Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE

[zedox]

I'm more interested to know how Anaconda is expected/aiming to be more powerful/advanced than PS5 when no real numbers were given on either side. Also, how is Cerny lying about the SSD load times when it was actually demoed to the interviewer?

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You can derive the things that MS can differentiate themselves from Sony on things that they have shown publicly...stuff like DirectML (AI, which Phil talked about) that Sony COULD do but we don't know. It's just that MS has more knowledge in using Machine Learning techniques than Sony. That's an area where I personally would say there will be a difference...and that is also with hardware.

 

[Bradbatross]

My theory is that Microsoft was caught off guard about the implementation of SSD in the PS5. A likely NVMe chip over PCIe 4.0 speeds. I believe that the talk we've heard about MS having an SSD in the Xbox Scarlett was that it was just going to be a 2.5" standard SSD over SATA.

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This seems unlikely lol since hmqgg confirmed MS was using a NVMe SSD before Sony even announced it.

 

[grosbard]

My theory is that Microsoft was caught off guard about the implementation of SSD in the PS5. A likely NVMe chip over PCIe 4.0 speeds. I believe that the talk we've heard about MS having an SSD in the Xbox Scarlett was that it was just going to be a 2.5" standard SSD over SATA.

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O..ok? Lol, and why do you say that?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

There are plenty of posts that aren't constructive in this thread but you chose mine? I'm baffled at why? Oh wait, no i'm not. Seeing how people talked about brad and all of a sudden turn their attitude once he's actually "here" is funny, which is something someone else said as well. Yea, it's not surprising I've taken this stance as I have "defended" Brad as a legitimate reporter unlike people who are in this very thread who basically try to downplay his information. Continue on with the next-gen discussion. I won't comment further on your reply.

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Honestly, zedox. Brad is a big boy and I'm sure he doesn't need posters here like you rushing in to defend him against all the warm welcoming posts:

Welcome to the thread!

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Hi Brad,

Nice to see you posting here.

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Thanks for confirming the veracity of my quote and ofc welcome to the forum!

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Thanks for any insight you can share Brad, as the rest of us are basically just wandering the desert and throwing out crazy stuff with no "sources" of any kind, LOL.

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Nah I appreciate the work you do. Don't let our frustrations get yoh down. Half of us are starving for clarity

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Pretty cool you are here, hope the few bad apples don't run you off in short order.

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Welcome Brad,i'm glad you joined us!

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This is very interesting also your vids are always great to watch. good job.

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I think you're focussing too much on the tiny handful of posters who have been critical of the subject of Brad's posts and previous comments.

The signal to noise ratio in this thread has been pretty high. You coming in and painting the thread as if its a den of vipers isn't reflective of the reality of the discussion and doesn't contribute anything.

 

[THRILLHO]

Here's the problem with this...in what ways is it more powerful - is it TFLOPS, more RAM, higher clock speed, faster BUS speed, all of the above? - we don't fully know yet.

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sorry Brad, a videogame forum is no place for nuance.

 

[Deleted member 135]

This seems unlikely lol since hmqgg confirmed MS was using a NVMe SSD before Sony even announced it.

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Insiders rarely get accurate and up to date info, that may very well have been about the PS5. Best to wait for official sources rather than run around chasing snipes with insiders.

 

[Saint-14]

Eh, I don't really buy that MS will price match the PS5 with Anaconda and it'll be more powerful, assuming Sony takes a $100 loss on each console that means MS will take more than that which is crazy to believe.

 

[Toumari]

Here's the problem with this...in what ways is it more powerful - is it TFLOPS, more RAM, higher clock speed, faster BUS speed, all of the above? - we don't fully know yet.

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To be fair, if it's not known how it will be more powerful then surely there's a chance that it won't be?

 

[Bradbatross]

Insiders rarely get accurate and up to date info, that may very well have been about the PS5. Best to wait for official sources rather than run around chasing snipes with insiders.

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Again this seems unlikely.... He's a verified poster who clearly knows inside info about Xbox and has stated he doesn't know much about Sony.

 

[ImGumbyDammit]

I could see that happening with gold.

