"Hopefully Scarlett will be the most powerful console than the PS5."
It's hard to take this guy seriously.
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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It's hard to take this guy seriously.
I think it's much more likely that Sony had two development tracks, one aiming for 2019 a bit further ahead and one, a bit behind in the dev cycle, aiming at 2020. At least one of companies we work with (not in the gaming sphere, mind you) has multiple dev tracks for most of their major products up to a certain point, I'd imagine something much bigger, more expensive and, specially, as important as PS is for Sony, must follow a similar path.
And if they had a clear "win" over the scant hard info Cerny gave about the PS5, I'd imagine they'd have used it.
They wouldnt have said 4x faster in this case but 6x faster.
And really they probably would've just said 12 cos, since Sony has confirmed 8. I can't think of any reason not to.
PS3 -> PS4 was 8x in compute IIRC.
For the same jump PS4 -> PS5 they need to hit 11.8 TFLOPS with the new consoles.
That said, Scarlett going with 12 CPU cores instead of 8 could definitely explain how PS5 could theoretically be more powerful - more area available to be dedicated to GPU.
I'm inclined to think that'd be overkill, though.
I'm inclined to think that'd be overkill, though.
You can't expect anything less from a former ICXM journalist.
WindowsCentral trying to damage control. What a sight
Anyway with this in mind. With MS and Sony probably being really close to each other in GPU power what do you think will be the main HW differences between the 2?
I think for Sony its gonna be custom SSD and for MS - more custom CPU.
Dunno, 24 threads doing very wide vector maths to traverse data structures and check geometry intersection for RT? Maybe their next OS is very heavyweight and needs 4 dedicated cores at all times :D
4C/8T + 8 gigs of memory just for the OS next gen ;)
I personally doubt that Scarlett has 12 cores too, but all they said was that there were some rumors out there somewhere about it. There could even be some confusion somewhere because there are some additional dedicated cores for RT or something. The bottom line is that we are all sorting through nothing but rumors and such at this point, so calling out a site and folks that are simply fans of one platform and yet have had some legitimate Xbox info in the past as being "biased" is just laughable. We are all biased toward something, and this thread sure is filled with it all over the place of course :)
That immersive OS experience: at your fingertips, any time all the time.
I actually think that you may be right on the Sony SSD vs. Microsoft CPU thing. I personally would be more in favor of CPU customization on the Xbox side as long as the use of SSD in general on the Xbox side gives the expected dramatic load time differences anyway. I can live with a slight difference in those areas in favor of better processing to maintain frame rate (Spencer mentions this repeatedly when discussing Scarlett) and deal with AI and physics etc.
Yes, they are laughable. Asher Madan is a former ICXM journalist ( that site is dead for 2 years now ). I remember that ICXM also wrote articles about infos from MrXmedia. They can't be reliable in anything.
Do you also find it amazing Reiner tweeted that half an hour after Scarlett was introduced in video? Dial down your hate boner.
So in what world does it make sense to flat out float lies about additional power on the Xbox side as a way to combat the PS5 being actually more powerful if you were to believe that tweet and that Xbox believes it themselves? Note that I doubt strongly any 12 core thing, just saying that strategy would be moronic to say the least.
If Scarlett had 12C, they would have claimed 6x CPU.
Edit: Keanu woah dot jpeg
Intel hires chief architect of Xbox One
Edit: Keanu woah dot jpeg
Intel hires chief architect of Xbox One
Not really, he specified that he heard that before the conference. If this rumor he's talking about had any weight to begin with we'd have heard it here by our "insiders" or from sams/warren.
And the Scarlett reveal video was literally just a video version of Cerny's article.
And Reiner didn't hope that one console was stronger than the other like this guy did.
I don't disagree with you ... but were you around on NeoGaf last console launch when MS repeatedly exaggerated/mislead in the forums .. just sayin.
Interesting. I guess the Scarlett SoC design really is locked down then!?
They were so fast to react to that ps5 soft reveal. And now they are so silent
Yeah. Something like that. I think that more stable framerate is better than faster loading too. MS and AMD got some CPU partnership going if im remembering correctly so it may be the case here
Yes, if you're MS it would be moronic, but from basically a fan site? Its par for the course. You were not around in the misterXmedia heyday were you?...not to mention we had actual MS employees on Gaf talking craziness about power gaps, and DirectX, and ridiculous spin.
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The SoC absolutely has to be locked down by now for both, as Phil Spencer said last night that the silicon gets locked down first. It would be clocks and such that they can mess with at this point.
