Is that actually a thing? Cause that sounds awesome.Plus the SSD. Crazy read speeds means there's way less RAM being taken up by assets that the system is just guessing you might use soon.
Is that actually a thing? Cause that sounds awesome.Plus the SSD. Crazy read speeds means there's way less RAM being taken up by assets that the system is just guessing you might use soon.
Hmm. That video makes it sound like Infinite is next gen only. With the wondering about the impact of the new CPU on gameplay mechanics specifically, and how things like richer AI and destructibility can affect gameplay. I thought it was coming to XB1 also?
I think the biggest problem with the PS3 was that the 512MB of RAM was split into two pools of 256MB so you pretty much only had access to half the ram xbox 360 games had.Yes, its sought after.... or was.... but it's not anymore more complicated than every single game made for the PC. It's only a problem when you do have enough RAM to begin with, and you have a system as complex as the PS3.
If you have enough DDR4 ((at least 8GB for the CPU) and at least 8GB HBM for the GPU.... devs aren't going to have any problems with RAM. Even in a unified pool all RAM is addressed anyways.
Oh man, it's so hard to keep up with this thread during E3 AND AMD's full Navi reveal :)
I'm not sure if it was brought up, but I'm pretty sure both Flight Simulator and Halo Infinite used ray tracing in their trailers.
* A very noisy reflection on a curvy surface:
* A very noisy reflection of the chief on the wall:
In Halo it's on a flat surface but it's not SSR, it's very noisy (take a look at the 4K trailer in youtube, you can see the time-stamp in the image and see how noisy it is when the camera moves) and doesn't show occlusion artifacts even though the character is occluding most of the Chief.
Sometimes DF leaves me scratching my head. There is little to nothing next gen about that trailer. I get that they dont have anything to compare against but surely they can look at some tech demos to see whats possible.Hmm. That video makes it sound like Infinite is next gen only. With the wondering about the impact of the new CPU on gameplay mechanics specifically, and how things like richer AI and destructibility can affect gameplay. I thought it was coming to XB1 also?
Sometimes DF leaves me scratching my head. There is little to nothing next gen about that trailer. I get that they dont have anything to compare against but surely they can look at some tech demos to see whats possible.
The character models look pretty much the same as other current gen games. i thought the Halo 5 character models in the video looked very close to what we saw in Infinite. Even if they think it looks better, it doesnt matter because its not a next gen leap.
If slightly more accurate lighting, reflections and shadows at 60 fps are all what we expect from next gen consoles then maybe Phil was right and a 4 tflops Navi GPU should be the best way forward.
I think the biggest problem with the PS3 was that the 512MB of RAM was split into two pools of 256MB so you pretty much only had access to half the ram xbox 360 games had.
Would the SSDs help with mitigate lower RAM? IIRC, MS said they have something like 4 Gbps but Sony's patents were for 8Gbps. That should help them fill up the RAM extremely fast. Of course next gen games will look a lot better than current gen games and will use mega textures and a lot more NPC models. Would 8GB be enough for realistic looking open world games that look like this AND have NPCs on screen at once?
I guess it would depend on how much RAM is generally reserved for those predicted assets. Sounds like whatever improvements there would be in terms of RAM utilization would be heavily case-dependent.It's pretty simple. The data you need to draw the current frame needs to be in RAM. It's sent there by the storage drive. On PS4 you have like 5GB of RAM, but the HDD only sends data at about 100MB/s, so it would take about 50 seconds to swap everything in that RAM out. They deal with this by using only part of the RAM for the current scene, and the rest to hold assets the system expects will be needed for future frames.
On PS5, however, we will have an SSD with read speeds of likely 4-8GB/s. Assuming 20GB of RAM for games, you can swap all that data out in only 3-6 seconds. Ergo, the number of assets the RAM needs to hold for future frames and the guesswork it needs to engage in is massively reduced, as it can react far more quickly on the fly. Of course, the jump in RAM next generation will be only 3x rather than the 16x we've gotten in each new Playstation, so I'm not sure how much of the effect will improve games as opposed to simply making up for that smaller RAM jump. Can anyone help with explaining that?
