Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE

[modiz]

The discussion about how ssd price is expected to drop and hdd isnt is very interesting.
Because it reminds me of the hbm+ddr4 rumor. It mentioned how sony are counting on HBM prices going down over time faster than gddr6 to save costs in the future iirc.
Would be interesting if sony are going all in on expensive components with the assumption their prices will fall. Might mean sony will take a bigger loss on launch from the assumption they could regain that as the gen goes on.

 

[chris 1515]

The discussion about how ssd price is expected to drop and hdd isnt is very interesting.
Because it reminds me of the hbm+ddr4 rumor. It mentioned how sony are counting on HBM prices going down over time faster than gddr6 to save costs in the future iirc.
Would be interesting if sony are going all in on expensive components with the assumption their prices will fall. Might mean sony will take a bigger loss on launch from the assumption they could regain that as the gen goes on.

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But GDDR6 is not cheap, it is cheaper than HBM2 but if the rumor is true what is interesing it 8Gb of HBM2 cost only 35% to 40% of 8 Gb of GDDR6. It means the other part of the memory is cheaper than 16Gb of GDDR6. I don't know is someone has the cost of GDDR6 and I remember someone told than a discount for mass ordering of RAM is 20 to 40% of the spot price. I am not sure the solution is more expensive than 24 Gb of GDDR6 maybe cheaper.

 

[Deleted member 20297]

New Redit Leak

PS5 Details and Launch

• $449/€449/£399.
• ~12-13TF.
• 24GB RAM.
• 2TB storage (SSD + custom).
• BC with all previous Playstations.
• Minor changes to DS5, also has IR camera.
• Launches worldwide September 2020.
• PSVR2 coming later.

• Big first party year 1 games are Gran Turismo and Horizon 2. GT will launch with the console. There's other titles for year 1, but these are the two "big" ones at the reveal event.
• Japan Studio will be at launch with a new IP, will also be shown off at event, but they have begun work on a AAA title too.
• San Diego is the only other first party studio planned to appear at the event.

• No plans for any upcoming PS4 first party titles to be cross gen at release.
• All of Ghost, TLOU2, and Death Stranding are planned to release by mid-2020 as PS4 games.
• TLOU2 late 2019, Ghost early 2020, and Death Stranding after that, barring any delays.
• No PS5 versions are decided at the moment. Focus is on delivering the PS4 versions. Discussions about how to proceed with hypothetical PS5 versions - if you launch a significantly upgraded PS5 game for retail/digital in year 1, then letting PS4 owners pay a small upgrade fee since the PS4 disc is usable and playable on PS5 anyway seems to be favored route. Alternatively, you just play the normal PS4 disc on the PS5.

• Square Enix will be at reveal event with Luminous Production new IP (RPG) and Final Fantasy 16.
• FF16 was originally planned as a current gen title but due to the screw up with FF7 Remake which delayed it from the planned release of 2018, it was moved to next gen.
• FF7 Remake is not a PS5 release. Current gen only and no plans for a PS5 version right now.
• LP is also making a FF15 PS5 Edition for launch.
• DQXI with added content will be on PS5.
• Capcom, Warner Bros, and Rockstar (RDR2 next gen) will be at the reveal event.

Those are the only things confirmed for now as planning is underway.

Click to shrink...

That is as believable as the shame_pain leak.

 

[Bundy]

Pack it up guys and gals, there's no use in speculating anymore... Pachter thinks the PS5 will come in at $300!

Click to shrink...

 

[modiz]

But GDDR6 is not cheap, it is cheaper than HBM2 but if the rumor is true what is interesing it 8Gb of HBM2 cost only 35% to 40% of 8 Gb of GDDR6. It means the other part of the memory is cheaper than 16Gb of GDDR6. I don't know is someone has the cost of GDDR6 and I remember someone told than a discount for mass ordering of RAM is 20 to 40% of the spot price. I am not sure the solution is more expensive than 24 Gb of GDDR6 maybe cheaper.

Click to shrink...

And not only it might be cheaper but the price delta might get even larger as time goes on. That was my point. This could lead to sony having better pricing throughout the gen compared to the high end model.

 

[DrKeo]

The discussion about how ssd price is expected to drop and hdd isnt is very interesting.
Because it reminds me of the hbm+ddr4 rumor. It mentioned how sony are counting on HBM prices going down over time faster than gddr6 to save costs in the future iirc.
Would be interesting if sony are going all in on expensive components with the assumption their prices will fall. Might mean sony will take a bigger loss on launch from the assumption they could regain that as the gen goes on.

Click to shrink...

