Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE

GameSeeker · Apr 21, 2019

It's an interesting rumor. It's the kind of technology sharing I would expect Microsoft would do. Producing multiple SKU's using unique, but different 7nm silicon chips is far too expensive to make business sense. You have to share the technology and components across the SKU's in order for multiple SKU's to make sense.

The rumor says Microsoft is making 3 shared designs/SKU's:
Lockhart - aimed at customers with 1080p TV's
Anaconda - aimed at customers with 4K TV's
Data Center SKU - Anaconda with double the CPU's. Allows one data Center SKU to serve 2 or more customers. This is the streaming box, but not sold to consumers. It only resides in the data center and streams to your TV or mobile device. Microsoft's competitor to Google Stadia.

Deleted member 40133 · Apr 21, 2019

grosbard said:
Could a second cpu be used specifically for the os, background process like clip recording, and game streaming (twitch/mixer)?

Ps4 has an arm processor does those exact things. A zen 2 would be wayyyy overkill

eathdemon · Apr 21, 2019

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Clearly.

Let me spell it out clearly for you, since you seem to be struggling to grasp it:

If Scarlett games in the first 12 months are cross-gen (i.e. playable on XB1X and by extension XB1S), how does MS market a Lockheart console with < 6 TFLOPs GPU perf. which runs games at 1080p (which is the popular argument for Lockheart) when the same (cross-gen) games in the first 12 months will be 4k (or close to it) on the last-gen XB1X?

The issue is, from the perspective of the consumer, Lockheart suddenly seems entirely redundant; and especially so when early cross-gen games will even render at higher than 1080p on PS4Pro; leaving Lockheart with its 1080p cross-gen ports looking pathetic.

So.... either Lockheart won't have a GPU slower than XB1X, or it won't run games at 1080p as its primary "selling point" (as most here seem to rationalize).

Not sure what this has to do with the discussion. PC Gaming is not consoles and never has been for the past few decades of console's existence. Trying to equate the two only demonstrates a distinct lack of understanding of the major differences between the platforms and gamer markets.

no its selling point is it can run nextgen games for $300, instead of $500. also the target isnt x owners, its owners of base consoles.

Gamer17 · Apr 21, 2019

hmqgg said:
Absolutely not.

Oh thank God haha.I m hoping anaconda is 14tf and ps5 12+ tf .dream still lives another day

christocolus · Apr 21, 2019

hmqgg said:
Absolutely not.

good to know... I guess we will have to keep waiting for MS to drop the info.

rokkerkory · Apr 21, 2019

Gamer17 said:
So anaconda is 11.1 TF and Lockhart 5.5TF ? So if a game is 1080 p on Lockhart ,how can it be 4k on anacanda ? Unless Lockhart is a 720 p machine ?

11.1TF is the stadia competitor?

Tappin Brews · Apr 21, 2019

Gamer17 said:
So anaconda is 11.1 TF and Lockhart 5.5TF ? So if a game is 1080 p on Lockhart ,how can it be 4k on anacanda ? Unless Lockhart is a 720 p machine ?

i think you are looking at this the wrong way. the idea is not to take a 1080p lockheart game and scale it up to 4k, its to take the "4k" anaconda game and downscale it to the "1080p" machine. it would be smart to have some head room (though this being only 2x seems like much more than enough...)

EDIT: apparently these numbers are bogus.

Papacheeks · Apr 21, 2019

bcatwilly said:
Something else to consider with the talk about Sony being willing to take a loss/even larger loss than PS4 is that it may be even more risky given the overall landscape of gaming changing with things like Stadia and streaming in general. I think that we all agree that things won't change overnight, but it would not be unreasonable to consider the fact that Sony may very well be at their peak currently in terms of market share percentage of gaming. So while it is also reasonable/even expected that they will continue to "win" next generation by certain metrics, it is also not unreasonabla at all to expect that their overall market percentage may go down some amount due to a stronger going in Xbox approach and all of the other industry factors at play such as Google involved and such. So being willing from the beginning to eat a good amount of money could really bite you if not careful.

God not this shit again. Streaming is only a option. No one is going to go to it for their main source. It will get some use yea, but it's still 5 years off from being adopted at the same rate dedicated console gaming is.

VX1 · Apr 21, 2019

anexanhume said:
That's the point. Without him collating the info, we wouldn't have it here, so give credit where credit is due.

I remember Putty told me here months ago never to quote that guy again,i had no idea back then who is he :)

Kuro · Apr 21, 2019

anexanhume said:

SATA3 means its not an NVMe drive... honestly this looks like a bunch of bullshit to me.

