Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

Dantero · Jun 12, 2019

I really hope ms will knock it out of the park with anaconda. With game pass it's basically already set in stone that I will buy/play most of my 3rd party games on Xbox. I will certainly also get a ps5 for the exclusives shortly after and with the quality of Sony 1st party lately I'm pretty certain these games will be graphical powerhouses.

So for me the most important thing is that anaconda has all the power they can possibly put inside that console. With my time I had with the one X they got me convinced that they are going to deliver. I could care less about the price. Do it MS. Lockhart could be a great thing for the bedroom and the kids.

Really looking forward to next gen. I think there will be a great console for everybody's taste. Wars a waste of energy if you know you could easily enjoy the benefits of both.

Deleted member 1589 · Jun 12, 2019

Liabe Brave said:
Yes it did.

No it didn't. In reality, from the beginning PS3 outsold Xbox 360 worldwide. It sold more in 2007. It sold more in 2008. It sold more in 2009. It sold more in 2010. In 2011, Kinect's massive popularity did put 360 on top (though the PS3 also had a better year than the previous one, and the gap wasn't huge). PS3 took the lead back again in 2012.

I wasn't talking about in comparison with the 360, but with the previous gen.

TheThreadsThatBindUs · Jun 12, 2019

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
I appreciate the dedication to the cause gents.

I'll be your man on the inside, to promote your posts in smug satisfaction while your accounts are banned ;-)

Kyoufu and anexanhume, it just occured to me that I must be misunderstanding the point of your ban bet.

Are you both betting on HBM, and if right you take a ban? -- cuz that's how I first read it -- which of course in hindsight doesn't make sense.. lol

Or are you betting against HBM and if you're wrong you take a ban?

Imitation Of Life · Jun 12, 2019

jaggies said:
What we have on paper right now is very little information about the boxes.

Navi
Zen 2
SSD
Hardware RT

That's quite a lot in common and both are presumably launching in the same holiday window. The most likely outcome is they will be very similar in performance and price.

TheThreadsThatBindUs · Jun 12, 2019

Question to the known devs in here about RT:

I'm curious, do you expect RT to play a big role in next-gen console games?

Or are we still likely to see baked lighting and more novel approximations be prevalent?

cc Locuza, 40KAl, Fafalada

Gay Bowser · Jun 12, 2019

Imitation Of Life said:
Navi
Zen 2
SSD
Hardware RT

That's really not a lot of information at all. How many Navi CUs? How much RAM, and how fast? How much SSD storage, and how fast? What's the cooling like?

Do you think it's impossible for two companies to make two consoles with Zen 2, Navi, and an SSD, with different specs and different prices? If that's the claim you're making, I'd really like to see you make it. And if that's not the claim you're making, why are you insisting that the machines will be so similar?

Imitation Of Life · Jun 12, 2019

jaggies said:
That's really not a lot of information at all. How many Navi CUs? How much RAM, and how fast? How much SSD storage, and how fast? What's the cooling like?

Do you think it's impossible for two companies to make two consoles with Zen 2, Navi, and an SSD, with different specs and different prices? If that's the claim you're making, I'd really like to see you make it. And if that's not the claim you're making, why are you insisting that the machines will be so similar?

So your stance is that while the consoles will have similar parts Anaconda will have better or at worst equal versions of all those components because Microsoft wants it more and Sony is afraid to go above $399. I'm convinced. No, not really.

Raybunzy · Jun 12, 2019

Navi looks interesting. Specially after the pdf about the architecture got released a few hours ago. Bodes nicely for this next gen.

VX1 · Jun 12, 2019

What does this mean?

formasymphonic · Jun 12, 2019

tomofthepops said:
Realistically why did Microsoft think Sony was going to release this year ? Surely that would have been easy for them to find out ?

Maybe they felt that Sony would want to target the 25th PS anniversary?

xICHIGOx · Jun 12, 2019

GUNDAM STARDUST said:
Explain. Because I bet you haven't watched that trailer in 4K on YouTube if you don't think it looks awesome.

Visual = number of view :|

Edit: Sorry for the error btw

Raybunzy · Jun 12, 2019

formasymphonic said:
Maybe they felt that Sony would want to target the 25th PS anniversary?