SSDs dropped in price because of oversupply, we are reaching an equilibrium in the SSD market so they won't drop much more than their current price, about 10c per GB. People keep quoting articles from 10 months ago about the expected SSD price drops without even realizing that we are already at the end tail of that drop. a 2TB SSD will probably be too expensive for a console unless one of the platform holders is willing to spend the money on that.

 

[chris 1515]

You don't need to play the long game cost-wise regarding storage, it's not a CPU or GPU which needs to stay more or less the same the whole generation. You will have model refreshes and different storage solutions over the generation, just like any other generation. If starting the generation with a 256GB SSD + 2TB HDD makes sense cost-wise, if 3 years later a 2TB SSD will make more sense than the "S" or "slim" will have a 2TB SSD instead. As long as you upgrade over the years instead of downgrade, it will be fine. Right now 2TB SSD is way too expensive, 4 times more expensive than the 500GB HDD the PS4 and XBO had in 2013 so 1TB is probably the only option for a full SSD storage solution. Right now the retail cost of a 1TB SSD VS a 256GB SSD + 2TB HDD is the same. Will it stay cost the same in 18 months? I don't know, but right now going full SSD with just 1TB storage, that's pretty small and limiting for the end user, it might even create a media backlash.

Right now the X has only 780GB available for games and apps out of its' 1TB drive. Games that are X Enhanced are ~100GB so a lot of next-gen games will probably be bigger than that. We are pretty sure that Halo Infinite and Forza 8 will be launch titles, installing Forza 7 and Halo 5 will take up to 200GB of your X HDD and that is before DLC, so I'm pretty confident that Forza 8 and Halo Infinite will take more than ~1/3 of your HDD on launch day. Do you remember all the stories about "XBO-X HDD is too small"? Like this one, this one or this one? If next-gen launches with 1TB SSD it will be even worse.

Cache drive is the most logical option. Microsoft is already halfway there with their DL project Fast Start which uses DL to prioritize game blocks for early download in order for games to launch faster while downloading. That kind of project is perfectly suited for a DL system that smartly caches partial game data on the SSD from your main 2TB HDD or external drive. It also allows for the use of external drives and cheap HDD upgrades.

And just one remark regarding SSD price drops, we've already seen the lion's share of their price drop. The biggest factor in that trend was oversupply so don't expect SSD prices to drop much lower than 10c per GB, a price they are pretty close to right now.

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But you can have some version staying at 1Tb and other version at 2Tb or more... And we have external HDD storage now for Playstation console too. I don't believe in HDD + SSD solution.And if it was the case, I don't believe in SSD as caching solution because of streaming. The solution Cerny talk about include faster downlaod and streaming...

But it works even without NAND flash price continue to fall much more, they can stay the same price. the problem will be the same.

 

[Andromeda]

But you can have some version staying at 1Tb and other version at 2Tb or more... And we have external HDD storage now for Playstation console too. I don't believe in HDD + SSD solution.And if it was the case, I don't belive in SSD as caching solution because of streaming. The solution Cerny talk about include faster downlaod and streaming...

But it works even without NAND flash price continue to fall much more, they can stay the same price. the problem will be the same.

Click to shrink...

Without HDD + custom SSD configuration, you can say good bye to optionnal external HDDs. If people want 4 TB of games on their PS5, well I guess they'll have to...buy 4TB SSD as fast as the SSD inside the PS5. Most won't do it and PS5 will be stuck with 1TB of content (well less than that) for years.

No. HDD + SSD ultra fast cache is the ideal solution.

 

[Pheonix]

These are a lot of words while trying to say nothing and repeat other stuff as well (FP launch windows is almost copied from jasons comment on kotaku for example.)

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I am not saying its true, but at this point is there really anything that anyone can say that wouldn't sound copied in some way? Like every possible scenario has been mentioned in these threads alone. Only thing that hasn't really been speculated on in these threads is what kinda screws they are going to use in the consoles.

 

[modiz]

Without HDD + custom SSD configuration, you can say good bye to optionnal external HDDs. If people want 4 TB of games on their PS5, well I guess they'll have to...buy 4TB SSD as fast as the SSD inside the PS5. Most won't do it and PS5 will be stuck with 1TB of content (well less than that) for years.

No. HDD + SSD ultra fast cache is the ideal solution.

Click to shrink...

You will just need to replace games between the external HDD and the internal ssd, whether by a manual software or a feature that automatically replaces them based off recently played titles.

 

[Andromeda]

You will just need to replace games between the external HDD and the internal ssd, whether by a manual software or a feature that automatically replaces them based off recently played titles.

Click to shrink...

A console is not a PC and that seems like a hassle. People buy consoles specifically to avoid that. And copying 100 GB of data takes time.

