Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

What do you think could be the memory setup of your preferred console, or one of the new consoles?


  • Total voters
    1,379
Status
Not open for further replies.
Jan 21, 2019
647
Well photo realism is a very loose word. Do you mean if you were to take a screenshot and show it to somebody they wouldn’t be able to tell if it was real or not? Or do you photorealistic in motion, where physics and AI react accordingly like a movie?
Obviously in motion. That's the hard part. We might nail the look once path tracing is matured, but it has to move realistically and most importantly react to the player realistically. Otherwise the illusion brakes the second something movies and we jump right into the uncanny valley.
 

BoxingIsCool

Member
May 15, 2019
1,178
I would go further and say that Cerny just came out to take out some elephants from the room before they got bigger - like others in PS recent story like cross play for example - and without saying much he just assured that : PS5 is a gen leap, it has BC and if you are willing to invest on VR/already did no problem because it will support it.
It was a clever move because all those points were being speculated as negative ones based on Sony recent actions ( debatable but whatever ) and/or how their competitors were handling this.
No way it was as an announcement it felt more like a : relax and enjoy the rest of this gen we are looking for your concerns , soon we’ll share more.
This is the right read
 

Metalane

Banned
Jun 30, 2019
614
Massachusetts, USA
Obviously in motion. That's the hard part. We might nail the look once path tracing is matured, but it has to move realistically and most importantly react to the player realistically. Otherwise the illusion brakes the second something movies and we jump right into the uncanny valley.
I agree. Now that we’re getting a big boost in CPU and GPU (something you can’t say about this gen) simulations will get significantly more realistic.
 

kc44135

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,852
Ohio
I think I already know the answer, but... I read PS5 can support 120hz refresh rate. Could there actually be games on either next-gen Console that run at that framerate? Does seem kinda unrealistic considering current Consoles struggle with 4K 30 FPS. Guessing I should probably keep my expectations in check. :p
 

Metalane

Banned
Jun 30, 2019
614
Massachusetts, USA
I think I already know the answer, but... I read PS5 can support 120hz refresh rate. Could there actually be games on either next-gen Console that run at that framerate? Does seem kinda unrealistic considering current Consoles struggle with 4K 30 FPS. Guessing I should probably keep my expectations in check. :p
I’m guessing smaller games (like sports, racing, or maybe even shooters like COD) will run at cb4K or 1080p 120fps. It’s the mid-gen consoles that kind of suffer with 4K/30.

Edit: Am I the only one who feels like higher frame rates make the IQ better? Playing a game at 60fps just looks clearer than a game at 20fps.
 

Metalane

Banned
Jun 30, 2019
614
Massachusetts, USA
What launch games are we suspecting Sony will release with?

My bets are:

- TLOU Part 2 Remastered
- Death Stranding Remastered
- GOT Remastered
- RDR 2 Remastered?
- *Unannounced Title*
- *Unannounced Title*
- etc
 

ItsTonyB

Member
Oct 27, 2017
942
England
I think I already know the answer, but... I read PS5 can support 120hz refresh rate. Could there actually be games on either next-gen Console that run at that framerate? Does seem kinda unrealistic considering current Consoles struggle with 4K 30 FPS. Guessing I should probably keep my expectations in check. :p
VR games. A lot currently run 60-120 on the current ps4
 

ItsTonyB

Member
Oct 27, 2017
942
England
What launch games are we suspecting Sony will release with?

My bets are:

- TLOU Part 2 Remastered
- Death Stranding Remastered
- GOT Remastered
- RDR 2 Remastered?
- *Unannounced Title*
- *Unannounced Title*
- etc
I think the launch line up will be

Next battlefield
Next cod
Knack 3
Next killzone
Need for speed.
Just dance

Obviously some of those are third party but I reckon that's it.

Games already released so just get updates like pro.
 

Xeontech

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,017
What launch games are we suspecting Sony will release with?

My bets are:

- TLOU Part 2 Remastered
- Death Stranding Remastered
- GOT Remastered
- RDR 2 Remastered?
- *Unannounced Title*
- *Unannounced Title*
- etc
New IP

Along with a few crossgen titles. And probably a tease of a couple things shortly after launch.
 

Trieu

Member
Feb 22, 2019
619
What launch games are we suspecting Sony will release with?

