disc on the PS5.

  • Square Enix will be at reveal event with Luminous Production new IP (RPG) and Final Fantasy 16.
  • FF16 was originally planned as a current gen title but due to the screw up with FF7 Remake which delayed it from the planned release of 2018, it was moved to next gen.
  • FF7 Remake is not a PS5 release. Current gen only and no plans for a PS5 version right now.
  • LP is also making a FF15 PS5 Edition for launch.
  • DQXI with added content will be on PS5.
  • Capcom, Warner Bros, and Rockstar (RDR2 next gen) will be at the reveal event.

Those are the only things confirmed for now as planning is underway.
That is as believable as the shame_pain leak.
 

modiz

The Fallen
Oct 8, 2018
2,979
But GDDR6 is not cheap, it is cheaper than HBM2 but if the rumor is true what is interesing it 8Gb of HBM2 cost only 35% to 40% of 8 Gb of GDDR6. It means the other part of the memory is cheaper than 16Gb of GDDR6. I don't know is someone has the cost of GDDR6 and I remember someone told than a discount for mass ordering of RAM is 20 to 40% of the spot price. I am not sure the solution is more expensive than 24 Gb of GDDR6 maybe cheaper.
And not only it might be cheaper but the price delta might get even larger as time goes on. That was my point. This could lead to sony having better pricing throughout the gen compared to the high end model.
 
Mar 3, 2019
361
Israel
The discussion about how ssd price is expected to drop and hdd isnt is very interesting.
Because it reminds me of the hbm+ddr4 rumor. It mentioned how sony are counting on HBM prices going down over time faster than gddr6 to save costs in the future iirc.
Would be interesting if sony are going all in on expensive components with the assumption their prices will fall. Might mean sony will take a bigger loss on launch from the assumption they could regain that as the gen goes on.
SSDs dropped in price because of oversupply, we are reaching an equilibrium in the SSD market so they won't drop much more than their current price, about 10c per GB. People keep quoting articles from 10 months ago about the expected SSD price drops without even realizing that we are already at the end tail of that drop. a 2TB SSD will probably be too expensive for a console unless one of the platform holders is willing to spend the money on that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,706
Barcelona Spain
You don't need to play the long game cost-wise regarding storage, it's not a CPU or GPU which needs to stay more or less the same the whole generation. You will have model refreshes and different storage solutions over the generation, just like any other generation. If starting the generation with a 256GB SSD + 2TB HDD makes sense cost-wise, if 3 years later a 2TB SSD will make more sense than the "S" or "slim" will have a 2TB SSD instead. As long as you upgrade over the years instead of downgrade, it will be fine. Right now 2TB SSD is way too expensive, 4 times more expensive than the 500GB HDD the PS4 and XBO had in 2013 so 1TB is probably the only option for a full SSD storage solution. Right now the retail cost of a 1TB SSD VS a 256GB SSD + 2TB HDD is the same. Will it stay cost the same in 18 months? I don't know, but right now going full SSD with just 1TB storage, that's pretty small and limiting for the end user, it might even create a media backlash.

Right now the X has only 780GB available for games and apps out of its' 1TB drive. Games that are X Enhanced are ~100GB so a lot of next-gen games will probably be bigger than that. We are pretty sure that Halo Infinite and Forza 8 will be launch titles, installing Forza 7 and Halo 5 will take up to 200GB of your X HDD and that is before DLC, so I'm pretty confident that Forza 8 and Halo Infinite will take more than ~1/3 of your HDD on launch day. Do you remember all the stories about "XBO-X HDD is too small"? Like this one, this one or this one? If next-gen launches with 1TB SSD it will be even worse.

Cache drive is the most logical option. Microsoft is already halfway there with their DL project Fast Start which uses DL to prioritize game blocks for early download in order for games to launch faster while downloading. That kind of project is perfectly suited for a DL system that smartly caches partial game data on the SSD from your main 2TB HDD or external drive. It also allows for the use of external drives and cheap HDD upgrades.