 

[chris 1515]

You will just need to replace games between the external HDD and the internal ssd, whether by a manual software or a feature that automatically replaces them based off recently played titles.

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Exactly, I don't think we will see HDD out of being a simple storage solution.

 

[BreakAtmo]

Games that are X Enhanced are ~100GB so a lot of next-gen games will probably be bigger than that.

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Keep in mind that not only are the X-exclusive high-res textures patched in on top of the normal base mode textures, but many of those games probably take advantage of asset duplication to mitigate slow HDD speeds. Next-gen games will not need either of these measures, due to being base versions themselves and having guaranteed super-fast SSDs. Given how the asset duplication discussed in the Spider-Man GDC talk accounts for about 10GB of a 48GB game, and the possibility that the patched-in 4K textures may use asset duplication themselves, I have no doubt that those X-Enhanced game sizes are grossly inflated. Next-gen games will probably fit fine on 100GB discs.

 

[modiz]

A console is not a PC and that seems like a hassle. People buy consoles specifically to avoid that. And copying 100 GB of data takes time.

Click to shrink...

Here is the thing, after the first initial game loading, you will not need to worry about this loading every next time you start the game as long as the game stays on the ssd. Meanwhile with your solution, the ssd will erase the game content every time you close the game, meaning you will have long starting loading every time you start the game

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

I mean.. maybe. But Xbox BC indeed does not touch the code at all. And yet, Xbox has not chosen to try to release all games, even though we know that there are some games that they've tested and verified but not released. It's possible MS is just trying to keep up relationships or is playing it safe legally, but I think it's likely that it simply isn't that easy. I'm sure no one making deals for 360 were planning ahead to software emulation next gen. There's no way they would have possibly expected that. As a result, I believe that technically MS has to republish all of those games onto the Xbox One themselves to some degree, meaning that licensing must be updated to reflect that.

We'll see whether or not all Xbox ONE games are automatically BC next gen.

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XB360 to XB1 BC suffers from the significant hardware architectural difference between the 360's 3+GHz In Order Execution PPC Xenon cores and XB1's 1.6GHz OoOE x86 Jaguar cores. The differences in instruction set architectures and processor speeds mean full clock for clock emulation is impossible. MS thus had to resort to providing per game "emulation" wrappers which do instruction level translation on the fly.

For some games XB1 is fast enough. For others it doesn't. The games they have tested and verified need to be submitted to the publishers to assess whether the performance is acceptable before they are able to release the BC game + emu wrapper container to the public. So even though they don't change the game code, they're still having to provide a per game emulation wrapper that needs to be tweaked for each and every game.

XB1 to XBNext BC is the same x86-64 ISA and even a new CPU that is more than 3 to 4x faster. So on the CPU side, it's not even technically emulation, as the current gen x86 jaguar game will just run on the new CPU natively (Zen will include all the same instructions as Jaguar, but will just expand them). On the GPU side, both XB1 and Navi will both be GCN so the same GPU ISA and if the LLVM compiler changes for Navi are any indication, it appears AMD have added in a whole host of GPU instructions from GCN2 (XB1/PS4) to Navi to ensure native compatibility on the GPU side also.

I don't believe any rumors with a SSD + HDD. It is a bad idea from a cost perspective. NAND flah cost is falling from a cliff. QLC SSD are currently available at 107 euros without IVA(company don't pay IVA in Europe), if you took the price for some of the logistic*, retailer profit and the packaging for a mass order the cost is probably 50 euros or dollars and SSD are cheaper in US.

https://www.pccomponentes.com/crucial-p1-ssd-1tb-3d-nand-nvme-pcie-m2gclid=EAIaIQobChMI96qqvJGe4gIVSUHTCh0JhwEmEAQYASABEgLE7_D_BwE

For a 512Gb SSD the cost is half the price 25 dollars but you need to add the price of the HDD, HDD have incompressible cost because of mechanical element, an internal 2To HDD cost 70 dollars in retail probably 35 dollars of cost in a console with mass order. The cost of the two elements combined is more expensive than the SSD alone. If you take a 256 Gb SSD the cost is only 12,5 but it is only a few dollars(2,5) under the cost of a SSD 1tb Nvme alone.

The other problem is this incompressible 35 dollars cost for the HDD at the end of the gen. Price of 128 Gb SSD are very low much more than a HDD.

We can imagine a console at less than 199 dollars/euros using only a 1Tb SSD and probably less than 149 euros/dollars at the end of the generation(sure at 100% for a console without bluray).

https://www.pccomponentes.com/kings...MIyfC98MWf4gIVaijTCh05HQahEAQYAyABEgIskvD_BwE

The price is 17 euros without taxes, and without all the element I talke about before I doubt the cost is more than 75% of the final price or maybe 50% of the final price.