I reckon that's what PS+ premium will be too, if it's actually a thing. An instance of your PS4/PS5 in the cloud that you can stream to whatever.

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My understanding from the leaked of PSPlus Premium is just access to alpha/betas and access to create private servers. It looks more like an Insiders program than anything else. I deinietely have not seen any mention that Premium includes PSNow. I think Sony will do something similar to GP Ultimate it just hasn't been mentioned as part ofPSPlus Premium. The same developer that leaked info about Premium also said that PS5 would be revealed (teased) Q2. That happened so I guess his Premium leak must have a lot more merit now too.

 

['V']

Brad has sold me on the Anaconda. Same price as PS5 but potentially more powerful in some way sounds mint.

Not a fan of the $200 console though.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Insiders rarely get accurate and up to date info, that may very well have been about the PS5. Best to wait for official sources rather than run around chasing snipes with insiders.

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Not to sound confrontational but, hold-up, weren't you the one complaining about posters calling insiders liars (which they weren't) because they doubted some of their claims, and now you're caught doing the exact same thing you were condemning others for because the insider info doesn't fit with your own speculation?

 

[HeWhoWalks]

What the hell is a teraflop

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Cores*Clocks*2 (FLOPS)/1 Trillion. So, for example, the Titan Xp has 12.15 of FP32 (float) performance, right? That's 3840 Cores*1582 [1,582,000,000] (Boost Clock)*2 FLOPS per clock cycle /1,000,000,000,000 = 12.14976 (12.15 teraflops).

It's as simple as that (though hardly something people should use when talking about actual performance, but it has become a major buzzword in console gaming of late). Makes sense in that instance because it shows you how much more improved a machine is versus the previous, but cannot give you a full scope of the bigger picture.

 

[Deleted member 40133]

Eh, I don't really buy that MS will price match the PS5 with Anaconda and it'll be more powerful, assuming Sony takes a $100 loss on each console that means MS will take more than that which is crazy to believe.

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To be fair, if it's not known how it will be more powerful then surely there's a chance that it won't be?

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And here again is the problem. At this point the only Avenue left to "garauntee" more power is to take a bigger loss. Which is an interesting bet, because as Penello said in the old thread, just because MS can take a big loss and be okay with it doesn't mean Xbox could do that (paraphrasing)

 

[Deleted member 135]

Not to sound confrontational but, hold-up, weren't you the one complaining about posters calling insiders liars (which they weren't) because they doubted some of their claims, and now you're caught doing the exact same thing you were condemning other for because the insider info doesn't fit with your own speculation?

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Maybe, I don't even remember what I ate for breakfast.

Regardless, I'm so over the masturbation over "insiders" leaking tidbits of unverifiable statements (or making claims so general or common sense it seems too easy to believe) on forums and Twitter and shit now. Either bring it to Jason Schreier and get it verified or bring more evidence to the table.

 

[Deleted member 4976]

Eh, I don't really buy that MS will price match the PS5 with Anaconda and it'll be more powerful, assuming Sony takes a $100 loss on each console that means MS will take more than that which is crazy to believe.

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You don't have to buy it, because as has been demonstrated, all that is being said so far is the "intentions" of MS.

No one knows anything for certain. This all reads as nothing more than elaborate PR.

 

[Deleted member 12635]

And here again is the problem. At this point the only Avenue left to "garauntee" more power is to take a bigger loss. Which is an interesting bet, because as Penello said in the old thread, just because MS can take a big loss and be okay with it doesn't mean Xbox could do that (paraphrasing)

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There are no problems, only solutions!

 

[gofreak]

sorry Brad, a videogame forum is no place for nuance.

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If it's that nuanced, I'd say Microsoft should be careful about setting up those expectations through messaging or leaks or whatever.

Afterall, Xbox One was more powerful than PS4 across some metrics/dimensions.

The crux of their technical marketing last time was to focus on those dimensions, to try to prove a case as to why their machine was better - even in the face of PS4's clearly better specs - while ignoring or brushing aside the areas it was less powerful on.

