Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

What do you think could be the memory setup of your preferred console, or one of the new consoles?


  • Total voters
    1,066

AegonSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,184
BTW, this was the controlled leak i think. They got a lot of things right and they assumed the PS5 was going to be 8 tflops. Is this before or after the first gonzolo leak? This was in January. I wonder if MS is responsible for leaking 8 tflops lol.


Look at all those crossgen games. i think they were trying to tell us something. ;p
 

DukeBlueBall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,217
Seattle, WA
BTW, this was the controlled leak i think. They got a lot of things right and they assumed the PS5 was going to be 8 tflops. Is this before or after the first gonzolo leak? This was in January. I wonder if MS is responsible for leaking 8 tflops lol.


Look at all those crossgen games. i think they were trying to tell us something. ;p
This is a post made Albert Penello first day after leaving Microsoft.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,187
I refuse to believe MS thought Sony was launching in 2019...they cannot be that dumb.
I don’t believe it either.

With the way that the ps4 is selling.

Also, a year head start for Sony would usher in another PS2 gen. The snowball effect would already have started before Microsoft had even got their console on the shelves. And they both know it.

Sony would have no need to worry too much about the specs. The brand plus the head start would do the rest. If they had planned this year, they would have launched.

As many people point out time and time again on here, having the most powerful console does not guarantee the win.
 

DukeBlueBall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,217
Seattle, WA
I refuse to believe that's a legit ms controlled leak. 12 gigs of ram, even if it were 2019? If it were real ms must just have the lowest opinion of Sony as a hardware manufacturer
SSD doubles as ram cache so you don't need much ram. Not unreasonable if there is 2-4GB of DDR4 for OS.

All the specs are reasonable given the price points.

The MS AI is completely made up.
 

console lover

Member
Feb 19, 2018
5,252
I think both are true.

Sony's decision was more foolish.
Then they legit have a horshoe stuck up their asses that they were basically forced through delays out of their control to release a console at the same time as MS within the same envelope of power. With the added benefit that MS went ALL in on being the most powerful to the point that if they're even negligibly even people will lose with their minds. With an added possible benefit of getting MS to shitcan a lower end sku which is just wasted r&d money
 

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,904
I remember Digital Foundry mentioned hearing a rumor that PS5 would use Jaguar again. I wonder if MS heard the same thing and that was the basis of their confidence regarding hardware. 🤔

This would be the second generation in a row where ms has underestimated the power Sony was aiming for
only reason I doubt this is because it would insinuate that Sony basically took a 2019 design....and in 18 months was able to repurpose that design into something very similiar or above an Xbox 2. That's just being straight up out engineered at that point
 

giblet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
55
Guys.
SSD's will never make up for RAM, ever. Never ever, ever ever. They have crap latency and lower speeds.

Smart developers know this, which is why they use memory-mapping to disk and page swapping.

SSDs are a game changer in this regard.

Remember RAGE? If it had SSDs, and the hardware acceleration we have today, it would be glorious.

It is not, however, a replacement for RAM.

But, lets just say we can access SVO (or BVH) on SSDs very effectively with memory mapped files.
 

Ruslnis

Member
Feb 26, 2018
1,828
BTW, this was the controlled leak i think. They got a lot of things right and they assumed the PS5 was going to be 8 tflops. Is this before or after the first gonzolo leak? This was in January. I wonder if MS is responsible for leaking 8 tflops lol.


Look at all those crossgen games. i think they were trying to tell us something. ;p
This rumor is false. Those studio acquisition list makes 0 sense
And the hardware numbers dont add up on the Navi side + Directx RT

All this talk about MS cancelling Lockhart and them thinking Sony gonna go 2019 is kinda far fetched Imo. I dont think they are that reactionary. MS probably got the strategy decided couple years ago and they are working towards it no matter whats Sony doing.

Remind me - info about 2019 plans from Sony originated from who? Matt? Benji?
 

console lover

Member
Feb 19, 2018
5,252
I remember Digital Foundry mentioned hearing a rumor that PS5 would use Jaguar again. I wonder if MS heard the same thing and that was the basis of their confidence regarding hardware. 🤔



Unfathomable, and yet digital foundry is careful to vet things. So they were able to repurpose a console in essentially 18ish months to match or surpass Microsoft? That would be insane
 

AudiophileRS

Member
Apr 14, 2018
117
Regarding the 8GB HBM2 rumour vs the possible 24GB GDDR6; it's worth noting it's not a straight bandwidth comparison of 512GB/s vs 672GB/s:

The HBM solution is filling 8GB @ 512GB/s which gives you bandwidth per GB of 64GB/s, whereas the GDDR solution is filling 24GB @ 672GB/s which gives a bandwidth per GB of 28GB/s. Each GB -- or whatever arbitrary unit you wish to use -- is being moved 2.3x faster.

