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What do you think could be the memory setup of your preferred console, or one of the new consoles?

  • GDDR6

    Votes: 566 41.0%
  • GDDR6 + DDR4

    Votes: 540 39.2%
  • HBM2

    Votes: 53 3.8%
  • HBM2 + DDR4

    Votes: 220 16.0%

  • Total voters
    1,379
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Deleted member 1589

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Oct 25, 2017
8,576
Ok, sure. I'm not trying to police what people discuss and apologies if I overgeneralized about the previous conversation. Just explaining that I don't think "Lockhart is cancelled" is a very productive avenue of speculation, for the reasons I laid out.

To me it's like asking what happens if Sony makes the PS5 a Switch-style hybrid. Interesting thought, might have been worth talking about a year or two ago, but not very likely to happen at this point.

EDIT: If the "fanboy" word was what annoyed you - I meant it sounds like something that people want to see happen more than something that actually might happen.
This thread moves so fast that I can understand if it seems like the narrative was that Lockhart is cancelled from the past few pages (which was filled with some dumb console warring)

I still think it's coming. Of course, I do think there's a possibility that it could be cancelled, but for me the whole thing makes sense since it would share the same APU architecture.
 

PianoBlack

Member
May 24, 2018
6,629
United States
The most interesting scenario would be if Microsoft launched a "next gen lite" system at $299 and a powerhouse at $499, and Sony launched at $399. (Which I think is actually the most likely scenario.)

Then it all really comes down to brand positioning and if Lockhart is seen as a "real" upgrade, and if the PS5 is seen as a cheaper Anaconda or a more expensive Lockhart.

Agreed. I still think this is the most likely scenario regardless of relative console power. If Anaconda is behind PS5, I think MS just tries to make it up with the value of Game Pass. "Get Halo Infinite, Forza 8, and over 100 more games included at launch with your free Game Pass trial!"
 

Sekiro

Member
Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
The most interesting scenario would be if Microsoft launched a "next gen lite" system at $299 and a powerhouse at $499, and Sony launched at $399. (Which I think is actually the most likely scenario.)

Then it all really comes down to brand positioning and if Lockhart is seen as a "real" upgrade, and if the PS5 is seen as a cheaper Anaconda or a more expensive Lockhart.

Only thing that worries me about that is the recent E3 rumors where devs were speaking negatively about the need for the Lockhart and MS redacting its existence.
 

Liabe Brave

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Oct 27, 2017
1,672
So from this table, say they choose to have 48 CU's and disable 4 for yields, and given that Navi is 'clock friendly' we bump up the clock speeds to 1800mhz mimicking the gonzalo leak, size wise can this realistically fit into the Next Gen consoles after factoring in all other space requirements like the CPU, RT Core etc.
Short answer: yes. Long answer:

Even more CUs could potentially fit, depending what you mean by "realistically". It's a very coarse guide, but say this block diagram of Navi is roughly accurate to die space allocation of the current 251mm^2 chip. If so, we need to add about 80mm^2 of Zen 2 for an APU. Let's say we also go from two "shader engines" to three. That'd give the chip 60CUs physically. And it would bring the total size to ~435mm^2.

Note that this is somewhat of a worst-case scenario, since it involves duplicating all the support transistors of the whole "shader engine". An alternate approach of adding DCUs to existing shader engines might get you to the same SP count with a (slightly) lower size. But the best-case scenario is probably no less than 450mm^2 for a 64CU part.

Is that "realistic"? Yes, in the sense that chips of this size do get manufactured and put in consumer products. AMD's Vega 64 is even bigger, for example. But it's absolutely not "realistic" in the sense of something that would make it into a mass-market console. It would be too expensive and run too hot.

But on the other hand, posters implying that anything over 40CUs is impossible are too pessimistic. A 48CU part could be as "small" as 360mm^2. This is the size of the original Xbox One APU, and the One X. A slightly larger chip--which approximation from the Scarlett reveal video suggests is the case, at least for Anaconda--could go even higher. (Though some of the physical CUs would almost certainly be disabled for yield reasons.)

