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Overall maximum teraflops for next-gen launch consoles?

  • 8 teraflops

    Votes: 43 1.9%
  • 9 teraflops

    Votes: 56 2.4%
  • 12 teraflops

    Votes: 978 42.5%
  • 14 teraflops

    Votes: 525 22.8%
  • Team ALL THE WAY UP +14 teraflops

    Votes: 491 21.3%
  • 10 teraflops (because for some reason I put 9 instead of 10)

    Votes: 208 9.0%

  • Total voters
    2,301
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BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
About PS5 having a disc drive...Haven't Sony just confirmed disc support at the IR Day?

I guess they could also do a discless version too at launch or later but as it stands right now PS5 will have an optical drive.
 
Feb 23, 2019
1,426
I strongly believe that if there is a $399 PS5 without a disc drive and one with a disc drive and twice the storage for $499.... the $399 SKU will sell better.

I think that would be an awesome strategy for Sony to pursue

And makes sense, too. They take a larger loss on the low end model but it's subsidized by those who want the disc drive and also the fact that digital owners have higher margins over time.

Smart, IMO
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
I think that would be an awesome strategy for Sony to pursue

And makes sense, too. They take a larger loss on the low end model but it's subsidized by those who want the disc drive and also the fact that digital owners have higher margins over time.

Smart, IMO

I really don't see how that is smart at least at the start of the gen .
Sony sells good in markets where physical is still the major parts of sales.
Sony is pushing backward compatible and choice as seen form there IR day .
Muddles the early marketing message and manufacturing .
 

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,279
On god if they delay spec blowout until E3 imma be mad as hell. Why tf would you save that for E3, your at fucking COMPUTEX bruh.

E3 is where you show gaming benchmarks and shit like that.
Clearly they moved Zen 2 to E3 because Navi is such a disappointment.

Is it 8TF Monday yet?
lupe1.png
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
I really don't see how that is smart at least at the start of the gen .
Sony sells good in markets where physical is still the major parts of sales.
Sony is pushing backward compatible and choice as seen form there IR day .
Muddles the early marketing message and manufacturing .
I don't know how or why offering two SKUs f the same thing with the only difference being the presence of a disc drive is muddying waters...

ok another scenario.

$399 2TB without disc drive or $399 1TB with dis drive.

Clearly they moved Zen 2 to E3 because Navi is such a disappointment.

Is it 8TF Monday yet?
lupe1.png
In Australia yes....
 
Feb 23, 2019
1,426
I really don't see how that is smart at least at the start of the gen .
Sony sells good in markets where physical is still the major parts of sales.
Sony is pushing backward compatible and choice as seen form there IR day .
Muddles the early marketing message and manufacturing .

I don't understand your point when they're still offering a disc drive SKU and/or an external drive

Those customers have that option

It's in Sony's interest to push more users to go digital, it lessens the cost of the unit for those that already have

It's a win win. You're not abandoning any market segment
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
I really don't see how that is smart at least at the start of the gen .
Sony sells good in markets where physical is still the major parts of sales.
Sony is pushing backward compatible and choice as seen form there IR day .
Muddles the early marketing message and manufacturing .
? They r talking about a hypothetical case Sony already confirmed 2 times ps5 has disk drive
 

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
that is because you live in the bubble of how much digital is growing.
unlike you and me, sony has access to a lot more data, and that data is saying that in many countries that are not the US and the big european countries, physical is a significant majority, iirc DG in spain was #1 in sales and did like 75% physical.
In the 2018FY, 37% of Sony's game sales were digital. So yeah, it might be a bit soon to go all digital right now but when it gets to 80% or 85%? It's not worth it to design your whole console with this huge disk drive sitting there right in the middle of it and making things a lot less elegant and more expensive. At some point, you just have to go with the majority, make a diskless console and maybe sell an add-on drive for that 15%-20 % of customers.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,831
In the 2018FY, 37% of Sony's game sales were digital. So yeah, it might be a bit soon to go all digital right now but when it gets to 80% or 85%? It's not worth it to design your whole console with this huge disk drive sitting there right in the middle of it and making things a lot less elegant and more expensive. At some point, you just have to go with the majority, make a diskless console and maybe sell an add-on drive for that 15%-20 % of customers.
it wont be that high, for the next 10, 15 years. you will see.
 

Red Tapir

Member
May 10, 2019
591
Launching multiple Skus with/without disc drives is a bad idea.
It does indeed muddy the message of BC on PS5, but it's also just silly.

Most early adopters go for the most expensive model. Even with the PS3, people went for the 699(!) model with 60GB over the cheaper 20GB one.

This means that most people will just get the expensive one, leading to the cheaper one becoming an undesirable, hardly discussed and mostly forgotten Sku.
Even if cheaper, the lack of a disc drive will make it pretty much worthless in foreign markets.
 
Feb 23, 2019
1,426
Launching multiple Skus with/without disc drives is a bad idea.
It does indeed muddy the message of BC on PS5, but it's also just silly.

Most early adopters go for the most expensive model. Even with the PS3, people went for the 699(!) model with 60GB over the cheaper 20GB one.