SharpX68K · Apr 21, 2019

So despite this guy being an Xbox fanboy, does the info he's providing seem legit?

anexanhume · Apr 21, 2019

hmqgg said:
Absolutely not.

So are you saying the RCC mentioned in the tweet I quoted is correct, or just the part about HBM? Because this other "leak" references RCC too.

EDIT: To make sure everyone pumps the brakes here, I don't know if that tweet is the first time hmqgg has seen Arden referenced in the context of PCI-ID. If that's the only thing they're confirming, that's not much and not anything some of us already didn't know.

BreakAtmo · Apr 21, 2019

anexanhume said:
The HBM is used solely for games. Of the remaining 16GB DDR4, 4GB is reserved for the OS.

HBCC (high bandwidth cache controller) is the intelligence that manages what's in the HBM versus DDR4 for games. The leak says devs have the option to override this.

The problem with the PS4 memory solution was that as the CPU demanded more bandwidth, it decreased the bandwidth to the GPU by more than what the CPU was taking. Basically, as the CPU reads more data, the chance it's reading a bank the GPU wants to access goes up, meaning someone has to take priority.

With this solution, the chance of that happening goes way down. The DDR4 alone would have the same number of banks as the GDDR5 in PS4, and the HBM would have 512 banks for very granular access.

Wait - do you mean that the DDR4 will have the same number of banks per GB as the GDDR5, or that 16GB of DDR4 will have the same number of banks as 8GB of GDDR5?

anexanhume · Apr 21, 2019

BreakAtmo said:
Wait - do you mean that the DDR4 will have the same number of banks per GB as the GDDR5, or that 16GB of DDR4 will have the same number of banks as 8GB of GDDR5?

The latter. It's a 256 bit (quad channel) DDR4 bus.

itchi · Apr 21, 2019

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Clearly.

Let me spell it out clearly for you, since you seem to be struggling to grasp it:

If Scarlett games in the first 12 months are cross-gen (i.e. playable on XB1X and by extension XB1S), how does MS market a Lockheart console with < 6 TFLOPs GPU perf. which runs games at 1080p (which is the popular argument for Lockheart) when the same (cross-gen) games in the first 12 months will be 4k (or close to it) on the last-gen XB1X?

Simple. If you own a PS4 / X1S and game at 1080p Lockheart is a 2x GPU upgrade. If You already game at 4k on an X1X then Anaconda is also a 2X GPU upgrade. But you are right an X1X owner buying Lockheart doesn't make any sense.

Gamer17 · Apr 21, 2019

rokkerkory said:
11.1TF is the stadia competitor?

Isn't that xcloud? These are actual hardware specs that are apparently not correct

TheThreadsThatBindUs · Apr 21, 2019

itchi said:
Simple. If you own a PS4 / X1S and game at 1080p Lockheart is a 2x GPU upgrade. If You already game at 4k on an X1X then Anaconda is also a 2X GPU upgrade. But you are right an X1X owner buying Lockheart doesn't make any sense.

Except it's not a 2x GPU upgrade... not perceptively and thus meaningfully so. In the first 12 months of cross-gen games, Lockheart essentially offers XB1S owners very little reason to upgrade at all, and PS4 owners zero reason at all to transition as both Lockheart and PS4 versions of 3rd party games will be 1080p.

I honestly don't see Lockheart being meaningful as a product if its less than XB1X's GPU performance.

eathdemon said:
no its selling point is it can run nextgen games for $300, instead of $500. also the target isnt x owners, its owners of base consoles.

Outside of platform exclusives (and even then it's not a given) there will be no next-gen games (i.e. not also available on PS4/XB1S) for the first 12 months at least.

So, in that period, what's the selling point?

There will be a cross-gen of XB1S and XB1X owners looking to upgrade at the start of the gen. Practically all will fail to see the value of Lockheart if it only does the first year's worth of cross-gen games in 1080p... thus, where's the value of Lockheart and who's going to want to buy it?

If you own a XB1S and can play every major 3rd party game from 2020 through 2021 in 720 to 1080p, how does Lockheart offer much if any value at all - if it takes a year at the minimum to even see a major justification for its existence?

eathdemon · Apr 21, 2019

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Outside of platform exclusives (and even then it's not a given) there will be no next-gen games (i.e. not also available on PS4/XB1S) for the first 12 months at least.

So, in that period, what's the selling point?