And just one remark regarding SSD price drops, we've already seen the lion's share of their price drop. The biggest factor in that trend was oversupply so don't expect SSD prices to drop much lower than 10c per GB, a price they are pretty close to right now.
But you can have some version staying at 1Tb and other version at 2Tb or more... And we have external HDD storage now for Playstation console too. I don't believe in HDD + SSD solution.And if it was the case, I don't believe in SSD as caching solution because of streaming. The solution Cerny talk about include faster downlaod and streaming...

But it works even without NAND flash price continue to fall much more, they can stay the same price. the problem will be the same.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
1,557
But you can have some version staying at 1Tb and other version at 2Tb or more... And we have external HDD storage now for Playstation console too. I don't believe in HDD + SSD solution.And if it was the case, I don't belive in SSD as caching solution because of streaming. The solution Cerny talk about include faster downlaod and streaming...

But it works even without NAND flash price continue to fall much more, they can stay the same price. the problem will be the same.
Without HDD + custom SSD configuration, you can say good bye to optionnal external HDDs. If people want 4 TB of games on their PS5, well I guess they'll have to...buy 4TB SSD as fast as the SSD inside the PS5. Most won't do it and PS5 will be stuck with 1TB of content (well less than that) for years.

No. HDD + SSD ultra fast cache is the ideal solution.
 
Dec 14, 2018
681
St Kitts
These are a lot of words while trying to say nothing and repeat other stuff as well (FP launch windows is almost copied from jasons comment on kotaku for example.)
I am not saying its true, but at this point is there really anything that anyone can say that wouldn't sound copied in some way? Like every possible scenario has been mentioned in these threads alone. Only thing that hasn't really been speculated on in these threads is what kinda screws they are going to use in the consoles.
 

modiz

The Fallen
Oct 8, 2018
2,979
Without HDD + custom SSD configuration, you can say good bye to optionnal external HDDs. If people want 4 TB of games on their PS5, well I guess they'll have to...buy 4TB SSD as fast as the SSD inside the PS5. Most won't do it and PS5 will be stuck with 1TB of content (well less than that) for years.

No. HDD + SSD ultra fast cache is the ideal solution.
You will just need to replace games between the external HDD and the internal ssd, whether by a manual software or a feature that automatically replaces them based off recently played titles.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,557
You will just need to replace games between the external HDD and the internal ssd, whether by a manual software or a feature that automatically replaces them based off recently played titles.
A console is not a PC and that seems like a hassle. People buy consoles specifically to avoid that. And copying 100 GB of data takes time.
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,832
Games that are X Enhanced are ~100GB so a lot of next-gen games will probably be bigger than that.
Keep in mind that not only are the X-exclusive high-res textures patched in on top of the normal base mode textures, but many of those games probably take advantage of asset duplication to mitigate slow HDD speeds. Next-gen games will not need either of these measures, due to being base versions themselves and having guaranteed super-fast SSDs. Given how the asset duplication discussed in the Spider-Man GDC talk accounts for about 10GB of a 48GB game, and the possibility that the patched-in 4K textures may use asset duplication themselves, I have no doubt that those X-Enhanced game sizes are grossly inflated. Next-gen games will probably fit fine on 100GB discs.
 

modiz

The Fallen
Oct 8, 2018
2,979
A console is not a PC and that seems like a hassle. People buy consoles specifically to avoid that. And copying 100 GB of data takes time.
Here is the thing, after the first initial game loading, you will not need to worry about this loading every next time you start the game as long as the game stays on the ssd. Meanwhile with your solution, the ssd will erase the game content every time you close the game, meaning you will have long starting loading every time you start the game
 
I mean.. maybe. But Xbox BC indeed does not touch the code at all. And yet, Xbox has not chosen to try to release all games, even though we know that there are some games that they've tested and verified but not released. It's possible MS is just trying to keep up relationships or is playing it safe legally, but I think it's likely that it simply isn't that easy. I'm sure no one making deals for 360 were planning ahead to software emulation next gen. There's no way they would have possibly expected that. As a result, I believe that technically MS has to republish all of those games onto the Xbox One themselves to some degree, meaning that licensing must be updated to reflect that.

