Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

What do you think could be the memory setup of your preferred console, or one of the new consoles?


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Snakeeee

Member
Jan 20, 2019
1,533
hmm thats an interesting thing T2 CEO brings forth . when is it too many subscription plans per month and how does it benefit individual in long run .

i guess we have to wait and see.

why do you think T2 hasn't done a subscription based model?due to what the CEO believes?they r huge and many would register to play RDR and GTA but i guess when your titles are still selling like hot cake at 40$ a pop u r not really interested to give people access to them for a low monthly fee
Prety much, the same reason Sony haven't joining in.

The only reason EA and Ubisoft have join in is because of the GAAS models, should expect Activision to jump soon as well.
 

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,089
Germany
Some interesting tests made by Hardware Unboxed to compare IPC and latency between Ryzen 3000 and Intel i9 8800K under the same conditions (Clock Speed).

Worth a watch/listen.

Most interesting to me was that AMD now has indeed a better IPC than Intel but struggles at Core and Memory Latency quite a bit.

That is (as mentioned in the video) by a high chance the reason why Intel is still better in gaming.

One root cause for the latency issue could be the chiplet based design with the bandwidth/latency limitations of the Infinity Fabric AMD is using.

If a monolithic design can solve those issues we probably can expect better results regarding latency and in result better performance for games comopared to a PC counterpart at similar clocks..

This is also why I never really supported a chiplet design for next gen consoles.


Edit:

The Latency charts, for those that are too lazy to watch the whole video ;)



 
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modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
5,330
Some interesting tests made by Hardware Unboxed to compare IPC and latency between Ryzen 3000 and Intel i9 8800K under the same conditions (Clock Speed).

Worth a watch/listen.

Most interesting to me was that AMD now has indeed a better IPC than Intel but struggles at Core and Memory Latency quite a bit.

That is (as mentioned in the video) by a high chance the reason why Intel is still better in gaming.

One root cause for the latency issue could be the chiplet based design AMD is using with the bandwidth/latency limitations of the Infinity Fabric.

If a monolithic design can solve those issues we probably can expect better results regarding latency and in result better performance for games comopared to a PC counterpart at similar clocks..

This is also why I never really supported a chiplet design for next gen consoles.

very interesting, i wonder by how much could a monolithic design lower the latency.
 

Alandring

Member
Feb 2, 2018
1,334
Switzerland
why do you think T2 hasn't done a subscription based model?due to what the CEO believes?they r huge and many would register to play RDR and GTA but i guess when your titles are still selling like hot cake at 40$ a pop u r not really interested to give people access to them for a low monthly fee
Because subscriptions are perfect for small games (indie or AA) and for non annual GAAS. Take-Two releases few games and single player is a big part of them. I don't think they have any game that would benefits of subscription.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,528
Barcelona Spain
Because subscriptions are perfect for small games (indie or AA) and for non annual GAAS. Take-Two releases few games and single player is a big part of them. I don't think they have any game that would benefits of subscription.
Exactly from an economical point of view and for indie it is ideal for well known studio. It is more difficult for new indie studio... Subscription will not replace everything, this is just one sales channel...
 

Gamer17

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,573
Because subscriptions are perfect for small games (indie or AA) and for non annual GAAS. Take-Two releases few games and single player is a big part of them. I don't think they have any game that would benefits of subscription.
You are right . Not every publisher offering is suited for subscription based model. Which publisher you see as potential for subscription model based on their offerings ?
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
1,368
St Kitts
I think it's absolutely on topic, because subscriptions (in streaming or not) will be a huge part of next-gen. But even if I mostly agree with you, it isn't true for all big publishers:


About Square Enix, I think there subscription would mostly be for legacy content. A subscription service where you can play all previous Final Fantasy games and all Tomb Raider games makes more sense than a subscription service where you can play day one Avengers.