I doubt. They know better than that. Specially since they know more info about the manufacture of the next architecture apus, their roadmaps and availability. Same goes for Sony.

Deleted member 1589 · Jun 12, 2019

formasymphonic said:
Maybe they felt that Sony would want to target the 25th PS anniversary?

Yeah, and maybe it really was part of the plan.

Hell, Sony missed E3. Either probably the result of plans shifting, or they were ok with sacrificing it so their first party teams don't have to deal with making demos for it; and complete production for their games a few months before they shift their marketing focus to the PS5

modiz · Jun 12, 2019

VX1 said:
What does this mean?

from my understanding, it means that navi supports virtual link USB, which allows you to connect the VR by only one connection to the GPU to power it, transmit and reiceve.
it was already rumored that the PS5 will feature a USB connection like this by komachi before so that is not surprising.

chris 1515 · Jun 12, 2019

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Question to the known devs in here about RT:

I'm curious, do you expect RT to play a big role in next-gen console games?

Or are we still likely to see baked lighting and more novel approximations be prevalent?

cc Locuza, 40KAl, Fafalada

https://twitter.com/SebAaltonen/status/1138331377387130880

sebbbi like it and some locuza comment

Roukira · Jun 12, 2019

Is it realistic to expect lower end navis shortly after the release of 5700 series (I'm thinking about 100-250$ range). I'm curious to see what those are capable. I was thinking it would be released before 2020 because we're expecting the stronger navi in that year right ?

VX1 · Jun 12, 2019

modiz said:
from my understanding, it means that navi supports virtual link USB, which allows you to connect the VR by only one connection to the GPU to power it, transmit and reiceve.
it was already rumored that the PS5 will feature a USB connection like this by komachi before so that is not surprising.

I see,ok.

klik · Jun 12, 2019

Raybunzy said:
Navi looks interesting. Specially after the pdf about the architecture got released a few hours ago. Bodes nicely for this next gen.

Any link?

chris 1515 · Jun 12, 2019

klik said:
Any link?

https://gpureport.cz/info/Graphics_Architecture_06102019.pdf

modiz · Jun 12, 2019

chris 1515 said:
https://gpureport.cz/info/Graphics_Architecture_06102019.pdf

seems like they did a lot of changes, doesnt look like a "RDNA x gcn" hybrid that was going on.

chris 1515 · Jun 12, 2019

modiz said:
seems like they did a lot of changes, doesnt look like a "RDNA x gcn" hybrid that was going on.

Not at all. A true change, this is great next gen will launch using a good GPU architecture.

Lukas Taves · Jun 12, 2019

Expy said:
What if you want to run the game at 1080p on PS5/Anaconda with full RT stable framerate and effects then? What does Lockhart become? 720p?

Why not? If the game is that heavy you gotta do what you gotta do

Bitch Pudding · Jun 12, 2019

PianoBlack said:
But Anaconda only has to fulfill both jobs if MS makes the choice to kill Lockhart... so why would they kill it? So what if Anaconda is a little slower than PS5? That's not a reason to suddenly flush all of your costs developing Lockhart and take a massive loss on Anaconda to try to drive it as the mass market device.

Quick and dirty:

No need for Lockhart since XBOX One S (and maybe X, but I don't think so!) can take care of the price sensitive customers. MS announcement not to deliver any next-gen exclusive 1st party titles in the forseeable future strongly indicates that XBOX One will still be around once Anaconda arrives.

Looking forward to anyone's feedback to those maps btw.

modiz · Jun 12, 2019

okay, i see very odd discussion here:

lockhart is NOT cancelled.
my proof?

https://www.thurrott.com/xbox/207904/microsofts-aims-to-set-the-bar-high-at-e3

thurrott which gets leaks from MS made an article before E3 to give expectation and talked about lockhart's perfromance target.
the reason why MS are not talking about this yet is they dont want to deliver muddied messaging this far out. so now they are talking about the project as a whole.
lockhart certainly still exists, and it will almost certainly still come out in holiady 2020 alongside the anaconda.

chris 1515 · Jun 12, 2019

Bitch Pudding said:
Quick and dirty:

No need for Lockhart since XBOX One S (and maybe X, but I don't think so!) can take care of the price sensitive customers. MS announcement not to deliver any next-gen exclusive 1st party titles in the forseeable future strongly indicates that XBOX One will still be around once Anaconda arrives.

