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What do you think could be the memory setup of your preferred console, or one of the new consoles?

  • GDDR6

    Votes: 566 41.0%
  • GDDR6 + DDR4

    Votes: 540 39.2%
  • HBM2

    Votes: 53 3.8%
  • HBM2 + DDR4

    Votes: 220 16.0%

  • Total voters
    1,379
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Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
Do we really want another generation of subpar consoles? With $399 price tags, that's what we'll be getting.
All considered ps4 wasn't that subpar console. Look at the Xbone base performance and again, how ps4 still can handle decent performance compared even the more "brute force" of the ps360 hardware in their last years. That's remarkable with such "dated" hardware.
 
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dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,885
Indeed.
Not to mention Zen2 and Navi 10 will not be new tech anymore in late 2020,costs will go down.Same probably goes for GDDR6.
That's essentially why we're getting these consoles in more than a year from now despite all the tech they'll use already being available now.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
12-15 GCN FLOPS. The Navi -> Vega performance multiplier is still a little iffy but I'm sure we can reach it.

If you directly comparing FLOPS from previous generations of hardware then you can't really account for any GCN to RDNA multiplier because the same correction would have to be done for the older generation hardware.

E.g. the jump from PS3's non-unified shader arch RSX to PS4's GCN Liverpool GPU with unified shaders and async compute is probably 1.5 to 2x realworld performance at the minimum; making that 8x jump you posted actually something more like 12 to 20x in realworld perf.
 
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Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,301
Yeah, the PS4 was a very respectable console both price-wise and engineering-wise based on what was available to Sony from AMD back in 2013.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,838
Australia
Ok, sure... So what makes you think they would actually offer PS1-3 BC tho? They didn't seem to care much about it this gen tbh.

I don't know if they will. But as for why... well, in the case of PS3, that wasn't even possible on the PS4, so we don't actually know how much they want to do it. Not having full PS1 and PS2 BC was weird, but it is possible that they didn't see the value when PS3 wasn't there. Having 'BC with all Playstations' is a big feature, while 'PS1 and PS2 games work but not all those PS3 games you bought', not so much. They may have just found it easier to position PS4 as a clean break, but PS5 could have a different message.

There's also PS Now to consider. Having full BC on PS5 would mean not having to make PS3-based servers anymore, and could add value by making every game downloadable (I believe they've said downloads have proven to be more popular than streaming on Now since they added them).
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
The Gamecube failed.
Not because it was a cube.
Or a 4K30 and 1080p60 option.
Actually with next gen, they should be able to do 4K@30fps and always give the option for 4K.cb@60fps.

The 60fps profile will just be a tweaked version of the 30fps one, lower rez textures here and there, lower rez shadows here and there, some LOD tweaks and of course, half the resolution.

I disagree,and i hope you are wrong about this :)
I don' think he's wrong.

Oh, they can be selling at $499 and still be taking a loss on each unit sold. especially when you consider that just the APU and RAM alone can cost them around $300
 
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Sqrt

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,880
Going by history:

Console, Closest GPU, Launch Price.

PS3, 7800 GT, $449
360, Radeon X1800 XT, $449

Ps4, HD 7850, $250
XB1, HD 7770, $160

PS4P, RX 480, $239
XBX, RX 580 , $229

PS5, RX 5700-XT(?), $349-399
Scarlet, RX 5700-XT(?), $349-399
 
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Oct 27, 2017
4,645
What makes you think this? Is there anything to suggest this will be the case? So far Sony has only talked about PS4 BC, and I imagine they would have already mentioned PS1-3 BC of it were in the cards.
Like I said, the jump in CPU is enough that it could be feasible to emulate given that Sony have first hand knowledge of the intricacies of the cell. Also if they do want to build out their streaming portfolio, how much sense will it make to keep producing old hardware vs newer hardware that could serve games from all their previous consoles in one unit?

I'm not going off any insider knowledge or anything. I'm just saying that it makes sense for them to have pursued a solution for PS3 BC. The only place I have my doubts will be in how customer facing that solution will end up being. It might just be for a set of vetted games running on PSNow that they know will work 100% and might not be something they ever announce in that context. Or it could be fully functional and be something they save for an announcement when they do full PS5 reveal.
 

Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
777
Massachusetts, USA
If you directly comparing FLOPS from previous generations of hardware then you can't really account for any GCN to RDNA multiplier because the same correction would have to be done for the older generation hardware.

E.g. the jump from PS3's non-unified shader arch RSX to PS4's GCN Liverpool GPU with unified shaders and async compute is probably 1.5 to 2x realworld performance at the minimum; making that 8x jump you posted actually something more like 12 to 20x in realworld perf.
I see what your saying now. So could we still have a PS3-PS4 sized GPU jump with these factors counted?
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
Screenshot-51.png


Can you explain that pls? is that dollar/mm2? I mean that can't be right cause it would mean a 350mm2 7nm chip would cost around $1400!!!!

Or cents... I think cents makes much more sense. That brings it to like $140.
The Y-Axis is the factor of cost increase. Base 45nm = 100%, 7nm is nearly 4 times the cost of 45nm.
Yup. But this is also a snapshot in time. We know 7nm yields are on a very favorable trajectory.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe
Maybe.....

ETA: The price point of these consoles just might be the 8GB moment of last gen. Everyone faints at how they did it and forgive all "low" specs!

Yup.
Btw,i am very curious about the size of that super-duper SSD in PS5...i wonder if it is something small in 128-256 GB range + HDD for mass storage (that would fit nicely in 399 price).
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,061
Yup.
Btw,i am very curious about the size of that super-duper SSD in PS5...i wonder if it is something small in 128-256 GB range + HDD for mass storage (that would fit nicely in 399 price).

Yes please. Can help keep cost down, makes it simpler to do larger storage versions as refreshes, easier to allow users to add HDD external storage

Lots of pros IMO
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
Yup.
Btw,i am very curious about the size of that super-duper SSD in PS5...i wonder if it is something small in 128-256 GB range + HDD for mass storage (that would fit nicely in 399 price).

Right now I can't see it being anything other than a replacement for the HDD in 1/2TB sizes. Can't see both being inside the system.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe
Yes please. Can help keep cost down, makes it simpler to do larger storage versions as refreshes, easier to allow users to add HDD external storage

Lots of pros IMO

Exactly.Lots of us have large external HDDs with bunch of games already and, with BC confirmed,would be great if we can just plug them in PS5 from day 1.
 

Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
777
Massachusetts, USA
Having a replaceable SSD might be kind of scary (unless it's an SSD+HDD combo where you can replace the HDD size). Insomniac had to develop for the lowest common denominator HDD speeds (20MB/s). We wouldn't want this to happen again.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
Why not? Some small 128-256 GB nand flash soldered on the motherboard plus HDD?

Just from how they described it in the Wired article and at the recent IR Day meeting. The SSD seems to be the focal point.

SSD/HDD just seems messy and neither here nor there and more expensive to do. Maybe that is unfair though?
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
I see what your saying now. So could we still have a PS3-PS4 sized GPU jump with these factors counted?

Lol, no i think you misunderstood. I'm saying the previous generational jump including architectural updades are even bigger than the multipliers you originally posted... meaning your 7 to 10x jump for PS5 including architecture is made to look even worse.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
No way the console will be 399
The same few people who pushed ps5 will be November 2019 despite all the facts and people saying 2020 is now pushing 399 despite everyone hinting at 499.granted Sony might do 449 but 399 is gone big time .

So best is to smile at them and say sure :)
 
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Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
777
Massachusetts, USA
Lol, no i think you misunderstood. I'm saying the previous generational jump including architectural updades are even bigger than the multipliers you originally posted... meaning your 7 to 10x jump for PS5 including architecture is made to look even worse.
Ok, so what your saying is that TFLOPS are a truly meaningless way of comparing power? And that the actual difference in power is much more difficult to calculate?
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,885
I would think both PS5 and Scarlett are getting a large SSD (like 1 TB) not a small SDD + HDD.
Smaller custom soldered SSD (128-256 GBs) acting as a user transparent cache and a scratch pad memory plus a replaceable 2-4 TB HDD would be my current bet. Games would copy the data needed for streaming to SSD at first launch and reuse this copy on consequtive launches. This data would be gradually overwritten by next games you'll launch. Most people don't play more than a couple of games at the same time and it would be a waste to use SSD just for data storage.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe
Smaller custom soldered SSD (128-256 GBs) acting as a user transparent cache and a scratch pad memory plus a replaceable 2-4 TB HDD would be my current bet. Games would copy the data needed for streaming to SSD at first launch and reuse this copy on consequtive launches. This data would be gradually overwritten by next games you'll launch. Most people don't play more than a couple of games at the same time and it would be a waste to use SSD just for data storage.

