It could be random guesswork with a few real details for color, but there's enough that seems to be accurate on the Xbox side that I'd be more inclined to believe it's a large leak with a Microsoft source - and that the PS5 numbers are Microsoft's internal projections for what the PS5 was likely to be. Conflating estimates and hard facts is pretty common in leaks.
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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It could be random guesswork with a few real details for color, but there's enough that seems to be accurate on the Xbox side that I'd be more inclined to believe it's a large leak with a Microsoft source - and that the PS5 numbers are Microsoft's internal projections for what the PS5 was likely to be. Conflating estimates and hard facts is pretty common in leaks.
There was that pastebin in that said ps5 would be 7.5 tflops and cost 449. I think it is more likely that that 7.5 tflop number has been bumped up, but the price will stay the same.
Lockhart always sounded like a big loss to be honest, when the SSD rumours started to appear, it was hard to think $300 or under SKU would also pack an SSD. I think Microsoft believes they can compete better with Sony if they get a cheaper Console out the door, slowly make back the loss on subscriptions & royalties. It will pay for it self quickly, but be a huge loss at first, still not as bad as the 360/PS3 days though, the PS3 loss really hurt Sony as a whole & they didn't have a sub fee to help cover it.
MS will now want to focus on next gen especially given they have the floor so to speak with Sony not attending.
I imagine everything we will see on Sunday at the Xbox conference will be running on a PC with close to the next high end Xbox specs.
I'm sure Xbox games going forward will run similar to this -
XB1 - 720p / 30fps / PC 'Low' settings.
XB1X - 1080p / 30fps / PC 'Medium' settings.
XB2 - 1440p / 60fps / PC 'High' settings.
XB2 X - 2160p / 60fps / PC 'Ultra' settings.
Add XCloud and Game Pass to that and there's a ton of options for consumers to access Xbox games and services on.
I still think Xbox next big move will be to allow you to download and play Xbox games on your PC via the Xbox app without owning an Xbox.
Just make sure the games play exactly like they would on the Xbox and just sell their service to people with PCs.
And not meaning this XCloud stuff.
Just make sure the games play exactly like they would on the Xbox and just sell their service to people with PCs.
And not meaning this XCloud stuff.
At that leak price it would lose more than 360 did .
We talking about PS3 type lost if you say PS5 going to lose $100 by that leak.
I expect them to take a lost but the days of MS and Sony taking big hit on hardware are gone.
Im not sure why there is much debate about loss per console, it's gonna happen this gen for sure, Sony/MS got lucky last gen with RAM being affordable & the parts in the Consoles being outdated or mid to low range, you can't expect PS5/X2 to be the same with what they are getting.
Don't even entertain the idea of a next-gen 4K console having only 12GB of RAM. That's just ridiculous. Made even more ridiculous when you consider the fact that on GDDR6 12GB will peak at having only a 192-bit bus which will mean an even smaller bus with than the OG PS4 had back in 2013.
Worst case scenario is we see 16GB of GDDR6 on a 256-bit bus with a bandwidth ranging from 448GB/s - 576GB/s of which like 1GB - 2GB is reserved for the OS. The faster SSD means that you don't have to have too much of the OS sitting in RAM all the time. A more exotic implementation of this would be to increase the DDR4 ram pool typically associated with an NVMe SSD from like 1Gb to say 4GB and have the OS sits in half that RAM instead making all 16GB of RAM available for games and allowing the OS to borrow around 2GB-4GB of RAM from the "application RAM" when it needs it.
This is what having the kinda SSD performance the PS5 is rumored to have can allow. And Sony has also dabbled with offloading some OS stuff to a slower RAM in the PS4.
You do know Sony was losing over $200 for every PS3 sold right? And that was at a time when their online service was even free.
And I think you will be shocked to find out what sony/MS could do if they were targetting a $399 MSRP but making a $500 console. $500 will go a very very very very long way in a console.... I think this is something a lot of people don't seem to get. If you find yourself adding up console costs by what the equivalent cost of their components n the PC? then you are already wrong. And that kinda calculation is the only way you end up with things costing as much as you seem to think they may.
