Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

What do you think could be the memory setup of your preferred console, or one of the new consoles?


  • Total voters
    1,129

Bitch Pudding

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,098
But Anaconda only has to fulfill both jobs if MS makes the choice to kill Lockhart... so why would they kill it? So what if Anaconda is a little slower than PS5? That's not a reason to suddenly flush all of your costs developing Lockhart and take a massive loss on Anaconda to try to drive it as the mass market device.
Quick and dirty:



No need for Lockhart since XBOX One S (and maybe X, but I don't think so!) can take care of the price sensitive customers. MS announcement not to deliver any next-gen exclusive 1st party titles in the forseeable future strongly indicates that XBOX One will still be around once Anaconda arrives.

Looking forward to anyone's feedback to those maps btw.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
3,708
okay, i see very odd discussion here:

lockhart is NOT cancelled.
my proof?
thurrott which gets leaks from MS made an article before E3 to give expectation and talked about lockhart's perfromance target.
the reason why MS are not talking about this yet is they dont want to deliver muddied messaging this far out. so now they are talking about the project as a whole.
lockhart certainly still exists, and it will almost certainly still come out in holiady 2020 alongside the anaconda.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,932
Barcelona Spain
Quick and dirty:



No need for Lockhart since XBOX One S (and maybe X, but I don't think so!) can take care of the price sensitive customers. MS announcement not to deliver any next-gen exclusive 1st party titles in the forseeable future strongly indicates that XBOX One will still be around once Anaconda arrives.

Looking forward to anyone's feedback to those maps btw.
If Anaconda APU is 390 to 430 mm2, I am sure Lockhart will be there...
 

jaggies

Member
Oct 30, 2017
626
So your stance is that while the consoles will have similar parts Anaconda will have better or at worst equal versions of all those components because Microsoft wants it more and Sony is afraid to go above $399. I'm convinced. No, not really.
First, my stance is that "Zen2, Navi, and SSD" doesn't equal "similar parts." There are a lot of parts that aren't in that equation, and there's a lot of potential differences between the parts that are. AMD's entire business model is based on selling different Zen2 and Navi parts, with different specs, for different amounts of money.

All consoles are designed to a price point. Sony needs their console to reach a large market, so they're going to price their console at a point where they feel that they can do so (and quickly). Microsoft is in a different position with Xbox; they've never been the market leader and they know going head-to-head with an undifferentiated product is unlikely to improve their market share. Rather than try to compete again with an undifferentiated product, a potentially more fruitful strategy would be to develop a differentiated product, even if it results in one with a smaller addressable market (such as making a premium console aimed at core gamers who are willing to spend more). A unique product that is compelling to at least some people could get Microsoft a larger share of the market than a product that was identical to their competitor except without the leading brand name. (Even if their share size is unchanged, they may get a more desirable share; a premium console that was aimed squarely at hardcore gamers might attract a wealthier audience who buys more games on average, for example.)

Microsoft has the freedom to do this precisely because they're not the market leader, and because consoles are only a portion of their Xbox strategy, which is in turn only a small portion of their corporate strategy. The next Xbox doesn't have to be all things to all people in the same way Sony needs the next PlayStation to be, in other words. An Xbox One successor that matches the market share of the Xbox One could be successful for Microsoft. A PlayStation 5 that matches the market share of the Xbox One would be a huge, panic-inducing market contraction for Sony.

It has nothing to do with secret sauce or "wanting it more." It just has to do with what each company needs out of their next-gen console, given their different positions now.

And lose the attitude, you're not clever enough for it to be endearing.
 

Lukas Taves

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,296
Brazil
I'm not sure I follow the logic here. One X has a greater than 4x GPU advantage over One S, so it's not surprising that resolution can sometimes be raised 4x or more. What does that have to do with having to support Lockhart and Anaconda? As I've pointed out multiple times, devs often choose not to support One X right now. Making dual-machine support mandatory next gen--which would inevitably be the case--therefore represents an extra commitment of resources. It doesn't matter how straightforward it is (though I think you're also underselling the effort involved).
Ok, then there are cases where Xbone is 900p and X is 4K and X still performs better. That goes above the processing power difference.