At a cheap price (5$ max), a subscription service which allow you to play all Square Enix games released more than a year ago would do incredibly well.
I am 100% against this subscriptions nonsense. Especially with regards to gaming. I could understand why PS+ and XBL exists. And there is an indisputable added value in getting either of those services. But what I was afraid of when EAaccess became a thing is exactly what I see happening now. We keep talking about how great a "$5" subscription price would do. How "cheap" it is. But now of those subscriptions exist in a vacuum.

Just for me, I have PS+, Netflix and Amazon Prime (and would have Youtube TV/PS Vue if it were supported in my region). So what happens if EA, SE, Ubisoft, Activation, Take two...etc all roll out their own subscriptions services. So say we tack on another $5 for each individual service. then Disney wants to make their own sub service.... can't you see where this is going? Honestly, I would rather these companies adopt an ad-supported model, yes make me sit through 30-sec ads at certain intervals or whatnot. I would take that over paying for yet another subscription any day.
 

Gamer17

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,573
I am 100% against this subscriptions nonsense. Especially with regards to gaming. I could understand why PS+ and XBL exists. And there is an indisputable added value in getting either of those services. But what I was afraid of when EAaccess became a thing is exactly what I see happening now. We keep talking about how great a "$5" subscription price would do. How "cheap" it is. But now of those subscriptions exist in a vacuum.

Just for me, I have PS+, Netflix and Amazon Prime (and would have Youtube TV/PS Vue if it were supported in my region). So what happens if EA, SE, Ubisoft, Activation, Take two...etc all roll out their own subscriptions services. So say we tack on another $5 for each individual service. then Disney wants to make their own sub service.... can't you see where this is going? Honestly, I would rather these companies adopt an ad-supported model, yes make me sit through 30-sec ads at certain intervals or whatnot. I would take that over paying for yet another subscription any day.
True and u forgot spotify/Apple music/google music as well.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,701
Msk / SPb, Russia
One root cause for the latency issue could be the chiplet based design with the bandwidth/latency limitations of the Infinity Fabric AMD is using.

If a monolithic design can solve those issues we probably can expect better results regarding latency and in result better performance for games comopared to a PC counterpart at similar clocks..
I doubt that these issues will be solved in console APUs, for two reasons:

A. These stem from them using a 4 core CCX as a basis of Zen2 CPUs. It's highly unlikely that this will change in consoles as in that case we'd have seen 8 core CCX in Zen2 already.

B. Even if they have an 8 core CCX design I would expect them to go with Zen2 design for consoles as this will create an incentive to optimize all the gaming code to Zen2's CCX layout transferring these optimizations to PC platform eventually and robbing Intel of the last solid advantage they have over Zen designs.
 

Bits N Pieces

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,329
Scotland
I am 100% against this subscriptions nonsense. Especially with regards to gaming. I could understand why PS+ and XBL exists. And there is an indisputable added value in getting either of those services. But what I was afraid of when EAaccess became a thing is exactly what I see happening now. We keep talking about how great a "$5" subscription price would do. How "cheap" it is. But now of those subscriptions exist in a vacuum.

Just for me, I have PS+, Netflix and Amazon Prime (and would have Youtube TV/PS Vue if it were supported in my region). So what happens if EA, SE, Ubisoft, Activation, Take two...etc all roll out their own subscriptions services. So say we tack on another $5 for each individual service. then Disney wants to make their own sub service.... can't you see where this is going? Honestly, I would rather these companies adopt an ad-supported model, yes make me sit through 30-sec ads at certain intervals or whatnot. I would take that over paying for yet another subscription any day.
So a subscription service you can choose to subscribe to or not is a no no but an ad supported service that would break up gameplay with adverts is a winner?

Can I ask, have you ever subscribed to Game Pass. A lot of the negativity and criticisms I see labelled against it are from people who have actually never tried the service.

I'm subscribed for the next two and a half years right through the next gen launch and then some, the value is insane and it hasn't even got out of third gear yet.
 