NAND flash are supposed to contnue to drop until end of the year.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ssd-prices-drop-2019-prediction,37982.html

* some part are for all the console not only the SSD

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Didn't the reddit leak say "SSD + custom" not HDD?

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

A well managed internal NAND cache would be pretty much invisible to the end user and, no, it wouldn't need copying entire games to it, not even close to that.

When you install a game, initialization files and stuff for the first few moments of the game are loaded to the NAND and always kept there, so games can always start instantaneously. As you play, OS streams stuff from the HDD to the NAND in the background. Any game you played recently keeps whatever it had loaded recently there, so you can go back to it. Any game that has been shunted off NAND just checks where you were when you last played it and loads those files as the game starts. That means you only have a fraction of each game loaded at any given point, so you can have many games simultaneously there.

The only kind of scenario where I can see having the entirety of a game loaded into NAND is with fighting/racing/sports games.

 

[BreakAtmo]

A console is not a PC and that seems like a hassle. People buy consoles specifically to avoid that. And copying 100 GB of data takes time.

Click to shrink...

1: The process would almost certainly be automated, so it would not be a hassle.
2: Not every game is going to be 100GB.
3: Games would most likely be made capable of starting and playing long before every single byte had been transferred - we already have this feature right now.
4: Games will already need to be transferred to the SSD via disc or download when they're purchased anyway, and will be instantly playable until they're taken off the SSD, so this whole scenario wouldn't even be a factor until then (this is a main reason why I'm in favour of a 1TB SSD and letting people buy external HDDs, so the system wouldn't have to move things around so often).
5: BC PS4 games and simple indie games could be run from the HDD if the player wanted.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

A well managed internal NAND cache would be pretty much invisible to the end user and, no, it wouldn't need copying entire games to it, not even close to that.

When you install a game, initialization files and stuff for the first few moments of the game are loaded to the NAND and always kept there, so games can always start instantaneously. As you play, OS streams stuff from the HDD to the NAND in the background. Any game you played recently keeps whatever it had loaded recently there, so you can go back to it. Any game that has been shunted off NAND just checks where you were when you last played it and loads those files as the game starts.

The only kind of scenario where I can see having the entirety of a game loaded into NAND is with fighting/racing/sports games.

Click to shrink...

Even then the entire game data shouldn't even be that much in terms of assets.

 

[modiz]

Also reminding everyone that DF said that before the wired article went up they heard of 1tb ssd.

 

[chris 1515]

XB360 to XB1 BC suffers from the significant hardware architectural difference between the 360's 3+GHz In Order Execution PPC Xenon cores and XB1's 1.6GHz OoOE x86 Jaguar cores. The differences in instruction set architectures and processor speeds mean full clock for clock emulation is impossible. MS thus had to resort to providing per game "emulation" wrappers which do instruction level translation on the fly.

For some games XB1 is fast enough. For others it doesn't. The games they have tested and verified need to be submitted to the publishers to assess whether the performance is acceptable before they are able to release the BC game + emu wrapper container to the public. So even though they don't change the game code, they're still having to provide a per game emulation wrapper that needs to be tweaked for each and every game.

XB1 to XBNext BC is the same x86-64 ISA and even a new CPU that is more than 3 to 4x faster. So on the CPU side, it's not even technically emulation, as the current gen x86 jaguar game will just run on the new CPU natively (Zen will include all the same instructions as Jaguar, but will just expand them). On the GPU side, both XB1 and Navi will both be GCN so the same GPU ISA and if the LLVM compiler changes for Navi are any indication, it appears AMD have added in a whole host of GPU instructions from GCN2 (XB1/PS4) to Navi to ensure native compatibility on the GPU side also.



Didn't the reddit leak say "SSD + custom" not HDD?

Click to shrink...

It depends which reddit leak the one with memory don't give any indication about the storage. It is the only leak I find plausible.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/commen...tion_5_price_leaks_and_it_aint_cheap/ekxsjlv/

memory automatically managed by HBCC and appears as 20 GB to the developers
HBCC manages streaming of game data from storage as well

Click to shrink...

If we have HDD + SSD it will not be a caching solution but an install solution. You will have your most played game on the SDD. And from a cost point of view it made no sense at all. From a technical caching solution means slower loading every time you launch a game and it means you can't use the SSD at its best for streaming.

EDIT: And with Playgo you did not need to wait the end of the install to play. It will be the same things, same for Microsoft solution. And if you want to go faster buy a external SSD. The only credible leak we had I never see anywhere a HDD solution on lockhart or Anaconda, just 1Tb SSD Nvme.

