Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

What do you think could be the memory setup of your preferred console, or one of the new consoles?


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le-seb

Member
Oct 31, 2017
130
It's better because it can be unified and transparent for all storage sources, external or internal (or even network maybe?)

If there will be one big SSD and the system will require for a game to remain on this SSD to be ran then you will have to copy a game from external HDD to SSD. The details of how exactly this will be handled can be wildly different of course. But assuming that the system itself doesn't copy anything anywhere when running a game off its SSD would mean that the user will have to perform some actions to make a game stored on external HDD playable off the system's SSD. So it likely won't be completely transparent.
I can't really see any difference between having some internal SSD+HDD solution compared to some internal SSD + external HDD one.

Both would require some kind of tiering technology, that would move game data from the slower disk to the faster one, and unused blocks from the faster disk to the slower one.

Such technology has heavily been used in NAS/SAN storage arrays for years, so Sony and MS could perfectly implement it in their consoles.

And just like you can start playing a game although it's not fully downloaded on PS4, you don't need the whole game to be moved to the SSD at once. Rest of the tiering operation can happen in the background.
 

Retsudo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
241
If they both release with a 2080 equivalent GPU (my prediction) than maybe with optimization we could get close.
While i dont think we will get close to that on a 500 dlrs machine ( or a value near that), i hope you end up being right just because it would be awesome for us as consumers.

But honestly, thats to high of a performance to achieve. Maybe with the redesigns in 2023.
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
3,980
I think the best we could hope for is somewhere in between GTX 1080 and 1080Ti performance.

With raw specs like the 1080 ( 8.8 TF ) and equivalent performance of 1080Ti thanks to RDNA.

I don’t want to compare with RTX/Turing GPUs because I don’t believe AMD will have comparable raytracing HW, even for Scarlett.
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,226
St Kitts
Albert Penello explained this in one of the previous threads. A lot of what you say here isn't how it works.
I am not contradicting what he said.

I am basically saying there are "multiple step 1s". Based on multiple potential configurations early on in the design process. Kinda like how MShad an anaconda and Lockhart and then decided to shelve one and focus on the other.

I am saying that rather than Sony/MS saying in 2015 "ok, we are NOT going to make anything more than a $400 box" it was more like "we aren't going to retail for any higher than $499." And there are just some things that back in 205/16 they just would not have known to be able to make any hardened decision on. They wouldn't have known if 7nm would, by all means, be ready in 2019/2020. They Wouldnt know how aggressively SSD prices or RAM prices may drop or go up.

I think this is just common sense, to assume so many things you have no control over will ALL go exactly according to plan would be flat out stupid hence why there would no doubt be multiple design directions.
 

Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
352
Massachusetts, USA
I think the best we could hope for is somewhere in between GTX 1080 and 1080Ti performance.

With raw specs like the 1080 ( 8.8 TF ) and equivalent performance of 1080Ti thanks to RDNA.

I don’t want to compare with RTX/Turing GPUs because I don’t believe AMD will have comparable raytracing HW, even for Scarlett.
When people mention RT capabilities I always think of this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/bjne11/for_the_people_who_dont_believe_the_next/

How do we know Sony or MS couldn’t implement a chip like this?
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,226
St Kitts
Yes. See below.


So thats a 40 CU 1.93 ghz 9.88 tflops GPU scoring a 26.3k score.

My RTX 2080 and i7-8700 3.2 ghz gave me a 26.5k score. (core clock was 1.5 ghz but i saw it stay in the 1.9 ghz range pretty much the entire going up to 2.05 ghz at times.

I will be ok with a 10 tflops RDNA gpu in this case.
I think we have our next-gen console there. Especially if Gonzalo is the PS5.

A downclocked 8C/16t CPU would probably perform just a tad better or on par with a 6C/12T [email protected] And the Gonzalo info claimed a combined score of over 20k.
 

Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
352
Massachusetts, USA
I think we have our next-gen console there. Especially if Gonzalo is the PS5.

A downclocked 8C/16t CPU would probably perform just a tad better or on par with a 6C/12T [email protected] And the Gonzalo info claimed a combined score of over 20k.
Imagine this level of destruction in an open world!

 
Oct 29, 2017
310
The last few pages have been rough. 16 TF, 2080 Ti performance, 7nm EUV, 220w and up power draw. Might be worth having one of those Bingo cards at this point because speculation in here has officially gone off the rails.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
4,689
ryzen 5 3600 6c 3600mhz(no boost) with 5700xt
I remember that when i saw CPU scores for stock 3600 and boosted 3700X i used that to find the score of a 3.2Ghz 3700X (i assumed clock scales linearly with score and core count maybe less so, and that pointed to 3.2ghz 3700X basically being a match in score to 3.6ghz 3600 that is used here.
Those who hoping for 10TF may like this result :)
Ill stick with my 9.2TF prediction though
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,573
This video could almost be used as a next gen tech showcase:


Although it is exclusively UE4.
It's an animated film....
It's a movie and we don't come compare CGIs and movies to games. If anything you want to get an idea is the others tech demos except that movie.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,573
Yes. See below.


