Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

modiz · Jul 11, 2019

sncvsrtoip said:
https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19823729
ryzen 5 3600 6c 3600mhz(no boost) with 5700xt

I remember that when i saw CPU scores for stock 3600 and boosted 3700X i used that to find the score of a 3.2Ghz 3700X (i assumed clock scales linearly with score and core count maybe less so, and that pointed to 3.2ghz 3700X basically being a match in score to 3.6ghz 3600 that is used here.
Those who hoping for 10TF may like this result :)
Ill stick with my 9.2TF prediction though

PLASTICA-MAN · Jul 11, 2019

Metalane said:
This video could almost be used as a next gen tech showcase:

https://youtu.be/KZ9mb3Jylb0

Although it is exclusively UE4.

msia2k75 said:
It's an animated film....

It's a movie and we don't come compare CGIs and movies to games. If anything you want to get an idea is the others tech demos except that movie.

PLASTICA-MAN · Jul 12, 2019

AegonSnake said:
Yes. See below.

So thats a 40 CU 1.93 ghz 9.88 tflops GPU scoring a 26.3k score.

My RTX 2080 and i7-8700 3.2 ghz gave me a 26.5k score. (core clock was 1.5 ghz but i saw it stay in the 1.9 ghz range pretty much the entire going up to 2.05 ghz at times.

I will be ok with a 10 tflops RDNA gpu in this case.

Metalane said:
Wow, that would be amazing! Your prediction for 12.9 TFLOPS would probably be like a 2080 TI.

Anyway if anything for next-gen consoles especially PS5 (if it will end up being the most powerful), then it will be at least as powerful as the 5700XT if not better because of this:

Ok, don't take this as an authentic source for an approximation of next-gen but still a RX 5700 is not performing well at all in current-gen games which will be miles behind next-gen. The GPU is performing horrendously in Metro Exodus in 4K max settings (without RT ofc) just in 15 FPS, Shadow Of War and even FORTNITE!!!.
I know optimisations for consoles and low level API but still the GPU that will be on next-gen consoles (at least the PS5) will be better than the RX 5700 XT if not much better considering the leaks, the RT addition, the tests and the promises.

Metalane · Jul 12, 2019

PLASTICA-MAN said:
It's a movie and we don't come compare CGIs and movies to games. If anything you want to get an idea is the others tech demos except that movie.

Is this referring to Troll short film?

Metalane · Jul 12, 2019

PLASTICA-MAN said:
Anyway if anything for next-gen consoles especially PS5 (if it will end up being the most powerful), then it will be at least as powerful as the 5700XT if not better because of this:

Ok, don't take this as an authentic source for an approximation of next-gen but still a RX 5700 is not performing well at all in current-gen games which will be miles behind next-gen. The GPU is performing horrendously in Metro Exodus in 4K max settings (without RT ofc) just in 15 FPS, Shadow Of War and even FORTNITE!!!.
I know optimisations for consoles and low level API but still the GPU that will be on next-gen consoles (at least the PS5) will be better than the RX 5700 XT if not much better considering the leaks, the RT addition, the tests and the promises.

Ya, 2080 performance (even higher with optimization) is my guess.

PLASTICA-MAN · Jul 12, 2019

Metalane said:
Is this referring to Troll short film?

Yes. Don't take that as an idea for next-gen, there are many assets so high especially dynamic GI that will be impossible to do in realtime dynamic GI will be doable next-gen but to a certain extent). We may still be surprised by some tech wizards next-gen though.

Metalane · Jul 12, 2019

PLASTICA-MAN said:
Yes. Don't take that as an idea for next-gen, there are many assets so high especially dynamic GI that will be impossible to do in realtime.. We may still be surprised by some tech wizards next-gen though.

Ya, I suppose. There were definitely a few demos in that video that should be possible.

Metalane · Jul 12, 2019

PLASTICA-MAN said:
Yes. Don't take that as an idea for next-gen, there are many assets so high especially dynamic GI that will be impossible to do in realtime dynamic GI will be doable next-gen but to a certain extent). We may still be surprised by some tech wizards next-gen though.

The only two that would be impossible are the Troll demo and the Star Wars demo. This is because they rely heavily on ray tracing. I'm still convinced that even without ray tracing we'll get what we consider to be a "generational leap".

gundamkyoukai · Jul 12, 2019

Metalane said:
Ya, I suppose. There were definitely a few demos in that video that should be possible.

Yep even if they used some tricks and it not 100% the same .
Think next gen going shock people how good it going to look.

modiz · Jul 12, 2019

PLASTICA-MAN said:
Anyway if anything for next-gen consoles especially PS5 (if it will end up being the most powerful), then it will be at least as powerful as the 5700XT if not better because of this:

Ok, don't take this as an authentic source for an approximation of next-gen but still a RX 5700 is not performing well at all in current-gen games which will be miles behind next-gen. The GPU is performing horrendously in Metro Exodus in 4K max settings (without RT ofc) just in 15 FPS, Shadow Of War and even FORTNITE!!!.
I know optimisations for consoles and low level API but still the GPU that will be on next-gen consoles (at least the PS5) will be better than the RX 5700 XT if not much better considering the leaks, the RT addition, the tests and the promises.

i wish more people would do this. i found that video very interesting (and i think it actually performed decently enough, better than i expected for a 7.5TF GPU, on par with a vega 64).
i want to see someone with a 3.2Ghz 3700X and RX 5700XT trying to find the correct GPU clock speed to get >20k firestrike score.