 

[Pheonix]

I don't believe any rumors with a SSD + HDD. It is a bad idea from a cost perspective. NAND flah cost is falling from a cliff. QLC SSD are currently available at 107 euros without IVA(company don't pay IVA in Europe), if you took the price for some of the logistic*, retailer profit and the packaging for a mass order the cost is probably 50 euros or dollars and SSD are cheaper in US.

https://www.pccomponentes.com/cruci...MI96qqvJGe4gIVSUHTCh0JhwEmEAQYASABEgLE7_D_BwE

For a 512Gb SSD the cost is half the price 25 dollars but you need to add the price of the HDD, HDD have incompressible cost because of mechanical element, an internal 2To HDD cost 70 dollars in retail probably 35 dollars of cost in a console with mass order. The cost of the two elements combined is more expensive than the SSD alone. If you take a 256 Gb SSD the cost is only 12,5 but it is only a few dollars(2,5) under the cost of a SSD 1tb Nvme alone.

The other problem is this incompressible 35 dollars cost for the HDD at the end of the gen. Price of 128 Gb SSD are very low much more than a HDD.

We can imagine a console at less than 199 dollars/euros using only a 1Tb SSD and probably less than 149 euros/dollars at the end of the generation(sure at 100% for a console without bluray).

https://www.pccomponentes.com/kings...MIyfC98MWf4gIVaijTCh05HQahEAQYAyABEgIskvD_BwE

The price is 17 euros without taxes, and without all the element I talke about before I doubt the cost is more than 75% of the final price or maybe 50% of the final price.

NAND flash are supposed to contnue to drop until end of the year.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ssd-prices-drop-2019-prediction,37982.html

* some part are for all the console not only the SSD

Click to shrink...

While you are right you are also kinda wrong.

As for the storage solution, it comes down to a simple question. How much will it cost to have 2TB of storage space in the next-gen console with ed and write speeds in excess of 6GB/s (based on what Cerny said)?

Would it be cheaper in 2020 to just have a 2TB NVMe SSD? Or a 240GB/480GB NVMe SSD + 2TB HDD?

Now things to consider is that the SSD will be invisible to the end user and be completely managed by the OS. So you won't even know if you have 240GB or 480GB of SSD space. Also that as the gen progresses, they will remove the HDD altogether and only have the SSD.

But I don't even think any of that I necessary. I think they just go with a 1TB SSD and call it a day. And its size increases a the gen progresses.

 

[Deleted member 12635]

About SSD:
I hope for a solution that is not based on caching on NAND. I would like to have a big single SSD/NVMe. Caching always have a setup phase before you gain the full advantages of the faster storage. About the fastest SSD claim by Sony/Cerny. I can see they make take advantage of something similar to 4xPCIe 4.0 lanes which would be able to provide up to double the speed of todays best consumer NVMe on the market. Or maybe it is a custom solution that uses more lanes than we are used to with PC setups. Unfortunately this kind of information is far away to be shared with the public.

 

[chris 1515]

While you are right you are also kinda wrong.

As for the storage solution, it comes down to a simple question. How much will it cost to have 2TB of storage space in the next-gen console with ed and write speeds in excess of 6GB/s (based on what Cerny said)?

Would it be cheaper in 2020 to just have a 2TB NVMe SSD? Or a 240GB/480GB NVMe SSD + 2TB HDD?

Now things to consider is that the SSD will be invisible to the end user and be completely managed by the OS. So you won't even know if you have 240GB or 480GB of SSD space. Also that as the gen progresses, they will remove the HDD altogether and only have the SSD.

Click to shrink...

But why 2Tb Nvme? I don't believe in 2Tb storage for launch in console but 1Tb on all console Anaconda, Lockhart and PS5.

EDIT: From Klobrille leak, we have 1Tb SSD not 2Tb SSD in Lockhart and Anaconda.

 

[Expy]

But why 2Tb Nvme? I don't believe in 2Tb storage for launch in console but 1Tb on all console Anaconda, Lockhart and PS5.

EDIT: From Klobrille leak, we have 1Tb SSD not 2Tb SSD in Lockhart and Anaconda.

Click to shrink...

Could just be the devkit.

