• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Overall maximum teraflops for next-gen launch consoles?

  • 8 teraflops

    Votes: 43 1.9%
  • 9 teraflops

    Votes: 56 2.4%
  • 12 teraflops

    Votes: 978 42.5%
  • 14 teraflops

    Votes: 525 22.8%
  • Team ALL THE WAY UP +14 teraflops

    Votes: 491 21.3%
  • 10 teraflops (because for some reason I put 9 instead of 10)

    Votes: 208 9.0%

  • Total voters
    2,301
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 27, 2017
20,755
Radeon VII is sold near cost.
Isn't R7 like $700? Do we have proof it's sold at cost?

Because that doesn't seem likely at all. Most businesses charge 2-3x cost, usually 3x, for profits. Considering AMD doesn't get any cut on game software sales I imagine they charge a good profit per card they sell. But I may be missing something here so let me know.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Whe
I think going second is a good strategy. It worked with Sony for the PS4 in 2013. Sony going first now gives the opportunity to Microsoft to one up them and use their marketing against them (again same as 2013). It won't be a pure specs reveal but it'll be a counter which will leave people wondering how Sony will respond. That's my take anyway.

When they "go" in relation to each other has little importance outside of the mind of console waring fans.
What matters is what they say/show and there delivery.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
Isn't R7 like $700? Do we have proof it's sold at cost?

Because that doesn't seem likely at all. Most businesses charge 2-3x cost, usually 3x, for profits. Considering AMD doesn't get any cut on game software sales I imagine they charge a good profit per card they sell. But I may be missing something here so let me know.

The RAM alone is rumored to cost $320 by itself.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,145
But it compare HBM and GDDR within a constraint enviromment in term of TDP and cost like in console, this is already a problem and it begins current gen. 8 GDDR5 in PS4 is not a tiny part of the console consumption. If we could stay with 8Gb of RAM, it woud be better but we need to go to 16 GB of GDDR6 with 256 bits bus or 24 Gb of RAM with a 384 bits bus. The difference between current gen and next gen is HBCC.

EDIT: the micron formula find by anexanhume show bus too play a part in TDP and DrKeo calculation he finds nearly nearly 100 watts for 24 Gb of GDDR6 with a 384 bits.

GDDR5 in ps5 accounted for 20-24w if micron's statement of 2-2.5w for gddr5x(and gddr6) holds true.
 

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
Well I could be wrong, but the rumored devkit has 16 chips of ram in a clamshell configuration.

Using that chart it looks like it can only go 2 ways, 256 or 512 bus. One gives you 576 gb/s and the other a whopping 1152 gb/s.
If that is really the case then it will be 256-bit. The X uses 7Gb/s chips down-clocked from 3500MHz to 3400MHz, if they are using a 4500MHz GDDR6 chips (18Gb/s) then it might be down-clocked too. But I'll be honest, 4500MHz GDDR seems a bit high for a console.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
4,018
Florida
Or it could genuinely be full disclosure. I mean do you think he's trying to mess this up on purpose?

No. The recent videos just haven't had good content. He seems very keen on responding to criticism with drawn out explanations and hypotheticals vs. giving us new tea. I don't care what you knew 6 months ago if you didn't share it until someone else leaked it.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
If that is really the case then it will be 256-bit. The X uses 7Gb/s chips down-clocked from 3500MHz to 3400MHz, if they are using a 4500MHz GDDR6 chips (18Gb/s) then it might be under-clocked too. But I'll be honest, 4500MHz GDDR seems a bit high for a console.
576 gb/s is more probable then. Not a fan of it, since part of it has to power the CPU.

Off-Topic

My loading times for the ERA website and threads are extremely slow at the moment. Endpoint Germany. Anyone with the same issue?
Slow in Malaysia too, yeah.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
Yes lol. It does seem rather odd Sony are making a fuss about a rather trivial feature, no doubt some fans will start acting like load times and streaming are the most important thing in gaming.
Not really trivial.

Think it's understated by many tbh. Better streaming of assets will probably be one of the most important things to happen this gen.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,135
Somewhere South
I'm having a hard time trying to understand why SSD tech is so important to Sony.

