Yeah this has me especially worried. We could get a much weaker console at the same price all because Trump's Tariffs. As that's how the tariffs work.
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Yeah this has me especially worried. We could get a much weaker console at the same price all because Trump's Tariffs. As that's how the tariffs work.
Thing is, CPU needs to keep up with 60fps too so a lot of games won't be able to hit 60 if they are designed around 33ms CPU frame time. But I do agree that games that don't utilize the CPU much should offer that.
That's something that a few more hundreds of MB of memory could also solve but yeah, an SSD will probably be able to get it to memory fast enough.
Both Aaron Greenberg and Phil Spencer had dodged every "do you have more than one console" question during E3. If Lockheart was shelved, they wouldn't have dodged them.
Seems crazy to me that Nex Gen Consoles would have the same CU's as Xbox One X, despite going from 16nm to 7nm.
My theory has been that the first new Xbox will actually be Lockhart but with competitive specs to the PS5 and then Microsoft will announced the Andaconda a year or two later with much higher specs then PS5. Microsoft NEVER said that this new console was Andaconda. Didn't even use codenames. I think this may be Microsoft's strategy.
Depends on the res.
Running a game at 4k and 1080p take drastically different GPU requirements.
If it is shelved it's not something they're going to rush to admit, that would be a PR disaster to basically say that Sony's plans changing pushed them to change their strategy. I guess if thats what happened it'll be years before anyone officially says that's what happened.
This doesn't make sense as a strategy. Why would any Xbox enthusiast by the 2020 console that'll get invalidated by the one a year later?
Who knows. It's just a possible theory and may not even hold any weight. I just think it's weird that they have not denied that they canceled the other lower powered console and have not said much about it at all. Maybe Lockhart with be an Xbox Switch. ;)
All that hype for a sandwich strategy just to get shelved, wonder what caused this
They never said there would be 2 consoles. They don't have to say they shelved a console that possibly never existed.
Exactly..... I mean we can't even officially say that Sony had any plans for a 2019 PS5 being that sony didn't say a single thing about PS5 till this year.
Oh, not this (kinda thing) again. I guess we can also say they never said they will have the most powerful console either.
I think something IN MS messaging clearly suggested that there will be "multiple next-gen Xboxes". Everyone didn't just wake up one day and start saying or expecting more than one Xbox. There is a reason why at every interview the question comes up.
If we are to go with MS didn't actually say that? then there is something very wrong with MS general messaging.
I would rather a company flat out say, "yh, we were going to do that but decided against it and felt it was best to focus on one instead" or "yeah, we set out to make the most powerful box but decided to focus on our strengths and make an all-around great device. If that ends up being the most powerful then so be it." Than for them to come and talk like they never said this or that. To me that just comes off as dishonest or misleading.
Or better yet, just keep your mouth shut and only talk when you have something to actually say/show. Half the time it feels MS is that attention seeking kid at school that sneaks his (or even his brothers) toys to school so everyone can look at him.
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This is true too. It was never an official thing. So it can easily be swept under the rug.
Well, I think it might be more likely for them to seek production contracts within Southeast Asia. We'll probably see more expensive consoles this generation anyway, with affordable options being more aligned with game streaming on cheaper devices.
The bigger issue for console manufacturers has to do with the instability of global production at the moment. It's the unpredictable market circumstances that are probably doing the most harm here.
Rather than one machine, Microsoft were running their simulations on multiple, and over a long period of time. They surely were cranking away at the work. But we know that a large portion of their total testing was to ensure backwards compatibility wasn't broken, not to drive new hardware designs with unique benefits. And given what they said about their changes, the remainder doesn't seem to have concentrated on that path either.
At this point, I should pause to clarify the point I'm making. Let me be clear that I'm not here to downplay the amount of effort involved from Microsoft. They put in a shitload of work, and it shows in the results, One X being a great machine. What I'm saying is that all this work wasn't tied to a fundamental, transistor-level rearrangement of what AMD had already done. It was more the standard process for their semi-custom business: a customer choosing from among available AMD tech and balancing it as desired. (Along with some minor logic changes to better support the profiled needs.) Therefore, repeated enthusiastic language by either partner about collaboration, as now with Scarlett, isn't necessarily an indication of a different approach.
"All" definitely not. But it seems even more naive to me to believe they'd specifically tailor their initial PR push around how much customization they did, and then only mention the least-important, least-custom changes they made.