My bets are:

- TLOU Part 2 Remastered
- Death Stranding Remastered
- GOT Remastered
- RDR 2 Remastered?
- *Unannounced Title*
- *Unannounced Title*
- etc

I would be extremely disappointed if I had to buy those PS4 games as remastered again considering the PS5 supports PS4 BC and I see no reason why they would release remastered version of those games and not just offer a small patch with increased resolution/details/framerate(if possible).
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,100
I would be extremely disappointed if I had to buy those PS4 games as remastered again considering the PS5 supports PS4 BC and I see no reason why they would release remastered version of those games and not just offer a small patch with increased resolution/details/framerate(if possible).
They will most likely bring out a complete edition for PS5 .
Yes the game will be patch if we already own it but the PS5 version will most likely come with everything on the disc .
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,856
What launch games are we suspecting Sony will release with?

My bets are:

- TLOU Part 2 Remastered
- Death Stranding Remastered
- GOT Remastered
- RDR 2 Remastered?
- *Unannounced Title*
- *Unannounced Title*
- etc
Some new IP, new 3rd party games, and propped up BC PS4 games. TLoU II will get a lot of attention, for example.

I do wonder if they would remaster TLoU II, Death Stranding, and/or Ghost for PS5. I would think they'd only do it if it meant significant upgrades like TLoU II running at 60fps and Ray Tracing. Or maybe they could get stuff like that done with just a patch.

Edit - This'll probably be Sony's best console launch lineup ever.
 

Metalane

Banned
Jun 30, 2019
614
Massachusetts, USA
Some new IP, new 3rd party games, and propped up BC PS4 games. TLoU II will get a lot of attention, for example.

I do wonder if they would remaster TLoU II, Death Stranding, and/or Ghost for PS5. I would think they'd only do it if it meant significant upgrades like TLoU II running at 60fps and Ray Tracing. Or maybe they could get stuff like that done with just a patch.

Edit - This'll probably be Sony's best console launch lineup ever.
Never mind just launch titles. If Sony has a first party lineup like this gen then we could be looking at the best PlayStation ever!
 

BoxingIsCool

Member
May 15, 2019
1,178
Some new IP, new 3rd party games, and propped up BC PS4 games. TLoU II will get a lot of attention, for example.

I do wonder if they would remaster TLoU II, Death Stranding, and/or Ghost for PS5. I would think they'd only do it if it meant significant upgrades like TLoU II running at 60fps and Ray Tracing. Or maybe they could get stuff like that done with just a patch.

Edit - This'll probably be Sony's best console launch lineup ever.
I mean. All of their ps4 first party games would be part of their “launch lineup” by that logic
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
10,001
Not America
Ever since the 2700E was 45W @ 2.8GHz, I figured we'd be in this range. When AMD showed system power draw at CES, it pretty much locked it in.
Given SSD consumes less power and the wattage ceiling is artificially limited to 200W, between rest of the component, what is the estimated amount of power consumption (I/O, Storage, GDDR6 and Optical drive)?
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,497
Given SSD consumes less power and the wattage ceiling is artificially limited to 200W, between rest of the component, what is the estimated amount of power consumption (I/O, Storage, GDDR6 and Optical drive)?
I'm not sure why we would say anything is "artificially limited." GDDR6 is the only appreciable delta from previous gen consoles (yes, even SSD vs. HDD) because it's increase in efficiency of pJ/bit nowhere near offsets its increase in BW. The other power changes are very minor and won't/shouldn't impact SoC dissipation, budget, or heat management.

Flash even likes being warm to operate properly.
 

RoboPlato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,521
And now we see why the next gen consoles are 3.2Ghz - it is the sweet spot for power/performance.

Which rumours suggested 3.2? Because that aspect is probably spot on.
Gonzalo was the first thing that put it at 3.2 and the YouTuber that did a “building the PS5” test video found that it was about 30watts at 3.2Ghz which is a very console friendly figure.

I think I already know the answer, but... I read PS5 can support 120hz refresh rate. Could there actually be games on either next-gen Console that run at that framerate? Does seem kinda unrealistic considering current Consoles struggle with 4K 30 FPS. Guessing I should probably keep my expectations in check. :p
It’ll probably be support like the Xbox One currently supports it, as an output value but not natively rendered at that rate. DF said that Sekiro was smoother on Xbox One X because of it if you had a proper display since there’s more frames that evenly fit into 120Hz than 60Hz

We could potentially see some 2D games or eSports focused games add in 120fps modes as an option but that’s less likely.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
10,001
Not America
I'm not sure why we would say anything is "artificially limited." GDDR6 is the only appreciable delta from previous gen consoles (yes, even SSD vs. HDD) because it's increase in efficiency of pJ/bit nowhere near offsets its increase in BW. The other power changes are very minor and won't/shouldn't impact SoC dissipation, budget, or heat management.