4. If PS5 is indeed more powerful, that almost certainly means that it's also a massive 250W+, minimum $500 beast. We know that Anaconda was being designed with Lockhart in mind as the budget option so that Anaconda could cover the high end of the market and be positioned as premium, so that would put PS5 in the same (or higher) price range. That's all the more reason for MS to launch a $299-399 "budget" SKU. I'm guessing they'd see it as a highly desirable replay of 360 vs. PS3 in terms of pricing, even if the hardcore turn up their noses at Lockhart.
I was totally with you until this point. There are various scenarios where PS5 is more powerful, but neither it nor Anaconda are break-the-bank, hotter-than-hell powerplays. Anaconda will be sold as premium, yes, but it'll also be responsible for mitigating losses from Lockhart. PS5 has no such mandate, allowing more budget to go into silicon performance.

That's just one factor making your certainty unjustified. Personally, I still think Anaconda is going to be more powerful than Sony's machine. But that is by no means the only possible outcome (or even necessarily the most plausible).
 

Bitch Pudding

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,202
Of course, but same argument applies. If both are $499, then how does canceling the $299 (or even $399) machine help them?

You missed my point. Without Lockhart any Scarlet SKU costing more than $499 is dead on arrival. Lockhart was intended to deliver the same value for money as a $399 2019' PS5. Maybe a little slower than PS5 but cheaper, addressing the price sensitive customers out there. At the same time, Anaconda could have gone for premium customers with a high willingness to pay, allowing Anaconda to cost more than the $ 499 most here deem the upper limit for a mass market SKU.

Now Anaconda has to fulfil both jobs, and the result will be a console almost as powerful as the PS5, and it'll probably even cost the same.

Which is totally fine, since MS now bets on services to distinguish itself from Sony.
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
Honestly it feels like whichever of the two is cheaper on launch, even by a bit, will sell better then the latter, if they release on the same month etc.

I mean the casual market doesn't really care about high specs tbh, they just want the next cheap next gen machine that can play FIFA, CoD, GTA etc.
Casuals don't jump on new consoles at launch.
 

Alameda

Banned
May 19, 2019
25
According to Digital Foundy, devs have told them that making a game for two SKUs is a pain in the ass. So there's that.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,754
scarlettmonster7tkwb.jpg

Ya know I've always heard this "Sony ponies" phrase and never understood what it was supposed to mean. I thought people just said it because it rhymed, but Urban Dictionary has taught me the origin:

"Origin of this term was on the Gamefaqs Xbox 360 boards to describe the sony fanboys who would come galloping over to the Xbox boards whenever there was bad Sony news, or when PSN was down. It has since become bastardized to describe any obnoxious Sony fanboy."

Huh, ya learn something new everyday ;)
 

amstradcpc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,768
I would say that is about exactly what we will be getting from both next-gen consoles. 44CUs clocked at between 1.8Ghz to 1.85Ghz. I believe both consoles will be in that 10TF range or say between 9.5 - 10.5TF. And yes that can fit into a nextgen console if they are going foranAPU die anywhere between 330mm2 an up.
If they go clocks near 1,8 Ghz, the delay to 2019 must be because they are waiting for 7nm+ node.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,754
Wasn't there a rumor in the last thread about Sony possibly utilizing Samsung to manufacture certain parts of the PS5? Do we have ANY reason to think AMD's recent partnership with Samsung could be related? Or did anything else ever come from that Sony/Samsung rumor?
 

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,611
Wasn't there a rumor in the last thread about Sony possibly utilizing Samsung to manufacture certain parts of the PS5? Do we have ANY reason to think AMD's recent partnership with Samsung could be related? Or did anything else ever come from that Sony/Samsung rumor?
SAMSUNG is the biggest supplier for SSD and ram. It's not uncommon that Samsung is an oem.
 