Looking forward to anyone's feedback to those maps btw.

If Anaconda APU is 390 to 430 mm2, I am sure Lockhart will be there...

Gay Bowser · Jun 12, 2019

Imitation Of Life said:
So your stance is that while the consoles will have similar parts Anaconda will have better or at worst equal versions of all those components because Microsoft wants it more and Sony is afraid to go above $399. I'm convinced. No, not really.

First, my stance is that "Zen2, Navi, and SSD" doesn't equal "similar parts." There are a lot of parts that aren't in that equation, and there's a lot of potential differences between the parts that are. AMD's entire business model is based on selling different Zen2 and Navi parts, with different specs, for different amounts of money.

All consoles are designed to a price point. Sony needs their console to reach a large market, so they're going to price their console at a point where they feel that they can do so (and quickly). Microsoft is in a different position with Xbox; they've never been the market leader and they know going head-to-head with an undifferentiated product is unlikely to improve their market share. Rather than try to compete again with an undifferentiated product, a potentially more fruitful strategy would be to develop a differentiated product, even if it results in one with a smaller addressable market (such as making a premium console aimed at core gamers who are willing to spend more). A unique product that is compelling to at least some people could get Microsoft a larger share of the market than a product that was identical to their competitor except without the leading brand name. (Even if their share size is unchanged, they may get a more desirable share; a premium console that was aimed squarely at hardcore gamers might attract a wealthier audience who buys more games on average, for example.)

Microsoft has the freedom to do this precisely because they're not the market leader, and because consoles are only a portion of their Xbox strategy, which is in turn only a small portion of their corporate strategy. The next Xbox doesn't have to be all things to all people in the same way Sony needs the next PlayStation to be, in other words. An Xbox One successor that matches the market share of the Xbox One could be successful for Microsoft. A PlayStation 5 that matches the market share of the Xbox One would be a huge, panic-inducing market contraction for Sony.

It has nothing to do with secret sauce or "wanting it more." It just has to do with what each company needs out of their next-gen console, given their different positions now.

And lose the attitude, you're not clever enough for it to be endearing.

Lukas Taves · Jun 12, 2019

Liabe Brave said:
I'm not sure I follow the logic here. One X has a greater than 4x GPU advantage over One S, so it's not surprising that resolution can sometimes be raised 4x or more. What does that have to do with having to support Lockhart and Anaconda? As I've pointed out multiple times, devs often choose not to support One X right now. Making dual-machine support mandatory next gen--which would inevitably be the case--therefore represents an extra commitment of resources. It doesn't matter how straightforward it is (though I think you're also underselling the effort involved).

Ok, then there are cases where Xbone is 900p and X is 4K and X still performs better. That goes above the processing power difference.

But it was just to add to the point that is, despite the performance delta Lockhart and Anaconda are going to be on the same architecture, unlike S and X where the memory setup is completely different and the more powerful machine has the more straightforward design ie requires more optimizations.

Liabe Brave said:
I wouldn't be so sure of that. In addition to a less-powerful GPU, Lockhart is also going to have a lot less RAM, and almost certainly lower memory bandwidth. That may mostly be unimportant if the resolution is lowered so much...but to say it will never have an effect on framerate as long as you reduce res is definitely not justified at this point.

Sure there are cases that this can happen, though you oughta agree they will definitely very rare based on the sheer resolution delta alone.

Plus, Ms controla the design, they can definitely scale in such a way to offer significant savings from them, but still offers the same or even better bandwidth for resolution ratio. It's very possible and even expected that even with significant less bandwidth lockhart will be more adequated to 1080p targets than Ps5/Anaconda at 4K

foolishoptimist · Jun 12, 2019

Did MS announce any Next Gen exclusives?