Depending on how well integrated the storage solution is with the memory management, it could be much, much bigger than just faster loading times. What you can display on the screen (and what you can do with world sim, for instance) is limited by what you can have loaded onto memory at any given time. The faster you can swap stuff in and out of memory, the denser worlds can be, the larger the asset variety you can have.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,824
Australia
It shows however that Cernys words can mean $399.
As sony have described a console like cerny did for $399.
The context is not that different Andrew House is just explaining the price, like cerny was, house would of said those words regardless of what xbox xbox was doing.

The context is absolutely different (before price reveal vs during/after price reveal, very early interview vs closer to launch E3, no prior $399 console to compare to in House's case, etc.), but you can believe what you want. I'll trust the guy who was actually speaking to Cerny.

Also, I looked at the video again, and I actually don't think their phrasing is as similar as you think. They do both fall under the same general "the price is good for what you get" mold, but House talks about "the entertainment PS4 will provide over the coming years", which feels much more like a reference to games and software (he later mentions a list covering "consumer trust, consumer ownership, games, entertainment, value and innovation - no explicit references to powerful hardware) than Cerny's "advanced feature set" which I feel sounds much more like a reference to expensive and impressive hardware elements. But at this point we're quibbling over really minor word choices and inferences, and I do not think it's going to go anywhere. We can't know for sure what the price will be, and in the end we're going to have to sit and wait like everyone else.
 

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,579
Yes lol. It does seem rather odd Sony are making a fuss about a rather trivial feature, no doubt some fans will start acting like load times and streaming are the most important thing in gaming.

I wonder why my Switch games still have load times if games on cartridges = no load times.

I think the ability to load a world or fast travel through open world games near instantly is going to be amazing.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Not really trivial.

Think it's understated by many tbh. Better streaming of assets will probably be one of the most important things to happen this gen.
It is when talking about a next gen leap, ram + gpu power are far more important,
But like I say it won't surprise me that some people start acting like loading + streaming is the hail Mary of next gen
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,145
A new GT for PS5 launch is like the easiest bet to make.

GTS took so long to release because Polyphony took a lot of time developing a new, super scalable engine for current gen and beyond

GT's history of delays and Kaz's penchant for "perfection" is the reason it's not a good bet.

You have to remember that the reason they gave for the delay of GT:S was the same exact one they gave for GT5. With GT5 they took so long to detail every car beyond current system's capabilities. They were future proofing their models. With GT:S they scrapped those future proof models to start from scratch with new, more future proof models.

Would GT be a good showcase, yes. Was that the same story when PS4 was launching, yes.

No one would be happier if Kaz broke GT's bad track record when it comes to on-time releases, than me.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
It is when talking about a next gen leap, ram + gpu power are far more important,
But like I say it won't surprise me that some people start acting like loading + streaming is the hail Mary of next gen
There's where we differ in our opinion.

RAM + GPU power is of course important, but streaming + loading has always been constricted to HDD speeds for the past decade at least, especially for consoles.
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
GT's history of delays and Kaz's penchant for "perfection" is the reason it's not a good bet.

You have to remember that the reason they gave for the delay of GT:S was the same exact one they gave for GT5. With GT5 they took so long to detail every car beyond current system's capabilities. They were future proofing their models. With GT:S they scrapped those future proof models to start from scratch with new, more future proof models.

Would GT be a good showcase, yes. Was that the same story when PS4 was launching, yes.

No one would be happier if Kaz broke GT's bad track record when it comes to on-time releases, than me.

But.. their making changes in how fast their making cars/tracks now. Their also outsourcing car design work in 2018/2019 to car design universities / technical universities in Japan now. Outsourcing for the first time ever I might add.
If they wanted, they could practically re-release GT Sport as GT 7, adding only what Sport is missing (quirky washing machine / rain/ weather and other missing things)
 
Last edited:

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/a...about-pcie-4-on-matisse-and-x570-chipset.html
lane_bandwidth_vs_networking_protocol.png


Ryzen 3000 will have 4 lanes for storage -> 1.5GB/s per PCIe 4.0 lane ->7.5GB/s in total for an SSD.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
20,755
The RAM alone is rumored to cost $320 by itself.
I'm sure there is strength to those rumors but I can't believe it. There is no scenario where a company that makes profit off hardware would sell any hardware at cost like that, especially AMD which sells to the small market of PC GPU enthusiasts.