But it was just to add to the point that is, despite the performance delta Lockhart and Anaconda are going to be on the same architecture, unlike S and X where the memory setup is completely different and the more powerful machine has the more straightforward design ie requires more optimizations.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. In addition to a less-powerful GPU, Lockhart is also going to have a lot less RAM, and almost certainly lower memory bandwidth. That may mostly be unimportant if the resolution is lowered so much...but to say it will never have an effect on framerate as long as you reduce res is definitely not justified at this point.
Sure there are cases that this can happen, though you oughta agree they will definitely very rare based on the sheer resolution delta alone.

Plus, Ms controla the design, they can definitely scale in such a way to offer significant savings from them, but still offers the same or even better bandwidth for resolution ratio. It’s very possible and even expected that even with significant less bandwidth lockhart will be more adequated to 1080p targets than Ps5/Anaconda at 4K
 
Oct 25, 2017
987
Did MS announce any Next Gen exclusives?

Could Lockhart have been killed/delayed due to lack of dedicated next gen software? We had the rumor that everything would be cross-gen for early launch period. It would be impossible to market/justify a dedicated 1080p box that plays the same games as the S and X.
 

Bitch Pudding

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,098
okay, i see very odd discussion here:

lockhart is NOT cancelled.
my proof?
thurrott which gets leaks from MS made an article before E3 to give expectation and talked about lockhart's perfromance target.
the reason why MS are not talking about this yet is they dont want to deliver muddied messaging this far out. so now they are talking about the project as a whole.
lockhart certainly still exists, and it will almost certainly still come out in holiady 2020 alongside the anaconda.
That isn't proof. This barely qualifies as in indication, either.

MAYBE the author of that article has information from insiders. However, MS' messages clearly changed within the last couple of weeks and that's certainly not a coincidence. So maybe the thurrott's opinion piece is just based on old(er) info, who knows...
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
1,112
That isn't proof. This barely qualifies as in indication, either.

MAYBE the author of that article has information from insiders. However, MS' messages clearly changed within the last couple of weeks and that's certainly not a coincidence. So maybe the thurrott's opinion piece is just based on old(er) info, who knows...
That is Thurrott. They are mainly dedicated to Microsoft stuff, and they are very good at it too.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,058
Malaysia
There is no evidence that Lockhart is cancelled.

MS's refusal to talk about it - is not fundamentally any different than how Scarlett was presented in the E3 video as just a singular, super powerful device. Without any pricing details, talking about how there's a 'cheaper' version of your grand vision of a powerful machine muddies your message a ton.

This is one aspect of MS's next-gen communication that imo - they've missed the mark on. Since E3 last year, they've allowed so much details on their next-gen plans ( 2 SKUs, heavy Gamepass focus, Gamecore, Xcloud, etc ) to leak via folks like Brad Sams/etc, even though there are parts of those plans where they clearly ain't gonna talk about yet... for 2 years.
 

Lukas Taves

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,296
Brazil
i'm thinking most games will get a performance mode and graphics mode so this won't be an issue.
I think the ideal was that we moved to a completely dynamic world.

Like the user has some options:

Preferred resolution
Preferred framerate
In case of need drop Resolution/Framerate

And the game would just adapt to that. If you select a resolution bigger than what the machine can currently support it will machine learn upscale to the desired resolution, otherwise it runs native. With that settings some games could chose to adapt graphical settings, but for most keeping the same setting across and adjusting framerate dynamically should be enough.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,245
I like this guy. Going out with a bang.
Of course you do

Wonder how much the plans have to change if Lockhart is dead? It would have been the lead seller while Anaconda just targets the high end crowd.

Also whatever R&D that went into it will be wasted, which probably could have gone into Anaconda.
If the Anaconda and the PS5 are similarly specced, and the PS5 aims to be the highest selling console, why can't Ana do the same?

Why does MS need a low end SKU when Sony doesn't?

I'd argue that the Ana could be the highest selling console at launch/first year anyway

Also, if the games are supposed to come out on the X for the first couple of years they don't really need the Lockhart, whereas the PS4 won't be able (supposedly) to play next gen exclusives.

You say the Ana targets the high end crowd, but at $499 maybe that's the middle of the road crowd, what in 2013 was the $399, specially if the PS5 is also $499.

All speculation of course.
 

Raide

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,775
I really don't see the need for Lockhart. Just make a revision to the 1X, drop the price and have that as the entry level system. It's more than capable of kicking out what people want and leave the high end to Scarlett.
 