Yep, Microsoft and AMD said on stage together at Computex that they got together in Redmond 2 years ago to develop the next generation of Ryzen CPUs together. So I do think that is likely where the Xbox "special sauce" ends up being focused the most.
Yeah, MS has a habit of muddying the waters.
Vide the "4x the processing power" that we now know (kinda sorta) is only about the CPU (or cobbled from a bunch of stats, according to a different source). Make big, ambiguous claim in a very big and visible venue, clarify through smaller, less visible channels. Create rumors and/or let them run wild.
along with the second GPU that they are waiting to activate with a firmware update to really stick it to the Sony Ponies by making them think the Xbox is weaker than it is?...
I'm not saying you are spreading rumors like this, but that is the type of stuff that was being thrown around back at the launch of this current gen by xbox fans talking about "secret sauce." So as a suggestion, while speculation based in REALITY is great, and makes for good conversation and debate on forums, its very easy to find yourself going off the rails.
Got to say it is a bit scary how much top talent Intel have nabbed in the last couple of years. Everyone else feeding on scraps.
Right. I've been saying it forever but most think one company can release some specs and the other can just go back and up their specs or have a second 'pill' they can respond with.
Mark Cerny himself said specs are for the most part locked 2 years from release. I guess/assume just tweaks can be done if manufacturing goes well enough.
Even PS5's rumoured 1 year delay wouldn't be near enough time to completely redo the SoC (basically meaning the whole console). I would more believe a 2019 release was a Sony ruse and they were always going to be 2020 than a delay at this point!
I won't say that it is a ruse more like they have multiple plans.
The new system planing start as soon as the old one is out and there many factors that go into it .
Like tech , how much the PS4 was selling , part prices etc etc .
People can watch the clip starting at the 36:38 mark of this to hear for themselves if they want, but I think that it is very reasonable to think that Microsoft is in a position to go all in on CPU customization on Scarlett using the Ryzen Zen 2 cores.
Vega 64 often runs below its advertised clocks so it isn't actualy 12.6 Tflops.
Also Vega 64 performance scales badly with tflops so it has worse performance/tflop than Vega 56. A Vega 56 & Vega 64 with the same clocks perform almost the same despite the difference in CUs for example.
Matt has stated that 2019 was in the plans but changed at some point. Kinda corroborated by how wonky and uneven Sony's event and release schedule have been these last years, almost like they were planning something else.
It would make sense to explore and develop a few scenarios and finally double down on one, depending on market conditions and what competitors are doing. Sure, its an investment, but I don't believe that Sony (or MS or Nintendo for that matter) put everything on one horse from the start.
Depends on what you mean by "completely". If you're just changing some number of units while the rest of the arch stays the same - same cores, same GPU arch, same IF interconnect, same production process, etc. - then a one year delay is quite enough to rebuild the SoC. You're locked out of any changes about 9-12 months prior to production ramp as this is the time needed for chip going from tape out to the factory through all the testing and metal spins.
Well to be fair, Scorpio is a customized AMD CPU that we found out later was basically a higher clocked Jaguar CPU. What is AMD's "latest" Zen 2 CPU? Because that is what was stated in Scarlett video.
Makes sense. I remember some insider (Benji maybe) told that Sony moved the release date because of software and ps4 being even more successful that they imagined. Am I remembering correctly?
I'm pretty sure all hw manufactures do this. I don't think they ever actually have a singular spec until late into the process, but for much of it they have several options that are viable based on if they want to commit to particular price points, want to launch in a particular timeframe, or options the can change if a supplier isn't able to come through for whatever reason.
The probably do have a "preferred" option, or core set of features they prioritise though.
Edit: pretty much agreeing with what Carn is saying above.
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Yeah,as we can see now Navi (maybe even Zen2) was not ready for 2019 new console.Plus probably new games/services etc.
Both Sony and Microsoft will no doubt have customization in their SoC which includes the Ryzen Zen 2 CPU cores. My only point is that there is public on record words by both Microsoft and AMD on Ryzen development work together that likely positions Microsoft very well to do some very interesting custom work in their SoC for Scarlett.
Clock friendly or overclock friendly? 5700 base clocks are already well above Polaris, cards navi is replacing. So her claim holds true
Yes.
We're not getting that in a console. That's a full blown desktop card. As with previous gens, we'll get a slightly cut down version.
How do chiplets work in an APU package? 12 cores = 2 chiplets=2x die space, right?
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