Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

What do you think could be the memory setup of your preferred console, or one of the new consoles?


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Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,381
It's not safe to say which has the edge when we know nothing about their clock frequencies etc. lol

It's not important either. It's just pleasing for one set of fanboys vs another.
I think it is my friend, at least at this point.

It's important insofar as, knowing this, MS will try to revert it, and Matt thinks they'll succeed in doing so.

Independently of the outcome, all of this information can help us surmise things like price, which for me is the key puzzle part missing.

So no, it's not important which one ends up on top, but yes, this info is relevant to the discussion in a big way, because I was a firm believer of $399 and now I'm on the $499 due to it
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,226
St Kitts
Perhaps “they gone” because the thread had turned into a “why can’t we just talk about Sony” or “it was better just talking about Sony” whinefest.

Yeah the thread is less of a battleground, because the only people left standing are predominantly Sony guys. For better or worse. I do think that the next gen speculation threads should be separated by platform to lessen the war zone.

Please don’t take my comment as a dig, I am just stating the obvious.

Let the dogpiling commence. Lol
funny thing is... talk like this is exactly what makes things like console waring a thing... and in fairness the post you replied to. Points that contribute in no way whatsoever to the topic of next-gen consoles. Be it their tech, their strategies or their features... instead a post dedicated to the whole us vs them nonsense.

They are gone because they were more interested in one console is more powerful than the other than they were in the actual tech that went into it. When their preferred console was on tp thy felt the need to post. We can say this about posters on both sides of the fence. And I don't see why next-gen threads should be separated. If people can't talk constructively, well we have mods for that.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
4,689
That's one of the biggest questions I have for next gen. Currently I have like 8tb of space and around 600 games installed. Having to pay for SSD storage for all my games next gen will be a big ole biatch.
that wont happen, there will probably be around 1TB of SSD internally, and you could add the additional storage externally, but for every game that is not on the SSD you will need to wait for the system to copy the game to the SSD and replaced it with the last game you didnt play on the SSD.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,153
Barcelona Spain
that wont happen, there will probably be around 1TB of SSD internally, and you could add the additional storage externally, but for every game that is not on the SSD you will need to wait for the system to copy the game to the SSD and replaced it with the last game you didnt play on the SSD.
Another possible consequence to use a tinier SSD against a bigger SSD is maybe with a big one you can use QLC not sure it will be the case and TLC NAND will maybe be used for SSD + HDD...

EDIT: No difference of write cycle between the two is not so big...
 

DrKeo

Member
Mar 3, 2019
590
Israel
Are you alluding to possibility that each CU will be designed to handle RT and non-RT functions? If so it will be interesting to see what can be rendered with a budget of 16.67ms (60fps) and 33.33ms (30fps) if that function acts just like any of core render passes.
I meant something similar to NVIDIA's solution in the RTX series, a small part of the CU is designed to handle RT and most of the CU is the usual rasterization machine that we are used to seeing. Every CU has some part which is dedicated to RT, just like NVIDIA's SM:

Smaller custom soldered SSD (128-256 GBs) acting as a user transparent cache and a scratch pad memory plus a replaceable 2-4 TB HDD would be my current bet. Games would copy the data needed for streaming to SSD at first launch and reuse this copy on consequtive launches. This data would be gradually overwritten by next games you'll launch. Most people don't play more than a couple of games at the same time and it would be a waste to use SSD just for data storage.
I do think Microsoft is using this solution. Sony? Less likely.
An HDD is an incompressible cost of 35 dollars, after you need to add a 256 GB NAND Flash, a second CPU for NAND Flash management, a hardware decompressor, a custom controller. This is too much... I don't expect more than a 1TB SSD...

Data don't need to be unpacked at first launch of the game after the game install or you speak of the game install?
HDD might be 35$, but if you have a 256GB SSD instead of a 1TB one? It will probably compensate for that 35$ difference. A 2.5" 2TB HDD is ~70$ for the consumer today, I'm guessing that Sony and Microsoft can buy it for a lot less than that.
 