Liabe Brave

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Oct 27, 2017
1,672
Wait, that RX 5700 XT can outperform the Radeon 7?
Probably not. AMD's tests on a suite of games place 5700XT as an average 5-10% better than RTX 2070, while Radeon VII seems about 15-20% better on average in framerate tests. But these numbers are close enough that individual games might run just as well on 5700XT as on Radeon VII. (Provided the results hold up in more thorough testing.)

Honestly it feels like whichever of the two is cheaper on launch, even by a bit, will sell better then the latter, if they release on the same month etc.
If history is any indication, whichever of the two is a Playstation will sell better than the other.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,754
SAMSUNG is the biggest supplier for SSD and ram. It's not uncommon that Samsung is an oem.

Yeah, my memory's fuzzy but I recall in the last thread people were discussing some Samsung components (RAM?) that exist but aren't in any known device, but were apparently being manufactured and the info lined up with a PS5 rumor (one of the billion we were getting).

Anyways I don't really have anything of my own to add, the thought just popped into my head and I was wondering if anything ever came of that rumor.
 

Sekiro

Member
Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
Short answer: yes. Long answer:

Even more CUs could potentially fit, depending what you mean by "realistically". It's a very coarse guide, but say this block diagram of Navi is roughly accurate to die space allocation of the current 251mm^2 chip. If so, we need to add about 80mm^2 of Zen 2 for an APU. Let's say we also go from two "shader engines" to three. That'd give the chip 60CUs physically. And it would bring the total size to ~435mm^2.

Note that this is somewhat of a worst-case scenario, since it involves duplicating all the support transistors of the whole "shader engine". An alternate approach of adding DCUs to existing shader engines might get you to the same SP count with a (slightly) lower size. But the best-case scenario is probably no less than 450mm^2 for a 64CU part.

Is that "realistic"? Yes, in the sense that chips of this size do get manufactured and put in consumer products. AMD's Vega 64 is even bigger, for example. But it's absolutely not "realistic" in the sense of something that would make it into a mass-market console. It would be too expensive and run too hot.

But on the other hand, posters implying that anything over 40CUs is impossible are too pessimistic. A 48CU part could be as "small" as 360mm^2. This is the size of the original Xbox One APU, and the One X. A slightly larger chip--which approximation from the Scarlett reveal video suggests is the case, at least for Anaconda--could go even higher. (Though some of the physical CUs would almost certainly be disabled for yield reasons.)


I was totally with you until this point. There are various scenarios where PS5 is more powerful, but neither it nor Anaconda are break-the-bank, hotter-than-hell powerplays. Anaconda will be sold as premium, yes, but it'll also be responsible for mitigating losses from Lockhart. PS5 has no such mandate, allowing more budget to go into silicon performance.

That's just one factor making your certainty unjustified. Personally, I still think Anaconda is going to be more powerful than Sony's machine. But that is by no means the only possible outcome (or even necessarily the most plausible).

Yeah by realistic i meant which scenario has a higher chance of actually happening, glad to see its doable.

Casuals don't jump on new consoles at launch.

Really? Could've sworn that millions of Units were sold from both systems, mixed that in with the Holiday season release then it feels like the average Joe an Jane brought a brand spanking new Playstation or Xbox for Christmas rather than just the high end audience.

It is advartise to be little faster than rtx2070, thats radeon 7 performance level

Probably not. AMD's tests on a suite of games place 5700XT as an average 5-10% better than RTX 2070, while Radeon VII seems about 15-20% better on average in framerate tests. But these numbers are close enough that individual games might run just as well on 5700XT as on Radeon VII. (Provided the results hold up in more thorough testing.)

Interesting, well we'll see what Navi's true potential is this iteration on a few weeks.

If history is any indication, whichever of the two is a Playstation will sell better than the other.

LOL

To be fair, i thought of the idea where since the Scarlett's releasing with a Halo title as a launch title, say the PS5 launch title isn't that hot this gen similar to their PS4 line up, if MS gave every Day One buyer of the Scarlett 6 free months of Xbox Game Pass, that could be a HUGE system seller, they're essentially playing any next gen game they want for free for the first 6 months on the Scarlett.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,478
Seattle
But the best-case scenario is probably no less than 450mm^2 for a 64CU part.