GamingCJ

Member
Apr 14, 2019
135
There is no evidence that Lockhart is cancelled.

MS's refusal to talk about it - is not fundamentally any different than how Scarlett was presented in the E3 video as just a singular, super powerful device. Without any pricing details, talking about how there's a 'cheaper' version of your grand vision of a powerful machine muddies your message a ton.

This is one aspect of MS's next-gen communication that imo - they've missed the mark on. Since E3 last year, they've allowed so much details on their next-gen plans ( 2 SKUs, heavy Gamepass focus, Gamecore, Xcloud, etc ) to leak via folks like Brad Sams/etc, even though there are parts of those plans where they clearly ain't gonna talk about yet... for 2 years.
I have absolutely no clue if MS has cancelled Lockhart, but I think a 'We will have one cheap entry Model and one super awesome powerful Premium one' would have been a totally fine message without muddying anything. Also it is kinda weird why they even would have talked about multiple Nextboxes at e3 2018.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,125
Tokyo
I really don't see the need for Lockhart. Just make a revision to the 1X, drop the price and have that as the entry level system. It's more than capable of kicking out what people want and leave the high end to Scarlett.
Would that make sense considering the new ssd features they are trying to implement? Wouldn't it be simpler to make a new system then try to an old one to work?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,075
First, my stance is that "Zen2, Navi, and SSD" doesn't equal "similar parts." There are a lot of parts that aren't in that equation, and there's a lot of potential differences between the parts that are. AMD's entire business model is based on selling different Zen2 and Navi parts, with different specs, for different amounts of money.

All consoles are designed to a price point. Sony needs their console to reach a large market, so they're going to price their console at a point where they feel that they can do so (and quickly). Microsoft is in a different position with Xbox; they've never been the market leader and they know going head-to-head with an undifferentiated product is unlikely to improve their market share. Rather than try to compete again with an undifferentiated product, a potentially more fruitful strategy would be to develop a differentiated product, even if it results in one with a smaller addressable market (such as making a premium console aimed at core gamers who are willing to spend more). A unique product that is compelling to at least some people could get Microsoft a larger share of the market than a product that was identical to their competitor except without the leading brand name. (Even if their share size is unchanged, they may get a more desirable share; a premium console that was aimed squarely at hardcore gamers might attract a wealthier audience who buys more games on average, for example.)

Microsoft has the freedom to do this precisely because they're not the market leader, and because consoles are only a portion of their Xbox strategy, which is in turn only a small portion of their corporate strategy. The next Xbox doesn't have to be all things to all people in the same way Sony needs the next PlayStation to be, in other words. An Xbox One successor that matches the market share of the Xbox One could be successful for Microsoft. A PlayStation 5 that matches the market share of the Xbox One would be a huge, panic-inducing market contraction for Sony.

It has nothing to do with secret sauce or "wanting it more." It just has to do with what each company needs out of their next-gen console, given their different positions now.

And lose the attitude, you're not clever enough for it to be endearing.
You wrote all that just to say basically the same thing people have been saying for months as to why Anaconda will be much more powerful despite any evidence to the contrary. You didn't just explain something interesting. And it comes off as the same thinly veiled wishful thinking. Meh. We can end this now.
 

Raide

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,775
Would that make sense considering the new ssd features they are trying to implement? Wouldn't it be simpler to make a new system then try to an old one to work?
I don't see the need to fragment a new generation over multiple consoles. Despite a recent interview with Phil where he sees all the systems floating along being supported, I don't see the need for Lockhart, unless they make it and drop Xbox One and 1X.
 
Oct 29, 2017
314
Vienna, Austria
I have mentioned this before but MS should scratch the Lockhart idea and try to make so that Anaconda can be bought in different ways. This way you can siphon in all customers to "the best possible experience" instead of segmenting the market with those who can afford the best experience and those who have to settle with less.

Yes, videogames is a luxury item but considering the move to services (Gamespass, streaming whatnot), MS should allow Anaconda to be sold either as just a console and people can add the services they want or they could offer a lowered priced Anaconda with XboxLive and Gamepass for a 2-3 year contract or make it even cheaper for a "Generation contract". By offering different ways/alternatives to buy Anaconda, MS provides the best experience and they dont segment the market with a lowered powered machine.

