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What do you think could be the memory setup of your preferred console, or one of the new consoles?

  • GDDR6

    Votes: 566 41.0%
  • GDDR6 + DDR4

    Votes: 540 39.2%
  • HBM2

    Votes: 53 3.8%
  • HBM2 + DDR4

    Votes: 220 16.0%

  • Total voters
    1,379
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Oct 27, 2017
7,135
Somewhere South
I am beginning to have this feeling that AMD is giving both Sony and MS the exact same chip. And the differences will come down t how each company clocks it (aka cools it), amount of RAM, SSD solution....etc.

Given the very same limited set of Lego they have to work with, and very well-defined goals (release date, price, value, power envelope, thermals, etc) , there isn't really much they can do. Barring some concessions to account for some kind of specific focus (e.g. if one of them decides they need to have a 512bit memory interface because reasons, for instance), they'll look very similar. Very, very similar.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
Yeah I mean the only way this isnt the case is if sony/Ms contributed to the IP of the chip itself.
Exactly, a lot of people are looking at the PS4pro and the XB1X as some sort of metric on how "extensive" these customizations can be. But I have this feeling it's just not like that. AMD will get some feedback from both sony and MS no doubt, but as it stands they will make a "console" APU in the very same way they make their CPUs and GPUs and license/sell that out to the applicable parties. Just that in this case the "applicable parties" are sony and MS.

I just don't see AMD making two completely different chips for either company now. Like it makes zero sense why they would do that. Especially when both consoles are releasing within a month of each other.
Given the very same limited set of Lego they have to work with, and very well-defined goals (release date, price, value, power envelope, thermals, etc) , there isn't really much they can do. Barring some concessions to account for some kind of specific focus (e.g. if one of them decides they need to have a 512bit memory interface because reasons, for instance), they'll look very similar. Very, very similar.

Yup. Like the way I see it now, both Sony and MS gets a blueprint of the exact same finalized chip. You can no doubt add things to that chip if you insist and if it's possible. But it will cost you something else that's already on that chip.
 

androvsky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,502
I like this "same APU" mood, let's go with this for a while. Until the Cell 2 gets discovered (on the Xbox) anyway.
 

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,279
Both consoles being the same hardware with different clocks and customizations that won't amount to dick outside of 1st party games is the obvious outcome here. I've been waiting on the thread to stop fantasizing about 20% performance deltas and come to that realization.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
Ok so the leak is a 20k combined score with an apu that I doubt is hitting even 4ghz CPU side. That's still extremely impressive and would correlate to at least a 25k graphics score. So between a 2070 and 2080, potentially even north of a 2080 If the CPU is only clocked at sub 3.5ghz.

And given we are going to see a lot of 4k stuff this is actually good. You're gpu bottlenecked anyway at this point if there's a ryzen 2 in there at almost any clock on the ryzen side.
i have a rtx2080 that i have no overclocked, and an i7-8700 at 3.2 ghz. its a 6 core 12 thread cpu but it should come close to the zen 2. downloading 3d marks now to do the test. will report back.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,861
Yeah, it is assuming they go for GT Sport 2 or transfer everything they already have into a GT7.

If they start from scratch again, RIP.
Didn't they mention at some point that the car models they use are so highly detailed that they can be used in future games? Case in point, the 8K 120fps demos they've had out in public.
 

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,279
Didn't they mention at some point that the car models they use are so highly detailed that they can be used in future games? Case in point, the 8K 120fps demos they've had out in public.
They said that with the high end PS3 car models and ended up starting from scratch anyway. I won't believe GT makes launch window until the game is my hands SSD.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,145
Didn't they mention at some point that the car models they use are so highly detailed that they can be used in future games? Case in point, the 8K 120fps demos they've had out in public.

They said the same thing about GT5 and the reason why it took so long to release. Those models were "future proofed" only to be scrapped just a couple games later. The surprising thing is they're outsourcing modeling, some of it at least. I guess Kaz must be a bit more laxed about his perfectionist ways these days.