Could Lockhart have been killed/delayed due to lack of dedicated next gen software? We had the rumor that everything would be cross-gen for early launch period. It would be impossible to market/justify a dedicated 1080p box that plays the same games as the S and X.

Bitch Pudding · Jun 12, 2019

modiz said:
okay, i see very odd discussion here:

lockhart is NOT cancelled.
my proof?

https://www.thurrott.com/xbox/207904/microsofts-aims-to-set-the-bar-high-at-e3
thurrott which gets leaks from MS made an article before E3 to give expectation and talked about lockhart's perfromance target.
the reason why MS are not talking about this yet is they dont want to deliver muddied messaging this far out. so now they are talking about the project as a whole.
lockhart certainly still exists, and it will almost certainly still come out in holiady 2020 alongside the anaconda.

That isn't proof. This barely qualifies as in indication, either.

MAYBE the author of that article has information from insiders. However, MS' messages clearly changed within the last couple of weeks and that's certainly not a coincidence. So maybe the thurrott's opinion piece is just based on old(er) info, who knows...

gremlinz1982 · Jun 12, 2019

Bitch Pudding said:
That isn't proof. This barely qualifies as in indication, either.

MAYBE the author of that article has information from insiders. However, MS' messages clearly changed within the last couple of weeks and that's certainly not a coincidence. So maybe the thurrott's opinion piece is just based on old(er) info, who knows...

That is Thurrott. They are mainly dedicated to Microsoft stuff, and they are very good at it too.

Nightengale · Jun 12, 2019

There is no evidence that Lockhart is cancelled.

MS's refusal to talk about it - is not fundamentally any different than how Scarlett was presented in the E3 video as just a singular, super powerful device. Without any pricing details, talking about how there's a 'cheaper' version of your grand vision of a powerful machine muddies your message a ton.

This is one aspect of MS's next-gen communication that imo - they've missed the mark on. Since E3 last year, they've allowed so much details on their next-gen plans ( 2 SKUs, heavy Gamepass focus, Gamecore, Xcloud, etc ) to leak via folks like Brad Sams/etc, even though there are parts of those plans where they clearly ain't gonna talk about yet... for 2 years.

Lukas Taves · Jun 12, 2019

Imitation Of Life said:
i'm thinking most games will get a performance mode and graphics mode so this won't be an issue.

I think the ideal was that we moved to a completely dynamic world.

Like the user has some options:

Preferred resolution
Preferred framerate
In case of need drop Resolution/Framerate

And the game would just adapt to that. If you select a resolution bigger than what the machine can currently support it will machine learn upscale to the desired resolution, otherwise it runs native. With that settings some games could chose to adapt graphical settings, but for most keeping the same setting across and adjusting framerate dynamically should be enough.

Thorrgal · Jun 12, 2019

statham said:
I like this guy. Going out with a bang.

Of course you do

Welfare said:
Wonder how much the plans have to change if Lockhart is dead? It would have been the lead seller while Anaconda just targets the high end crowd.

Also whatever R&D that went into it will be wasted, which probably could have gone into Anaconda.

If the Anaconda and the PS5 are similarly specced, and the PS5 aims to be the highest selling console, why can't Ana do the same?

Why does MS need a low end SKU when Sony doesn't?

I'd argue that the Ana could be the highest selling console at launch/first year anyway

Also, if the games are supposed to come out on the X for the first couple of years they don't really need the Lockhart, whereas the PS4 won't be able (supposedly) to play next gen exclusives.

You say the Ana targets the high end crowd, but at $499 maybe that's the middle of the road crowd, what in 2013 was the $399, specially if the PS5 is also $499.

All speculation of course.

Raide · Jun 12, 2019

I really don't see the need for Lockhart. Just make a revision to the 1X, drop the price and have that as the entry level system. It's more than capable of kicking out what people want and leave the high end to Scarlett.

GamingCJ · Jun 12, 2019

Nightengale said:
There is no evidence that Lockhart is cancelled.

MS's refusal to talk about it - is not fundamentally any different than how Scarlett was presented in the E3 video as just a singular, super powerful device. Without any pricing details, talking about how there's a 'cheaper' version of your grand vision of a powerful machine muddies your message a ton.