So thats a 40 CU 1.93 ghz 9.88 tflops GPU scoring a 26.3k score.

My RTX 2080 and i7-8700 3.2 ghz gave me a 26.5k score. (core clock was 1.5 ghz but i saw it stay in the 1.9 ghz range pretty much the entire going up to 2.05 ghz at times.

I will be ok with a 10 tflops RDNA gpu in this case.
Wow, that would be amazing! Your prediction for 12.9 TFLOPS would probably be like a 2080 TI.
Anyway if anything for next-gen consoles especially PS5 (if it will end up being the most powerful), then it will be at least as powerful as the 5700XT if not better because of this:


Ok, don't take this as an authentic source for an approximation of next-gen but still a RX 5700 is not performing well at all in current-gen games which will be miles behind next-gen. The GPU is performing horrendously in Metro Exodus in 4K max settings (without RT ofc) just in 15 FPS, Shadow Of War and even FORTNITE!!!.
I know optimisations for consoles and low level API but still the GPU that will be on next-gen consoles (at least the PS5) will be better than the RX 5700 XT if not much better considering the leaks, the RT addition, the tests and the promises.
 

Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
352
Massachusetts, USA
Anyway if anything for next-gen consoles especially PS5 (if it will end up being the most powerful), then it will be at least as powerful as the 5700XT if not better because of this:


Ok, don't take this as an authentic source for an approximation of next-gen but still a RX 5700 is not performing well at all in current-gen games which will be miles behind next-gen. The GPU is performing horrendously in Metro Exodus in 4K max settings (without RT ofc) just in 15 FPS, Shadow Of War and even FORTNITE!!!.
I know optimisations for consoles and low level API but still the GPU that will be on next-gen consoles (at least the PS5) will be better than the RX 5700 XT if not much better considering the leaks, the RT addition, the tests and the promises.
Ya, 2080 performance (even higher with optimization) is my guess.
 

Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
352
Massachusetts, USA
Yes. Don't take that as an idea for next-gen, there are many assets so high especially dynamic GI that will be impossible to do in realtime dynamic GI will be doable next-gen but to a certain extent). We may still be surprised by some tech wizards next-gen though.
The only two that would be impossible are the Troll demo and the Star Wars demo. This is because they rely heavily on ray tracing. I’m still convinced that even without ray tracing we’ll get what we consider to be a “generational leap”.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
4,689
Anyway if anything for next-gen consoles especially PS5 (if it will end up being the most powerful), then it will be at least as powerful as the 5700XT if not better because of this:


Ok, don't take this as an authentic source for an approximation of next-gen but still a RX 5700 is not performing well at all in current-gen games which will be miles behind next-gen. The GPU is performing horrendously in Metro Exodus in 4K max settings (without RT ofc) just in 15 FPS, Shadow Of War and even FORTNITE!!!.
I know optimisations for consoles and low level API but still the GPU that will be on next-gen consoles (at least the PS5) will be better than the RX 5700 XT if not much better considering the leaks, the RT addition, the tests and the promises.
i wish more people would do this. i found that video very interesting (and i think it actually performed decently enough, better than i expected for a 7.5TF GPU, on par with a vega 64).
i want to see someone with a 3.2Ghz 3700X and RX 5700XT trying to find the correct GPU clock speed to get >20k firestrike score.
 

Melchiah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,665
Helsinki, Finland
The PS4 and XB1 GPU’s were GCN based. The next gen consoles are part of a new architecture known as RDNA. So from what I understand the RDNA arch has a 1.25-1.4x performance multiplier over GCN. An example would be a 10 RDNA TFLOP card having equal performance to a 12.5-14 TFLOP GCN card. Not that it matters much because I’ve recently learnt that TFLOPS is a pretty useless way of comparing performance.
Yes, that's what I meant. I thought you meant something else. It looks like were getting 12-14 GCN teraflop equivalent GPU, not RDNA. That's what me and some others hoped for back in the day. Whether the TF figure actually matters or not. ;)

Anyways, with that, a huge CPU improvement, and SSD, I can't even begin to imagine how the games will look next gen. Particularly first party titles, which will push the hardware more. I can't wait to see what a studio like Guerrilla will bring to the table. I'm expecting to be at least as amazed as I was when I saw Killzone: Shadow Fall.
 