That 8k demo was supposedly ran through several ps4 pros daisy chained together.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
You want to run just the regular vanilla firestrike FYI which is free.
lol i wish i read this earlier. had to buy 3d marks for $5 but thats alright.

IntYsjs.png


21.5k. even if the gonzolo is 20.5k, we are in very good shape.
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,065
Texture quality, draw distance, resolution, environmental density, poly-county, etc...aren't opinion based.
On the internet, the bolded are very much opinion based.
Resolution used to be also, until pixel counting became a thing. Though we're a couple of years away from those methods becoming obsolete - somehow I doubt that'll stop people from arguing about resolution perception though...
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
so this begs the question. is the gonzolo really an 8 tflops gpu?

the 9.5 tflops 5700xt only matches the rtx 2700 in one game. how can an 8 tflops rdna gpu almost match a factory rtx 2080? i think 12 rdna tflops is back on the table.

I would say no (of course assuming this FS score is real at all). We're in at least 10tf rdna territory.

I think we're safely looking at basically Radeon 7 performance. That's pretty sweet. And that makes sense honestly for any apu with more than 40cus. I think a 44cu rdna chip clocked at 1500 base and and 1800 boost would basically hit that target.

At 4k AMD does tend to stretch it's legs a bit. R7 is pretty much right there with a 2080 at 4k but is noticeably behind at 1080 or 1440p. So in more CPU bound scenarios for whatever reason (drivers I guess) AMD tends to lag a little but in 4k pure gpu grunt helps them catch up in a gpu bound scenario.
 
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AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
I would say no (of course assuming this FS score is real at all). We're in at least 10tf rdna territory.

I think we're safely looking at basically Radeon 7 performance. That's pretty sweet. And that makes sense honestly for any apu with more than 40cus. I think a 44cu rdna chip clocked at 1500 base and and 1800 boost would basically hit that target.
Radeon 7 is 14 tflops. thats all ive always wanted. ever since i was a little boy.

it will be interesting to see the firestrike benchmarks for the 5700xt when compared to the rtx 2070. ive seen 2070 and i7 -8700 benchmarks range from 16,000-21,000 so people have been overclocking the hell out of the card and the cpu to get to 21k. i wouldnt be surprised if the factory 5700xt sits in the 16,000 range if it indeed is on par with the 2070 as the strange brigade demo shows. which would confirm a 48-56 cu navi gpu in gonzolo imo.

if the 5700xt's low range is at 2,000 then we can assume a 40 cu gonzolo i guess.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
Radeon 7 is 14 tflops. thats all ive always wanted. ever since i was a little boy.

it will be interesting to see the firestrike benchmarks for the 5700xt when compared to the rtx 2070. ive seen 2070 and i7 -8700 benchmarks range from 16,000-21,000 so people have been overclocking the hell out of the card and the cpu to get to 21k. i wouldnt be surprised if the factory 5700xt sits in the 16,000 range if it indeed is on par with the 2070 as the strange brigade demo shows. which would confirm a 48-56 cu navi gpu in gonzolo imo.

if the 5700xt's low range is at 2,000 then we can assume a 40 cu gonzolo i guess.

I just posted my ocd 2070 and 8700k FS. Just under 22k. Like on this page or page before.


I can push the 8700k to 5.1 but it requires 1.4 voltage, just not worth it vs under 1.3 for 4.9.

I can also push the 2070 to 16500mhz memory without issue but it's kind of a mental barrier that it shouldnt go above 16000mhz lol.

It's like the opposite of wanting my 8700k to be at at least 5.0ghz but it just isn't worth the voltage lol.
 
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Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
20,360
Either way that score is basically a top 5% of all 3dmark PC scores. That's impressive. That is objectively high end PC hardware as of right now. It's fine if Nvidia drops a $600 3070 that outperforms these consoles by a fair margin. That's expected.