This is one aspect of MS's next-gen communication that imo - they've missed the mark on. Since E3 last year, they've allowed so much details on their next-gen plans ( 2 SKUs, heavy Gamepass focus, Gamecore, Xcloud, etc ) to leak via folks like Brad Sams/etc, even though there are parts of those plans where they clearly ain't gonna talk about yet... for 2 years.

I have absolutely no clue if MS has cancelled Lockhart, but I think a 'We will have one cheap entry Model and one super awesome powerful Premium one' would have been a totally fine message without muddying anything. Also it is kinda weird why they even would have talked about multiple Nextboxes at e3 2018.

FF Seraphim · Jun 12, 2019

Raide said:
I really don't see the need for Lockhart. Just make a revision to the 1X, drop the price and have that as the entry level system. It's more than capable of kicking out what people want and leave the high end to Scarlett.

Would that make sense considering the new ssd features they are trying to implement? Wouldn't it be simpler to make a new system then try to an old one to work?

Imitation Of Life · Jun 12, 2019

jaggies said:
First, my stance is that "Zen2, Navi, and SSD" doesn't equal "similar parts." There are a lot of parts that aren't in that equation, and there's a lot of potential differences between the parts that are. AMD's entire business model is based on selling different Zen2 and Navi parts, with different specs, for different amounts of money.

All consoles are designed to a price point. Sony needs their console to reach a large market, so they're going to price their console at a point where they feel that they can do so (and quickly). Microsoft is in a different position with Xbox; they've never been the market leader and they know going head-to-head with an undifferentiated product is unlikely to improve their market share. Rather than try to compete again with an undifferentiated product, a potentially more fruitful strategy would be to develop a differentiated product, even if it results in one with a smaller addressable market (such as making a premium console aimed at core gamers who are willing to spend more). A unique product that is compelling to at least some people could get Microsoft a larger share of the market than a product that was identical to their competitor except without the leading brand name. (Even if their share size is unchanged, they may get a more desirable share; a premium console that was aimed squarely at hardcore gamers might attract a wealthier audience who buys more games on average, for example.)

Microsoft has the freedom to do this precisely because they're not the market leader, and because consoles are only a portion of their Xbox strategy, which is in turn only a small portion of their corporate strategy. The next Xbox doesn't have to be all things to all people in the same way Sony needs the next PlayStation to be, in other words. An Xbox One successor that matches the market share of the Xbox One could be successful for Microsoft. A PlayStation 5 that matches the market share of the Xbox One would be a huge, panic-inducing market contraction for Sony.

It has nothing to do with secret sauce or "wanting it more." It just has to do with what each company needs out of their next-gen console, given their different positions now.

And lose the attitude, you're not clever enough for it to be endearing.

You wrote all that just to say basically the same thing people have been saying for months as to why Anaconda will be much more powerful despite any evidence to the contrary. You didn't just explain something interesting. And it comes off as the same thinly veiled wishful thinking. Meh. We can end this now.

Raide · Jun 12, 2019

FF Seraphim said:
Would that make sense considering the new ssd features they are trying to implement? Wouldn't it be simpler to make a new system then try to an old one to work?

I don't see the need to fragment a new generation over multiple consoles. Despite a recent interview with Phil where he sees all the systems floating along being supported, I don't see the need for Lockhart, unless they make it and drop Xbox One and 1X.

M4xim1l1ano · Jun 12, 2019

I have mentioned this before but MS should scratch the Lockhart idea and try to make so that Anaconda can be bought in different ways. This way you can siphon in all customers to "the best possible experience" instead of segmenting the market with those who can afford the best experience and those who have to settle with less.

Yes, videogames is a luxury item but considering the move to services (Gamespass, streaming whatnot), MS should allow Anaconda to be sold either as just a console and people can add the services they want or they could offer a lowered priced Anaconda with XboxLive and Gamepass for a 2-3 year contract or make it even cheaper for a "Generation contract". By offering different ways/alternatives to buy Anaconda, MS provides the best experience and they dont segment the market with a lowered powered machine.