Feb 10, 2018
12,712
I mean Microsoft did just acquire a bunch of studios so who knows what their games will be like. If Sony has a superior SSD (more likely) or a superior GPU (or both) then yes, Sony’s studios will probably crush Microsofts.
Sony could not crush ms first party technically with a 40% difference and better ram this gen, so if the gap is even smaller next gen there's an even smaller chance of them "crushing" ms first party graphically.
The reason why people say Sony 1st party look better this gen, is there more appealing artstyle, but technicaly games like gears 4( and soon 5) trade blows with god of war and uncharted 4.
Its so silly to use exclusives to compare visuals because this gen both platforms exclusives use completely different art styles, locations and themes.

I mean God of war has more beautiful vistas and particle effects but gears 4 has some better effects like rain dripping off glass/armour, reflections, and texture clarity+detail.
I hope we get some exclusives next gen which a very similar so graphic comparisons are more worthwhile.
 

Metalane

Banned
Jun 30, 2019
614
Massachusetts, USA
Sony could not crush ms first party technically with a 40% difference and better ram this gen, so if the gap is even smaller next gen there's an even smaller chance of them "crushing" ms first party graphically.
The reason why people say Sony 1st party look better this gen, is there more appealing artstyle, but technicaly games like gears 4( and soon 5) trade blows with god of war and uncharted 4.
Its so silly to use exclusives to compare visuals because this gen both platforms exclusives use completely different art styles, locations and themes.

I mean God of war has more beautiful vistas and particle effects but gears 4 has some better effects like rain dripping off glass/armour, reflections, and texture clarity+detail.
I hope we get some exclusives next gen which a very similar so graphic comparisons are more worthwhile.
I agree with what your saying art style wise. If Sony has an SSD than third party games (at least) will have faster loading times on the PS5.

Edit: Gears 5, Halo Infinite, and Forza Horizon 4 do all look gorgeous. MS just didn’t have enough first party support this gen to really show what their made of.
 

Metalane

Banned
Jun 30, 2019
614
Massachusetts, USA
This may be off topic but how do we think devs will utilize the new 3D audio chips? Will most devs utilize it? Only a handful?

I’m highly anticipating it even if the chips won’t be that cutting edge.
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
4,125
God damn. Imagine GTA VI with Rockstar taking advantage of 8c/16t Zen 2 and ultra fast SSD (not to mention the significant bump in GPU and RAM).
 

Metalane

Banned
Jun 30, 2019
614
Massachusetts, USA
God damn. Imagine GTA VI with Rockstar taking advantage of 8c/16t Zen 2 and ultra fast SSD (not to mention the significant bump in GPU and RAM).
We have to remember that GTA V was developed with the 7th gen consoles in mind. Since GTA VI is being developed with next gen in mind.... Oh boy:

- ~10-12x in CPU power (probably more since the 360’s CPU was weaker than the Cell)
- ~52x in GPU power
- ~30-45x in RAM (I don’t know how much was usable for devs in the PS3/360 era)
- SSD that’s hundreds of times faster

GTA VI better destroy our minds.
 

AegonSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,962
rockstar already has probably one of the best data streaming tech in the industry, them with such a fast SSD would be ridiculous.
there were rumors that you would be able to travel between vice city and liberty city in the next gta. and not just fast travel, actually travel using cars and planes. i wouldnt be surprised if the next gta is next gen only.
 

Metalane

Banned
Jun 30, 2019
614
Massachusetts, USA
there were rumors that you would be able to travel between vice city and liberty city in the next gta. and not just fast travel, actually travel using cars and planes. i wouldnt be surprised if the next gta is next gen only.
I wouldn’t mind if Rockstar went with an East coast theme. San Andreas sorta had a West coast theme.

Edit: Imagine being in Vice City and looking across the map and you see a highly detailed Liberty City. That would give me chills.
 
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KS93

Member
Oct 26, 2017
602
I am 100% against this subscriptions nonsense. Especially with regards to gaming. I could understand why PS+ and XBL exists. And there is an indisputable added value in getting either of those services. But what I was afraid of when EAaccess became a thing is exactly what I see happening now. We keep talking about how great a "$5" subscription price would do. How "cheap" it is. But now of those subscriptions exist in a vacuum.