Flash even likes being warm to operate properly.
Well I have been asking for the last few pages regarding whether console manufacturers can manufacture a custom piece of HW installed with a vapour chamber that can manage heat output if the peak wattage use of the system was greater than 200W, that figure being the one standard for the last and current gen. IIRC, OG 90 nm PS3 60GB reached a peak of 203W and at least one Xbox One X unit maxed out at 199W.

Given the posts about how the 5700XT could be perhaps undervolted to able to save on 25% on (max?) wattage consumption without affecting core clock rate a few pages back, it would consume around 172W. Assuming the 3700X is clocked to somewhere between 2.8 and 3.3 GHz consuming between 45 and 48W, respectively, it would mean that a simple addition nets power consumption between 217 and 220W. Of course, the figures are incorrect since the power consumption for the GPU encapsulates all portions of the card (including the 8GB GDDR6 RAM, which will become part of the consoles anyway). Furthermore, it is not yet known whether the reviewed batch of 5700 are part of 2nd generation of 7nm production from TSMC.
 

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
492
What launch games are we suspecting Sony will release with?

My bets are:

- TLOU Part 2 Remastered
- Death Stranding Remastered
- GOT Remastered
- RDR 2 Remastered?
- *Unannounced Title*
- *Unannounced Title*
- etc
Horizon 2 should be a launch window game. It’ll have been nearly 4 years since the last when the PS5 launches.
 

Noctis114

Member
Jan 25, 2019
819
I love it when a new console releases with a highly anticipated game, two well known examples being the Switch and BOTW and Project Scarlett with Halo Infinite, i'm hoping Sony follows suit with the PS5, I remember how originally Infamous Second Sun was meant to be a launch title but got delayed by 4 months to further polish the game.

A title like the Last of Us Part II releasing as a cross gen launch title for the PS5 in Q4 2020 would be big, rather than it's rumoured early 2020 launch, Ghost of Tsushima aswell, because i highly doubt that both of those titles will be both releasing in the first half of 2020, one of them will be releasing in the 2020 holiday season, as a PS5 launch title.
 

Rylen

Member
Feb 5, 2019
202
Forza Horizon 4, I can lock 60 FPS with power consumption averaging 105w, and peaking @120w when undervolted and downclocked.

With stock GPU Settings Peak Power is 214w, and average is around 190w

Stock Settings:




Downlocked and Undervolted




 

RoboPlato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,521

It's honestly not a great video, he just kind of gives up after testing a few games with poor performance and doesn't actually show what the load times look like, but the CPU info is pretty interesting.
 

ody

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,258

It's honestly not a great video, he just kind of gives up after testing a few games with poor performance and doesn't actually show what the load times look like, but the CPU info is pretty interesting.
Thanks!
Edit: Oh it's this guy...
 
Last edited:

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,075
Germany
Forza Horizon 4, I can lock 60 FPS with power consumption averaging 105w, and peaking @120w when undervolted and downclocked.

With stock GPU Settings Peak Power is 214w, and average is around 190w

Stock Settings:




Downlocked and Undervolted




You know you can make screenshots with winKey+ G with Windows 10 from games?
Also there is a built-in screenshot tool for windows 10 outside of games.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
10,001
Not America
Forza Horizon 4, I can lock 60 FPS with power consumption averaging 105w, and peaking @120w when undervolted and downclocked.

With stock GPU Settings Peak Power is 214w, and average is around 190w

Stock Settings:




Downlocked and Undervolted




Great data and looks like performance loss is a around less than 5 frames/s (at least in Forza). Thank you.

Could you inform us to what value it was downclocked to (looks like ~1700MHz) given the Navi cards now have base, game and boost clock?

Thank you.
 

BoxingIsCool

Member
May 15, 2019
1,178
I love it when a new console releases with a highly anticipated game, two well known examples being the Switch and BOTW and Project Scarlett with Halo Infinite, i'm hoping Sony follows suit with the PS5, I remember how originally Infamous Second Sun was meant to be a launch title but got delayed by 4 months to further polish the game.