They can let Xbox One X be their "low powered" machine and for people who wants to play the newest games on the X, it will have to be through xCloud.

so yeah, MS should make attractive offerings for Anaconda and not divide the market with low and high tier options for next gen.

isahn · Jun 12, 2019

GamingCJ said:
I have absolutely no clue if MS has cancelled Lockhart, but I think a 'We will have one cheap entry Model and one super awesome powerful Premium one' would have been a totally fine message without muddying anything. Also it is kinda weird why they even would have talked about multiple Nextboxes at e3 2018.

I was thinking that the Lockhart could have been useful to counter a 2019 PS5 launch. In 2020 MS would have launched Lockhart priced accordingly the 2020 PS5 price and similarly specced along with the more expensive performance leader anaconda. With Sony backtracking its 2019 launch strategy I honestly don't see the point of Lockhart anymore. MS could still launch a cheap streaming box though

Imitation Of Life · Jun 12, 2019

Lephotographeur said:
I have mentioned this before but MS should scratch the Lockhart idea and try to make so that Anaconda can be bought in different ways. This way you can siphon in all customers to "the best possible experience" instead of segmenting the market with those who can afford the best experience and those who have to settle with less.

Yes, videogames is a luxury item but considering the move to services (Gamespass, streaming whatnot), MS should allow Anaconda to be sold either as just a console and people can add the services they want or they could offer a lowered priced Anaconda with XboxLive and Gamepass for a 2-3 year contract or make it even cheaper for a "Generation contract". By offering different ways/alternatives to buy Anaconda, MS provides the best experience and they dont segment the market with a lowered powered machine.

They can let Xbox One X be their "low powered" machine and for people who wants to play the newest games on the X, it will have to be through xCloud.

so yeah, MS should make attractive offerings for Anaconda and not divide the market with low and high tier options for next gen.

I think that if the contract model was viable for consoles it would have implemented by now. Since it hasn't been I can conclude that it isn't. This was discussed before last gen started. I don't think Gamepass makes it markedly more viable. It would be interesting to see them try though.

Cyborg · Jun 12, 2019

Sorry to ask this but I'm confused.

Are both consoles
- RDNA?
- Or RDNA in combination with GNC (Hybrid)

Cause I read only Next Gen RDNA has RT but Next Gen RDN is not in the next PS/Xbox. Right?

Can anyone explain how to read this all?

PJV3 · Jun 12, 2019

GamingCJ said:
I have absolutely no clue if MS has cancelled Lockhart, but I think a 'We will have one cheap entry Model and one super awesome powerful Premium one' would have been a totally fine message without muddying anything. Also it is kinda weird why they even would have talked about multiple Nextboxes at e3 2018.

There was nothing to muddy, it was so light on content that it would have improved the announcement to mention 2 consoles are in the works.

I don't know if it's cancelled but it's not needed for the launch window unless the premium console is an insane price, its going to fly off the shelves anyway.

gofreak · Jun 12, 2019

foolishoptimist said:
Did MS announce any Next Gen exclusives?

No. Indeed, while there isn't an express mandate, listening to Matt Booty their software strategy seems focused on access as a priority, across a variety of hardware using a 'PC settings'-like approach. Rather than using a new high end console as a new foundation. At least for the time being.

foolishoptimist said:
Could Lockhart have been killed/delayed due to lack of dedicated next gen software? We had the rumor that everything would be cross-gen for early launch period. It would be impossible to market/justify a dedicated 1080p box that plays the same games as the S and X.

I guess it could be tricky marketing a box that isn't playing launch games graphically any better than the X. Maybe that's the conundrum. But they would sport higher framerates for CPU bound games, faster loads etc. Maybe that would be enough to make a pitch? But yes, it might cause a little hesitancy on the marketing around it.

I don't think that's necessarily killing the idea though, but it might be why they're not immediately talking about it, until they can really show the full picture.

I think their first party software strategy actually supports the concept - another target SKU isn't going to break the back if first parties are already having to develop across 4+ targets. It's third parties who might be more wary of Lockhart as a concept, if they have eyes eventually on leaving older targets behind, or more quickly than MS first party does.

gofreak · Jun 12, 2019

Cyborg said:
Sorry to ask this but I'm confused.

