Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

What do you think could be the memory setup of your preferred console, or one of the new consoles?


  • Total voters
    1,051

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,920
2:20

"When we launch Project Scarlett you'll be able to play all of the Xbox One games you own, but in fact four generations of games, this has never been done before,And you'll get all the benefits of the speed and graphical performance upgrades that come with project scarlett"

Did he just confirm enhanced backwards compatibility on the Scarlett?

[email protected] remasters of 4 generations of Xbox games perhaps?
I wouldn’t go that far, but it is telling they already moved the BC team on. Scarlett should be able to equal the Xbox One X out of the box because of the shared architectures. They can just brute force it. If they’re working on BC now, it’s to enhance performance beyond equalling X1X IMO.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,678
Europe
Has Richard discussed his info from his meeting with AMD re: PS5 (and maybe Scarlett)?
I am a bit puzzled cause he said he will talk with AMD PR people about next gen consoles,or something like that,right?
I wonder what makes him think AMD will discuss those things publicly...it's odd. Lisa & co. were very careful with their next gen console statements.I can't believe they will suddenly go into tech details without Sony/MS talking first about it.
 

Nivek

Member
Apr 24, 2019
51
They said Hardware Ray Tracing. That might be cores, that might be specifically engineered hardware outside of the core that just do RT, who knows! It's Hardware Based, therefore it's the best option for high performance RT.
Yeah but even software accelerated ray tracing has to run on HARDWARE too.
So seems like RT Cores is the gold standard.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
2,337
I am a bit puzzled cause he said he will talk with AMD PR people about next gen consoles,or something like that,right?
I wonder what makes him think AMD will discuss those things publicly...it's odd. Lisa & co. were very careful with their next gen console statements.I can't believe they will suddenly go into tech details without Sony/MS talking first about it.
From what Richard said right at the end of the last DF Direct, he and others poured over the slides and how they relate specifically to PS5 and maybe Scarlett.

My immediate thoughts went back to the rumours of Navi being made for PS5. I've always thought that was wrong and more think it was confused because Sony simply started work with AMD on PS5 first.

Hopefully later today we get the video.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,146
United Kingdom
I wouldn’t go that far, but it is telling they already moved the BC team on. Scarlett should be able to equal the Xbox One X out of the box because of the shared architectures. They can just brute force it. If they’re working on BC now, it’s to enhance performance beyond equalling X1X IMO.
One would assume the perf 8x Zen 2 cores gives them should allow them to eventually be able to emulate XB360 fully -- so provide a universal emulator that runs every game at full speed.

I guess the eDRAM+ROPs arrangement of the 360 may inject some timing inconsistencies that might still cause issues in some games? I dunno
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,132
I guess the eDRAM+ROPs arrangement of the 360 may inject some timing inconsistencies that might still cause issues in some games? I dunno
I think it's pretty clear most of the hangups are not technical but licensing (in terms of number of available titles). On tech side the uprez method doesn't look to work in a generic manner, but I guess people wouldn't mind giving that up on most titles if it meant access to the whole library?
 
Feb 10, 2018
11,655
Some posters convinced themselves that 14 to 16 TFLOPS consoles were not only possible but very likely for next-gen.

So of course the AMD reveal shattered those dreams.

Imagine auditioning for X-factor after convincing yourself you're gonna be the next beyonce, and then Simon Cowell tell you to "go home, you can't sing!".... imagine the mental trauma lol
I'm sure you already know this.
But ppl wanting 14tflops were talking about GCN tflops.
The 5700xt is more powerful then an RTX 2070 which trades blows with a vega 7 which is a 13.82TFLOP gpu.

So if we do get a 5700 or 5700xt gpu in next gen we will be getting 12 - 14 gcn tflop performance.

So basicly, they did it, sony + ms are going for the high end of most predictions here.

People should be very happy.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,146
United Kingdom
I think it's pretty clear most of the hangups are not technical but licensing (in terms of number of available titles). On tech side the uprez method doesn't look to work in a generic manner, but I guess people wouldn't mind giving that up on most titles if it meant access to the whole library?
In the case of a universal platform emulator, I don't think game licenses can even restrict playback. I would guess they can restrict re-sale for a new platform or distribution on new distribution platforms, but games already sold and in public circulation can be played on anything that will run them. So if MS is able to provide an OS-level emulator that makes XB2 behave like a 360, gamers can play what they like on it.

XB1's current BC approach isn't a universal platform emulator though.

I'm sure you already know this.
But ppl wanting 14tflops were talking about GCN tflops.
The 5700xt is more powerful then an RTX 2070 which trades blows with a vega 7 which is a 13.82TFLOP gpu.

So if we do get a 5700 or 5700xt gpu in next gen we will be getting 12 - 14 gcn tflop performance.

