Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

gofreak · Jun 9, 2019

BubblegumNemesis said:
Yes but probably not a lot, the base architecture would have been in place.

There was a rumour they switched architecture (from Vega) - although all of this is in the realm of rumour.

If both those rumours were true, it dovetails also with the delay of Navi and it's supposed re-spin into a more substantial departure from Vega than originally planned. And hence the conflicting rumours previously about what Navi actually was.

If Sony had a 2019 plan that they swapped for 2020, the decision for one over the other would have been made late 2017 at the latest. There's plenty of coinciding events around the AMD roadmap around that time to suggest if a switch was made, it was done because of the desire for a substantial spec change, and changes at an architectural level also.

Edit - by they by, though, I don't buy that Microsoft was thinking of a hypothetical 2019 PS5 when it made the vague comment about 'setting a performance benchmark' last year - MS would probably have known about that change for some time prior to e3 last year, if that was something that happened.

modiz · Jun 9, 2019

DukeBlueBall said:
Yeah don't think the 12 core stuff is real. Doesn't leave enough room for a mid gen upgrade.

12 core doesnt make sense either, the 12 core AMD is making is a 16 core with 4 disabled.
now everyone here answer me this.
if an AMD GPU with 40CU is the size of 250mm^2, how big would a console APU that has 2x that amount of CU, 16 cores and so mcuh ram?
i will give you a spoiler, its a big chip, not one that will fit in a console.

MrKlaw · Jun 9, 2019

gofreak said:
There was a rumour they switched architecture (from Vega) - although all of this is in the realm of rumour.

If both those rumours were true, it dovetails also with the delay of Navi and it's supposed re-spin into a more substantial departure from Vega than originally planned. And hence the conflicting rumours previously about what Navi actually was.

If Sony had a 2019 plan that they swapped for 2020, the decision for one over the other would have been made early 2017 at the latest. There's plenty of coinciding events around the AMD roadmap around that time to suggest if a switch was made, it was done because of the desire for a substantial spec change.

Bascially too many unknowns and moving parts to make any reasonable estimation of their current plans.

Ozorov · Jun 9, 2019

Less than 12 hours boys and gals

Igorth · Jun 9, 2019

Are we sure we are getting info tonight? I fear it will be vague..

Liabe Brave · Jun 9, 2019

modiz said:
[Arcturus] most likely the first navi chip.

No, that was probably "Arachne". The code names of individual Navi products all seem to begin with "Ar-" and be followed by the next letter alphabetically for each one. So...

Ara-
Arb-
Arcturus
Arden
Are-
Arf-
Argalus
Arh-
Ariel
Arj-
etc.

Raiden · Jun 9, 2019

So wait Microsoft their conference is in 11 hours? But e3 is starting on the 11th?

Ozorov · Jun 9, 2019

Igorth said:
Are we sure we are getting info tonight? I fear it will be vague..

I think it will be vague too
Like scorpios first reveal

gundamkyoukai · Jun 9, 2019

Was reading over big_z posts again but it vague to figure out numbers since he did not say if over or below Stadia .
The is of course using the new XB leak as a base ( don't know how true that is )

Binabik15 · Jun 9, 2019

Hats off to MS if they push out a 600-700mm^2 chip console of biblical proportions harkening back to the OG Xbox.

Would also make my PS5 12 Tflops prediction that I did in the last poll less outlandish, though you could always argue with Navi vs. Vega flops to be more right ;)

modiz · Jun 9, 2019

gundamkyoukai said:
Was reading over big_z posts again but it vague to figure out numbers since he did not say if over or below Stadia .
The is of course using the new XB leak as a base ( don't know how true that is )

please dont use that tweet as your base. the size of that APU and the TDP and the price are not close to being possible

BradGrenz · Jun 9, 2019

Raiden said:
So wait Microsoft their conference is in 11 hours? But e3 is starting on the 11th?

The 11th is when the show floor opens. Conferences have always happened before then.

RevengeTaken · Jun 9, 2019

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/commen...411bda1d28&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=byhqnd

The perfect ray tracer, also labeled as "The Ray Engine" (Nathan Carr, 2002), requires a very powerful APU with cache-coherent access to a unified high-bandwidth memory. All other approaches used until today are workarounds that aim to compensate for the absence of such a processor.