There will be a cross-gen of XB1S and XB1X owners looking to upgrade at the start of the gen. Practically all will fail to see the value of Lockheart if it only does the first year's worth of cross-gen games in 1080p... thus, where's the value of Lockheart and who's going to want to buy it?

If you own a XB1S and can play every major 3rd party game from 2020 through 2021 in 720 to 1080p, how does Lockheart offer much if any value at all - if it takes a year at the minimum to even see a major justification for its existence?

they will both look much better, and run much better. last time thisd happend the last gen games ran like shit.

Bradbatross · Apr 21, 2019

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Outside of platform exclusives (and even then it's not a given) there will be no next-gen games (i.e. not also available on PS4/XB1S) for the first 12 months at least.

So, in that period, what's the selling point?

There will be a cross-gen of XB1S and XB1X owners looking to upgrade at the start of the gen. Practically all will fail to see the value of Lockheart if it only does the first year's worth of cross-gen games in 1080p... thus, where's the value of Lockheart and who's going to want to buy it?

If you own a XB1S and can play every major 3rd party game from 2020 through 2021 in 720 to 1080p, how does Lockheart offer much if any value at all - if it takes a year at the minimum to even see a major justification for its existence?

The selling point is all the hyped up nextgen features (ray-tracing, no load times, whatever else there is) in a $300 box.

Kuro · Apr 21, 2019

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
What is Ariel and where did the connection to it and PS5 come from?

Actually looking into things, it does seem that Ariel could be the plausible GPU config for PS5. Its basically the custom configuration's code name.

TheThreadsThatBindUs · Apr 21, 2019

eathdemon said:
they will both look much better, and run much better. last time thisd happend the last gen games ran like shit.

If this generational transition is anything like the last, the difference between Anaconda/PS5 versions of cross-gen ports and XB1S/PS4 versions won't even be that significant; much less Lockheart.

So I don't think I'm as optimistic as you.

Bradbatross said:
The selling point is all the hyped up nextgen features (ray-tracing, no load times, whatever else there is) in a $300 box.

None of the features, except loadtimes, will manifest in the first 12 months (minimum) of Cross-Gen ports -- outside of first party exclusives (which may be cross-gen also for a period of time).

Kuro said:
Actually looking into things, it does seem that Ariel could be the plausible GPU config for PS5. Its basically the custom configuration's code name.

Source?

I can't find where this Ariel codename comes from.

Andromeda · Apr 21, 2019

Bradbatross said:
The selling point is all the hyped up nextgen features (ray-tracing, no load times, whatever else there is) in a $300 box.

That has still not being hyped by MS. One MS leaker here even thinks instant loading stuff showed by Sony is because of GPU decompression tricks and that MS will have the same. Meaning MS won't have almost instant loadings as demoed by Sony but only improved assets decompression.

SublimeAnarky · Apr 21, 2019

There is so much going on in this thread that I'm completely clueless about 😂.

I think the one thing I can take away, is that next gen looks to be all about both MS and Sony going big! Love it!

Kuro · Apr 21, 2019

hmqgg said:
Nice to see someone found out what's Arden.
Hope Argalus to be decrypted soon ;)

Argalus is code name for Anaconda SoC config eh? I'm guessing Arden is the cloud blades setup.

BreakAtmo · Apr 21, 2019

anexanhume said:
The latter. It's a 256 bit (quad channel) DDR4 bus.

Oh. That's a shame. :(

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Except it's not a 2x GPU upgrade... not perceptively and thus meaningfully so. In the first 12 months of cross-gen games, Lockheart essentially offers XB1S owners very little reason to upgrade at all, and PS4 owners zero reason at all to transition as both Lockheart and PS4 versions of 3rd party games will be 1080p.

I honestly don't see Lockheart being meaningful as a product if its less than XB1X's GPU performance.

Outside of platform exclusives (and even then it's not a given) there will be no next-gen games (i.e. not also available on PS4/XB1S) for the first 12 months at least.

So, in that period, what's the selling point?

There will be a cross-gen of XB1S and XB1X owners looking to upgrade at the start of the gen. Practically all will fail to see the value of Lockheart if it only does the first year's worth of cross-gen games in 1080p... thus, where's the value of Lockheart and who's going to want to buy it?

If you own a XB1S and can play every major 3rd party game from 2020 through 2021 in 720 to 1080p, how does Lockheart offer much if any value at all - if it takes a year at the minimum to even see a major justification for its existence?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I would assume that Lockhart will be fully 4K-capable in terms of output and playing old games. My conception of it since I heard of it was that it would basically be an X with higher RAM bandwidth and a Zen2 CPU. So it would play everything the X can looking just as good as on the X (though probably with better performance), while also playing all Scarlett games at cut-down resolutions that would probably be around 1080p but would really be up to the devs.