So basicly, they did it, sony + ms are going for the high end of most predictions here.

People should be very happy.
Sure, but it didn't stop folks meltdowns in this very thread.
 

Fastidioso

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,437
From what Richard said right at the end of the last DF Direct, he and others poured over the slides and how they relate specifically to PS5 and maybe Scarlett.

My immediate thoughts went back to the rumours of Navi being made for PS5. I've always thought that was wrong and more think it was confused because Sony simply started work with AMD on PS5 first.

Hopefully later today we get the video.
Doubt they could reveal concretely something more about the ps5 if not just some of their presumptions.
 

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,904
I'm sure you already know this.
But ppl wanting 14tflops were talking about GCN tflops.
The 5700xt is more powerful then an RTX 2070 which trades blows with a vega 7 which is a 13.82TFLOP gpu.

So if we do get a 5700 or 5700xt gpu in next gen we will be getting 12 - 14 gcn tflop performance.

So basicly, they did it, sony + ms are going for the high end of most predictions here.

People should be very happy.
I don't know, certain people were still having meltdowns even with the 5700/5700 XT benchmarks staring them right in the face. I think some are just married to the idea of having double digit TFLOP numbers, otherwise I don't know why anyone would be upset with getting ~2070 performance in a next gen console.
 

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,084
I don't know, certain people were still having meltdowns even with the 5700/5700 XT benchmarks staring them right in the face. I think some are just married to the idea of having double digit TFLOP numbers, otherwise I don't know why anyone would be upset with getting ~2070 performance in a next gen console.
Yep. Some posters in this thread basically prove why MS and Sony should go with multipliers rather than tflops for marketing.

We seem to be getting great next gen consoles and some folks still lost their minds over the number.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,780
I don't know, certain people were still having meltdowns even with the 5700/5700 XT benchmarks staring them right in the face. I think some are just married to the idea of having double digit TFLOP numbers, otherwise I don't know why anyone would be upset with getting ~2070 performance in a next gen console.
All you got to do is put into perspective the games we got this gen with the flops from this gen.

Just think about it.

But just out of curiosity, what is ~2070 performance wise?
 

Saberus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
33
Vancouver, BC
Some posters convinced themselves that 14 to 16 TFLOPS consoles were not only possible but very likely for next-gen.

So of course the AMD reveal shattered those dreams.

Imagine auditioning for X-factor after convincing yourself you're gonna be the next beyonce, and then Simon Cowell tell you to "go home, you can't sing!".... imagine the mental trauma lol
Oh shit... lol
 
Feb 10, 2018
11,655
I don't know, certain people were still having meltdowns even with the 5700/5700 XT benchmarks staring them right in the face. I think some are just married to the idea of having double digit TFLOP numbers, otherwise I don't know why anyone would be upset with getting ~2070 performance in a next gen console.
So people would rather have 12 gcn tflops then 8.5 RDNA tflops?
Because that is incredibly stupid, I cant believe people here don't understand RDNA tflops are significantly superior to gcn tflops.
 

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,904
All you got to do is put into perspective the games we got this gen with the flops from this gen.

Just think about it.

But just out of curiosity, what is ~2070 performance wise?
In AMD terms its between Vega 64 and their top end Radeon VII, probably closer to Radeon VII. In console terms, let's say ~7x base PS4.

So people would rather have 12 gcn tflops then 8.5 RDNA tflops?
Because that is incredibly stupid, I cant believe people here don't understand RDNA tflops are significantly superior to gcn tflops.
It's why if folks are waiting on Sony/MS to give them a TFLOP number, they might be waiting quite awhile. I expect Sony to talk in terms of performance multipliers as well.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,901
If they can hit an approximation of 13 'GCN TFs' but can't come out and say 13TF because it isn't technically, then they can use a nice clean 10x previous gen, using XB1 as the baseline measure. 10x GPU is a pretty great jump
 

BeImonkey

Member
Dec 9, 2017
1,170
If they can hit an approximation of 13 'GCN TFs' but can't come out and say 13TF because it isn't technically, then they can use a nice clean 10x previous gen, using XB1 as the baseline measure. 10x GPU is a pretty great jump
I have a hard time seeing how that would happen though, considering their new ~10 TFLOP card is going to be $450 alone. Unless we're expecting a huge jump in shaders and prices in the next year.
 

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,904
The 1.25x GCN number AMD put out there is actually underselling things if you compare it the 2060/2070 benchmarks they used on stage. I'm interested to see reviewers actually get their hands on the 5700/5700 XT though.
 