Honestly if anyone is to blame for consoles not being "cutting edge" it's Nvidia. Their R&D is nuts off the charts and no one can come up with anything better than they put out every year.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
I just posted my ocd 2070 and 8700k FS. Just under 22k. Like on this page or page before.


I can push the 8700k to 5.1 but it requires 1.4 voltage, just not worth it vs under 1.3 for 4.9.

I can also push the 2070 to 16500mhz memory without issue but it's kind of a mental barrier that it shouldnt go above 16000mhz lol.

It's like the opposite of wanting my 8700k to be at at least 5.0ghz but it just isn't worth the voltage lol.
thats crazy. i almost never overclock my gpu or cpu. i still have a bad experience from overclocking my 2003 pc i built for half life 2. that thing degraded within a few years. my gtx 570 has lasted almost 9 years now because i never overclocked it or the cpu.

im very tempted to overclock using afterburner. all the videos show its pretty safe, but im fine with turning down the graphics to high instead of ultra. i can barely even tell the difference.

lastly, im pretty sure AMD was using the base clocks on the rtx 2070 to do the strange brigade comparison. so 16k fire strike score with an i7 8700 is what we should look at when comparing the gonzolo apu to it.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
20,360
thats crazy. i almost never overclock my gpu or cpu. i still have a bad experience from overclocking my 2003 pc i built for half life 2. that thing degraded within a few years. my gtx 570 has lasted almost 9 years now because i never overclocked it or the cpu.

im very tempted to overclock using afterburner. all the videos show its pretty safe, but im fine with turning down the graphics to high instead of ultra. i can barely even tell the difference.

lastly, im pretty sure AMD was using the base clocks on the rtx 2070 to do the strange brigade comparison. so 16k fire strike score with an i7 8700 is what we should look at when comparing the gonzolo apu to it.

I think a lot has changed since 2003. Stock my 8700k on auto voltage was pulling more volts than at 4.9ghz. GPUs I've been ocing with zero issues since the 6800 GT. They are built to just crash the driver if you push them too much. Only time I've run into issues is flashing a bios onto the wrong pcb. A software oc is perfectly safe and a bios OC is too as long as you have a bios switch. Like if you just remove the power limits on a Vega 56 you can match a 2070. You'd just be pulling 500w for just the card lol.
 

Rylen

Member
Feb 5, 2019
462
so this begs the question. is the gonzolo really an 8 tflops gpu?

the 9.5 tflops 5700xt only matches the rtx 2700 in one game. how can an 8 tflops rdna gpu almost match a factory rtx 2080? i think 12 rdna tflops is back on the table.

I'm settling at 11 TFlops

Which is basically 1080 Ti performance, and RDNA matches Pascal Performance per TFLOP.

11 TFLOP RDNA = 11 TFLOP Pascal
 

eathdemon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,644
I'm settling at 11 TFlops

Which is basically 1080 Ti performance, and RDNA matches Pascal Performance per TFLOP.

11 TFLOP RDNA = 11 TFLOP Pascal
still think 8 to 10 tfps is more likely, but also that comparison is weak. while it will make for a good console cip, to equal pascail amd need a full node jump over nvidia.
 

ElNerdo

Member
Oct 22, 2018
2,220
All I know is:
Even if next gen consoles just get close to 1080/2070 performance, games should look and perform amazingly, and still look better than the top graphical powerhouse titles of this gen.
 

Deleted member 17092

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Oct 27, 2017
20,360
still think 8 to 10 tfps is more likely, but also that comparison is weak. while it will make for a good console cip, to equal pascail amd need a full node jump over nvidia.