Is that "realistic"? Yes, in the sense that chips of this size do get manufactured and put in consumer products. AMD's Vega 64 is even bigger, for example. But it's absolutely not "realistic" in the sense of something that would make it into a mass-market console. It would be too expensive and run too hot.

It would definitely be expensive. The economics of producing a chip that large are likely impractical for any reasonable console price point, it's true. It wouldn't necessarily run too hot, though, because you're going to lower clocks to compensate. Some quick back-of-envelope math says you could get close to 12TF running at 80% of the clock speed of the 5700 XT with a 60CU part, and plausibly come in as low as 173W TDP for the GPU alone. That's assuming that power consumption is increasing at the cube of clock speed around the point where they decided to stop pushing it, which is pure speculation but not unprecedented. So yes, that's still sounding like it's somewhat outside the bounds of anything realistic, but there's also likely to be some opportunity for small wins by 2020 based on lessons learned from putting out the first iteration of RDNA. It would be extremely aggressive.

My bet for a long time has been somewhere between a conservative 9TF and 12TF at the extreme high end.
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
2,594
What would be interesting actually would be if MS did make only the X forward compatible but rebranded the X as the lower spec and price machine. So people with an X could play all the new stuff but not people with a one/s. And the new Xs they sell would be rebranded to not be called Xbox one at all but fit in with the Scarlett gen. So basically they keep selling the X under a different name so they can make it more clear it works with the newest games but not confuse one/s owners. So like a $299 Rebranded Xbox one x.

Another generation held back by Jaguar?

That would be even worse than Lockhart. You're asking for an entire generation of cross-gen games.

It would be horrible.
 

xICHIGOx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
370
Yeah by realistic i meant which scenario has a higher chance of actually happening, glad to see its doable.



Really? Could've sworn that millions of Units were sold from both systems, mixed that in with the Holiday season release then it feels like the average Joe an Jane brought a brand spanking new Playstation or Xbox for Christmas rather than just the high end audience.





Interesting, well we'll see what Navi's true potential is this iteration on a few weeks.



LOL

To be fair, i thought of the idea where since the Scarlett's releasing with a Halo title as a launch title, say the PS5 launch title isn't that hot this gen similar to their PS4 line up, if MS gave every Day One buyer of the Scarlett 6 free months of Xbox Game Pass, that could be a HUGE system seller, they're essentially playing any next gen game they want for free for the first 6 months on the Scarlett.
TBH looking at the visual on the xbox channel of the Halo Infinite Trailer I'm not so sure about its selling power now.
 

Liabe Brave

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Oct 27, 2017
1,672
To be fair, i thought of the idea where since the Scarlett's releasing with a Halo title as a launch title, say the PS5 launch title isn't that hot this gen similar to their PS4 line up, if MS gave every Day One buyer of the Scarlett 6 free months of Xbox Game Pass, that could be a HUGE system seller, they're essentially playing any next gen game they want for free for the first 6 months on the Scarlett.
It shouldn't really, but it constantly surprises me how much Microsoft's history of throwing money down the Xbox well has altered attitudes toward them. I mean, you seem like a perfectly normal, reasonable person. And here you are suggesting that a possible strategic move would be to make it so for the first six months, a bunch of customers use Microsoft's network resources and don't pay them any money at all. About a million people (or up to maybe 3+ million, if by "day one" you meant an edition rather than literally the first 24 hours) buying a console--that may itself be sold at a loss--and then not contributing a single penny through the entire launch window! This would be an opportunity cost of close to a billion dollars for Xbox.

Man, all the billions they've spent in (effectively) paying people to use their platforms has really skewed expectations. They've bought a ton of goodwill, that's for sure. But I'm not smart enough to see how they cash it all back in.
 