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,886
Germany
I think it is my friend, at least at this point.

It's important insofar as, knowing this, MS will try to revert it, and Matt thinks they'll succeed in doing so.

Independently of the outcome, all of this information can help us surmise things like price, which for me is the key puzzle part missing.

So no, it's not important which one ends up on top, but yes, this info is relevant to the discussion in a big way, because I was a firm believer of $399 and now I'm on the $499 due to it
Nothing is factual other than the things we got from Sony and MS. All stuff from Andrew Reiner or Matt is still unconfirmed and due to it not a fact.

Talking about launch prices I agree that $499 has a higher possibility than $399.
 

Gamer17

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,425
Nothing is factual other than the things we got from Sony and MS. All stuff from Andrew Reiner or Matt is still unconfirmed and due to it not a fact.

Talking about launch prices I agree that $499 has a higher possibility than $399.
Becareful vx1 doesn't see 499 lol

just like he was insisting November 2019 for release date which turned out to be wrong , his 399 will be proven wrong as well soon enough ;)
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,153
Barcelona Spain
I meant something similar to NVIDIA's solution in the RTX series, a small part of the CU is designed to handle RT and most of the CU is the usual rasterization machine that we are used to seeing. Every CU has some part which is dedicated to RT, just like NVIDIA's SM:


I do think Microsoft is using this solution. Sony? Less likely.

HDD might be 35$, but if you have a 256GB SSD instead of a 1TB one? It will probably compensate for that 35$ difference. A 2.5" 2TB HDD is ~70$ for the consumer today, I'm guessing that Sony and Microsoft can buy it for a lot less than that.
The price of a HDD is 35 $ incompressible. The only difference is storage size growing during the time. One day it can be 3 or 4 TB for the same price.

All mechanical and eltecro mechanical part + optical drive and HDDD of PS4 were 100 dollars of PS4 cost at launch and because of mechanical part there is an incompressible price as much as the SOC... I am sure using a custom SSD 256 GB like in patent + a 2TB HDD against a 1TB SSD is probably a little bit more expensive at launch and the cost difference grows in time...

 
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Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,381
Nothing is factual other than the things we got from Sony and MS. All stuff from Andrew Reiner or Matt is still unconfirmed and due to it not a fact.

Talking about launch prices I agree that $499 has a higher possibility than $399.
I think anything Matt or Zhugex say for example is as factual as it can be without being official, that's why I said "Is safe to say". I didn't say "It's a confirmed fact"

It's safe to say PS5 will have hardware RT?

I think it's safe to say, wouldn't you agree?

Edit: Btw what is this arguing with semantics when noone here (Kyofu, me and you) is a native english speaker? I said "Is safe to say" when I could've said "It's probably the case" or whatever other idiom. I think both of you missed the point but whatever..

Edit2: Regarding the price if we believe those 2 things are "probably" true then $499 is more likely. That's the link
 
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AegonSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,626
My guess is that PS5 silicon is near final design, and MS is far from being final, so they can still tweak it somehow or improve the cooling solution, make a bigger box, in order to significantly overclock the APU (like +10%), just enough to beat PS5.
I think the main reason why Phil didnt reveal the tflops number is because he knows he can always increase the clocks to gain massive gains in performance or at least in tflops numbers. i dont know if they can go from 1.55 ghz to 1.8 ghz without making major changes to the SOC, but we will see. i think they will be able to get 1.7 ghz and 12 tflops.

11.1 vs 12.9 tflops looks much worse than 12.0 vs 12.9 tflops.

at the end of the day it wont matter when it comes to actual performance difference but it will matter when it comes to marketing, it will matter when it comes to losing every digital foundry comparison and definitely winning the console warring online. i remember last gen how pretty much everyone knew that the ps4 was more powerful even though not many gamers even knew what the hell a tflop was.
 