In a best case scenario, yes. Tha'ts not how it works when it comes to randomly reading files from the drive (SSD or otherwise) in real life though.It's pretty simple. The data you need to draw the current frame needs to be in RAM. It's sent there by the storage drive. On PS4 you have like 5GB of RAM, but the HDD only sends data at about 100MB/s, so it would take about 50 seconds to swap everything in that RAM out. They deal with this by using only part of the RAM for the current scene, and the rest to hold assets the system expects will be needed for future frames.
On PS5, however, we will have an SSD with read speeds of likely 4-8GB/s. Assuming 20GB of RAM for games, you can swap all that data out in only 3-6 seconds. Ergo, the number of assets the RAM needs to hold for future frames and the guesswork it needs to engage in is massively reduced, as it can react far more quickly on the fly. Of course, the jump in RAM next generation will be only 3x rather than the 16x we've gotten in each new Playstation, so I'm not sure how much of the effect will improve games as opposed to simply making up for that smaller RAM jump. Can anyone help with explaining that?
Though it could have been shorthand. Regardless, the main point is that he indeed said that he heard PS5 was more powerful and it was specifically based on flops (or TFs).
I guess it would depend on how much RAM is generally reserved for those predicted assets. Sounds like whatever improvements there would be in terms of RAM utilization would be heavily case-dependent.
In a best case scenario, yes. Tha'ts not how it works when it comes to randomly reading files from the drive (SSD or otherwise) in real life though.
I haven't ready the Wired article so not up to speed on Cerny sauce, so could well be wrong. But for me reading how people are intepreting what the SSD means for these consoles (and don't get me wrong, it is good) is on-par with teraflop wars.
Hmm. That video makes it sound like Infinite is next gen only. With the wondering about the impact of the new CPU on gameplay mechanics specifically, and how things like richer AI and destructibility can affect gameplay. I thought it was coming to XB1 also?
Random reads aren't done at 3GB/s, though, although it is the area where their difference is felt most. Look through any SSD reviews posted recently (SATA or NVMe doesn't matter).Then how does it work, exactly? Because you sound like you're claiming that the SSD won't be much faster at reading random files, when I've heard that seek times are one of the biggest improvements to them.
The shadow artifacts are actually very common shadow map artifacts so I'm 99% sure that Halo Infinite's shadows are not using RT. I'm also not seeing any evidence for GI or AO using RT. Reflections are our last resort :)I noticed that too when they showed Chief's profile close up you could see the noisy shadowing in parts.
If they drop the FPS to 30 on the S, the CPU will have double the work time so that's equivalent to doubling its' power. So yeah, the S CPU will be a limiting factor but at least they can enjoy double the CPU power over Halo 5 as long as they don't mind leaving the XBO players behind regarding FPS. I mean, it's a cross-gen game, I think it's cool to have a 30FPS version on the 7 years old console.Hmm. That video makes it sound like Infinite is next gen only. With the wondering about the impact of the new CPU on gameplay mechanics specifically, and how things like richer AI and destructibility can affect gameplay. I thought it was coming to XB1 also?
Dictator - I see that we both caught that little reflection that might be RT. What do you say about the reflections in Flight Simulator? They have noise patterns that look very RT.Oh man, it's so hard to keep up with this thread during E3 AND AMD's full Navi reveal :)
I'm not sure if it was brought up, but I'm pretty sure both Flight Simulator and Halo Infinite used ray tracing in their trailers.
* A very noisy reflection on a curvy surface:
* A very noisy reflection of the chief on the wall:
In Halo it's on a flat surface but it's not SSR, it's very noisy (take a look at the 4K trailer in youtube, you can see the time-stamp in the image and see how noisy it is when the camera moves) and doesn't show occlusion artifacts even though the character is occluding most of the Chief.
Random reads aren't done at 3GB/s, though, although it is the area where their difference is felt most. Look through any SSD reviews posted recently (SATA or NVMe doesn't matter).