Sekiro

Member
Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
It shouldn't really, but it constantly surprises me how much Microsoft's history of throwing money down the Xbox well has altered attitudes toward them. I mean, you seem like a perfectly normal, reasonable person. And here you are suggesting that a possible strategic move would be to make it so for the first six months, a bunch of customers use Microsoft's network resources and don't pay them any money at all. About a million people (or up to maybe 3+ million, if by "day one" you meant an edition rather than literally the first 24 hours) buying a console--that may itself be sold at a loss--and then not contributing a single penny through the entire launch window! This would be an opportunity cost of close to a billion dollars for Xbox.

Man, all the billions they've spent in (effectively) paying people to use their platforms has really skewed expectations. They've bought a ton of goodwill, that's for sure. But I'm not smart enough to see how they cash it all back in.

Yeah 6 months may have been too wild, maybe like 2 weeks or even a month.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,205
Honestly it feels like whichever of the two is cheaper on launch, even by a bit, will sell better then the latter, if they release on the same month etc.

I mean the casual market doesn't really care about high specs tbh, they just want the next cheap next gen machine that can play FIFA, CoD, GTA etc.

Are you talking about US only because price won't matter much in Europe, Asia, etc. It didn't with the PS3 and nothing has really changed in those regions since then.

The most interesting scenario would be if Microsoft launched a "next gen lite" system at $299 and a powerhouse at $499, and Sony launched at $399. (Which I think is actually the most likely scenario.)

Then it all really comes down to brand positioning and if Lockhart is seen as a "real" upgrade, and if the PS5 is seen as a cheaper Anaconda or a more expensive Lockhart.

So you expect Sony to take a bigger loss than Microsoft? Because now we have no reason to believe that the consoles will be that far apart in performance to justify such a disparity in price.
 
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Deleted member 1589

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Oct 25, 2017
8,576
Explain. Because I bet you haven't watched that trailer in 4K on YouTube if you don't think it looks awesome.
I did, it wasnt mindblowing or anything.

Think we need to see gameplay instead of the inside of a brightly lit ship.

I appreciate the dedication to the cause gents.

I'll be your man on the inside, to promote your posts in smug satisfaction while your accounts are banned ;-)

Disappointed that Anexanume is a traitor to the HBM movement. This is a stab right through the heart.

I think it would be GDDR6 too, but goddamn I'm not about to make a ban bet over it :D
 

Sekiro

Member
Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
I did, it wasnt mindblowing or anything.

Think we need to see gameplay instead of the inside of a brightly lit ship.

You know what would be awesome, the first gameplay demo we ever see on the Next Gen consoles, i want it to show us all of its benefits, and not just on the graphics.

Fast loading times super speed flying with zero freezes, tons of npc's and AI in a single zone etc.

Honestly i just need a next gen demo badly lol.
 

PianoBlack

Member
May 24, 2018
6,629
United States
You missed my point. Without Lockhart any Scarlet SKU costing more than $499 is dead on arrival. Lockhart was intended to deliver the same value for money as a $399 2019' PS5. Maybe a little slower than PS5 but cheaper, addressing the price sensitive customers out there. At the same time, Anaconda could have gone for premium customers with a high willingness to pay, allowing Anaconda to cost more than the $ 499 most here deem the upper limit for a mass market SKU.

Now Anaconda has to fulfil both jobs, and the result will be a console almost as powerful as the PS5, and it'll probably even cost the same.

Which is totally fine, since MS now bets on services to distinguish itself from Sony.

But Anaconda only has to fulfill both jobs if MS makes the choice to kill Lockhart... so why would they kill it? So what if Anaconda is a little slower than PS5? That's not a reason to suddenly flush all of your costs developing Lockhart and take a massive loss on Anaconda to try to drive it as the mass market device.
 