Just for me, I have PS+, Netflix and Amazon Prime (and would have Youtube TV/PS Vue if it were supported in my region). So what happens if EA, SE, Ubisoft, Activation, Take two...etc all roll out their own subscriptions services. So say we tack on another $5 for each individual service. then Disney wants to make their own sub service.... can't you see where this is going? Honestly, I would rather these companies adopt an ad-supported model, yes make me sit through 30-sec ads at certain intervals or whatnot. I would take that over paying for yet another subscription any day.
You don't have to get each and every subscription though, and it's unlikely that anyone would want to play every single game by every single publisher.

The most likely use case isn't that everyone is subscribed to every single service at once. I imagine it is that for instance, someone plays most games that EA releases on Day 1 (poor bugger), so it makes sense for them to subscribe, and then they continue to buy games by other publishers off the shelf when they hit the price they're willing to pay for them.
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,298
I doubt that these issues will be solved in console APUs, for two reasons:
There's another reason to add - CCX latency is largely a non-issue in consoles to begin with, as software actually performs (and can afford to do so) a lot more explicit control over thread distribution and lifetimes, removing the occurrences of it most of the time.
2 CPU clusters is also exactly the same scenario current gen consoles dealt with - and the penalty for it was much worse on Jaguar CPUs.
 

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,089
Germany
I doubt that these issues will be solved in console APUs, for two reasons:

A. These stem from them using a 4 core CCX as a basis of Zen2 CPUs. It's highly unlikely that this will change in consoles as in that case we'd have seen 8 core CCX in Zen2 already.

B. Even if they have an 8 core CCX design I would expect them to go with Zen2 design for consoles as this will create an incentive to optimize all the gaming code to Zen2's CCX layout transferring these optimizations to PC platform eventually and robbing Intel of the last solid advantage they have over Zen designs.
A. is a good point. Have not thought about that.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,701
Msk / SPb, Russia
There's another reason to add - CCX latency is largely a non-issue in consoles to begin with, as software actually performs (and can afford to do so) a lot more explicit control over thread distribution and lifetimes, removing the occurrences of it most of the time.
2 CPU clusters is also exactly the same scenario current gen consoles dealt with - and the penalty for it was much worse on Jaguar CPUs.
Yeah, this as well - there's not a lot of reasons to even go with an 8 core CCX in a console APU.
 

Metalane

Banned
Jun 30, 2019
614
Massachusetts, USA
What about that ray traced audio I’ve heard about.

Something like Ray Traced Atmos Sound would be pretty awesome, but not sure if that’s possible or redundant
Cerny implied that the 3D audio would be rendered using ray tracing. Rays can be used for than just light. I saw someone on Reddit mention how rays could be used to simulate wind (for a game like Ace Combat for example).
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
854
So what do you all think the storage options are going to be with PS5?

Changeable SSD? Non-Changeable SSD with Multiple SKU SSD sizes? External drive support but for storage only (not playable off drive)?
 

DavidDesu

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,569
Glasgow, Scotland
So what do you all think the storage options are going to be with PS5?

Changeable SSD? Non-Changeable SSD with Multiple SKU SSD sizes? External drive support but for storage only (not playable off drive)?
Last option probably if the SSD is as revolutionary as stated. I wouldn't mind 1TB and being able to use external storage to keep a pool of games available, with an efficient automatic transfer occuring when you want to play one of those games. What sort of transfer times are possible with modern USBC drives these days?
 

AegonSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,962
Xbox devkit specs from polish forum:
CPU: Custom Zen 2 CPU / 12c/12t, 2.5GHz no turbo
RAM: 24GB GDDR6 448 GB/s (20GB available for games)
GPU: Custom Navi GPU - 44CU / Clock: 2000MHz
FPU: 4CU
SSD: 1TB
API: Next Generation LL API

Doesn't sound too reliably but still "leak" ;)
11.2 tflops. matches a couple of other leaks.
 
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