MS can't afford to set expectations again based on cherry picked metrics. I presume they're actually only sending these signals because they do indeed expect Anaconda to be overall more powerful, or more powerful on enough metrics such that it will typically give better perf.

(For whatever signals about their own expectations count for, at least...and they clearly do count for something among some)

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Cores*Clocks*2 (FLOPS)/1 Trillion. So, for example, the Titan Xp has 12.15 of FP32 (float) performance, right? That's 3840 Cores*1582 [1,582,000,000] (Boost Clock)*2 FLOPS per clock cycle /1,000,000,000,000 = 12.14976 (12.15).

It's as simple as that (though hardly something people should use when talking about actual performance, but it has become a major buzzword in console gaming of late). Makes sense in that instance because it shows you how much more improved a machine is versus the previous, but cannot give you a full scope of the bigger picture.

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Considering the coming generation of console GPUs will derive from the same family of GPU microarchitectures, i.e. GCN, I'd very much agree that the TerraFLOPS metric is a useful measure of performance improvement over the previous generation (more modern architectural advancements notwithstanding).

Maybe, I don't even remember what I ate for breakfast.

Regardless, I'm so over the masturbation over "insiders" leaking tidbits of unverifiable statements (or making claims so general or common sense it seems too easy to believe) on forums and Twitter and shit now. Either bring it to Jason Schreier and get it verified or bring more evidence to the table.

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Can't really argue with this.

There are no problems, only solutions!

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Not to be pedantic, but you can't be a solution if you're not solving a problem ;-)

If it's that nuanced, I'd say Microsoft should be careful about setting up those expectations through messaging or leaks or whatever.

Afterall, Xbox One was more powerful than PS4 across some metrics/dimensions.

The crux of their technical marketing last time was to focus on those dimensions, to try to prove a case as to why their machine was better - even in the face of PS4's clearly better specs - while ignoring or brushing aside the areas it was less powerful on.

MS can't afford to set expectations again based on cherry picked metrics. I presume they're actually only sending these signals because they do indeed expect Anaconda to be overall more powerful, or more powerful on enough metrics such that it will typically give better perf.

(For whatever signals about their own expectations count for, at least...and they clearly do count for something among some)

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TBF, all the messaging hasn't even been from MS so far.

Once E3 rolls around we'll see how MS approaches their messaging concerning next-gen.

I think everyone can at least agree that it'll far better than last time (as long as they keep Yusuf Mehdi away from making any public statements).

 

[Gohlad]

Here's the problem with this...in what ways is it more powerful - is it TFLOPS, more RAM, higher clock speed, faster BUS speed, all of the above? - we don't fully know yet.

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To be fair, if it's not known how it will be more powerful then surely there's a chance that it won't be?

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Wait, so even insiders don't know what's actually more powerful about the next gen xbox?

Then on what basis do they make the claim that it is more powerful than the PS5??

That could totally just mean that the next Xbox is more powerful...in its cooling...

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

Then on what basis do they make the claim that it is more powerful than the PS5??

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Hopes and dreams.

 

[gofreak]

Wait, so even insiders don't know what's actually more powerful about the next gen xbox?

Then on what basis do they make the claim that it is more powerful than the PS5??

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In fairness to Brad Sams, he's not making that claim - he's reporting that Microsoft expects it to be. And in fairness to Brad Sams again, he's being clear that it's not clear to him if MS expects it to be more powerful overall or on some subset of fronts.

Klobrille was more unequivocal in his claims, IIRC, so perhaps the question is better put to him.

 

[Sqrt]

I fully believe that MS is aiming for Anaconda to be more powerful than the PS5. And I believe they have the means to do it.

 

[Bradbatross]

In fairness to Brad Sams, he's not making that claim - he's reporting that Microsoft expects it to be. And in fairness to Brad Sams again, he's being clear that it's not clear to him if MS expects it to be more powerful overall or on some subset of fronts.

Klobrille was more unequivocal in his claims, IIRC, so perhaps the question is better put to him.

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Klobrille said something similar, that MS aims to have the clearly more powerful console.

 

[sleepr]

Wait, so even insiders don't know what's actually more powerful about the next gen xbox?