This means that most people will just get the expensive one, leading to the cheaper one becoming an undesirable, hardly discussed and mostly forgotten Sku.
Even if cheaper, the lack of a disc drive will make it pretty much worthless in foreign markets.

In some markets, a disc drive is a lot more important, in others potentially 30-40%+ would opt for the driveless version

It's just good business to offer a cheaper product for functionality that isn't useful to a large segment of the user base.

The marketing message isn't a very difficult hurdle
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
I don't understand your point when they're still offering a disc drive SKU and/or an external drive

Those customers have that option

It's in Sony's interest to push more users to go digital, it lessens the cost of the unit for those that already have

It's a win win. You're not abandoning any market segment

No it's not in sony interest to push people into DD .
It's sony interest to keep people in there eco system , people will go DD when they are ready .
Because your asking disc people to pay more if you want to go the subsidized route .
If it's any thing first year users is who you want the most since they spend the most and best to give them all options at cheapest price you can .
 

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
About PS5 having a disc drive...Haven't Sony just confirmed disc support at the IR Day?

I guess they could also do a discless version too at launch or later but as it stands right now PS5 will have an optical drive.
We talked about the rumor of the lower tier Xbox having no disk drive.
it wont be that high, for the next 10, 15 years. you will see.
If Microsoft is willing to go diskless in one SKU in 20219, there is a good chance that in 2027-28 when the next-next-gen comes out they will be going with mostly diskless SKUs or even all of them while offering some kind of external solution, just like their HD-DVD thing :)
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
I know just give ideas why that hypothetical case might not be worth it to Sony at least early on .

Damn double post lol.
Oh ok got it.

This raises another question.what if Lockhart is indeed diskless like some of the rumors suggest .how would Xbox fans react ?
Wouldn't it be weird to remove the disk option for cheap console hence blocking the customer choice in buying the games cheaper ?
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,831
We talked about the rumor of the lower tier Xbox having no disk drive.

If Microsoft is willing to go diskless in one SKU in 20219, there is a good chance that in 2027-28 when the next-next-gen comes out they will be going with mostly diskless SKUs or even all of them while offering some kind of external solution, just like their HD-DVD thing :)
that is because MS are very US centric. sony have a world wide focus, and in many places world wide, physical media dominates hard.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
We talked about the rumor of the lower tier Xbox having no disk drive.

If Microsoft is willing to go diskless in one SKU in 20219, there is a good chance that in 2027-28 when the next-next-gen comes out they will be going with mostly diskless SKUs or even all of them while offering some kind of external solution, just like their HD-DVD thing :)
That would be stupid, in my opinion.

The lowest cost SKU not having one of the easiest ways to get cheap games would be a big mistake.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,136
Somewhere South
A purely digital SKU can be interesting for a variety of reasons: there's the obvious fact that you can make it cheaper by removing the drive (and, also, making smaller and lighter, so less cost in materials, shipping and handling fees), but digital games tend to cost more for longer and can't be resold and/or bought used, and it's a platform with stronger potential of ecosystem lock-in.

They could likely subsidize a drive-less SKU much more aggressively, if they chose to. It's much more likely to be something that appeals more to entrenched, early adopter, power users, though, so it shouldn't be seen as a budget option.
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,264
A purely digital SKU can be interesting for a variety of reasons: there's the obvious fact that you can make it cheaper by removing the drive (and, also, making smaller and lighter, so less cost in materials, shipping and handling fees), but digital games tend to cost more for longer and can't be resold and/or bought used, and it's a platform with stronger potential of ecosystem lock-in.

They could likely subsidize a drive-less SKU much more aggressively, if they chose to. It's much more likely to be something that appeals more to entrenched, early adopter, power users, though, so it shouldn't be seen as a budget option.

Disc drives are cheap and the only way a disc drive-less console would be significantly different in shipping and handling fees is if they do a completely different design, which R&D for such a thing isn't inexpensive. Maybe down the road, but not in the first few years.
 

Deleted member 35631

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 8, 2017
1,139
IMO, the best thing Sony can do is launch with one SKU only. I am not sure if Microsoft strategy will be good for them, and Sony proved with the PS4 that having only one SKU is a right thing to do.

IF Sony launches two SKU, it should not have different specs. It should only differ in features like different SDD storage options, or Disc drive, something like that.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,543
I hope the PS5 offers a disk-less option that's smaller and runs cooler. Started the PS4 gen as digital only and plan to keep it that way on PS5.

A disc drive doesn't run in modern consoles playing a game so it won't affect the thermals in regards to usage.

I can't imagine they would make 2 entirely separate motherboards especially at launch to accommodate to make the console smaller. A digital only wouldn't look much different.
 

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,580
A disc drive doesn't run in modern consoles playing a game so it won't affect the thermals in regards to usage.

I can't imagine they would make 2 entirely separate motherboards especially at launch to accommodate to make the console smaller. A digital only wouldn't look much different.
The drive housing is pretty large- they could use the same motherboard in both, but make the non-optical version sleeker with a much smaller footprint. If you look at the current PS4 Slim tear down, the optical drive takes up an absolutely huge amount of room (almost 1/4 of the console).