Take this as an example, a1TB SSD in 2020 (especially if Sony is doing what they are rumored to be doing) will cost them less or about the same as a 500GB HDD cost them in 2013. A 312mm2-325mm2 APU in 2020 is smaller than the APU size used in making the OG PS4 back in 2013. Smaller APU means more chips from each wafer, which means cheaper. But let add in new fab costs and say the chips are smaller but will cost about the same or a little more than it cost them to buy an APU in 2013........ I could go on.
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It could be argued that the One X had a very limited sales projection and it would be a waste to lose money on a mid gen upgrade that won't even hit 5M LTD with multiple price drops.
A new gen gives some leeway on selling at a loss. Putting in tech like an SSD might be considered to be worth selling at a loss.
Why would 12GB's of GDDR6 need a 192bit bus?
Also i think people might be more worried about RAM then they need to be, with improved compression from Navi & Zen 2 with fast SSD streaming on top of that, 12GB's in PS5 will out class XBX easily.
The debate is about the amount .
Even with X MS was not taking a lost and that was good hardware .
Also part in these system is going to be mid range again , the ram more expensive and the SSD .
But not so much that they willing to lose 100 plus on a console .
Even with subscriptions and royalties that is not small amount to make up .
For eg they only get $18 dollars ( 30% is the normal rate )of a game sale when it comes from DD from 3rd parties even less with disc .
X honestly wasn't that good, people mistake it for being good because the mining boom sky rocketed GPU prices & the Pro was really underpowered, the X uses a custom $199 GPU with the same low end laptop CPU & a slightly faster 7200rpm HDD. They probably did make a profit on it, dunno why they didn't try for $400, but likely they realised Sony already won this gen so might as well make a small profit per console sold before next gen.
Im not sure if $100 loss per Console is that big, maybe for Sony, but for Microsoft, they are too rich to care.
Because the entire industry is going to shift to 16Gb(2GB) GDDR6 chips. Which means 12GB of GDDRwil come in 6 x 2GB chips. 6 GDDR chips = 192bit bus (32bit/chip). If sony insists on using 8Gb (1GB) chips, it would literally end up costing them more for less RAM because they re the only ones using it and they will be stuck with that weir config for all of at least 30M-40M consoles. There is cheap and then there is stupid. That would be stupid on sony's part or anyone for that matter.
No they can't. If they didn't care about massive losses, they wouldn't need two SKUs.
But everyone who thinks that is probably wrong. If Anaconda is considerably more powerful than PS5, it'll be $100 more expensive too.
That makes sense then, still i wouldn't expect more than 16GB.
MS knows streaming is the next big thing and they want it to be viable as soon as possible given their strong position. They know sony has a long long way to go before they get close to them. Seems google does as well.
Massive losses on a division that seemingly has little impact on their bottom line? Maybe.
Also, when was the last time MS took massive losses on hardware? Weren't both xbone and X's BOM close to retail price?
I know how much they were losing on PS3 .
IMO i don't think MS or Sony will be taking a huge lost on there consoles .
If anything i would say $50 to $75 max , i was not adding up the parts by look at retail prices i know better than that lol.
Close to them in what ?
Do people forget that Sony has there streaming service that out and there also remote play .
Yeah people say that it is crap but then that is why the partner with MS .
Yup. The one X bought them credibility again. It is a great little machine but it never would have been expected to overtake ps4.
Microsoft's market cap is a trillion dollars my friends, Sony's is 60 billion, if wants MS wants to make it difficult for Sony & make it so they can't compete at their prices, they will.
This is not a good thing though, something needs to be done about these mega corps but i won't get political.
This is not a good thing though, something needs to be done about these mega corps but i won't get political.
So why don't they? They have the capital. If you consider that, it doesn't make sense. Unless the Xbox Division and gaming just isn't that interesting regarding roi.