Then on what basis do they make the claim that it is more powerful than the PS5??

That could totally just mean that the next Xbox is more powerful...in its cooling...

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Phil Spencer said it at E3. Next-box confirmed as more powerful.

 

[Wandu]

You can derive the things that MS can differentiate themselves from Sony on things that they have shown publicly...stuff like DirectML (AI, which Phil talked about) that Sony COULD do but we don't know. It's just that MS has more knowledge in using Machine Learning techniques than Sony. That's an area where I personally would say there will be a difference...and that is also with hardware.

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Well that's the kind of stuff that I mean. Even the things that MS has shown publicly, hasn't been fully integrated into Xbox as of today, but can certainly work for Anaconda/Lockhart. However, saying "we don't know" what Sony is doing in those fields, let alone hardware, cannot come to a definitive outcome of the next Xbox being more advanced.

 

[bcatwilly]

Obviously none of us can know with certainly that Xbox will have a more powerful console to start next gen, but it is definitely reasonable that this could be the case given the following:

• The Xbox One X may have been a year later and $100 more, but there was some engineering in that thing with the cooling in particular that would bode well for them to maximize performance in a next generation console design. Digital Foundry certainly recognized this fact.
• Phil Spencer has openly talked about leading power since the X released, including around E3 last year when first mentioning next generation hardware.
• Apparent Microsoft documents seem to clearly indicate their vision/goal to have the most poweful/best performing console. That doesn't mean that Sony couldn't have a similar goal as a company, but this means that a very large company that has increased investments into gaming has likely gone formally on record internally with that as a goal.

To me it will be interesting if Microsoft continues to message power at E3 when discussing anything about next generation hardware.

 

[kungfuian]

Microsoft's claims they are aiming to be more powerful or more advanced seems like non-sense. Of course they want to be more powerful. That's like saying we aim to be the market leader. Completely meaningless non-sense unless they know the PS5 specs, price their system higher, or eat a bigger loss.

In reality both consoles will likely have strengths and weakness relative to each other and it will be an apples to oranges comparison of these features; with each platform holder trying to convince you that apples are better than oranges and so on and so forth...

Also just a hunch, but wouldn't be surprised for Sony to message 'power' of PS5 in an attempt to lure Microsft into a false power war leading up to launch, and then in reality come with a more modest system and undercut them on price by $100. I know we all want high end features and specs and all but I think $400 or $450 is way more important than premium specs for a mass market platform and I think Sony knows this.

I think the real question not being entertained will be how close lockhart and ps5 are in price and features.

 

[nekkid]

In fairness to Brad Sams, he's not making that claim - he's reporting that Microsoft expects it to be. And in fairness to Brad Sams again, he's being clear that it's not clear to him if MS expects it to be more powerful overall or on some subset of fronts.

Klobrille was more unequivocal in his claims, IIRC, so perhaps the question is better put to him.

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Might also be worth clarifying with Nibel about what they saw from Klobrille. Not a mention of what it is exactly, but clearly their comment means there was some weight to their comment on legitimacy, because "proof they're aiming for it to be better" means almost nothing on its own, and yet they seemed to be surprised by what they saw.

 

[Splader]

Maybe, I don't even remember what I ate for breakfast.

Regardless, I'm so over the masturbation over "insiders" leaking tidbits of unverifiable statements (or making claims so general or common sense it seems too easy to believe) on forums and Twitter and shit now. Either bring it to Jason Schreier and get it verified or bring more evidence to the table.

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Can't say I understand this mentality. The one of the major point of "leaks" and "rumors" is to facilitate discussion amongst the enthusiasts, us. If every little thing was "verified" we wouldn't have a thread, or a discussion. We'd just have a spreadsheet. What's the fun in that?

 

[Pheonix]

This right here is whats so crucial. (Didnt quote Brad directly because i dont want to flood his notifications.)

The fact that MS has to match Sony's price point with Anaconda makes it VERY difficulty for them to outdo Sony when it comes to raw specs.

Assuming both Sony and MS are going for a 7nm Navi APU retailing for $500, how will MS figure out how to get more tflops into a box when Sony and AMD cant?