Gamer17 · Jun 9, 2019

gundamkyoukai said:
Was reading over big_z posts again but it vague to figure out numbers since he did not say if over or below Stadia .
The is of course using the new XB leak as a base ( don't know how true that is )

can you show me which post?since when big_z is an insider?

CerealEnthusiast · Jun 9, 2019

It's probably been said but that dude giving those devkit specs, I've read other tweets from him (he's French and I am too), and he sounds like a 14yo. I give zero legitimacy to everything he said.

modiz · Jun 9, 2019

Gamer17 said:
can you show me which post?since when big_z is an insider?

i am not sure myself since when he is an "insider" but his claim is that PS5 is closer in performance to stadia, than it is to anaconda.

Dog · Jun 9, 2019

Ozorov said:
Less than 12 hours boys and gals

Putty · Jun 9, 2019

Anthony Hopkins said:
however on a technical level don't expect to be using graphic technologies superior to Xbox's first party.

Would you kindly elaborate on this?

Deleted member 57421 · Jun 9, 2019

A dev kit with a HDD? That sounds a bit backwards. I hope there isn't one in either of the next consoles.

gundamkyoukai · Jun 9, 2019

modiz said:
please dont use that tweet as your base. the size of that APU and the TDP and the price are not close to being possible

Just went with it since i was feeling lazy to look up other leaks lol .

Gamer17 said:
can you show me which post?since when big_z is an insider?

Don't know if he is a insider which is why i ask earlier on .
But here are the post .

Flutter said:
12.9 teraflops has been floating around for the PS5 for a while now.

and yeah I wont be surprised if this is just a guess.

big_z said:
ps5 is closer to stadia than it is the xbox

Flutter said:
source?

Flutter said:
Well big_z I'll take your word for PS5's spec probably under 11 tfp

I'm ok with it! Wasn't in the last thread because I was going in with unreasonable expectations.

big_z said:
I didn't say it was below or above only commenting on the gap.

modiz · Jun 9, 2019

gundamkyoukai said:
Just went with it since i was feeling lazy to look up other leaks lol .

Don't know if he is a insider which is why i ask earlier on .
But here are the post .

also that "leaker" just posted on twitter that this is some dev kit version 2 that MS upped the specs after cerny's article... and yet brad sams is saying that scarlett is still in sampling lol.
basically just ignore that.
also because of brad's comment, dont expect any non thurrot/Window Central/other websites that MS gives information to as a reliable source.

Gamer17 · Jun 9, 2019

gundamkyoukai said:
Just went with it since i was feeling lazy to look up other leaks lol .

Don't know if he is a insider which is why i ask earlier on .
But here are the post .

thanks. that could be his personal opinion as he has never been an insider .

gundamkyoukai · Jun 9, 2019

modiz said:
also that "leaker" just posted on twitter that this is some dev kit version 2 that MS upped the specs after cerny's article... and yet brad sams is saying that scarlett is still in sampling lol.
basically just ignore that.
also because of brad's comment, dont expect any non thurrot/Window Central/other websites that MS gives information to as a reliable source.

True since when it comes to MS stuff those are the people with the better track record .

Xeontech · Jun 9, 2019

modiz said:
really is hard to follow.
big_z are you willing to perform verification with an admin?

Tbh, it sounds like major console warrior bs

Liabe Brave said:
No, that was probably "Arachne". The code names of individual Navi products all seem to begin with "Ar-" and be followed by the next letter alphabetically for each one. So...

Arachne
Arbelus
Arcturus
Arden
Arelius
Arfafel
Argalus
Arhat
Ariel
Arjun
etc.

How's that

modiz · Jun 9, 2019

Gamer17 said:
thanks. that could be his personal opinion as he has never been an insider .

he did claim in the past to know about some next generation games, but again, i dont trust anyone's posts on era unless they are willing to verify themselves through an era admin and be apporved as having access to said information.

gundamkyoukai · Jun 9, 2019

modiz said:
he did claim in the past to know about some next generation games, but again, i dont trust anyone's posts on era unless they are willing to verify themselves through an era admin and be apporved as having access to said information.

Truth is i don't mind if someone not verify but having no track record \history is what makes things hard .