They can let Xbox One X be their "low powered" machine and for people who wants to play the newest games on the X, it will have to be through xCloud.

so yeah, MS should make attractive offerings for Anaconda and not divide the market with low and high tier options for next gen.
 

isahn

Member
Nov 15, 2017
361
Roma
I have absolutely no clue if MS has cancelled Lockhart, but I think a 'We will have one cheap entry Model and one super awesome powerful Premium one' would have been a totally fine message without muddying anything. Also it is kinda weird why they even would have talked about multiple Nextboxes at e3 2018.
I was thinking that the Lockhart could have been useful to counter a 2019 PS5 launch. In 2020 MS would have launched Lockhart priced accordingly the 2020 PS5 price and similarly specced along with the more expensive performance leader anaconda. With Sony backtracking its 2019 launch strategy I honestly don't see the point of Lockhart anymore. MS could still launch a cheap streaming box though
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,075
I have mentioned this before but MS should scratch the Lockhart idea and try to make so that Anaconda can be bought in different ways. This way you can siphon in all customers to "the best possible experience" instead of segmenting the market with those who can afford the best experience and those who have to settle with less.

Yes, videogames is a luxury item but considering the move to services (Gamespass, streaming whatnot), MS should allow Anaconda to be sold either as just a console and people can add the services they want or they could offer a lowered priced Anaconda with XboxLive and Gamepass for a 2-3 year contract or make it even cheaper for a "Generation contract". By offering different ways/alternatives to buy Anaconda, MS provides the best experience and they dont segment the market with a lowered powered machine.

They can let Xbox One X be their "low powered" machine and for people who wants to play the newest games on the X, it will have to be through xCloud.

so yeah, MS should make attractive offerings for Anaconda and not divide the market with low and high tier options for next gen.
I think that if the contract model was viable for consoles it would have implemented by now. Since it hasn't been I can conclude that it isn't. This was discussed before last gen started. I don't think Gamepass makes it markedly more viable. It would be interesting to see them try though.
 

Cyborg

Member
Oct 30, 2017
969
Sorry to ask this but I'm confused.

Are both consoles
- RDNA?
- Or RDNA in combination with GNC (Hybrid)

Cause I read only Next Gen RDNA has RT but Next Gen RDN is not in the next PS/Xbox. Right?

Can anyone explain how to read this all?
 
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PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,430
London
I have absolutely no clue if MS has cancelled Lockhart, but I think a 'We will have one cheap entry Model and one super awesome powerful Premium one' would have been a totally fine message without muddying anything. Also it is kinda weird why they even would have talked about multiple Nextboxes at e3 2018.
There was nothing to muddy, it was so light on content that it would have improved the announcement to mention 2 consoles are in the works.

I don't know if it's cancelled but it's not needed for the launch window unless the premium console is an insane price, its going to fly off the shelves anyway.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,208
Did MS announce any Next Gen exclusives?
No. Indeed, while there isn't an express mandate, listening to Matt Booty their software strategy seems focused on access as a priority, across a variety of hardware using a 'PC settings'-like approach. Rather than using a new high end console as a new foundation. At least for the time being.

Could Lockhart have been killed/delayed due to lack of dedicated next gen software? We had the rumor that everything would be cross-gen for early launch period. It would be impossible to market/justify a dedicated 1080p box that plays the same games as the S and X.
I guess it could be tricky marketing a box that isn't playing launch games graphically any better than the X. Maybe that's the conundrum. But they would sport higher framerates for CPU bound games, faster loads etc. Maybe that would be enough to make a pitch? But yes, it might cause a little hesitancy on the marketing around it.

I don't think that's necessarily killing the idea though, but it might be why they're not immediately talking about it, until they can really show the full picture.

I think their first party software strategy actually supports the concept - another target SKU isn't going to break the back if first parties are already having to develop across 4+ targets. It's third parties who might be more wary of Lockhart as a concept, if they have eyes eventually on leaving older targets behind, or more quickly than MS first party does.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,208
Sorry to ask this but I'm confused.

Are both consoles
- RDNA?
- Or RDNA in combination with GNC (Hybrid)

Cause I read only Next Gen RDNA has RT but its not in the next PS/Xbox. Right?

Can anyone explain how to read this all?
RT is not a fundamental component of RDNA. Any more than the RT cores in nVidia's hardware are a fundamental component of Turing - they're not. There are Turing cards without RTX. RT acceleration seems to be a feature orthogonal to the base architecture in both the nVidia and AMD cases.