 

[mangochutney]

I don't believe any rumors with a SSD + HDD. It is a bad idea from a cost perspective. NAND flah cost is falling from a cliff. QLC SSD are currently available at 107 euros without IVA(company don't pay IVA in Europe), if you took the price for some of the logistic*, retailer profit and the packaging for a mass order the cost is probably 50 euros or dollars and SSD are cheaper in US.

https://www.pccomponentes.com/cruci...MI96qqvJGe4gIVSUHTCh0JhwEmEAQYASABEgLE7_D_BwE

For a 512Gb SSD the cost is half the price 25 dollars but you need to add the price of the HDD, HDD have incompressible cost because of mechanical element, an internal 2To HDD cost 70 dollars in retail probably 35 dollars of cost in a console with mass order. The cost of the two elements combined is more expensive than the SSD alone. If you take a 256 Gb SSD the cost is only 12,5 but it is only a few dollars(2,5) under the cost of a SSD 1tb Nvme alone.

The other problem is this incompressible 35 dollars cost for the HDD at the end of the gen. Price of 128 Gb SSD are very low much more than a HDD.

We can imagine a console at less than 199 dollars/euros using only a 1Tb SSD and probably less than 149 euros/dollars at the end of the generation(sure at 100% for a console without bluray).

https://www.pccomponentes.com/kings...MIyfC98MWf4gIVaijTCh05HQahEAQYAyABEgIskvD_BwE

The price is 17 euros without taxes, and without all the element I talke about before I doubt the cost is more than 75% of the final price or maybe 50% of the final price.

NAND flash are supposed to contnue to drop until end of the year.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ssd-prices-drop-2019-prediction,37982.html

* some part are for all the console not only the SSD

Click to shrink...

If you are going to use tax-exclusive component pricing then you would need to keep in mind the tax-exclusive console price.

And, as I've previously posted in this thread, SSD prices are tumbling, however this is due to over-supply.

The link you provide in regards to prices falling seems actually dates back further than that particular article. This article from August. It mentions the 8 cents per GB quoted in the article you linked to, but one crucial piece is left out of your article. That being it is a race to the cost-of-production.

if you include discounting we're basically there.

Without knowing previous production costs it is difficult to know if there's much more savings to expect in the short-term, but my expectation would be that SSD price declines will begin to slow in the coming months.

 

[modiz]

But why 2Tb Nvme? I don't believe in 2Tb storage for launch in console but 1Tb on all console Anaconda, Lockhart and PS5.

EDIT: From Klobrille leak, we have 1Tb SSD not 2Tb SSD in Lockhart and Anaconda.

Click to shrink...

The specs on klobrilles sheet were confirmed to be falsified. Not saying its not 1tb ssd as i think it is, but he faked it.

About SSD:
I hope for a solution that is not based on caching on NAND. I would like to have a big single SSD/NVMe. Caching always have a setup phase before you gain the full advantages of the faster storage. About the fastest SSD claim by Sony/Cerny. I can see they make take advantage of something similar to 4xPCIe 4.0 lanes which would be able to provide up to double the speed of todays best consumer NVMe on the market. Or maybe it is a custom solution that uses more lanes than we are used to with PC setups. Unfortunately this kind of information is far away to be shared with the public.

Click to shrink...

What would the bandwidth be in this case compared to now? Insomniac talked in their gdc talk about how people could replace their hdd with a slower one and because of that had to come up with minimum specs and needed to assume it was like 20MB/s iirc.

 

[Andromeda]

Whatever how we spin this, they won't put only 1TB in the PS5. Their latest Playstation models have 2TB. It won't be less than that.

I hope people don't expect games size to be smaller than this gen. Games are going to be bigger because worlds will be bigger, there will be much more geometry, more animations etc. And with Cerny 18 times faster loadings (whatever how he is doing it), devs will use it at their advantage and they'll put more details into their worlds. Much more details.

 

[Yaqza]

I want this new rumour to be true because of that part:

[*]LP is also making a FF15 PS5 Edition for launch.

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... haven't played FFXV yet😎

 

[Bradbatross]

The specs on klobrilles sheet were confirmed to be falsified. Not saying its not 1tb ssd as i think it is, but he faked it.

Click to shrink...

Has that been confirmed?

 

[Kenzodielocke]

The more info a leak has coming from different places, the more fake it is.

 

[Deadlast]

I would be ok with a PCIe M.2 SSD and HDD solution, like we get in some gaming laptops. Especially if I can upgrade both.

 

[MaulerX]

The specs on klobrilles sheet were confirmed to be falsified. Not saying its not 1tb ssd as i think it is, but he faked it.

Click to shrink...

Uh... What? He just re-wrote the same exact info he had so as to not show the original document.

 

[formasymphonic]

Whatever how we spin this, they won't put only 1TB in the PS5. Their latest Playstation models have 2TB. It won't be less than that.

I hope people don't expect games size to be smaller than this gen. Games are going to be bigger because worlds will be bigger, there will be much more geometry, more animations etc. And with Cerny 18 times faster loadings (whatever how he is doing it), devs will use it at their advantage and they'll put more details into their words. Much more details.