Whether 8GB at any speed is enough capacity for bandwidth sensitive tasks is of course another question..?


PS5 | HBM2 8GB + DDR4 16GB | Combined UMA

Pros:
  • Reduced CPU<>GPU Memory Contention
  • HBM: 2.3x Bandwidth Per GB
  • DDR: Access & Latency Better Suited to CPU
  • Can default to a single memory pool using HBCC (or similar) while providing multiple layers of abstraction/management for further optimisation.
  • Reduced physical footprint, power consumption and thermals which may allow for a slightly more performant CPU/GPU.
Cons:
  • HBM: Reduced Overall Capacity for Bandwidth Sensitive Tasks
  • DDR: Only Suited to Low Bandwidth Tasks
  • Flexibility and ability to compete with a single 24GB UMA depends entirely on the effectiveness of HBCC (or similar) or optimisation by devs if bypassed.
  • Increased I/O Complexity

16+16 would be my pipedream and a no brainer if possible! :p
 
Last edited:
Jan 17, 2019
703
The problem is, that HBM2 + DDR4 has not the same bandwidith.

24GB GDDR6 RAM 14Gbps on a 386bit bus has a total bandwith of 672GB/s
HBM2 in a 2 stack (2*4GB) configuration at 1000MHz on a 2048 bit bus has a total bandwidth of 512GB/s
So you still need 160GB/s bandwidth with your DDR4 RAM solution to match GDDR6
And that would be a 256 bit interface with 5000MHz DDR4 RAM (8* 2GB)
Regarding the 8GB HBM2 rumour vs the possible 24GB GDDR6; it's worth noting it's not a straight bandwidth comparison of 512GB/s vs 672GB/s:
Aren't 24 GB of GDDR6 out of equation in new Xbox because there are 2 different memory sizes noticed in teaser?
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
940
St Kitts
We don't really know how much "keep it in memory just in case" really takes. For instance, Spider-man loads most of the stuff around him in real time from the HDD. It starts by streaming from the HDD a 20MB tile for every 128 meters (it's actually 3 tiles so it's 60MB) while the rest slowly streams from the HDD too in order to increase quality (for instance higher mip textures or storefronts). So what will an SSD do for Spider-man 2? They can make each tile data a lot bigger for a denser scene or they can make Spider-man go faster for game-play purposes, or they can strike a balance between them. But memory wise? I'm not sure that the Spider-man presentation showed us any evidence for big savings in memory space if they had faster HDD. It will remove duplications which take more than 10GB on the BR disk (I'm actually not sure about that because SSD read sequential data x10 faster) but I'm not sure it will be a big memory saver. It will save memory space, that's for sure, but I really can't tell how much.

I think that the most important fact is that it can feed the RAM really fast, that's the game changer. No more loading FMVs or long corridors :)
I completely agree. I, after all, have no idea whatever that "keep in memory just in case" size is. But yeah, you are right.... I was able to dig up RAM usage in KZ:SF on the PS4. Back whn they were using only like 4.5GB for games.



 

Decade_2050

Member
May 19, 2019
4
I would hope that they would still keep enough memory to support external storage which is not SSD,. Has anyone heard if MS or Sony will even support external storage next gen ?
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,795
Then they legit have a horshoe stuck up their asses that they were basically forced through delays out of their control to release a console at the same time as MS within the same envelope of power. With the added benefit that MS went ALL in on being the most powerful to the point that if they're even negligibly even people will lose with their minds. With an added possible benefit of getting MS to shitcan a lower end sku which is just wasted r&d money
As Chamber said below, it lines up with the rumor DF heard of Sony using Jaguar again. It seems like they were just going to essentially keep that PS4 ball rolling because of how successful it was. Just ramp it all up technology wise.

Microsoft's Snek would have clobbered the PS5 in that scenario.

I remember Digital Foundry mentioned hearing a rumor that PS5 would use Jaguar again. I wonder if MS heard the same thing and that was the basis of their confidence regarding hardware. 🤔
Yep, I think that is what may have happened.

Unfathomable, and yet digital foundry is careful to vet things. So they were able to repurpose a console in essentially 18ish months to match or surpass Microsoft? That would be insane
lol

Cerny is damn good at what he does, after all. Assuming this is all true, Sony dodged one heck of a bullet and also had the perfect guy to steer them back on course.
 

DukeBlueBall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,217
Seattle, WA
Is this the first Pastebin leak to mention SSD drives?

Posted on DEC 3RD, 2018

Things that it got right:

8 core Zen
Navi
Nand Flash mention
Q2 2019 small reveal: (This was posted by RuthenicCookie first so it might just be piggybacking off him)

Things that it got wrong:
Navi being power efficient.
HDD mention. I don't believe a dev would mix up HDD and SSD.

Things that it missed:
HDR in PSVR2.
The customization of SSD and how core the SSD is.