Snakeeee

Member
Jan 20, 2019
1,307
This seems pretty childish to admit honestly. Then again I find the whole concept of ignore lists (over petty differences of opinion) mind boggling and a little pointless when others quote someone on the "list".
Agreeee

Why do peopel mute others on a forum is beyond me, on a game i understand because of all the kids
 

Gamer17

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,425
This seems pretty childish to admit honestly. Then again I find the whole concept of ignore lists (over petty differences of opinion) mind boggling and a little pointless when others quote someone on the "list".
We have different opinion which leads to nonsense discussion .I m 100% sure he has also put me on ignore list anyways .he doesn't see what I post and I don't see what he posts and we don't need to argue for pages lol

As for price Sony has used every PR it could to turn our attention to higher price point .if we want to disregard that and keep saying 399 doesn't make much sense to me .
 

Gamer17

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,425
Agreeee

Why do peopel mute others on a forum is beyond me, on a game i understand because of all the kids
To be fair once mod banned me when I was talking to him about 2019 not happening and mod said stop arguing (albeit ban was for 1 day ) but from that day I decided to put him on ignore list so I don't get into discussion with him .
 

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,886
Germany
I think anything Matt or Zhugex say for example is as factual as it can be without being official, that's why I said "Is safe to say". I didn't say "It's a confirmed fact"

It's safe to say PS5 will have hardware RT?

I think it's safe to say, wouldn't you agree?

Edit: Btw what is this arguing with semantics when noone here (Kyofu, me and you) is a native english speaker? I said "Is safe to say" when I could've said "It's probably the case" or whatever other idiom. I think both of you missed the point but whatever..

Edit2: Regarding the price if we believe those 2 things are "probably" true then $499 is more likely. That's the link
I think I look indeed differently on information from certain sources than you ;)
 

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,886
Germany
To be fair once mod banned me when I was talking to him about 2019 not happening and mod said stop arguing (albeit ban was for 1 day ) but from that day I decided to put him on ignore list so I don't get into discussion with him .
You miss a lot of news by ignoring VX1
He is the retweet machine of this thread of all KOMACHI and APSIAK tweets and other fancy sources.
 

Gamer17

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,425
This is clearly a discussion not belonging here and would be a better fit for a DM discussion.
You also miss a lot of news by ignoring VX1
He is the retweet machine of this thread of all KOMACHI and APSIAK tweets and other fancy sources.
Yea I understand many times he is a good source but when mods ban over discussing differing opinions in civil manner , I have no choice but to avoid the whole thing . Anyways once the price is revealed I LL remove him from ignore list haha he has had me on if ignore list for longest time cause he didnt appreciate me telling him release is 2020.

Anyways back on topic of next gen :)
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,381
I think I look indeed differently on information from certain sources than you ;)
Your lack of faith is disturbing!

PS: Now seriously I think it's a prejudice from your part, so shouldn't be projected unto others? I shouldn't be corrected for assuming what people with a spotless track record say is probably the case, specially in a speculative argument. But whatever, I haven't posted/read in days due to the lack of news and I guess i stomped into an ongoing war of mistrust that I was unaware of
 

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,886
Germany
Your lack of faith is disturbing!

PS: Now seriously I think it's a prejudice from your part, so shouldn't be projected unto others? I shouldn't be corrected for assuming what people with a spotless track record say is probably the case, specially in a speculative argument. But whatever, I haven't posted/read in days due to the lack of news and I guess i stomped into an ongoing war of mistrust that I was unaware of
Has nothing to do with mistrust. Has to do what I see as a fact. I also made no comment about if I think the claims from the sources we talked about could be true or not. But they are definitely not facts at this moment in time even they may materialize as promised in the future!
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,381
Has nothing to do with mistrust. Has to do what I see as a fact. I also made no comment about if I think the claims from the sources we talked about could be true or not. But they are definitely not facts at this moment in time even they may materialize as promised in the future!
Yes but were did I say there were facts my friend?
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,846
I think it is my friend, at least at this point.