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I thought it was only the limited edition models that got 2TB?

 

[modiz]

Has that been confirmed?

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Uh... What? He just re-wrote the same exact info he had so as to not show the original document.

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Colbert confirmed that the marketing bullet points were real but the document klob made this picture from never had specs on them.

 

[Bradbatross]

Colbert confirmed that the marketing bullet points were real but the document klob made this picture from never had specs on them.

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He could have gotten those specs from somewhere else. I don't think there's been any confirmation that those specs are wrong or he made them up.

 

[modiz]

He could have gotten those specs from somewhere else.

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They arent from the document klobrille claimed they are from, thus i am not trusting it.

 

[Bradbatross]

They arent from the document klobrille claimed they are from, thus i am not trusting it.

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Cool, don't claim that it's been confirmed that he falsified the info though lol.

 

[Andromeda]

I thought it was only the limited edition models that got 2TB?

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Not limited. In Japan there is a widely available 2TB Pro.

 

[formasymphonic]

Not limited. In Japan there is a widely available 2TB Pro.

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Any other regions? Here in UK I've only ever seen the limited console at 2TB, everything else was 1TB (though originally 500GB).

 

[More Butter]

They arent from the document klobrille claimed they are from, thus i am not trusting it.

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Klob said where he got the document? He hasn't said any of that openly. I mean, he purposely changed the format as to not indicate the document he saw..Right?

 

[DrKeo]

But you can have some version staying at 1Tb and other version at 2Tb or more... And we have external HDD storage now for Playstation console too. I don't believe in HDD + SSD solution.And if it was the case, I don't belive in SSD as caching solution because of streaming. The solution Cerny talk about include faster downlaod and streaming...

But it works even without NAND flash price continue to fall much more, they can stay the same price. the problem will be the same.

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External storage won't work if games are based on SSD speed. A USB 3.0 external drive will probably be in orders of magnitude too slow to work. I mean you could allow the external drive to act as a backup drive and copy games back and forth but that defeats the purpose of external storage on consoles. A cache drive can do all of the things you are talking about, including downloading and streaming. The OS needs to be smart enough, but if it is then the user will probably never know that they are using a cache drive and not a full SSD.

Keep in mind that not only are the X-exclusive high-res textures patched in on top of the normal base mode textures, but many of those games probably take advantage of asset duplication to mitigate slow HDD speeds. Next-gen games will not need either of these measures, due to being base versions themselves and having guaranteed super-fast SSDs. Given how the asset duplication discussed in the Spider-Man GDC talk accounts for about 10GB of a 48GB game, and the possibility that the patched-in 4K textures may use asset duplication themselves, I have no doubt that those X-Enhanced game sizes are grossly inflated. Next-gen games will probably fit fine on 100GB discs.

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Yes, they can get rid of asset duplication (10GB on the spider-man install) but animations will be much more diverse and complicated (10GB of the spider-man install), shaders will be more complicated (1.5GB on the spider-man install), zones will be more detailed (2.8GB on the spider-man install) and models will be far more detailed (6GB on the spider-man install). Regarding X duplicating texture data, that's probably not true. It doesn't matter what resolution textures you are using, you still need lower versions of them for LOD, so I'm assuming that the S resolution of textures is just the lower mip level textures on the X. So no saving there, the PS5 and next Xbox will need them too.

Games will be bigger and even if games will save on asset duplications, textures alone will make game sizes much bigger (13.4GB on the Spider-man install). The worst example I can think of is FFXV which on PC with the official 4K HDR pack weighs 155GB before DLC. That's basically 1/5 of a 1TB HDD (considering that on the X the 1TB model allows for 780GB of gaming and apps install space).

About SSD:
I hope for a solution that is not based on caching on NAND. I would like to have a big single SSD/NVMe. Caching always have a setup phase before you gain the full advantages of the faster storage. About the fastest SSD claim by Sony/Cerny. I can see they make take advantage of something similar to 4xPCIe 4.0 lanes which would be able to provide up to double the speed of todays best consumer NVMe on the market. Or maybe it is a custom solution that uses more lanes than we are used to with PC setups. Unfortunately this kind of information is far away to be shared with the public.

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Well, you do have a caching process even on the PS4 and XBO, it's called downloading the game or installing it from a disk :)
As long as the cache drive is large enough to hold crucial launch data for multiple games, if the OS is smart enough there shouldn't be too much thrashing.

 

[Gamer17]

Klob said where he got the document? He hasn't said any of that openly. I mean, he purposely changed the format as to not indicate the document he saw..Right?