Things that are unknown but sounds incredulous:
14 TF: Knowing how bad Navi is at pushing flops, this seems suspicious
Steam analog trackpad on the controllers replacing the joy sticks: Not sure if they want to risk an iconic joystick design.
 
Last edited:

AudiophileRS

Member
Apr 14, 2018
117
Aren't 24 GB of GDDR6 out of equation in new Xbox because there are 2 different memory sizes noticed in teaser?
Assuming that's the case we'd still be looking at 1.7-1.9x per GB for capacities of 18-20GB.

I wonder how Sony/MS are going to handle the OS reserve on these consoles considering the current consoles are already using 3-4GB and we're pretty much certain to see a much small RAM increase this gen. Perhaps using a mix of RAM and Virtual RAM on the SSD?
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,795
Regarding the 8GB HBM2 rumour vs the possible 24GB GDDR6; it's worth noting it's not a straight bandwidth comparison of 512GB/s vs 672GB/s:

The HBM solution is filling 8GB @ 512GB/s which gives you bandwidth per GB of 64GB/s, whereas the GDDR solution is filling 24GB @ 672GB/s which gives a bandwidth per GB of 28GB/s. Each GB -- or whatever arbitrary unit you wish to use -- is being moved 2.3x faster.

Whether 8GB at any speed is enough capacity for bandwidth sensitive tasks is of course another question..?


PS5 | HBM2 8GB + DDR4 16GB | Combined UMA

Pros:

  • Reduced CPU<>GPU Memory Contention
  • HBM: 2.3x Bandwidth Per GB
  • DDR: Access & Latency Better Suited to CPU
  • Can default to a single memory pool using HBCC (or similar) while providing multiple layers of abstraction/management for further optimisation.
  • Reduced physical footprint, power consumption and thermals which may allow for a slightly more performant CPU/GPU.
Cons:

  • HBM: Reduced Overall Capacity for Bandwidth Sensitive Tasks
  • DDR: Only Suited to Low Bandwidth Tasks
  • Flexibility and ability to compete with a single 24GB UMA depends entirely on the effectiveness of HBCC (or similar) or optimisation by devs if bypassed.
  • Increased I/O Complexity

16+16 would be my pipedream and a no brainer if possible! :p
Thanks for the breakdown!
 

elzeus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,244
I would hope that they would still keep enough memory to support external storage which is not SSD,. Has anyone heard if MS or Sony will even support external storage next gen ?
Microsoft has hinted at externals but haven't said if they will be able to run the newer games. I thought about it and think it will go something like this...

Old gen game no enhancement patch -> can run off of external
Old gen game with enhancement patch + new gen games -> must be installed on main storage
New speed approved externals possibly could run old enhanced + new gen games

There probably will be some kind of background software that moves your most played games to the internal so you won't have to wait for them to transfer over.
 

BradGrenz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
861
User Banned (2 Weeks): Inflammatory accusations and multiple previous infractions for trolling
I remember Digital Foundry mentioned hearing a rumor that PS5 would use Jaguar again. I wonder if MS heard the same thing and that was the basis of their confidence regarding hardware. 🤔
I'm pretty sure MS is Digital Fountry's source for PS5 rumors. Same FUD was getting filter through them about the PS4 last year.
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
940
St Kitts
And this is Spider-man's memory setup:


Unfortunatlly, these don't really help us much :)
HAHA! was just thinking the exact same thing. Well at least I guess we can say next gen it would be easier streaming in over 469MB of textures... and everything could have more detail since the number of textures that can be streamed in could literally quadruple.
 

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,904
Let's speculate on the 2019 Jaguar based PS5 🤔

-3.0Ghz Jaguar CPU?
-Downclocked version of the Radeon VII with less CUs?
-12-16GB GDDR6? 8GB HBM2?
-1TB SSD?
 

ppn7

Member
May 4, 2019
92
Did you notice that MS said about the storage solution : SSd used as virtual RAM with HDD. For me it simply means SSD cache solution like intel Optane or Primocache. Using the SSD as cache to boost HDD performance. And maybe some RAM as L1 cache to boost a little more the drive disk
 

Jaypah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,085
MS has been spreading FUD or am I reading these posts wrong?
A Twitter user mentioned Easy Allies questioning whether MS was using controlled leaks, which led to a user questioning whether MS had made a specific leak which happened to have rumored specs for PS5, which led to talk about MS purposely putting out low number specs for PS5. So basically a game of tin-foil-hat-telephone and here we are. Doesn't take much around here.
 

Oluasc

Be more dog!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,744
...
Did you notice that MS said about the storage solution : SSd used as virtual RAM with HDD. For me it simply means SSD cache solution like intel Optane or Primocache. Using the SSD as cache to boost HDD performance. And maybe some RAM as L1 cache to boost a little more the drive disk
40X over HDD is possible with Virtual Ram?