This.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
The same few people who pushed ps5 will be November 2019 despite all the facts and people saying 2020 is now pushing 399 despite everyone hinting at 499.granted Sony might do 449 but 399 is gone big time .

So best is to smile at them and say sure :)

I clearly remember the GAF thread reaction to 8GB being announced at the PS meeting and what effect it had on price predictions.

Sony PR is damn good.

Nothing will surprise or shock me anyway. If $500/£500 comes to pass I will see if it can justify it. I waited 6 months to buy the PS3 because I didn't feel £425 was worth it at the time.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
I clearly remember the GAF thread reaction to 8GB being announced at the PS meeting and what effect it had on price predictions.

Sony PR is damn good.

Nothing will surprise or shock me anyway. If $500/£500 comes to pass I will see if it can justify it. I waited 6 months to buy the PS3 because I didn't feel £425 was worth it at the time.
True but ps5 will be feature rich as Sony CEO mentioned hehe .both x and ps will be 450 pounds this time around .Sony might do a 400 pound shock and take a bit more loss but that's the max I feel.

We shall see
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
Smaller custom soldered SSD (128-256 GBs) acting as a user transparent cache and a scratch pad memory plus a replaceable 2-4 TB HDD would be my current bet. Games would copy the data needed for streaming to SSD at first launch and reuse this copy on consequtive launches. This data would be gradually overwritten by next games you'll launch. Most people don't play more than a couple of games at the same time and it would be a waste to use SSD just for data storage.
The problem with that is that it will end up costing more than just going with a 1TB SSD soldered directly into the PCB. It's also an all-around more complicated system. Furthermore such a setup all but guarantees that whoever does it cannot run with a no loading times slogan. Cause all you have to do is trying playing a game from your HDD that's like number 5/6 on the last played queue and boom... loading times.
 

Xeontech

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,059
Same argument every gen.

60fps will never be the norm. Devs can just push the graphics envelope so much further at 30.
 

Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
777
Massachusetts, USA
Insomniac stated that when they were developing Spider-Man they had to work with the lowest common denominator HDD speed. That speed being 20MB/s. Wouldn't every other developer have to work with the same constraints?

If next-gen consoles have irreplaceable SSD's then the baseline would be that much higher.
 

sncvsrtoip

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
2,773
Insomniac stated that when they were developing Spider-Man they had to work with the lowest common denominator HDD speed. That speed being 20MB/s. Wouldn't every other developer have to work with the same constraints?

If next-gen consoles have irreplaceable SSD's then the baseline would be that much higher.
Not in every game you can traverse big city with spiderman web swing speed ;)
 

Deleted member 5764

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,574
The Marketing for mid-gen consoles really screwed the pooch on potential marketing for next-gen consoles it se
I clearly remember the GAF thread reaction to 8GB being announced at the PS meeting and what effect it had on price predictions.

Sony PR is damn good.

Nothing will surprise or shock me anyway. If $500/£500 comes to pass I will see if it can justify it. I waited 6 months to buy the PS3 because I didn't feel £425 was worth it at the time.

This is all I can think of when I see these price predictions. I'm prepared for $500, but wouldn't be at all surprised by $399 again.
 

Xostas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
58
Put me on Team $399.

I don't think a SSD(soldered) + HDD is cost effective. I think both Sony and Microsoft can approach their suppliers and negotiate better deals for SSD for their next gen machines because, even though you can't take full advantage of SSD speeds, I would be looking to add SSDs to the PS4/XB1 platforms. The increase in purchasing volume would likely get a better price for both companies.
 
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