Also I'm not a game developer, but having "free" RAM doesn't make sense. You want to have stuff in RAM as much as feasibly possible as it's astronimcally faster than loading it from an SSD in to empty RAM to then process.
The shadow artifacts are actually very common shadow map artifacts so I'm 99% sure that Halo Infinite's shadows are not using RT. I'm also not seeing any evidence for GI or AO using RT. Reflections are our last resort :)
If the drop the FPS to 30 on the S, the CPU will have double the work time so that's equivalent to doubling its' power. So yeah, the S CPU will be a limiting factor but at least they can enjoy double the CPU power over Halo 5 as long as they don't mind leaving the XBO players behind regarding FPS. I mean, it's a cross-gen game, I think it's cool to have a 30FPS version on the 7 years old console.
Dictator - I see that we both caught that little reflection that might be RT. What do you say about the reflections in Flight Simulator? They have noise patterns that look very RT.
Time-stamp?What do you make of the red and green lights reflecting on Chief's armor?
Okay - free'd up RAM due to it requring less space - because it's quick to access the SSD versus a normal HDD? I don't even think this make sense and I can't believe anyone would build a game around that approach.Except nobody was talking about 'free RAM'. I'm was talking about less RAM being used for future frames, which would then be freed up for use on the frame currently being drawn, resulting in massively improved detail. I thought that was obvious.
I'll be surprised if we get anything close to RTX quality RT.I'm sorry guys, but it's been what....48 hours since th conference? There is no way in hell we wouldn't know by now if it was ray tracing, hell multiple people from upper management have been interviewed and not once did they say anything. It's not ray tracing. The fact that it's a debate as to whether it is....means that is either isn't or that it's such a comprised console form of it that it's not even worth it.
depends. The Scarlett reveal wasn't really impressive, but at least it gave us lots of good info about what would be coming.So did E3 make us more hyped up about Next Gen or did it throw in a ton of fuel to this thread and lit it up?
depends. The Scarlett reveal wasn't really impressive, but at least it gave us lots of good info about what would be coming.
A lot is still up in the air.
I'm 99% sure that Flight Simulator has RT reflections because of the noise in one of the shots and that wasn't discussed in interviews yet either. But yeah, there is a low chance of Halo using it without the PR department going wild on it.I'm sorry guys, but it's been what....48 hours since th conference? There is no way in hell we wouldn't know by now if it was ray tracing, hell multiple people from upper management have been interviewed and not once did they say anything. It's not ray tracing. The fact that it's a debate as to whether it is....means that is either isn't or that it's such a comprised console form of it that it's not even worth it.
That actually makes me think it's a reflection map and not RT. The camera does a 180 right a few seconds later and I can't spot the source of light that reflects on the Chief's visor. I mean there are red lights in the scene, but they don't seem to correlate to the lights in his visor. Funny thing is, the E3 2018 trailer did show reflection on the visor that was of an object outside of the frame, a warthog, but who knows how they had achieved that.4:47 in when the alarm goes off
I have to stop watching this trailer. I can only get so erect. LOL
I'm 99% sure that Flight Simulator has RT reflections because of the noise in one of the shots and that wasn't discussed in interviews yet either. But yeah, there is a low chance of Halo using it without the PR department going wild on it.
That actually makes me think it's a reflection map and not RT. The camera does a 180 right after that shot and I can't spot the source of lights that reflect on the Chief's visor. I mean there are red lights in the scene, but they don't seem to correlate to the lights in his visor.
So did E3 make us more hyped up about Next Gen or did it throw in a ton of fuel to this thread and lit it up?
We should be hyped up. Compare to where we were last year. We have now confirmed SSDs, hardware RT, brand new GPU architecture, and Zen 2 delivering on hopes and dreams.So did E3 make us more hyped up about Next Gen or did it throw in a ton of fuel to this thread and lit it up?
The lighting looks great, I really like how the smoke particles take light. But I don't think we can deduce RT from that visor, actually I'm pretty sure it's not after seeing the DF video that showed SSR artifacts in the last scene (5:40). But if the next Xbox really does have RT cores, I'm guessing 343 will incorporate RT in the Slip-Space engine.Gotcha, thanks. Either way the lighting looks amazing in this trailer.