Are both consoles
- RDNA?
- Or RDNA in combination with GNC (Hybrid)

Cause I read only Next Gen RDNA has RT but its not in the next PS/Xbox. Right?

Can anyone explain how to read this all?

RT is not a fundamental component of RDNA. Any more than the RT cores in nVidia's hardware are a fundamental component of Turing - they're not. There are Turing cards without RTX. RT acceleration seems to be a feature orthogonal to the base architecture in both the nVidia and AMD cases.

Both consoles are RDNA. They may be a second, 2020 instance of RDNA that's a bit tweaked vs the RDNA cards this year. That 2020 hw might have RT stuff in it, but there could well be SKUs that don't have it, while still being the same base 'RDNA 2020' arch as the others.There is no distinct 'RDNA/GCN' hybrid - if RDNA has legacies of GCN in it, so will every RDNA going forward.

Anthony Hopkins · Jun 12, 2019

dgrdsv said:
As I've said, because modern AMD's mid range GPUs consume considerably more power than AMD's mid range GPUs back at launch of PS4/XBO did.
I dunno if a mid gen upgrade (XBX specifically) is a good reference here but if we acknowledge it then it just proves the point: next gen machines will likely consume more power than this gen launch models did.

Yes, I agree about that they will be higher then launch, but going much higher then the 1x seems unlikely.

Cyborg · Jun 12, 2019

gofreak said:
RT is not a fundamental component of RDNA. Any more than the RT cores in nVidia's hardware are a fundamental component of Turing - they're not. There are Turing cards without RTX. RT acceleration seems to be a feature orthogonal to the base architecture in both the nVidia and AMD cases.

Both consoles are RDNA. They may be a second, 2020 instance of RDNA that's a bit tweaked vs the RDNA cards this year. That 2020 hw might have RT stuff in it, but there could well be SKUs that don't have it, while still be the same base 'RDNA 2020' arch as the others.There is no distinct 'RDNA/GCN' hybrid - if RDNA has legacies of GCN in it, so will every RDNA going forward.

Thank you.

Brown Intruder · Jun 12, 2019

isahn said:
With Sony backtracking its 2019 launch strategy

A couple of weeks ago this theory got trashed, now it has gained a lot of traction. Is there any concrete evidence for this?

Not singling you out by the way.

DriftingSpirit · Jun 12, 2019

Kyoufu said:
Cerny has been talking about RT hardware in consoles for years. I'll give you SSDs, though they're actually falling in price dramatically whilst HBM is still expensive as fuck. So expensive that Navi is marketed as a GDDR6 GPU for mass market consumers. AMD, Microsoft and Nvidia are all using GDDR6. Sony won't be any different.

The cost could be countered by the possibility of it lowering over the gen. Eat it now and reap the benefits later.

It probably is unlikely. I just don't think we can definitively rule it out. Things have already happened that only a few expected to happen.

BreakAtmo said:
BRO

It'll be interesting to see if the guy was right about the 7nm Samsung EUV PS4, for starters.

I wonder if MS being cool with confirming GDDR6, but Sony not doing the same, says anything beyond the companies having slightly different marketing approaches?

WE OUT HERE!

That is definitely one of the possible ways. A difference in RAM giving a slight edge.

Anthony Hopkins · Jun 12, 2019

Pheonix said:
Oh don't get me wrong. I don't believe a word of what I m saying. I never liked the idea of the whole two SKU thing, though I could understand and relate with why MS may have deemed it necessary. I can een se why they would think its a good idea. But its never been something I have been a fan of. I just talk about the possibilities of why things may be, even if I am a fan of it or not.

If I am to be honest, I think the two SK thing s dead. Something has changed.....

Yeah, with streaming and an a apparent longer cross gen period, if these are true then a Lockhart may not be necessary .
However I still think a cheaper console with about 1/2 the gpu power is not a bad idea and I think it could work.

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

What do you think could be the memory setup of your preferred console, or one of the new consoles?

GDDR6

GDDR6 + DDR4

HBM2

HBM2 + DDR4

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