Microsoft said they spent $100m updating the Xbox controller, and the result wasn't a powerful restructuring of how we think of or interface with gamepads. It's very possible to spend oodles of time and effort on business questions, just to end up with a boring (but effective) answer. I've been involved with such projects myself, and I'm sure you have too. Indeed, I contend it's safe to assume that every project by a major corporation has immense input of man-hours and skill. Even the ones that end up stupid or shitty. Effort doesn't equate to novelty.
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but its much higher clocks, and tdp numbers dont lie. like it or not, amd's chip isnt that efficient.
Maybe Lockhart is the basis for their future streaming plans, assuming that using Anaconda specs would be overkill for a streaming platform.
I'd love as high a base level for next gen as possible. Give developers the best possible canvases to do their work.
That is all I ask.
I want it so we get as close as possible to getting the gameplay ideas and scope devs desire.
For all we know, Lockhart could JUST be a streaming box which may not come out until a later time which may be why it hasn't been announced yet. All we can do is guess at this point.
Because the clocks are too high..
So you add more CU and lower the clocks a bit..
the rtx 2070 has a tdp of 175 on 12nm. navi is just less efficient, turing which is 15% more power per watt efficient than last gen amd has a long way to go.
So I guess that hmqq & Klob weren't the insiders everyone thought because they both posted tons of stuff about Lockhart/Anaconda being separate devices.
Currently there is no talk of Lockhart not existing, but that it was dropped. Guess we will never know which until multiple years later. MS certainly isn't going to talk about it any time soon.
This is really the critical time to drop Lockhart if that was what they wanted, as any later, and planning for hardware production would have to begin.
Every xbox insider did. Whats funny is right before e3 when brad sams and that warren guy were calling each other out for spreading news about products microsoft were working on that they never released.
Completely irrelevant in regards to predicting next gen Console specs
Lolinsiders... I think it's pretty clear to say not a single one of them knew what was coming. And now they will all go silent only to show up again next year if there is in deed a Lock announcement claiming they knew it all along.
Lockhart being cancelled means Anaconda gets weaker most likely.
But now we're seeing posts ITT saying that
And yet so many insiders said there were, and even posted images of 'documents' & whiteboards and ppt slides to show it.
Even in his E3 interviews Phil was using 'consoles' plural in his wording and there are a number of posts ITT and others using those comments as evidence when the first rumour about dropping Lockhart surfaced before Jez' comments.
So I think this level of denial that MS may have sharply changed course flies in the face of a lot of what has been held up ITT as credible evidence.
And yet so many insiders said there were, and even posted images of 'documents' & whiteboards and ppt slides to show it.
Even in his E3 interviews Phil was using 'consoles' plural in his wording and there are a number of posts ITT and others using those comments as evidence when the first rumour about dropping Lockhart surfaced before Jez' comments.
So I think this level of denial that MS may have sharply changed course flies in the face of a lot of what has been held up ITT as credible evidence.
Call me crazy, but for me I see it as a confirmation as good as any that the PS5 is better than Ana. Even if just marginally.
I want to believe that MS whole lock and ana plan was to create some sort of power sandwich over the PS5 (even if that's not how I would have done it). What likely happened is that they found out that the PS5 was more powerful and that threw a wrench in their plans. So now their focus is to make their one console (ana) as good as it can be.
Its also possible that during their most recent cost analysis they discovered that there was no way they could make a cheaper Lockhart with a good enough price difference for it to be considered as an actual viable option while still sharing all the features that make ana "next-gen". Basically, for lock hart to exist, then it needs to be $300 to a $499 Ana... anything more and it would just be considered as the SKU not to get and how you should just save up %a little more for the"better version".
I don't even think it will be either. I think Ana will still be whatever it was set out to be. just believe that now they have a very solid bead n what sony is doing, and whatever that is was enough to make them change their plans. Makes no sense having two SKUs and both of them are weaker than the PS5. MS is better off releasing one console that is 1TF weaker than the PS5, than releasing two SKUs of which the more powerful SKU is 0.3TF weaker.
These things are weird like that.
I think MS believed Sony would be cheaper ($399) and possibly release in 2019 to coincide with the node shrink, and so they wanted to have a cheaper version while also being able to go big on power. Basically they assumed the playbook for PS5 would mimick the playbook for PS4 Pro.
Now that they realize Sony likely won't undercut them on price, it puts less pressure on MS to have a cheaper console.