If anything it's Sony who seems to be thinking outside the box with the inclusion of HBM2 ram reducing the overall TDP and overclocking the GPU to beat MS. Though it's entirely possible that the reddit leak got it wrong and it was MS who thought of the whole HBM2 workaround.

I think it was fine to assume that MS would have the most powerful box when we all assumed Sony was either launching at $399 or in Spring 2020. Since both of those scenarios appear unlikely, i just dont see how MS could release a console at the same time, for the same price but with better specs. Both Sony and MS should be taking a $100 loss on every console anyway. Surely MS isnt willing to take a $200 loss.

Lastly, the only way i think MS can have a sizeable spec advantage is if they are working with AMD on the Arcturus 7nm chip instead of the Navi chip all this time. now that would be a megaton.

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And I have been singing the same song for a while.

People seem to think MS will have a console more expensive than the PS5. They won't. That will be generational suicide on their part. MS can hardly compete with a Playstation console at the same price and some think they will somehow deem it wise to come in at a more expensive price?

And I have also been saying that both consoles are probably fixing to make a $500 console. And when both are spending around the same amount of money, sourcing components from the same vendors, there will be very little either can do to differentiate themselves if they plan on launching within 6 months of each other. MS real trump card or next gen is Lockhart,nt the snek.

 

[gofreak]

Klobrille said something similar, that MS aims to have the clearly more powerful console.

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Ah, ok. Although I've seen claims that he offered more 'proof' of the claim - or was that just proof of how he might know that 'MS expects that'? Which are two rather different things.

 

[Deleted member 135]

Can't say I understand this mentality. The one of the major point of "leaks" and "rumors" is to facilitate discussion amongst the enthusiasts, us. If every little thing was "verified" we wouldn't have a thread, or a discussion. We'd just have a spreadsheet. What's the fun in that?

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There is a difference between what "insiders" have been doing the past year and stuff gleaned from patents, datamined from benchmarking tools, talked about to reputable journalists, and so on.

 

[Albert Penello]

Man I am bookmarking so many posts right now :)

I wonder if the smart move for Sony is to ditch the PS4 base and make the Pro the new low-end. 4tflop Pro for $299, 8tflop PS5 for $399 would be super compelling, if BC works as well as everyone hopes and even moreso if they sort out cross-buy.

 

[zedox]

Well that's the kind of stuff that I mean. Even the things that MS has shown publicly, hasn't been fully integrated into Xbox as of today, but can certainly work for Anaconda/Lockhart. However, saying "we don't know" what Sony is doing in those fields, let alone hardware, cannot come to a definitive outcome of the next Xbox being more advanced.

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Nothing is definitive obviously. And no, it hasn't been fully integrated in Xbox as of today, but nothing is ever promised just because we have it today. Look at this gen, we didn't have BC in PS4 at all and that should have been expected with the history that Sony had. So you can't always (and I emphasis always...cuz some things you safely assume) judge what's going to happen based on things that are happening now. I'm sure you know that (it's like a "duh" type of comment...not trying to demean you or anything, just explaining). What you can look at is intent and clues intelligently by looking at what the companies are doing.

 

[Saint-14]

Ah, ok. Although I've seen claims that he offered more 'proof' of the claim - or was that just proof of how he might know that 'MS expects that'? Which are two rather different things.

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He just provided proof about MS aiming to have the most powerful console, nothing about it actually being more powerful than the PS5, he literally said he knows nothing about it.

 

[Bradbatross]

Ah, ok. Although I've seen claims that he offered more 'proof' of the claim - or was that just proof of how he might know that 'MS expects that'? Which are two rather different things.

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https://www.resetera.com/threads/xb...plays-we-all-win.94058/page-307#post-19895166
https://www.resetera.com/threads/xb...plays-we-all-win.94058/page-308#post-19896368
Nibel's response makes it seem like the proof was pretty interesting.

 

[Kiekura]

It dropped to $199 with Spider-Man and the only thing that stopped it from selling more was that the channels simply ran out. If the MSRP on the new model is $199, it will go lower this BF. The question is what game to pack in. Maybe Dreams?