We'll see whether or not all Xbox ONE games are automatically BC next gen.
XB360 to XB1 BC suffers from the significant hardware architectural difference between the 360's 3+GHz In Order Execution PPC Xenon cores and XB1's 1.6GHz OoOE x86 Jaguar cores. The differences in instruction set architectures and processor speeds mean full clock for clock emulation is impossible. MS thus had to resort to providing per game "emulation" wrappers which do instruction level translation on the fly.

For some games XB1 is fast enough. For others it doesn't. The games they have tested and verified need to be submitted to the publishers to assess whether the performance is acceptable before they are able to release the BC game + emu wrapper container to the public. So even though they don't change the game code, they're still having to provide a per game emulation wrapper that needs to be tweaked for each and every game.

XB1 to XBNext BC is the same x86-64 ISA and even a new CPU that is more than 3 to 4x faster. So on the CPU side, it's not even technically emulation, as the current gen x86 jaguar game will just run on the new CPU natively (Zen will include all the same instructions as Jaguar, but will just expand them). On the GPU side, both XB1 and Navi will both be GCN so the same GPU ISA and if the LLVM compiler changes for Navi are any indication, it appears AMD have added in a whole host of GPU instructions from GCN2 (XB1/PS4) to Navi to ensure native compatibility on the GPU side also.

I don't believe any rumors with a SSD + HDD. It is a bad idea from a cost perspective. NAND flah cost is falling from a cliff. QLC SSD are currently available at 107 euros without IVA(company don't pay IVA in Europe), if you took the price for some of the logistic*, retailer profit and the packaging for a mass order the cost is probably 50 euros or dollars and SSD are cheaper in US.

https://www.pccomponentes.com/crucial-p1-ssd-1tb-3d-nand-nvme-pcie-m2gclid=EAIaIQobChMI96qqvJGe4gIVSUHTCh0JhwEmEAQYASABEgLE7_D_BwE

For a 512Gb SSD the cost is half the price 25 dollars but you need to add the price of the HDD, HDD have incompressible cost because of mechanical element, an internal 2To HDD cost 70 dollars in retail probably 35 dollars of cost in a console with mass order. The cost of the two elements combined is more expensive than the SSD alone. If you take a 256 Gb SSD the cost is only 12,5 but it is only a few dollars(2,5) under the cost of a SSD 1tb Nvme alone.

The other problem is this incompressible 35 dollars cost for the HDD at the end of the gen. Price of 128 Gb SSD are very low much more than a HDD.

We can imagine a console at less than 199 dollars/euros using only a 1Tb SSD and probably less than 149 euros/dollars at the end of the generation(sure at 100% for a console without bluray).

https://www.pccomponentes.com/kings...MIyfC98MWf4gIVaijTCh05HQahEAQYAyABEgIskvD_BwE

The price is 17 euros without taxes, and without all the element I talke about before I doubt the cost is more than 75% of the final price or maybe 50% of the final price.

NAND flash are supposed to contnue to drop until end of the year.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ssd-prices-drop-2019-prediction,37982.html

* some part are for all the console not only the SSD
Didn't the reddit leak say "SSD + custom" not HDD?
 
A well managed internal NAND cache would be pretty much invisible to the end user and, no, it wouldn't need copying entire games to it, not even close to that.

When you install a game, initialization files and stuff for the first few moments of the game are loaded to the NAND and always kept there, so games can always start instantaneously. As you play, OS streams stuff from the HDD to the NAND in the background. Any game you played recently keeps whatever it had loaded recently there, so you can go back to it. Any game that has been shunted off NAND just checks where you were when you last played it and loads those files as the game starts. That means you only have a fraction of each game loaded at any given point, so you can have many games simultaneously there.

The only kind of scenario where I can see having the entirety of a game loaded into NAND is with fighting/racing/sports games.