Sony have never recovered from the PS3 losses, it hurt their whole company & allowed corp's like Samsung to get a foothold in areas Sony use to dominate, Microsoft lost even more on 360 & didn't even notice it, they even gave people new 360's if they got RROD because what's another few billion for MS?
If this were the case sony would have lost every generation.
They are taking it more serious now, not only did Spencer get a big promotion, MS knows there is big money in sub fee's, they see Xbox as a gaming version of Netflix.
The politics of Xbox at Microsoft is an interesting one, a lot of people at MS saw the division as a joke until now.
You need to stop looking at things like that .
Sony market cap was around that when they were losing huge amounts on PS3 .
MS can't price them self out the market either and every division has it own budget .
Okay now i know you have no idea what you are talking about .
Sony losing market share to Samsung in TV for eg had nothing to do with PS3.
Also MS did not lose more than Sony on 360 .
Im prety sure that Sony now is worth more that it was around ps3, they have other areas where they are making a lot of money.
Btw, Company worth 1 Trilion does not mean they have 1T to spend, not even close.
Why Xbox one X launched at 499 then? Make it 199 to move more units
I have been in this thread for over a year. I have been salivating for leaks and insider info. "SSD" triggers my fight or flight response. My lottery fantasies include vacations, cars, and HBM. I pity those caught in the TF cycle.
Legitimate Xbox news coming and people are leaking it?!? Don't want to be spoiled, better GTFO!
Legitimate Xbox news coming and people are leaking it?!? Don't want to be spoiled, better GTFO!
I personally am not focused on the TF battle.
I can't image the upgrade we are getting with that SSD and new tech vs whats in the current consoles.
I'm guessing this 7.5/8Tf number from old posts are based on specs that might have been planed for the 2019 launch which didn't happen. It's not unreasonable to think that Sony were going to be releasing 2 consoles just like MS are and the lower spec console was their answer to Lockhart whilst the 10Tf+ specs that have gone around were from their answer to Anaconda?
If there was indeed a delay then maybe Sony decided to just go all in on the Anaconda equivalent spec,
OR
They actually are still releasing 2 models just like MS and we just don't know it yet. That's why we are seeing wildly varying numbers?
They lost over 5 billion on PS3, that is not something to brush off & it can mean they have to make cuts into R&D & other areas, you better believe other corps like LG & Samsung knew it was time to double down just when the almost invincible Sony was suddenly in the red.
MS did lose a similar amount & i expect more once you get in RROD repairs, but XBL Gold fee's & more game sales during the early Gen 7 years muddle the numbers as that helped keep the Xbox division from going massively in the red.
Won't happen. MS need to make a profit and please shareholders. They can't sell products at an insane loss to get one up over Sony. As somebody else has said, they could have done that with the X and sold it at £299 or even £250 and blow Sony out of the water already in terms of pricing.
I personally don't expet more than 16GB. Coupled with the kinda SSD they are pushing having more than 16GB of RAM will just be overkill. but I have also suggested a way based on leaks, what they have done in the past and again, the SSD... tht they could still end up having like a total of 20GB of RAM.
The PS4pro has 1GB of DDR3 RAM along with the 8GB of GDDR5. An NVMe SSD will need its own RAM. Usually around 500MB - 1GB/TB. They could instead increase that DDR4 "SSD" RAM to around 3GB/4GB and share that between the SSD and the OS. That way the games "apps" have access to all 16GB of their fastest and most expensive RAM. And also having an SSD that can move over 4GB/s second means they can have a swap feature where in the one second it takes switching between OS and apps data n moved in/out of that Apps RAM. Ts would allow them to have like 1.5GB/2GB RAM for the OS reserve and up to 4GB/6GB total RAM when the OS is on the front end or using OS "apps" like the browser, youtube or Netflix.
$50-$75 sounds about right. but considering the number of revenue streams "PlayStation" have now I wouldn't write off up to a $100 loss/console. If they are selling at $399, then I see them taking around $75-$100 loss/console. If they are selling for $499, then I see them taking a loss of under $75/console. Maybe even under $50.