I can't see it costing more than $400 total, all things considered, for the card, to be produced. Even that is high.
 

score01

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,699
I'm having a hard time trying to understand why SSD tech is so important to Sony. Sure it will make a huge improvement in the overall user experience but, the competition will also have SSD tech for sure, even if it ends not being faster. If the Xbox takes 4 or 5 seconds more to load games/levels at the end of the day the experience will also be better for Xbox users when compared to current-gen and I think it will make little to no difference - unless ofc the SSD MS is using is trash and some games take around 10-15 seconds to load, which I highly doubt.

On the other hand GPU power could also impact the user experience and if there is a huge different between the two machines Sony will be losing in that department, at least according to MS insiders.

What do you guys think it's more important the SSD tech or GPU? The PS5 seems to be a really well balanced machine while from rumors the Xbox seems to be a monster in GPU performance but I'm not sure by how much.

I think the extra emphasis on SSD tech and speeds at the moment is because theyare not ready to talk about the rest of their tech just yet BUT they feel they have to talk about something. Talking SSD and loads speeds etc lets them be part of the conversation without giving anything too meaningful away.
 

grosbard

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
767
Interesting...

The ps5 dev kit is running a navi based gpu. From what I have heard, sony is going hard on efficiency, cooling, and small form factor. This is for their Japanese audience. They saw how well the switch was received and their main goal is making a console that is small.

The ps5 dev kit is a beast though. Graphically, the few tests I have seen are stunning.

On the other hand, the anaconda dev kit is running a vega based gpu lol. While some specs will change from the dev kit to final release console...vega won't. Here is the kicker, the anaconda dev kit is clearly the better performing of the two. There is an easy 30% - 40% difference. Microsoft built a monster


http://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/463191721/ps5-and-anaconda-dev-kits-in-studio
 
Last edited:

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,088
There's where we differ in our opinion.

RAM + GPU power is of course important, but streaming + loading has always been constricted to HDD speeds for the past decade at least, especially for consoles.

Thing is after the new consoles come out it going to be hard to go back to the old ones.
I feel loading will be one of the reasons , it hard to go back when you notice how much better things are .
As someone who play a lot of fighting games SSD will be god send .


Nothing interesting about that .
The fact that someone think Sony will build there next gen console with Japan in mind is funny ( less than 10% of there market )
What even more funny is the the reason he using .
Switch doing good in Japan because it portable which PS5 will never be .
 
Last edited:

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
One of the 2 author's of this patent works at Pixelopus (Concrete Genie), so this is maybe just a patent for the animation techniques they are using for that game. I do recall the animations being quite unique with how they handle faces.

Thanks! I searched but couldn't find the name.

I'm sure there is strength to those rumors but I can't believe it. There is no scenario where a company that makes profit off hardware would sell any hardware at cost like that, especially AMD which sells to the small market of PC GPU enthusiasts.

I can't see it costing more than $400 total, all things considered, for the card, to be produced. Even that is high.

Well I guess since you can't see it, it all must be bogus.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,145
I'm sure there is strength to those rumors but I can't believe it. There is no scenario where a company that makes profit off hardware would sell any hardware at cost like that, especially AMD which sells to the small market of PC GPU enthusiasts.

I can't see it costing more than $400 total, all things considered, for the card, to be produced. Even that is high.

It's based on 2017 estimated prices as far as I can tell.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topi...-viis-hbm-2-costs-almost-half-the-gpus-price/

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3032-vega-56-cost-of-hbm2-and-necessity-to-use-it
 

Trieu

Member
Feb 22, 2019
1,774
[/QUOTE]

The questions I have here are :

- How does he know about Sony plans regarding a small form factor and what motivated it considering he is "only an entry low level software designer"
- How does he know about that Vega won't change for the final console? Where would he have that information from in his position?
- If MS is using Vega and Sony is using Navi how can Microsoft get away with 40% more performance, especially given that Vega is terrible for perf/watt and Navi could improve on that. That would mean the MS console draws like 50-60% more power, which is unlikely.

I am always very suspicious when they claim random bits of information that are clearly hard to come by.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.