Also, what you said about cost is very true. Having to pack in Zen, SSD, Navi lite, and GDDR6 (even if it's less), likely won't yield more than $100 cost savings, so they'd need to take a big loss on the cheaper hardware.
I'm wondering if Anaconda isn't as powerful as PS5 because they designed the system to be highly profitable at 499 to offset the loss on a 299 Lockhart, and as a result Anaconda was only designed to be a bit more powerful than a 399 2019 PS5, but not so powerful to fully optimize the power that can be had for 499
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As it was said, there is still quite a bit of time until launch. Now would be the time to make these critical changes. This sort of thing happening closer to launch would be terrible.
Holy heck, this level of stupidity is starting to remind me why I stopped visiting ERA.
I'm trying to wrap my head around what you don't understand. My best guess is that when I say "flops per performance" you just read "flops" and ignore the rest.
Lets say that we are looking at Ghost Recon Wildlands on Ultra running at 1440p. And that the Vega 56 runs at 40 fps avg while the RX 5700 XT runs at 52 fps avg.
Now lets compare the Vega 56 performance per tflop to the RX 5700 XT performance per tflop.
5.3314 fps/tflop RX 5700 XT to 3.7936 fps/tflop Vega 56 ~ 1.405 or a 40.5% increase in performance per tflop in Ghost Recon Wildlands.
So, if you are correct performance per clock gain in Ghost Recon Wildlands @1440p/ultra will not be ~40.5%. But of course, you are wrong. It's the same math.
{52 fps / (1905 MHz * 40 CUs)} / {40 fps / (1471 MHz * 56 CUs)} ~ 1.405 or a 40.5% increase in performance per clock.
These PS5 rumors honestly bother me as a XBOX primary guy. How would Sony manage to create a gulf in performance that would have devs making claims that it's more powerful. I don't think they'd say anything if it was a super close race here. So the only logical assessment is the PS5 is noticably outperforming the XBOX. I'm hoping that it's just because the dev kits are not final because if XBOX got out engineered like that at a similar price point it would be embarrassing. We'll see. I'm intrigued.
I would use game clock. It's not likely they're hitting max boost in that benchmark.
It is absolutely amazing how through pure luck Sony ended up screwing over ms with the pronged strategy. And as far as we're aware (through scuttlebutt) it was a delay not because Sony wanted more power but because of Navi issues, am I getting it right? Could be a combination
Not to make this a thing, but the only time they've released at the same time period with the same tech to pick from, they got out engineered. You can't even compare pro to x because different price targets and a year newer technology. Also, if they really have scrapped the lower end SKU that would indicate to me both devkits are final enough that things can't be changed that much (also rumors of that being case). Cancelling the lower SKU they burned a good chunk on research and dev that is now cannot recouped. That would mean their two prong strategy got busted by a strong or equal system. Also, devs would know better than to say ps5 is stronger than Scarlett if one is final and the other isn't. Theyre not fanboys , they wouldn't misrepresent anything.
I wouldn't think one will noticeably outperform the other at all.
Some people are already providing reasons as to why the next PS is more powerful, as if that hadalready been confirmed. We do not know. ANA could be the more capable of the two; or the difference could be so thin that nobody would be justified in raising the issue in the first. I am not buying the rumors myself, but we shall see...
PS: Or, MS could be slightly less powerful but inclined to take a financial hit and undercut Sony in such a way that the difference in pr formance would not be justified by the price premium. That would be a good move for MS...
PS: Or, MS could be slightly less powerful but inclined to take a financial hit and undercut Sony in such a way that the difference in pr formance would not be justified by the price premium. That would be a good move for MS...
Microsoft has never shown to be willing to lose more on a console than Sony. Don't know why it would start now.
They actually have less incentive, with PC and gamepass they are decoupling software revenue from hardware, they are no longer tied together one to one. So if anything, they could sell at even and not need to take a big loss because they even said themselves, it's not about the most units sold. That tells me everything already
These outlets can get things wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
chris 1515
Well look at that, a sony patent for photon mapping, like you said!
Only Activated yesterday
Well look at that, a sony patent for photon mapping, like you said!
Only Activated yesterday
yup xbox is just one vector for revenue. given ms partnership games pass is very quickly becoming a good deal, even on pc. ms says their target is a 1st party game every 3 months, if they pull it off, no reasson to care about hardware sales.
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