A title like the Last of Us Part II releasing as a cross gen launch title for the PS5 in Q4 2020 would be big, rather than it's rumoured early 2020 launch, Ghost of Tsushima aswell, because i highly doubt that both of those titles will be both releasing in the first half of 2020, one of them will be releasing in the 2020 holiday season, as a PS5 launch title.
Super Mario 64 is another good example
 

Rylen

Member
Feb 5, 2019
202
Great data and looks like performance loss is a around less than 5 frames/s (at least in Forza). Thank you.

Could you inform us to what value it was downclocked to (looks like ~1700MHz) given the Navi cards now have base, game and boost clock?

Thank you.
During the benchmarks the clocks were at 1686 MHz 90% of the time.

Power Consumption below GTX 1660 levels.

Frame Rates around 35% better than 1660 Ti
 

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,125
I think the launch line up will be

Next battlefield
Next cod
Knack 3
Next killzone
Need for speed.
Just dance

Obviously some of those are third party but I reckon that's it.

Games already released so just get updates like pro.
Killzone? I think you would get escorted off the premises at Guerilla if you tried to pitch a Killzone game immediately after Horizon.
 

Joystick

Member
Oct 28, 2017
548
With next-gen, we are getting NVMe class speed. Forget the rumored 5GB/s+... even if it only translates to 2GB/s speeds, that is still over 40x faster than what the current norm (baseline) is. It's not just about loading times, it's that how the games are designed will change.
What will be interesting is the capacity and whether or not external drives will be supported. If a game is designed for a super fast SSD how will a game running off the external work? Do you have to swap it with a game on the internal SSD to play it? Or do you just get current gen load times and LOD pop-in?

Edit: never mind, saw the discussion around this already.
 
Last edited:

Metalane

Banned
Jun 30, 2019
614
Massachusetts, USA
I'm sorry, but this just means you don't understand the implications of the tech.

First, realize that the majority of AAA games out there are built "for" consoles. What that means is that consoles basically set the floor on how these games are made. Then maybe then you will understand that even though PCs has had access to SSDs forever, PC games have still been based on 2013 (HDD amongst other things) hardware.

With next-gen, we are getting NVMe class speed. Forget the rumored 5GB/s+... even if it only translates to 2GB/s speeds, that is still over 40x faster than what the current norm (baseline) is. It's not just about loading times, it's that how the games are designed will change.

What we have been seeing on PCs for the past 5+ years isn't in any way a representation of the next gen. Because those PCs are basically running games that were designed for grossly weaker hardware. Thats about to change and the SSD is just one of those major changes.
I thought the baseline now was 90-100 MB/s?


Edit: Except for a few cases like Spider-Man where they had to develop for the lowest common denominator HDD (20MB/s).
 
Last edited:
Jan 21, 2019
647
What will be interesting is the capacity and whether or not external drives will be supported. If a game is designed for a super fast SSD how will a game running off the external work? Do you have to swap it with a game on the internal SSD to play it? Or do you just get current gen load times and LOD pop-in?
There is no way they will allow you to play games off of an HDD. That would completely go against the idea that an insanely fast SSD is the baseline. Either they will manage game storage themselves, meaning one game gets kicked off the SSD to make room for a game from an HDD, or you need to swap them yourself. I can't see a game designed around 5gb/s data transfer to run on a 50mb/s HDD. Imagine having the beefiest PC in the world, but installing windows to a slow-ass bargain SD-card. The whole system would break apart.
 

Metalane

Banned
Jun 30, 2019
614
Massachusetts, USA
User Warned: Platform Warring
So 40 CUs at 16.5 ghz are at 104w. 124max.

56 CU confirmed. MS will go with 1.55ghz to hit 11 tflops.
sony 1.8 ghz 12.9 tflops.
MS will course correct and go up to 1.65 ghz to hit 12 tflops and close the gap a bit.
Sony’s first party games will once again be technologically superior to Microsoft’s.

Edit: This was just a prediction. I did not mean to sound so straightforward or bias.
 
Last edited:

Oluasc

Be more dog!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,200
...
Jan 21, 2019
647
Quick question about Navi desktop GPUs. Their GPU die is roughly half as big as Nvidia cards with equivalent performance. Wouldn't they crush Nvidia if they went for a larger die? Is power consumption the problem? How much of a die shrink can we expect from Nvidia going down to 7nm?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.