Both consoles are RDNA. They may be a second, 2020 instance of RDNA that's a bit tweaked vs the RDNA cards this year. That 2020 hw might have RT stuff in it, but there could well be SKUs that don't have it, while still being the same base 'RDNA 2020' arch as the others.There is no distinct 'RDNA/GCN' hybrid - if RDNA has legacies of GCN in it, so will every RDNA going forward.
 
Last edited:
Feb 10, 2018
11,692
As I've said, because modern AMD's mid range GPUs consume considerably more power than AMD's mid range GPUs back at launch of PS4/XBO did.
I dunno if a mid gen upgrade (XBX specifically) is a good reference here but if we acknowledge it then it just proves the point: next gen machines will likely consume more power than this gen launch models did.
Yes, I agree about that they will be higher then launch, but going much higher then the 1x seems unlikely.
 

Cyborg

Member
Oct 30, 2017
969
RT is not a fundamental component of RDNA. Any more than the RT cores in nVidia's hardware are a fundamental component of Turing - they're not. There are Turing cards without RTX. RT acceleration seems to be a feature orthogonal to the base architecture in both the nVidia and AMD cases.

Both consoles are RDNA. They may be a second, 2020 instance of RDNA that's a bit tweaked vs the RDNA cards this year. That 2020 hw might have RT stuff in it, but there could well be SKUs that don't have it, while still be the same base 'RDNA 2020' arch as the others.There is no distinct 'RDNA/GCN' hybrid - if RDNA has legacies of GCN in it, so will every RDNA going forward.
Thank you.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,848
Cerny has been talking about RT hardware in consoles for years. I'll give you SSDs, though they're actually falling in price dramatically whilst HBM is still expensive as fuck. So expensive that Navi is marketed as a GDDR6 GPU for mass market consumers. AMD, Microsoft and Nvidia are all using GDDR6. Sony won't be any different.
The cost could be countered by the possibility of it lowering over the gen. Eat it now and reap the benefits later.

It probably is unlikely. I just don't think we can definitively rule it out. Things have already happened that only a few expected to happen.

BRO

It'll be interesting to see if the guy was right about the 7nm Samsung EUV PS4, for starters.

I wonder if MS being cool with confirming GDDR6, but Sony not doing the same, says anything beyond the companies having slightly different marketing approaches?
WE OUT HERE!

That is definitely one of the possible ways. A difference in RAM giving a slight edge.
 
Feb 10, 2018
11,692
Oh don't get me wrong. I don't believe a word of what I m saying. I never liked the idea of the whole two SKU thing, though I could understand and relate with why MS may have deemed it necessary. I can een se why they would think its a good idea. But its never been something I have been a fan of. I just talk about the possibilities of why things may be, even if I am a fan of it or not.

If I am to be honest, I think the two SK thing s dead. Something has changed.....
Yeah, with streaming and an a apparent longer cross gen period, if these are true then a Lockhart may not be necessary .
However I still think a cheaper console with about 1/2 the gpu power is not a bad idea and I think it could work.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
3,171
The cost could be countered by the possibility of it lowering over the gen. Eat it now and reap the benefits later.

It probably is unlikely. I just don't think we can definitively rule it out. Things have already happened that only a few expected to happen.
Not to mention that, as has been stated so many times, the rumour is not that PS5 will have HBM2 instead of GDDR6. The HBM2 is only supposed to make up a third of the RAM. The rest is DDR4, which I believe is considerably cheaper than GDDR6 (how much cheaper is it, anyway?). If we then take into account what the rumour said about buying cheaper rejected chips and using InFO_MS to improve those chips and avoid the interposer cost, along with what you said about the HBM2 dropping in price quicker over time, would this solution really cost any more than 24GB of GDDR6? And if it did, would the cost be a huge issue given the space savings and the extra power that could be allocated to the GPU?
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,999
Why did Anexanume defect from team HBM2 to team GDDR6.
When did u classify hbm 2 as completely false.i remember u were considering it before.what happened ? I probably missed something
Kyoufu and anexanhume, it just occured to me that I must be misunderstanding the point of your ban bet.