sncvsrtoip

Member
Apr 18, 2019
647
Anyway if anything for next-gen consoles especially PS5 (if it will end up being the most powerful), then it will be at least as powerful as the 5700XT if not better because of this:


Ok, don't take this as an authentic source for an approximation of next-gen but still a RX 5700 is not performing well at all in current-gen games which will be miles behind next-gen. The GPU is performing horrendously in Metro Exodus in 4K max settings (without RT ofc) just in 15 FPS, Shadow Of War and even FORTNITE!!!.
I know optimisations for consoles and low level API but still the GPU that will be on next-gen consoles (at least the PS5) will be better than the RX 5700 XT if not much better considering the leaks, the RT addition, the tests and the promises.
Some strange results there, maybe some driver problems with heavy underclocked cpu, the low level console api call will not have it;)
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
4,689
i finally checked out the AMD image sharpening tech, this looks really impressive for virtually no performance cost, i can see developers using this a lot next gen.
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
503
i finally checked out the AMD image sharpening tech, this looks really impressive for virtually no performance cost, i can see developers using this a lot next gen.
Is it different than checker boarding?

And can it be combined with checker boarding/temporal reconstruction for an even close approximation of native 4K?
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
3,445
i finally checked out the AMD image sharpening tech, this looks really impressive for virtually no performance cost, i can see developers using this a lot next gen.
Yes, and without wasting transistors for tensor cores with better end result ;)
Yeah, it's better than DLSS (although the comparison is a little more complex than it looks). I really want to know how the Sharpening would look on consoles combined with resolution reconstruction. It would also be fantastic for enhancing older games even further - imagine if we got 4K 60fps patches for PS4 games, then got this tech on top of it.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,688
I was just reading the Wired Cerny article again. It's crazy how the entire thing reads like the Project Scarlet announcement video.


PS5 just came out good in it.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
4,689
Is it different than checker boarding?

And can it be combined with checker boarding/temporal reconstruction for an even close approximation of native 4K?
Its not checkerboarding at all, its just after upscaling to 4k performs sharpening based off contrast and it looks surprisingly close to native 4k.
I have no idea whether it could be combined with checkerboard, but technically i dont see why not, its just a filter in the end, but isn't checkerboard already sharpening the image anyway?
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
3,445
Its not checkerboarding at all, its just after upscaling to 4k performs sharpening based off contrast and it looks surprisingly close to native 4k.
It also works on native 4K!

I have no idea whether it could be combined with checkerboard, but technically i dont see why not, its just a filter in the end, but isn't checkerboard already sharpening the image anyway?
I see no reason why they couldn't be combined, but I was concerned the two techniques might not play well together.

I'd like to see it used on R6: Siege, though I'm not sure if the checkerboard on that game is particularly good.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
4,689
It also works on native 4K!



I see no reason why they couldn't be combined, but I was concerned the two techniques might not play well together.

I'd like to see it used on R6: Siege, though I'm not sure if the checkerboard on that game is particularly good.
I can see RIS working very well with insomniac's temporal injection
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,688
Tangential: LG is doubling their large panel OLED capacity. Gimme that sub $2K 65” panel MSRP.


FUCK LG. the real story is OLED Capacity will be times 10 by 2024.

By next year we will have the first Printed OLED panels. And TCL should be among the first alongside Japan Display.

Cheaper, more competition, more reliable, and faster. LG display won't have a stranglehold on the market leading to cheaper prices for everyone.


That means the 88 inch oled for sub 5k in a wallpaper like format


 

orava

Member
Jun 10, 2019
54
When people mention RT capabilities I always think of this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/bjne11/for_the_people_who_dont_believe_the_next/

How do we know Sony or MS couldn’t implement a chip like this?
Nvidia has researched this over decade now and poured billions into it and they just recently got a consumer level product finished. AMD is almost at their level tech-wise but still haven't got a solution out and they aren't going to catch up anytime soon. Even giant like intel would have problems developing one. Expecting sony, ms or someone else like the company in the article to produce magic chip like this is just wishful thinking. It would be just too expensive. They will most likely just stick with what AMD comes up with.
 
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Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
1,965
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
Haha exactly, Dictator DF check firestirke 1080p general score with ryzen 7 3700x downclocked to 3.2ghz with 5700 and 5700xt
yes please do it Dark1x

Also downclock the 5700 XT 10-15% to see how much power that would save.
John does not have the hardware :D Neither do I (yet).
But we will probably do something like this - the reason we did Journey is because I think the game deserves it and because I needed something smaller (the game is just 2 hours long) to do before I hit a small vacation since I am hanging around with my mother :D
 
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