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TLoU 2

 

[Deleted member 4976]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/xb...plays-we-all-win.94058/page-307#post-19895166
https://www.resetera.com/threads/xb...plays-we-all-win.94058/page-308#post-19896368
Nibel's response makes it seem like the proof was pretty interesting.

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The proof is still about MS's "goals" rather than anything concrete specs wise.

At this point, we have no confirmation from insiders or otherwise, as to which is stronger.

 

[Wandu]

Nothing is definitive obviously. And no, it hasn't been fully integrated in Xbox as of today, but nothing is ever promised just because we have it today. Look at this gen, we didn't have BC in PS4 at all and that should have been expected with the history that Sony had. So you can't always (and I emphasis always...cuz some things you safely assume) judge what's going to happen based on things that are happening now. I'm sure you know that (it's like a "duh" type of comment...not trying to demean you or anything, just explaining). What you can look at is intent and clues intelligently by looking at what the companies are doing.

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That I can agree with you on

 

[Expy]

Man I am bookmarking so many posts right now :)

I wonder if the smart move for Sony is to ditch the PS4 base and make the Pro the new low-end. 4tflop Pro for $299, 8tflop PS5 for $399 would be super compelling, if BC works as well as everyone hopes and even moreso if they sort out cross-buy.

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Talking about bookmark worthy posts.... 8TF PS5...

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Man I am bookmarking so many posts right now :)

I wonder if the smart move for Sony is to ditch the PS4 base and make the Pro the new low-end. 4tflop Pro for $299, 8tflop PS5 for $399 would be super compelling, if BC works as well as everyone hopes and even moreso if they sort out cross-buy.

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Well I said this too before but since Lockheart will be almost similar in power, Sony may consider it after all. Who knows.

 

[Bradbatross]

The proof is still about MS's "goals" rather than anything concrete specs wise.

At this point, we have no confirmation from insiders or otherwise, as to which is stronger.

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Well yea, obviously he didn't give Nibel the specs of Anaconda and PS5 lol, but we don't know what the proof actually is. Either way, Nibel seemed to find it interesting.

 

[gofreak]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/xb...plays-we-all-win.94058/page-307#post-19895166
https://www.resetera.com/threads/xb...plays-we-all-win.94058/page-308#post-19896368
Nibel's response makes it seem like the proof was pretty interesting.

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To me that reads like proof of identity or something. Rather than proof that the 'aim' will be achieved.

So as far as both those go, that's fair enough, I'd put them both in the category of reporting an expectation or aim rather than claiming any verification or knowledge of what's actually going on.

 

[BitsandBytes]

Wait guys...We need to get one thing straight. Is it Lockhart or Lockheart? I'm camp Lockhart.

 

[sleepr]

Are there any sony insiders in this forum? All seem to be connected to MS.

 

[Toumari]

Phil Spencer said it at E3. Next-box confirmed as more powerful.

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I forgot he said that. That's all the evidence I needed.

 

[Saint-14]

Are there any sony insiders in this forum?

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Those mythical creatures don't exist.

 

[Deleted member 4976]

Well yea, obviously he didn't give Nibel the specs of Anaconda and PS5 lol, but we don't know what the proof actually is. Either way, Nibel seemed to find it interesting.

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Right, what I'm saying is that while the proof can be interesting, what he was "proving" by itself isn't that interesting.

Saying that MS "aims for anaconda to be stronger than the PS5" isn't being proved here, so whatever Nibel found interesting doesn't amount to much for the underlying claim.

 

[electric_hoax]

And I have been singing the same song for a while.

People seem to think MS will have a console more expensive than the PS5. They won't. That will be generational suicide on their part. MS can hardly compete with a Playstation console at the same price and some think they will somehow deem it wise to come in at a more expensive price?

And I have also been saying that both consoles are probably fixing to make a $500 console. And when both are spending around the same amount of money, sourcing components from the same vendors, there will be very little either can do to differentiate themselves if they plan on launching within 6 months of each other. MS real trump card or next gen is Lockhart,nt the snek.

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Maybe they thought PS5 is indeed out in 2019 (lots of folks expected that aswell ).