Bowl0l

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,608
Are you talking about US only because price won't matter much in Europe, Asia, etc. It didn't with the PS3 and nothing has really changed in those regions since then.
You probably need to explain yourself. Malaysia has the second highest price in the world (behind Brazil) during PS4 launch when our currency is strong in 2013. I only bought a PS4 at launch day because I got a Singapore unit without the unpleasant markup due to the free R3 PSN Plus 3 month subscription. Thank god for warranty covering most of S. E. Asia instead of limited to country of purchase.

We can't even login XBox store to purchase games so that's the main issue.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
8,576
yeah, but dropped down significantly after people realised that it has a shit online service (Xbox Live was the gold standard back then) and a lack of good first party games in the horizon.
Xbox 360 sold well in my region too after a while... because it was easily cracked, games came on DVD and was easily picked up by our pirated DVD gangs who sold games at 3-4 USD.

You probably need to explain yourself. Malaysia has the second highest price in the world (behind Brazil) during PS4 launch when our currency is strong in 2013. I only bought a PS4 at launch day because I got a Singapore unit without the unpleasant markup due to the free R3 PSN Plus 3 month subscription. Thank god for warranty covering most of S. E. Asia instead of limited to country of purchase.

We can't even login XBox store to purchase games so that's the main issue.

Man that was a fun time. Got mine from Ash, waited until midnight for the console and games to be sent to the office.
 

Liabe Brave

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Oct 27, 2017
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Some quick back-of-envelope math says you could get close to 12TF running at 80% of the clock speed of the 5700 XT with a 60CU part, and plausibly come in as low as 173W TDP for the GPU alone.
I think you're missing a confounding factor here. The 5700XT isn't actually clocked at 1.9GHz, but effectively at 1.755GHz, and 80% of that is only 1.4GHz. A 60CU chip at that speed would only develop 10.8 TF, not "close to 12".

Further, if 60CU is the active count, yield concerns would drive the chip to physically contain 64CU. Or, any chip with a defect is unusable. This might not affect the power draw, but either way it would make the chip even more expensive.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,205
You probably need to explain yourself. Malaysia has the second highest price in the world (behind Brazil) during PS4 launch when our currency is strong in 2013. I only bought a PS4 at launch day because I got a Singapore unit without the unpleasant markup due to the free R3 PSN Plus 3 month subscription. Thank god for warranty covering most of S. E. Asia instead of limited to country of purchase.

We can't even login XBox store to purchase games so that's the main issue.

Explain what? What does the price of PS4 in Malaysia have to with the fact PS dominates Europe and Asia in relation to Xbox? The reasons why are irrelevant.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,660
So you expect Sony to take a bigger loss than Microsoft? Because now we have no reason to believe that the consoles will be that far apart in performance to justify such a disparity in price.

There's a lot we don't know about the consoles yet.

Microsoft has shown more of a willingness in recent years to price their console at $499. Sony didn't want to break the $399 barrier even with the PS4 Pro, a product that is inherently more niche and core-focused. If they weren't willing to give the PS4 Pro — which has the entire purpose of being a premium option, sold alongside a cheaper one, for more demanding gamers — a price tag over $400, I don't see why they would be willing to price their all-new console any higher. It's extremely important to Sony as a whole that their new console is an immediate success; if they wanted to test the market's price elasticity, I think they would have first tried doing so with the Pro, where the stakes were much lower.

Sony wants to lead the market, and they understand that no console that has launched at more than $400 has ever gone on to lead the market. Yeah, inflation happens — which is why PS4 was the first console to launch at $399 that went on to lead the market. I don't think they're going to be eager to try their chances at $499 quite yet.
 

Liabe Brave

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Oct 27, 2017
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The PS3 sold well outside the US on launch with those crazy prices?
Yes it did.

yeah, but dropped down significantly after people realised that it has a shit online service (Xbox Live was the gold standard back then) and a lack of good first party games in the horizon.
No it didn't. In reality, from the beginning PS3 outsold Xbox 360 worldwide. It sold more in 2007. It sold more in 2008. It sold more in 2009. It sold more in 2010. In 2011, Kinect's massive popularity did put 360 on top (though the PS3 also had a better year than the previous one, and the gap wasn't huge). PS3 took the lead back again in 2012.
 