Are you both betting on HBM, and if right you take a ban? -- cuz that's how I first read it -- which of course in hindsight doesn't make sense.. lol

Or are you betting against HBM and if you're wrong you take a ban?
LOL. I was never team HBM, look at my poll choice. I was promoting the most technically viable alternative for discussion to make things interesting. I stated at the time that HBM2 plus quad channel DDR4 seemed to defeat the purpose, and I still believe that.

Kyoufu is wagering a ban on no console using HBM.

My wager was that at least one console will have 10TF. FWIW, his wager is safer than mine IMO.
 

Gamer17

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,993
After reading the matt booty interview about the goal to release a First party game every 2 3 months on game pass , I kinda got the feeling that MS is done with AAA games .AA games released quickly is their model due to nature of gamepass (and their recent studio acquisitions also shows samething kinda, small AA studios).

Isn't that a bit alarming to Xbox gamers ?? AAA games take 4 to 5 years minimum . And sacrificing quality for quantity should not be objective of the platform holder.

Anyways this doesn't speak well to me but hey I haven't been their target audience since 2011 so maybe Xbox gamers are fine with this .
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
3,708
After reading the matt booty interview about the goal to release a First party game every 2 3 months on game pass , I kinda got the feeling that MS is done with AAA games .AA games released quickly is their model due to nature of gamepass (and their recent studio acquisitions also shows samething kinda, small AA studios).

Isn't that a bit alarming to Xbox gamers ?? AAA games take 4 to 5 years minimum . And sacrificing quality for quantity should not be objective of the platform holder.

Anyways this doesn't speak well to me but hey I haven't been their target audience since 2011 so maybe Xbox gamers are fine with this .
they will still have 2 yearly AAAs with your forza +halo/gears/fable, but i expect the rest of the games to be lower budgeted 2.5A yea.
 

Super Barrier

Member
Nov 20, 2017
528
After reading the matt booty interview about the goal to release a First party game every 2 3 months on game pass , I kinda got the feeling that MS is done with AAA games .AA games released quickly is their model due to nature of gamepass (and their recent studio acquisitions also shows samething kinda, small AA studios).

Isn't that a bit alarming to Xbox gamers ?? AAA games take 4 to 5 years minimum . And sacrificing quality for quantity should not be objective of the platform holder.

Anyways this doesn't speak well to me but hey I haven't been their target audience since 2011 so maybe Xbox gamers are fine with this .
They have 15 studios now and aim to have a few more over the next few years. If they plan to release a new game every 2-3 months that’s 4-6 games a year. That gives a dev 2.5 - 3.75 years to make a new game on simple average, if they stick with the same 15 studios... some studios will obviously produce more games and some will take longer. I don’t think this changes anything; they just have more studios.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,058
Malaysia
After reading the matt booty interview about the goal to release a First party game every 2 3 months on game pass , I kinda got the feeling that MS is done with AAA games .AA games released quickly is their model due to nature of gamepass (and their recent studio acquisitions also shows samething kinda, small AA studios).

Isn't that a bit alarming to Xbox gamers ?? AAA games take 4 to 5 years minimum . And sacrificing quality for quantity should not be objective of the platform holder.

Anyways this doesn't speak well to me but hey I haven't been their target audience since 2011 so maybe Xbox gamers are fine with this .
Untrue.

Let me just share a few examples.

2014: - 4 AAA calibre games. ( Halo 2 Anniversary is a remake packaged with MCC )
  • Forza Horizon 2
  • Halo: The Master Chief Collection
  • Kinect Sports Rivals
  • Sunset Overdrive
2015: 3 + 1 AAA game. ( ROTR counts, it shows MS was willing to sign timed-exclusives to increase their exclusive library )
  • Forza Motorsport 6
  • Gears of War Ultimate Edition
  • Halo 5: Guardians
  • Rise of the Tomb Raider
2016: 3+1 AAA ( Another one as per 2015 )
  • Dead Rising 4
  • Forza Horizon 3
  • Gears of War 4
  • Quantum Break

And if we look at examples above - we can see situations where MS had different plans for 4 games per year. QB was supposed to be 2015 before it got delayed.
2016 was supposed to have Crackdown 3 and Scalebound and we both know what happened to it.

MS's AAA output only declined in the past 2 years, and they're clearly doing all they can to go back to 2014/15 level output with their acquired studios.
 

Thera

Member
Feb 28, 2019
533
After reading the matt booty interview about the goal to release a First party game every 2 3 months on game pass , I kinda got the feeling that MS is done with AAA games .AA games released quickly is their model due to nature of gamepass (and their recent studio acquisitions also shows samething kinda, small AA studios).