That's why I think the word about a 4TF Lockhart is very suspect, unless a 4TF Navi GPU slightly exceeds the X GPU, which seems unlikely.

Bradbatross · Apr 21, 2019

Andromeda said:
That has still not being hyped by MS. One MS leaker here even thinks instant loading stuff showed by Sony is because of GPU decompression tricks and that MS will have the same. Meaning MS won't have almost instant loadings as demoed by Sony but only improved assets decompression.

Nothing is being hyped up from MS yet because they haven't revealed their consoles..

Saint-14 · Apr 21, 2019

Andromeda said:
That has still not being hyped by MS. One MS leaker here even thinks instant loading stuff showed by Sony is because of GPU decompression tricks and that MS will have the same. Meaning MS won't have almost instant loadings as demoed by Sony but only improved assets decompression.

I think he said the fast loading is because of that which MS uses too, the two consoles might be closer to each other in features than we think.

BitsandBytes · Apr 21, 2019

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Source?

I can't find where this Ariel codename comes from.

I believe one place where the code names come from is the PCI-ID site: https://pci-ids.ucw.cz/v2.2/pci.ids

http:///jnsd.png

13E9-Ariel. Gonzalo AMD code number has 13E9 as Navi 10 Lite.

Kuro · Apr 21, 2019

Hmm reading some rumblings that Anaconda is based on Navi 20 which is crazy. Would make the cost of the console easily $600+. Will we see the first $700 console of the modern age?

grosbard · Apr 21, 2019

hmqgg said:
Absolutely not.

So you can tell us that info isn't accurate but you won't just tell us what you know?

eathdemon · Apr 21, 2019

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
If this generational transition is anything like the last, the difference between Anaconda/PS5 versions of cross-gen ports and XB1S/PS4 versions won't even be that significant; much less Lockheart.

So I don't think I'm as optimistic as you.

None of the features, except loadtimes, will manifest in the first 12 months (minimum) of Cross-Gen ports -- outside of first party exclusives (which may be cross-gen also for a period of time).

Source?

I can't find where this Ariel codename comes from.

I am almost 100% positive we will see launch games with raytracing, and yes you can 100% see the difrince in any video you look at.

Saint-14 · Apr 21, 2019

Kuro said:
Hmm reading some rumblings that Anaconda is based on Navi 20 which is crazy. Would make the cost of the console easily $600+. Will we see the first $700 console of the modern age?

There is no reason to make such a console other than to just tick the power box, if MS haven't thought of this well they could find themselves in a situation where the low end offering is too weak and the high end is too expensive.

Lagspike_exe · Apr 21, 2019

I can see that the hype train is accelerating!

GUNDAM STARDUST · Apr 21, 2019

anexanhume said:
The following patent is associated with Mark S. Grossman, lead GPU architect of Xbox

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20180364944.pdf

Lots of good stuff on Variable Rate Shading coming from Mr. Grossman
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20190005712.pdf
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/10152819.pdf

Texture filtering
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/WO2018151870A1.pdf

Depth-aware reprojection (for HMD)

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/10129523.pdf

Tile-based texture operations

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/8587602.pdf

He is a former AMD engineer, so you can find him on lots of cross-fire multi-GPU patents as well.

A tweet for some context

Adding eDRAM as L4 to reduce GDDR latency for system functions sounds interesting. Wonder if it will function better than the PS5 split RAM rumor.

eathdemon · Apr 21, 2019

Saint-14 said:
There is no reason to make such a console other than to just tick the power box, if MS haven't thought of this well they could find themselves in a situation where the low end offering is too weak and the high end is too expensive.

depends ms is a services company, they are 100% cool on taking a hardware lose that is more than 1 game sale.

nolifebr · Apr 21, 2019

eathdemon said:
depends ms is a services company, they are 100% cool on taking a hardware lose that is more than 1 game sale.

If that were the case, Xone SAD would not cost $250.

kostacurtas · Apr 21, 2019

hmqgg said:
Absolutely not.

A piece of paper that someone wrote is not legit?

You can't trust anyone anymore.

Saint-14 · Apr 21, 2019

eathdemon said:
depends ms is a services company, they are 100% cool on taking a hardware lose that is more than 1 game sale.

Aren't people expecting $100 loss from both companies? I doubt anyone would go +$200 like the PS3 anymore.