It's important insofar as, knowing this, MS will try to revert it, and Matt thinks they'll succeed in doing so.

Independently of the outcome, all of this information can help us surmise things like price, which for me is the key puzzle part missing.

So no, it's not important which one ends up on top, but yes, this info is relevant to the discussion in a big way, because I was a firm believer of $399 and now I'm on the $499 due to it
Matt over the years normally give info he certain about or don't mince words .
Which is why i value his info like when he said both will have hardware RT .
When it comes to which one stronger he gave his guess , which very different than what he normally does .
So if he wrong or right i won't hold that agaist his track record and that is how i look at that compare to his other info.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,381
Matt over the years normally give info he certain about or don't mince words .
Which is why i value his info like when he said both will have hardware RT .
When it comes to which one stronger he gave his guess , which very different than what he normally does .
So if he wrong or right i won't hold that agaist his track record and that is how i look at that compare to his other info.
Of course...all I said is that it was safe to assume that:

- At this point in time PS5 has an slight advantage
- Both MS and Sony will try to improve their SKU's
- Both SKU's are really close to each other.

Aren't those thinks probably right?

Jesus loo
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,399
Reiner was stating a fact, conveying what the state of the affairs is right now, Matt was making a prediction about the future.
Matt even said he said just guessing. He never refuted Reiner's claims, so as of today, no insiders have claimed that the next Xbox would be more powerful than the next PlayStation, but two journalists have heard from sources that the next PlayStation's devkits were stronger than the next Xbox's.

Those are the facts.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,381
Right here in your first comment on the topic of the sub discussion ... :p
No, he was stating a fact, because for him it's a fact that developers have told him that the PS5 is more powerful. That's the fact he is stating, while Matt was making a prediction. I was expliciting the difference s between those 2 statements.

That doesn't make it a fact for the rest of us, but for me it's safe to assume that is the case
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,381
Matt even said he said just guessing. He never refuted Reiner's claims, so as of today, no insiders have claimed that the next Xbox would be more powerful than the next PlayStation, but two journalists have heard from sources that the next PlayStation's devkits were stronger than the next Xbox's.

Those are the facts.
I didn't say it was a fact that the Xbox will be more powerful, only that Matt believes so.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,381
I think is safe to say PS5 has an slight edge at this point in time, that both Sony and MS will work on improving their respective SKU's, and that the end result will be 2 machines that are very close in terms of specs, and they have to be the same price really.
.
Are those statements really that outrageous??
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,381
Not saying you did, just adding to your post. :)

Matt didn't even say Xbox would be more powerful, it was a guess that Microsoft would not want to relinquish the power battle.
Yes but for me the takeaway of his words is that they're really close, hence must be the same price, hence it has to be $499

I even said doesn't matter which one ends on top...

PS: It was a post about price people...
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,399
Yes but for me the takeaway of his words is that they're really close, hence must be the same price, hence it has to be $499

I even said doesn't matter which one ends on top...

PS: It was a post about price people...
They're definitely going to be close, they share practically the exact same architecture.

Either way, it doesn't really matter all that much in the end. I'd argue that most people already know which platform they will buy next regardless of the power difference. Even price is not a huge factor as I don't see the price difference being more than $50 between the two competitors.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
2,502
I have a feeling these consoles will be so close neither Sony or Microsoft will want to reveal details/price first leading to a complete lack of info until very close to launch.....

Whoever ends up blinking first will risk the other undercutting them unless super confident.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,381
They're definitely going to be close, they share practically the exact same architecture.

Either way, it doesn't really matter all that much in the end. I'd argue that most people already know which platform they will buy next regardless of the power difference. Even price is not a huge factor as I don't see the price difference being more than $50 between the two competitors.
Yes but wouldn't you like to know if it's $399 or $499?

Not in regards as to which one will be more successful, as you seem to imply, but because if it's more expensive they can put more goodies in?

That's why I wanna know the price.
 
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