Even including potential server stuff, I don't see MS having enough projected numbers for a monopsony play. Not enough to make suppliers starve the rest of the industry / harm their relationships with Sony. The only player who is making those kinds of moves with advanced buys / funding agreements is Apple to get supplies for yearly iOS product volume. You need those kinds of numbers.
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Im not even saying something like making Anaconda $100, but they can afford to take a bit more of a loss than Sony & i thought that was agreed on Era? Anaconda could be $599 but i really doubt it.
Exactly.
I can't believe people have YET to learn the basics. There's zero reason for an Xbox/Sony insider to be able to leak the specs of both machines.
Legit leaks from third parties, you know where someone could possibly have access to both machines, can't happen that far from release.
Any leak that includes pricing more than a couple of months ahead of when Sony/MS will actually announce said price is bullshit.
The timing for all of this brings up a lot of questions.
Since Sony skipped on E3, they gave small details about their next-gen console early.
Now MS has the stage at E3, will they discuss their next-gen plans as well?
If so, depending on how much info they give, that either puts Sony in a good or bad position afterwards depending on what was shared.
Since Sony skipped on E3, they gave small details about their next-gen console early.
Now MS has the stage at E3, will they discuss their next-gen plans as well?
If so, depending on how much info they give, that either puts Sony in a good or bad position afterwards depending on what was shared.
I'm sorry, but this is really shallow thinking on your part. Companies just don't work like that. An Xbox division exists "within" the MS corporation for a reason. Same way how a "PlayStation" division exists within the Sony corporation for a reason. The Xbox division can't just come and be posting billions of dollars of loses in each quarter. And that is exactly what trying to price sony out of the market will do. You will be talking like making a $550 console but selling it at $300 to Sony's $400. If MS does that? It will be the last time we ever hear of an Xbox. The division was already on the chopping block this gen and that was just it not being as profitable as they wanted it to be.
OK...... I see you really don't get how these things work. In that case, more power to you I guess.
Yup.... how can leakers know the prices when even sony and MS don't even know their prices yet? They will have a limit that they are not going to exceed set in stone, but the lower limit is still u in the air. All it takes is for RAM pricing to change between now and say the next ear and boom....new price range lol.
There is nothing that MS can do or say that "puts" sony in a bad position. And the only thing MS can say that will put Sony in a good position is if they come out and say "we will still be using HDDs because capacity is good and we love them".
This is just an announcement, it doesn't matter what MS says because Sony has not actually said anything. It will only matter when Sony comes and says their own shit. So if MS were to say we are making an over 12Tf next-gen console, then 6 months later sony comes and reveals a 10TF o less than 12Tf console... then yeah, that's a posthumous E3 2019 win for MS lol.
But or now it doesn't matter. Hell, MS can reveal a 12TF+ next-gen spec and all sony will have to do s just say "we are happy or MS" and that would be enough to smear such an announcement. Point is nothing means anything until we know what everything is.
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MS will take a hit, as will Sony, when their new consoles launch. That's a given. Launching a console at £599 isn't going to cut it with the public. But selling a console at a huge loss would be unwise and very risky. The console needs to make a profit eventually and recoup the early losses.
"The Xbox division can't just come and be posting billions of dollars of loses in each quarter"
This is literally the Xbox division from 2001 until possibly even now, there is rumours it's actually never been overall profitable even once back in 2017. Just rumours but we know the Xbox & 360 did indeed lose billions.
Yes,we know Anex :) I have a feeling you will be really disappointed if it turns out PS5 only has GDDR6 inside.
If this is an ms projection of what Sony will do we should keep in mind they basically don't think that Sony can design a powerful console. I need to find the source/article but ms knew they had to compromise for the Kinect and they still believed they'd be more powerful than ps4
I will be disappointed if Sony or MS puts out a console that doesn't push some technical boundaries and/or is a low value proposition. I think the chance of that is low.
I agree.But i am already satisfied with what we heard: Zen2,Navi,ultra fast SSD.
At $399 it would be a great value for mass market.
I m hoping for 449 or 499 as an enthusiast which is understandable I guess :D
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