Kschreck · Jun 9, 2019

I feel like we have had dozens of these "insiders" claiming to know the next gen specs and yet the specs are always different. At this point I think we should just wait. We may very well have a better idea of what is possible as E3 concludes. Maybe not actual numbers but at least some indication as to what next gen will be capable of.

Gamer17 · Jun 9, 2019

arcturus is navi based chip?we know arcuturus is a chip we are not sure based on which architecture ??

CerealEnthusiast · Jun 9, 2019

Putty said:
Would you kindly elaborate on this?

Doesn't PlayStation's API has extremely low level graphics libraries? Like, way more low level than Vulkan or DirectX? That's how first-party games looks absolutely bonkers every time IMO (also they have crazy dev's that apparently code some stuff using assembly to get the best possible perf).

Edit: I also agree with JahIthBer , if MS really wants to blur console gen and that all games come to all Xbox's, then any PS5 exclusive will absolutely destroy any Anaconda game, regardless if Anaconda is indeed the most powerful console (especially if it's marginal).

Deleted member 11276 · Jun 9, 2019

I hope next gen has dedicated AI hardware. Could help a lot for AI in games, better performance thanks to machine learning techniques like DLSS and easier development.

Deleted member 1589 · Jun 9, 2019

gundamkyoukai said:
Truth is i don't mind if someone not verify but having no track record \history is what makes things hard .

The thing is it's so close to Xbox's E3 conference that im not about to get into an argument over tf numbers that seems realistic, considering on what we know.

Won't be surprised if some legit PS5 info gets leaked in E3 week too.

gundamkyoukai · Jun 9, 2019

Flutter said:
The thing is it's so close to Xbox's E3 conference that im not about to get into an argument over tf numbers that seems realistic, considering on what we know.

Won't be surprised if some legit PS5 info gets leaked in E3 week too.

True but then again Sony is not at E3 so it make things harder to believe compare to before.
Since you could leak any other time and info would spread just as fast maybe faster .

modiz · Jun 9, 2019

CerealEnthusiast said:
Doesn't PlayStation's API has extremely low level graphics libraries? Like, way more low level than Vulkan or DirectX? That's how first-party games looks absolutely bonkers every time IMO (also they have crazy dev's that apparently code some stuff using assembly to get the best possible perf).

Edit: I also agree with JahIthBer , if MS really wants to blur console gen and that all games come to all Xbox's, then any PS5 exclusive will absolutely destroy any Anaconda game.

from my understanding, there is a significant difference between the APIs that sony and MS uses. MS's APIs are more scalable and more PC like (because of the amount of xbox sku + PC ports), while Sony's APIs are lower level and i assume are created with the help of ICE team at naughty dog.

that is because sony only needs to target one piece hardware, that they can make certain assumptions to squeeze out the performance, we already see that in the SSD patents mentioning unique APIs that are possible from the assumption that the machine is a game console that only deals with specific files.

Ozorov · Jun 9, 2019

So what do people expect tonight? 14 TF, next-gen architecture, 12c 80 CU etc? 👮‍♂️

CerealEnthusiast · Jun 9, 2019

modiz said:
from my understanding, there is a significant difference between the APIs that sony and MS uses. MS's APIs are more scalable and more PC like (because of the amount of xbox sku + PC ports), while Sony's APIs are lower level and i assume are created with the help of ICE team at naughty dog.

that is because sony only needs to target one piece hardware, that they can make certain assumptions to squeeze out the performance, we already see that in the SSD patents mentioning unique APIs that are possible from the assumption that the machine is a game console that only deals with specific files.

Of course. Microsoft need to target a much wider range of devices while Sony only target 1. It's exactly the same thing with iOS and Android. The ICE Team literally is the cook of all the special sauces Sony needs.

Gamer17 · Jun 9, 2019

Ozorov said:
So what do people expect tonight? 14 TF, next-gen architecture, 12c 80 CU etc? 👮‍♂️

for 80 CU what will be the size of APU? is that even feasible?

modiz · Jun 9, 2019

Ozorov said:
So what do people expect tonight? 14 TF, next-gen architecture, 12c 80 CU etc? 👮‍♂️

none of that crazy business lol.
you will get what thurrot has reported tonight again.
next year you will see the official specs, which will be lower, my personal expectation is 11TF navi GPU.