 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
Disc drives are cheap and the only way a disc drive-less console would be significantly different in shipping and handling fees is if they do a completely different design, which R&D for such a thing isn't inexpensive. Maybe down the road, but not in the first few years.
A UHD disc drive will knock off $35 from the BOM. After 10M sales of that SKU $350M in savings..... there is nothing long term about that, that's an immediate benefit. And that holds true throughout the course of the generation because even at $35 a pop that will be the cost of that component bottoming out. And they don't have to do a completely different design...
IMO, the best thing Sony can do is launch with one SKU only. I am not sure if Microsoft strategy will be good for them, and Sony proved with the PS4 that having only one SKU is a right thing to do.

IF Sony launches two SKU, it should not have different specs. It should only differ in features like different SDD storage options, or Disc drive, something like that.
Technically, even the XB1 launched with only one SKU..... and if anything the XB360and PS3 proved that having multiple SKUs can work.
A disc drive doesn't run in modern consoles playing a game so it won't affect the thermals in regards to usage.

I can't imagine they would make 2 entirely separate motherboards especially at launch to accommodate to make the console smaller. A digital only wouldn't look much different.
Again,it doesn't have to look different. And they don't have to redesign the motherboard. It shul be from a pure price or use case perspective. Nothing me nothing less.

SCENARIO 1: $499 1TB + UHD drive or $499 2TB SSD and NO UHD drive. (this is the function option, if you want to go all digital then you would want a larger SSD since the UHD will be useless to you)
SCENARIO 2: $399 1TB SSD with NO UHD drive or $499 1TB SSD + UHD drive (the price option, if you want to save money and forfeit something you don't plan on using then the choice is there or you)

Either way, it needs to be accepted that there are two distinct types of consumers now when it comes to buying games. Having over 35% of sales being digital is not something to be ignored completely. Why should they make everyone pay for something that around 40% of the consumers won't use at all?
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
If we judge by what AMD said at computex 2018 I would be quite surprised if we didn't get the first details on Navi.
If they don't, it would be pretty lame talking about vega.
 

BradGrenz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,507
Power of teh cloud 2.0!

I find these hybrid solutions kinda weird, at this stage we know we can straight up stream games. if you're streaming the lighting you're still gonna have to either lag the game or it would be weird where the lighting would have a lag the rest of the game didn't.

Hybrid rendering has all of the downsides of pure streaming with none of the benefits.
 

Dokkaebi G0SU

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,922
so can someone break down how/when/where to watch computex?
i dont know anything about it and if it ever streamed so forgive me if this is just a conference for those in attendance and we get trickles of info from news outlets.
 

pg2g

Member
Dec 18, 2018
4,794
IMO, the best thing Sony can do is launch with one SKU only. I am not sure if Microsoft strategy will be good for them, and Sony proved with the PS4 that having only one SKU is a right thing to do.

IF Sony launches two SKU, it should not have different specs. It should only differ in features like different SDD storage options, or Disc drive, something like that.

How did they prove its the right thing to do when nobody has really tried what Microsoft is rumored to try?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,844
I wonder how the XBoxSAD is selling, and if there's any pushback from retail.

I remember Gamestop refusing to stock the PSPgo due to it being digital only.
 

VallenValiant

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,598
Wake up, discless PS5 chat is going hard.

What did I miss another leak?
Nope. Just the usual "what if Sony copy what MS is doing?" Hypothetical.
Frankly I have been sick of this since XBOne when the same talk was about maybe Sony would make ps4 always online. It is some kind of mental wish that want to normalize MS's strange business decisions.
Last I checked, diskless XB1 has dropped off the discussions. No one is excited for it.
 

Bung Hole

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
2,169
Auckland, New Zealand
Speculation in response to more speculation about the possibility of Prof. Lockhart may not ingesting and regurgitating physical media.

Nope. Just the usual "what if Sony copy what MS is doing?" Hypothetical.
Frankly I have been sick of this since XBOne when the same talk was about maybe Sony would make ps4 always online. It is some kind of mental wish that want to normalize MS's strange business decisions.
Last I checked, diskless XB1 has dropped off the discussions. No one is excited for it.

Man, this thread plays with ones emotions. Its looney tunes in here. Good god, we need a solid leak to get us back on the straight and narrow.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,760
Nope. Just the usual "what if Sony copy what MS is doing?" Hypothetical.
Frankly I have been sick of this since XBOne when the same talk was about maybe Sony would make ps4 always online. It is some kind of mental wish that want to normalize MS's strange business decisions.
Last I checked, diskless XB1 has dropped off the discussions. No one is excited for it.

That may have more to do with XB1 than any particular Xbox SKU. Myself, I'd be excited for one if I were still required to buy an Xbox to play MS games.

Within the next 12 hours, this thread will be between 10 and 20 pages further along courtesy of Computex.

Big question is, will it be because of the details, or the lack of?
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,065
The Microsoft research tech I was talking about would actually not have the latency issues normal game streaming has.
The specific research that was publicized had no latency reduction at all, it saves bandwidth use, with the of added complexity of lock-step deterministic simulation on client, something that doesn't work at all on majority of game tech stacks today.
 
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