PianoBlack

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May 24, 2018
6,629
United States
I was totally with you until this point. There are various scenarios where PS5 is more powerful, but neither it nor Anaconda are break-the-bank, hotter-than-hell powerplays. Anaconda will be sold as premium, yes, but it'll also be responsible for mitigating losses from Lockhart. PS5 has no such mandate, allowing more budget to go into silicon performance.

That's just one factor making your certainty unjustified. Personally, I still think Anaconda is going to be more powerful than Sony's machine. But that is by no means the only possible outcome (or even necessarily the most plausible).

Well, now you're making unjustified assumptions about losses and so on. Why would we assume Anaconda has to make a profit? Has MS given an indication that profiting on hardware day 1 is important to them?

I guess my point is that, for MS's strategy, it doesn't matter which console is more powerful. MS developed Anaconda as a premium machine (whatever that means to you - a reasonable $499 X successor or a $599/$699 monster, but almost definitely not a $399 machine). They developed Lockhart to cover the majority of the market, which only buys in at $400 and below.

If PS5 is more powerful than Anaconda, it's almost certainly playing in the same price band. So then you want to undercut it with Lockhart and offer a comparable experience with Anaconda for your platform fans.

Alternatively, Anaconda is better than PS5, and you get to trumpet that while also covering the low end with Lockhart.

I have no idea which is true, but I don't see any reason that it matters for Lockhart coming to market.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,205
There's a lot we don't know about the consoles yet.

Microsoft has shown more of a willingness in recent years to price their console at $499. Sony didn't want to break the $399 barrier even with the PS4 Pro, a product that is inherently more niche and core-focused. If they weren't willing to give the PS4 Pro — which has the entire purpose of being a premium option, sold alongside a cheaper one, for more demanding gamers — a price tag over $400, I don't see why they'd feel that they could price their all-new console any higher.

Sony wants to lead the market, and they understand that no console that has launched at more than $400 has ever gone on to lead the market. Yeah, inflation happens — which is why PS4 was the first console to launch at $399 that went on to lead the market. I don't think they're going to be eager to try their chances at $499 quite yet.

So what are you saying? That Sony will take a bigger loss on hardware or the PS5 will have significantly worse components? It's really one or the other. Based on what we know to this point the latter seems highly unlikely.
 

Bowl0l

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,608
Explain what? What does the price of PS4 in Malaysia have to with the fact PS dominates Europe and Asia in relation to Xbox? The reasons why are irrelevant.
You are claiming price doesn't matter. Higher a little more, I would have skipped the PS4 due to the 1st year draught. Only thing that could make me ignore markup is the PS4 b/c. No b/c, no day one purchase.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,660
So what are you saying? That Sony will take a bigger loss on hardware or the PS5 will have significantly worse components? It's really one or the other. Based on what we know to this point the latter seems highly unlikely.

But there's a lot we don't know at this point.

I wouldn't assume that the two machines are going to be identical, just because the high-level overview is the same. It's arguably in Microsoft's interest to ensure that the next Xbox is sufficiently differentiated from the next PlayStation, because after three generations it's clear that in any undifferentiated match they would lose just due to the relative strength of the brands.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,205
You are claiming price doesn't matter. Higher a little more, I would have skipped the PS4 due to the 1st year draught. Only thing that could make me ignore markup is the PS4 b/c. No b/c, no day one purchase.

I'm not saying price irrelevant. I'm saying a difference of like $50 isn't going to move the needle in those regions. I'm even sure a $100 would. It hasn't so far.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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But there's a lot we don't know at this point.

I wouldn't assume that the two machines are going to be identical, just because the high-level overview is the same. It's arguably in Microsoft's interest to ensure that the next Xbox is notably different from the next PlayStation.

That's not really a good argument. Just because they needed/wanted it doesn't mean it will be. You are talking about some secret sauce now, but what he have on paper right now are two very similar boxes.
 
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