Barnabas Reynolds · Apr 21, 2019

DrKeo said:
I don't know when AMD will become competitive again, but NVIDIA will have the 3000 series out before the PS5 and Xbox hit store shelves so I don't see AMD as a real competitor to NVIDIA in the coming years. What will the 3000 series look like in 7nm? NVIDIA is already kicking ass with a much better TDP.

Do you know what the leap from 12nm to 7nm looks like for NV in terms of transistor density?

jelly · Apr 21, 2019

Most important question, matte black for both or is someone going to do it wrong again and go gloss. Sony can maybe go a bit above their bottom tier plastic but I suppose it's a money saver for hitting price points, I always notice their plastic though, it's so uniquely PlayStation since the PStwo and PS3 slim.

As for colour, anyone going different. If Microsoft do two, they may go black and white. Do you want a new colour for launch PS5?

Grey electronics, time for a return?

hmqgg · Apr 21, 2019

Andromeda said:
That has still not being hyped by MS. One MS leaker here even thinks instant loading stuff showed by Sony is because of GPU decompression tricks and that MS will have the same. Meaning MS won't have almost instant loadings as demoed by Sony but only improved assets decompression.

LOL.

I don't even know what you're talking about when MS is showing the 15+x general loading speed (faster in specific games optimization) with higher compression rate to many of their partners.

NVMe Protocol, GPU Decompression and many more techs are coming, but what are the most important features to consider?

We'll see.

eathdemon · Apr 21, 2019

nolifebr said:
If that were the case, Xone SAD would not cost $250.

there is no point on a gen you have lost, its better to do it at the start of a new gen.

Kuro · Apr 21, 2019

Saint-14 said:
There is no reason to make such a console other than to just tick the power box, if MS haven't thought of this well they could find themselves in a situation where the low end offering is too weak and the high end is too expensive.

Its possible MS were expecting the PS5 and Lockhart to be very similar in specs and Lockhart would be the main console for adoption while Anaconda would be their power enthusiast check box at a lower sales volume. Basically grab the PC crowd as well considering Navi 20 is supposedly 20% more perf than an RTX 2080 for almost half the price. Still $400+ just for the GPU and the TDP is like 230w. Would make the Anaconda a closed system pre built PC like the OG Xbox basically. I don't really buy the rumor but its an interesting thought.

grosbard · Apr 21, 2019

Saint-14 said:
There is no reason to make such a console other than to just tick the power box, if MS haven't thought of this well they could find themselves in a situation where the low end offering is too weak and the high end is too expensive.

I guarantee they have thought about that. I'm thinking they aren't trying to build the most expensive box they can, they just want something noticeably more powerful than the ps5.

RevengeTaken · Apr 21, 2019

Am I missing something in last 7-8 pages?!

JustP_Gaming · Apr 21, 2019

Saint-14 said:
There is no reason to make such a console other than to just tick the power box, if MS haven't thought of this well they could find themselves in a situation where the low end offering is too weak and the high end is too expensive.

That is actually a really good point.

Kuro · Apr 21, 2019

RevengeTaken said:
Am I missing something in last 7-8 pages?!

Only viable info imo is Nextbox's memory setup. Looks like they're going with GDDR6 and a chip to help with latency for the OS and other features when they need the RAM. Remains to be seen if it would be less or more effective than HBM+DDR4 with HBCC.

hmqgg · Apr 21, 2019

anexanhume said:
So are you saying the RCC mentioned in the tweet I quoted is correct, or just the part about HBM? Because this other "leak" references RCC too.

EDIT: To make sure everyone pumps the brakes here, I don't know if that tweet is the first time hmqgg has seen Arden referenced in the context of PCI-ID. If that's the only thing they're confirming, that's not much and not anything some of us already didn't know.

The specs.

RevengeTaken · Apr 21, 2019

Kuro said:
Only viable info imo is Nextbox's memory setup. Looks like they're going with GDDR6 and a chip to help with latency for the OS and other features when they need the RAM. Remains to be seen if it would be less or more effective than HBM+DDR4 with HBCC.

Ok thanks

jelly · Apr 21, 2019

I hope Microsoft don't mess up with the memory. Make it easy for devs.

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE

Overall maximum teraflops for next-gen launch consoles?

8 teraflops

9 teraflops

12 teraflops

14 teraflops

Team ALL THE WAY UP +14 teraflops

10 teraflops (because for some reason I put 9 instead of 10)

User requested account closure

#TeamThierry