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
867
I did find it somewhat interesting at least that Microsoft did not specifically mention an 8-core Zen 2 CPU, and there is this note from a Windows Central article today - https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-building-xbox-scarlett-be-best-console-says-xbox-head-phil-spencer:

"There are rumors floating around that Scarlett features a 12-core processor compared to the 8-core one found in the PS5, but nothing has been confirmed yet. As with any such leak, take it with a grain of salt until we receive official confirmation and both parties confirm specifications."
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,920
If they can hit an approximation of 13 'GCN TFs' but can't come out and say 13TF because it isn't technically, then they can use a nice clean 10x previous gen, using XB1 as the baseline measure. 10x GPU is a pretty great jump
GCN evolved a lot over the course of consoles. Vega may not be great, but it’s a lot faster than early GCN. They should be able to easily claim 10X X1S.
 

lynux3

Member
Oct 28, 2017
249
I did find it somewhat interesting at least that Microsoft did not specifically mention an 8-core Zen 2 CPU, and there is this note from a Windows Central article today - https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-building-xbox-scarlett-be-best-console-says-xbox-head-phil-spencer:

"There are rumors floating around that Scarlett features a 12-core processor compared to the 8-core one found in the PS5, but nothing has been confirmed yet. As with any such leak, take it with a grain of salt until we receive official confirmation and both parties confirm specifications."
"Hopefully Scarlett will be the most powerful console than the PS5."

It's hard to take this guy seriously.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,803
Somewhere South
what if:

When they made the prediction, it was probably accurate. If up until mid 2018 sony was planning on a 2019 release, MS would've launched a year later with newer hardware ala oneX vs PRO and it would've paid off. Unfortunately AMD announced NAVI is not on schedule, plans fell through and both had to rethink their plans.
I think it's much more likely that Sony had two development tracks, one aiming for 2019 a bit further ahead and one, a bit behind in the dev cycle, aiming at 2020. At least one of companies we work with (not in the gaming sphere, mind you) has multiple dev tracks for most of their major products up to a certain point, I'd imagine something much bigger, more expensive and, specially, as important as PS is for Sony, must follow a similar path.

They wouldnt have said 4x faster in this case but 6x faster.
And if they had a clear "win" over the scant hard info Cerny gave about the PS5, I'd imagine they'd have used it.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
3,647
I did find it somewhat interesting at least that Microsoft did not specifically mention an 8-core Zen 2 CPU, and there is this note from a Windows Central article today - https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-building-xbox-scarlett-be-best-console-says-xbox-head-phil-spencer:

"There are rumors floating around that Scarlett features a 12-core processor compared to the 8-core one found in the PS5, but nothing has been confirmed yet. As with any such leak, take it with a grain of salt until we receive official confirmation and both parties confirm specifications."
They wouldnt have said 4x faster in this case but 6x faster.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,803
Somewhere South
That said, Scarlett going with 12 CPU cores instead of 8 could definitely explain how PS5 could theoretically be more powerful - more area available to be dedicated to GPU.

I'm inclined to think that'd be overkill, though.
 

Ruslnis

Member
Feb 26, 2018
1,820
I did find it somewhat interesting at least that Microsoft did not specifically mention an 8-core Zen 2 CPU, and there is this note from a Windows Central article today - https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-building-xbox-scarlett-be-best-console-says-xbox-head-phil-spencer:

"There are rumors floating around that Scarlett features a 12-core processor compared to the 8-core one found in the PS5, but nothing has been confirmed yet. As with any such leak, take it with a grain of salt until we receive official confirmation and both parties confirm specifications."
WindowsCentral trying to damage control. What a sight

Anyway with this in mind. With MS and Sony probably being really close to each other in GPU power what do you think will be the main HW differences between the 2?
I think for Sony its gonna be custom SSD and for MS - more custom CPU.
 

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
867
I personally doubt that Scarlett has 12 cores too, but all they said was that there were some rumors out there somewhere about it. There could even be some confusion somewhere because there are some additional dedicated cores for RT or something. The bottom line is that we are all sorting through nothing but rumors and such at this point, so calling out a site and folks that are simply fans of one platform and yet have had some legitimate Xbox info in the past as being "biased" is just laughable. We are all biased toward something, and this thread sure is filled with it all over the place of course :)
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,101
Amazing how they only publish that "rumor" after Reiner tweeted his about PS5 a few days back. Windows Central indeed.
 

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
867
WindowsCentral trying to damage control. What a sight

Anyway with this in mind. With MS and Sony probably being really close to each other in GPU power what do you think will be the main HW differences between the 2?
I think for Sony its gonna be custom SSD and for MS - more custom CPU.
I actually think that you may be right on the Sony SSD vs. Microsoft CPU thing. I personally would be more in favor of CPU customization on the Xbox side as long as the use of SSD in general on the Xbox side gives the expected dramatic load time differences anyway. I can live with a slight difference in those areas in favor of better processing to maintain frame rate (Spencer mentions this repeatedly when discussing Scarlett) and deal with AI and physics etc.