Isn't that a bit alarming to Xbox gamers ?? AAA games take 4 to 5 years minimum . And sacrificing quality for quantity should not be objective of the platform holder.

Anyways this doesn't speak well to me but hey I haven't been their target audience since 2011 so maybe Xbox gamers are fine with this .
They haven't so much AAA at the moment either.
Forza doesn't need 4-5 years, so it will continue to exist.
That let Gears and Halo, and they will continue.
Most of the studio they bought can't do AAA.
So nothing will change, but you will have more games.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,728
LOL. I was never team HBM, look at my poll choice. I was promoting the most technically viable alternative for discussion to make things interesting. I stated at the time that HBM2 plus quad channel DDR4 seemed to defeat the purpose, and I still believe that.

Kyoufu is wagering a ban on no console using HBM.

My wager was that at least one console will have 10TF. FWIW, his wager is safer than mine IMO.
I think we will both survive, but yeah my bet is much safer.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,229
Msk / SPb, Russia
But why assume they'll keep clocks at PC level?
I'm not assuming that at all, I'm going with a conservative estimation of 1600-1750 for a chip with more CUs than 5700XT has.
And on the contrary, I don't fully understand why people here think that a wider part with lower clocks would consume less than a narrower one with higher clocks - all examples we have in PC space show the exact opposite of that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,848
Not to mention that, as has been stated so many times, the rumour is not that PS5 will have HBM2 instead of GDDR6. The HBM2 is only supposed to make up a third of the RAM. The rest is DDR4, which I believe is considerably cheaper than GDDR6 (how much cheaper is it, anyway?). If we then take into account what the rumour said about buying cheaper rejected chips and using InFO_MS to improve those chips and avoid the interposer cost, along with what you said about the HBM2 dropping in price quicker over time, would this solution really cost any more than 24GB of GDDR6? And if it did, would the cost be a huge issue given the space savings and the extra power that could be allocated to the GPU?
Mhm, good points. I think folk are overlooking the role DDR4 plays in all this.

I think the advantages HBM gives with space and GPU power are worth it.

After reading the matt booty interview about the goal to release a First party game every 2 3 months on game pass , I kinda got the feeling that MS is done with AAA games .AA games released quickly is their model due to nature of gamepass (and their recent studio acquisitions also shows samething kinda, small AA studios).

Isn't that a bit alarming to Xbox gamers ?? AAA games take 4 to 5 years minimum . And sacrificing quality for quantity should not be objective of the platform holder.

Anyways this doesn't speak well to me but hey I haven't been their target audience since 2011 so maybe Xbox gamers are fine with this .
Right, it seems Halo/Forza/Gears will be the obvious mainstays while the rest buffer the lineup with AA content. These new studios are not equipped to deliver a big AAA experience yet. I think MS will attempt to nurture them toward that though. It makes sense to start small and see who can grow into something more.

Of course, consistently released smaller games meshes well with GamePass. So, I also wouldn’t be surprised if MS just keeps these new studios doing that for a long while.

It will be interesting to see it play out.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,848

Ruslnis

Member
Feb 26, 2018
1,843

RevengeTaken

Member
Aug 12, 2018
1,279
Only one thing can approve this rumor, only if ps4 refresh is coming around September for 199 !
 

Lausebub

Member
Nov 4, 2017
320
Right, it seems Halo/Forza/Gears will be the obvious mainstays while the rest buffer the lineup with AA content. These new studios are not equipped to deliver a big AAA experience yet. I think MS will attempt to nurture them toward that though. It makes sense to start small and see who can grow into something more.

Of course, consistently released smaller games meshes well with GamePass. So, I also wouldn’t be surprised if MS just keeps these new studios doing that for a long while.

It will be interesting to see it play out.
They also have Fable, the Initiative and Rare, who will do AAA stuff. And i could see Ninja Theory and Obsidian develope some AAA games.
 

PunkMilitia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
261
I feel the community need to discuss this whole 8k thing. There is no way we will see games running 8k/60fps out of these predicted specs, unless some form of checkerboard system is in play.

Either that, or games won't graphically improve and just get res bumps for each console.

XB S - 800p/60fps
XBX - 1800p/60fps
XB3 - 8K(checkerboard)/30fps