Ozorov · Jun 9, 2019

Gamer17 said:
for 80 CU what will be the size of APU? is that even feasible?

I have no idea. Just saw that twitter dev kit "leak"

modiz said:
none of that crazy business lol.
you will get what thurrot has reported tonight again.
next year you will see the official specs, which will be lower, my personal expectation is 11TF navi GPU.

What did thurrot said?

modiz · Jun 9, 2019

Ozorov said:
I have no idea. Just saw that twitter dev kit "leak"

What did thurrot said?

2x performance multiplier over the xbox one x.
the specs mentioned in the tweet are unrealistic.

Ozorov · Jun 9, 2019

modiz said:
2x performance multiplier over the xbox one x.
the specs mentioned in the tweet are unrealistic.

Ah yeah that one. Yeah that's probably it. Brad Sams seems to have a good insight in what MS is doing. 11-12 TF Navi should be pretty awesome tho, right?

Gamer17 · Jun 9, 2019

Ozorov said:
Ah yeah that one. Yeah that's probably it. Brad Sams seems to have a good insight in what MS is doing. 11-12 TF Navi should be pretty awesome tho, right?

11 to 12 TF navi GPU will be amazing paired with ssd and zen

Deleted member 57421 · Jun 9, 2019

Remember the golden rule - temper your expectations. I'm going with 10. If it's more YAY, if it's the same OK, it's less MEH.

Ozorov · Jun 9, 2019

Gamer17 said:
11 to 12 TF navi GPU will be amazing paired with ssd and zen

Yeah! I also saw that Brad is unsure if they will show Infinite gameplay on "next-gen" or if was just a trailer. I hope they do a like they did with the Scorpio reveal. "Lets see what this monster can do" 🤡

chris 1515 · Jun 9, 2019

From David Graham on B3D

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/amd-navi-speculation-rumours-and-discussion-2019.61042/page-34

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/amd-navi-speculation-rumours-and-discussion-2019.61042/page-35

The highest SKU launching will be named RX 5700 XT, 40CU, 9.5TFLOPS, 1900MHz max clocks, with 1750MHz being the typical gaming clock. Power delivery is through 2X 6pin connectors.

It's legit. It appears Navi indeed sacrificed compute to gain more pixel pushing power, just like Digital Foundry predicted/anticipated. A Vega 64 is 12.5 TFLOPS, yet an RX 5700 is 8.5 TFLOPS at typical gaming clocks, and it's faster than a Vega 64.

It seems reduce compute power but better performance in game

Putty · Jun 9, 2019

chris 1515 said:
From David Graham on B3D

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/amd-navi-speculation-rumours-and-discussion-2019.61042/page-34

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/amd-navi-speculation-rumours-and-discussion-2019.61042/page-35

It seems reduce compute power but better performance in game

Very nice.

DiscoThunder · Jun 9, 2019

Do you reckon the DS4 will work on the PS5?

I want to buy another DS4 on sale, now but maybe not if they will be useless on PS5.

I wouldn't mind if the controller stayed exactly the same, just with a better battery.

Ozorov · Jun 9, 2019

chris 1515 said:
From David Graham on B3D

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/amd-navi-speculation-rumours-and-discussion-2019.61042/page-34

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/amd-navi-speculation-rumours-and-discussion-2019.61042/page-35

It seems reduce compute power but better performance in game

Very nice. But I guess that will make MS and Sony not talk much (if anything) about tflops

amstradcpc · Jun 9, 2019

chris 1515 said:
From David Graham on B3D

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/amd-navi-speculation-rumours-and-discussion-2019.61042/page-34

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/amd-navi-speculation-rumours-and-discussion-2019.61042/page-35

It seems reduce compute power but better performance in game

Back to the 8,5 Tflops line. Remember that the 9,5 tflop chip is 180 watts...

TheRaidenPT · Jun 9, 2019

amstradcpc said:
Back to the 8,5 Tflops line. Remember that the 9,5 tflop chip is 180 watts...

8.5 - 12 teraflops max

FacesAndAces · Jun 9, 2019

It's 8.5Tflops. Bookmark it!

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

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