Wait, I see the visor reflecting the red guide light from the floor on his visor. That's the source.
thought the light came from the corridor before the hangar bay.I'm 99% sure that Flight Simulator has RT reflections because of the noise in one of the shots and that wasn't discussed in interviews yet either. But yeah, there is a low chance of Halo using it without the PR department going wild on it.
That actually makes me think it's a reflection map and not RT. The camera does a 180 right a few seconds later and I can't spot the source of light that reflects on the Chief's visor. I mean there are red lights in the scene, but they don't seem to correlate to the lights in his visor. Funny thing is, the E3 2018 trailer did show reflection on the visor that was of an object outside of the frame, a warthog, but who knows how they had achieved that.
Having an SSD as fat as what we are about to get now is really that big a deal.In a best case scenario, yes. Tha'ts not how it works when it comes to randomly reading files from the drive (SSD or otherwise) in real life though.
I haven't ready the Wired article so not up to speed on Cerny sauce, so could well be wrong. But for me reading how people are intepreting what the SSD means for these consoles (and don't get me wrong, it is good) is on-par with teraflop wars.
Definitely not hyped. MS dropped the ball with their reveal and AMD disappointed with its terribly overpriced mediocre GPUs. No ray tracing in a $449 GPU in 2019? really?So did E3 make us more hyped up about Next Gen or did it throw in a ton of fuel to this thread and lit it up?
I just randomly saw that on Twitter. Anybody knows what this means?
That corridor and the hanger bay do have red lights, but it's hard to correlate a specific light to that reflection so it's impossible to know. If it was a cubic map, it would have red lights for sure because there are red lights everywhere in that ship so as long as we don't successfully see something out of the frame that reflects on the visor, we can't tell for sure. But the ending scene really does make a good case for it using SSR because of the occlusion artifacts.thought the light came from the corridor before the hangar bay.
I guess we need to wait for more info then.That corridor and the hanger bay do have red lights, but it's hard to correlate a specific light to that reflection so it's impossible to know. If it was a cubic map, it would have red lights for sure because there are red lights everywhere in that ship so as long as we don't successfully see something out of the frame that reflects on the visor, we can't tell for sure. But the ending scene really does make a good case for it using SSR because of the occlusion artifacts.
I just randomly saw that on Twitter. Anybody knows what this means?
Why not both?So did E3 make us more hyped up about Next Gen or did it throw in a ton of fuel to this thread and lit it up?
I just randomly saw that on Twitter. Anybody knows what this means?
I just randomly saw that on Twitter. Anybody knows what this means?
I just randomly saw that on Twitter. Anybody knows what this means?
I just randomly saw that on Twitter. Anybody knows what this means?
I just randomly saw that on Twitter. Anybody knows what this means?
What if the SSD is so fast enough that the OS doesn't have to take up space in the rams anymoe? Meaning we get full whatever rams they have next gen dedicated to games!I think the biggest problem with the PS3 was that the 512MB of RAM was split into two pools of 256MB so you pretty much only had access to half the ram xbox 360 games had.
Would the SSDs help with mitigate lower RAM? IIRC, MS said they have something like 4 Gbps but Sony's patents were for 8Gbps. That should help them fill up the RAM extremely fast. Of course next gen games will look a lot better than current gen games and will use mega textures and a lot more NPC models. Would 8GB be enough for realistic looking open world games that look like this AND have NPCs on screen at once?
I just randomly saw that on Twitter. Anybody knows what this means?
I just randomly saw that on Twitter. Anybody knows what this means?
That corridor and the hanger bay do have red lights, but it's hard to correlate a specific light to that reflection so it's impossible to know. If it was a cubic map, it would have red lights for sure because there are red lights everywhere in that ship so as long as we don't successfully see something out of the frame that reflects on the visor, we can't tell for sure. But the ending scene really does make a good case for it using SSR because of the occlusion artifacts.