I mean that's basically what the 5700xt is if it had 4 more cus. This is midsized Navi catching midsized 2070 (almost). By that logic a 64 cu Navi should at least be between a 2080 and 2090 ti. Yeah they are behind but I'm actually surprised they are even this close when you look at just pure r&d budgets. Honestly same thing with the Vega 64 and r7. Yeah they are behind and late a bit but they are at least relatively close if you exclude NV 80 ti series.
 

eathdemon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,644
I mean that's basically what the 5700xt is if it had 4 more cus. This is midsized Navi catching midsized 2070 (almost). By that logic a 64 cu Navi should at least be between a 2080 and 2090 ti. Yeah they are behind but I'm actually surprised they are even this close when you look at just pure r&d budgets. Honestly same thing with the Vega 64 and r7. Yeah they are behind and late a bit but they are at least relatively close if you exclude NV 80 ti series.
also you need to excusde rt since navi doesnt have it, though seems like ms/sony is adding it after the fact.
just as a off topic thing, could totally see nvidia, by choice, lower tradition gpu performance on future cards to add more rt cores. I tend to think we are well beyond diminishing returns point for non rt based rendering.
 

Deleted member 17092

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Oct 27, 2017
20,360
also you need to excusde rt since navi doesnt have it, though seems like ms/sony is adding it after the fact.
just as a off topic thing, could totally see nvidia, by choice, lower tradition gpu performance on future cards to add more rt cores. I tend to think we are well beyond diminishing returns point for non rt based rendering.

Eh, no, more cus and more shaders are still needed for just 4k rendering, let alone 8k.

Diminishing returns sure in the sense you need huge dies to improve 4k and 8k performance, but you also need huge dies for RT hardware. Honestly I'd rather they focus on 4k60+ performance before worrying about RT
 

eathdemon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,644
Eh, no, more cus and more shaders are still needed for just 4k rendering, let alone 8k.

Diminishing returns sure in the sense you need huge dies to improve 4k and 8k performance, but you also need huge dies for RT hardware. Honestly I'd rather they focus on 4k60+ performance before worrying about RT
I rather take 1080p and good rt, over 4k without tbh. keep in mind thew mind blowing stuff we have seen for it is with 1 rt core, what happends when nvidia dicides to put several on a chip.
 

terawatt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
336
thats crazy. i almost never overclock my gpu or cpu. i still have a bad experience from overclocking my 2003 pc i built for half life 2. that thing degraded within a few years. my gtx 570 has lasted almost 9 years now because i never overclocked it or the cpu.

im very tempted to overclock using afterburner. all the videos show its pretty safe, but im fine with turning down the graphics to high instead of ultra. i can barely even tell the difference.

lastly, im pretty sure AMD was using the base clocks on the rtx 2070 to do the strange brigade comparison. so 16k fire strike score with an i7 8700 is what we should look at when comparing the gonzolo apu to it.

Overclocking is really safe and easy these days, alot of safeguards on the cards, basically you're leaving free performance on the table if you don't. Just use the OC scanner tool in afterburner, it does everything for you.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,038
PS4 is still at 299 though. A super slim with a 50 price drop will make things smoother for Sony until next-gen arrives.

I was surprised when I saw them forecasting 16m for this FY (seems high, this was their forecast for last year before the revisions), I'm curious to see how much they'll ship this first quarter.

Sony can probably weather things a little better than MS who have already used up sales and discounts a lot so the customers may have already factored that in.

But a $50 cut to $250 plus 25% tariffs lands you at a $299 console so that may not help

I do think Sony should do a super slim though. They will have a couple of years in primary markets at lower volumes to justify the investment, and it potentially opens up other markets too
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,845
Ok so the leak is a 20k combined score with an apu that I doubt is hitting even 4ghz CPU side. That's still extremely impressive and would correlate to at least a 25k graphics score. So between a 2070 and 2080, potentially even north of a 2080 If the CPU is only clocked at sub 3.5ghz.