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Yea but he blacked out parts making it seem like under the black outs are the specs. the actual documents doesn't have specs. he did that for marketing hype i guess and to counter sonys wired article as he did it 2 days after sonys wired article

I wouldn't call it falsified though.

 

[Deleted member 12635]

What would the bandwidth be in this case compared to now? Insomniac talked in their gdc talk about how people could replace their hdd with a slower one and because of that had to come up with minimum specs and needed to assume it was like 20MB/s iirc.

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It depends and is subject to assumptions. I for myself use a consumer grade NVMe on my PC which achieves this type of speeds (screenshot):

Colbert confirmed that the marketing bullet points were real but the document klob made this picture from never had specs on them.

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I re-confirm that specs were not part of the document (I know) that tweet was made of.

He could have gotten those specs from somewhere else. I don't think there's been any confirmation that those specs are wrong or he made them up.

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The info about specs is not out there, otherwise there would be much more talk about it. I assume what Klobrille did was taking the info hmqgg claimed to be true from that imgur-based rumor (4TF Lockhart, 8TF PS5, 12TF Anaconda) for granted.

 

[More Butter]

Yea but he blacked out parts making it seem like under the black outs are the specs. the actual documents doesn't have specs. he did that for marketing hype i guess and to counter sonys wired article as he did it 2 days after sonys wired article

I wouldn't call it falsified though.

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What I'm asking I guess is how do you know what he saw or didn't? I may have missed that but i was under the impression that there wasn't any confirmation of where he got that in the first place. Did some other folks on here see the same document or something?

 

[Bradbatross]

It depends and is subject to assumptions. I for myself use a consumer grade NVMe on my PC which achieves this type of speeds (screenshot):

I re-confirm that specs were not part of the document that tweet was made of.


The info about specs is not out there, otherwise there would be much more talk about it. I assume what Klobrille did was taking the info hmqgg claimed to be true from that imgur-based rumor (4TF Lockhart, 8TF PS5, 12TF Anaconda) for granted.

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The info about specs isn't out there? That seems hard to believe. Hmqgg knew about ray tracing and SSDs way before that Wired article came out.

 

[Deleted member 12635]

The info about specs isn't out there? That seems hard to believe. Hmqgg knew about ray tracing and SSDs way before that Wired article came out.

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I was talking about very specific specs with a number on it. For example claiming the console to have an SSD is different to claiming a console has a 1TB SSD/NVMe.

About the claims of hmqgg he never provided a number, he just said SSDs are likely to be true.

I also don't say it is wrong that Xbox will provide SSDs too especially because they had a job offering for a system designer that had experience with SSDs and NVMe some while ago.

 

[formasymphonic]

The specs on klobrilles sheet were confirmed to be falsified. Not saying its not 1tb ssd as i think it is, but he faked it.

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Colbert confirmed that the marketing bullet points were real but the document klob made this picture from never had specs on them.

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[QUOTE="Colbert, post: 20830898, member: 12635"I re-confirm that specs were not part of the document (I know) that tweet was made of.[/QUOTE]

Wait.... WHAT!?

Thats not cool... thats not cool at all. This is exactly why you can't give any kind of status or prestige to "insiders". And definitely should skeptical of anyone affiliated with these companies.

(quote updated) but I'm still gonna say that anyone should be wary of an insider that is speaking on behalf of these companies.

 

[Deleted member 12635]

Wait.... WHAT!?

Thats not cool... thats not cool at all. This is exactly why you can't give any kind of status or prestige to "insiders". And definitely should skeptical of anyone affiliated with these companies.

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I want to add "the document I know" was circulating.

 

[Klobrille]

It depends and is subject to assumptions. I for myself use a consumer grade NVMe on my PC which achieves this type of speeds (screenshot):

I re-confirm that specs were not part of the document (I know) that tweet was made of.


The info about specs is not out there, otherwise there would be much more talk about it. I assume what Klobrille did was taking the info hmqgg claimed to be true from that imgur-based rumor (4TF Lockhart, 8TF PS5, 12TF Anaconda) for granted.

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The reason I didn't post the specific specs is because I can't verify that part and I don't want to post stuff I can't validate for myself :) It's not based on that Reddit post though. Different numbers.

The stuff I can validate was the stuff I posted already (differentiation between the two SKU).

The specs on the one hand and the marketing differentiation on the other come from two completely different documents independent from each other.

 

[chris 1515]

The reason I didn't post the specific specs is because I can't verify that part and I don't want to post stuff I can't validate for myself :) It's not based on that Reddit post though, no. Different numbers.

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I am pretty confident of your leak. And for the SSD you were not the only one to talk about it. I am french and I read the JeuVideo.com article. ;)