And given we are going to see a lot of 4k stuff this is actually good. You're gpu bottlenecked anyway at this point if there's a ryzen 2 in there at almost any clock on the ryzen side.
If it's really gonzalo score we know the CPU clocks are max 3.2 ghz
 

Liabe Brave

Professionally Enhanced
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,672
so this begs the question. is the gonzolo really an 8 tflops gpu?

the 9.5 tflops 5700xt only matches the rtx 2070 in one game. how can an 8 tflops rdna gpu almost match a factory rtx 2080?
You've got a couple things wrong here, and it's throwing off your analysis. First, the 5700XT is not a 9.5 TF design, not when comparing to consoles or Nvidia. AMD "boost clock" is almost never hit, which is why they've disclosed "game clock" as well. That's the speed the GPU will actually sustain (i.e. more akin to how other products are calculated). So the 5700XT is actually a flat 9TF for comparison purposes.

Second, those 9 TF don't match the RTX 2070 in only one game. They exceed it in several (most?), at least per AMD.

amd_radeon_5700_016.jpg


So 5700XT is slightly lower TF than you say, and its results are notably better. This makes the claimed Gonzalo benchmark much less surprising. (Especially since that chip is supposedly running at marginally higher clock than the 5700XT.)

Of course, real-world results might end up less powerful than the scattered and uncalibrated benchmarks we have right now.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
so this begs the question. is the gonzolo really an 8 tflops gpu?

the 9.5 tflops 5700xt only matches the rtx 2700 in one game. how can an 8 tflops rdna gpu almost match a factory rtx 2080? i think 12 rdna tflops is back on the table.


Because benchmarks differs. As people already said, VEGA64 performs really well in that benchmark too... While it doesn't perform as well in game.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,657
I do think Sony should do a super slim though. They will have a couple of years in primary markets at lower volumes to justify the investment, and it potentially opens up other markets too

Yeah, they'll definitely do a super slim (or "PS four" for those of us who remember...). They'll want to be able to sell the PS4 for less than $299, which means reducing the build cost. I hope you like top-loading drives!

Plus, yeah, developing markets are a big opportunity for them too. The PS4 isn't done.

(No, but seriously, my dream is a PS4 built into an exact replica PS1 case for the 25th anniversary. Make it happen, Sony!)
 

RevengeTaken

Banned
Aug 12, 2018
1,711
1080TI level of performance combining with 8core Zen2 and super fast memory + SSD would pretty amazing. you've no idea how good sony's FPs gonna look visually.
 

sncvsrtoip

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
2,773
Calm down, vega64 on haswell(quite old cpu) 8 core 4.2ghz got 19.2k and 5700xt is allegedly 1.14x faster. This gonzalo chip looks on pair with 5700xt (~9tf navi).
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,828
Australia
Yeah, they'll definitely do a super slim (or "PS four" for those of us who remember...). They'll want to be able to sell the PS4 for less than $299, which means reducing the build cost. I hope you like top-loading drives!

Plus, yeah, developing markets are a big opportunity for them too. The PS4 isn't done.

(No, but seriously, my dream is a PS4 built into an exact replica PS1 case for the 25th anniversary. Make it happen, Sony!)

I wonder if it would actually be cheaper for them to go with 500GB of flash memory for the super slim, to really cut down the size. Mostly just because of all the flash they'll be buying anyway for PS5 if the SSD is on the board.
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
Ps5/nextbox performing similar to a 2070, with some additional ground being gained as the generation goes on is probably a realistic expectation
 

BGA

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,570
I could see Microsoft and Sony delaying their Nextgen systems to 2021 due ro tariffs.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,911
The Netherlands
And I'm sure if you asked the same question about gaming subscription services, and a predominantly digital future 10 years ago you would have been met with similar results. Yet here we are. Conveniency and cost-of-entry rule all.

Sure, in ten years. Next-gen is supposed to hit next year. To be honest, it wouldnt surprise me if Sony will, relatively, focus less on 'play anywhere'. They have their numbers.
 
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