Metalane · Jul 12, 2019

gundamkyoukai said:
Yep even if they used some tricks and it not 100% the same .
Think next gen going shock people how good it going to look.

Absolutely. Unfortunately the ray tracing implementation in next gen consoles is still a mystery. I hope it's better than a lot of us expect.

SharpX68K · Jul 12, 2019

Metalane said:
Absolutely. Unfortunately the ray tracing implementation in next gen consoles is still a mystery. I hope it's better than a lot of us expect.

My thoughts exactly, and if we get mid-gen upgrades in 2023/2024, I'd imagine there'd be a major emphasis on improved hw RT.

morrigan8bit · Jul 12, 2019

Metalane said:
Absolutely. Unfortunately the ray tracing implementation in next gen consoles is still a mystery. I hope it's better than a lot of us expect.

As much as I am excited about "daying one-ing" both the PS5 and Scarlett I remain cautious about the RT capabilities of both machines.

Melchiah · Jul 12, 2019

Metalane said:
The PS4 and XB1 GPU's were GCN based. The next gen consoles are part of a new architecture known as RDNA. So from what I understand the RDNA arch has a 1.25-1.4x performance multiplier over GCN. An example would be a 10 RDNA TFLOP card having equal performance to a 12.5-14 TFLOP GCN card. Not that it matters much because I've recently learnt that TFLOPS is a pretty useless way of comparing performance.

Yes, that's what I meant. I thought you meant something else. It looks like were getting 12-14 GCN teraflop equivalent GPU, not RDNA. That's what me and some others hoped for back in the day. Whether the TF figure actually matters or not. ;)

Anyways, with that, a huge CPU improvement, and SSD, I can't even begin to imagine how the games will look next gen. Particularly first party titles, which will push the hardware more. I can't wait to see what a studio like Guerrilla will bring to the table. I'm expecting to be at least as amazed as I was when I saw Killzone: Shadow Fall.

sncvsrtoip · Jul 12, 2019

PLASTICA-MAN said:
Anyway if anything for next-gen consoles especially PS5 (if it will end up being the most powerful), then it will be at least as powerful as the 5700XT if not better because of this:

Ok, don't take this as an authentic source for an approximation of next-gen but still a RX 5700 is not performing well at all in current-gen games which will be miles behind next-gen. The GPU is performing horrendously in Metro Exodus in 4K max settings (without RT ofc) just in 15 FPS, Shadow Of War and even FORTNITE!!!.
I know optimisations for consoles and low level API but still the GPU that will be on next-gen consoles (at least the PS5) will be better than the RX 5700 XT if not much better considering the leaks, the RT addition, the tests and the promises.

Some strange results there, maybe some driver problems with heavy underclocked cpu, the low level console api call will not have it;)

Tovarisc · Jul 12, 2019

Metalane said:
It's all just speculation!

Speculation or wet dreams?

modiz · Jul 12, 2019

i finally checked out the AMD image sharpening tech, this looks really impressive for virtually no performance cost, i can see developers using this a lot next gen.

sncvsrtoip · Jul 12, 2019

modiz said:
i finally checked out the AMD image sharpening tech, this looks really impressive for virtually no performance cost, i can see developers using this a lot next gen.

Yes, and without wasting transistors for tensor cores with better end result ;)

Doctor Avatar · Jul 12, 2019

modiz said:
i finally checked out the AMD image sharpening tech, this looks really impressive for virtually no performance cost, i can see developers using this a lot next gen.

Is it different than checker boarding?

And can it be combined with checker boarding/temporal reconstruction for an even close approximation of native 4K?

BreakAtmo · Jul 12, 2019

modiz said:
i finally checked out the AMD image sharpening tech, this looks really impressive for virtually no performance cost, i can see developers using this a lot next gen.

sncvsrtoip said:
Yes, and without wasting transistors for tensor cores with better end result ;)

Yeah, it's better than DLSS (although the comparison is a little more complex than it looks). I really want to know how the Sharpening would look on consoles combined with resolution reconstruction. It would also be fantastic for enhancing older games even further - imagine if we got 4K 60fps patches for PS4 games, then got this tech on top of it.

thuway · Jul 12, 2019

I was just reading the Wired Cerny article again. It's crazy how the entire thing reads like the Project Scarlet announcement video.

PS5 just came out good in it.

modiz · Jul 12, 2019

Doctor Avatar said:
Is it different than checker boarding?

And can it be combined with checker boarding/temporal reconstruction for an even close approximation of native 4K?

Its not checkerboarding at all, its just after upscaling to 4k performs sharpening based off contrast and it looks surprisingly close to native 4k.
I have no idea whether it could be combined with checkerboard, but technically i dont see why not, its just a filter in the end, but isn't checkerboard already sharpening the image anyway?

BreakAtmo · Jul 12, 2019

modiz said:
Its not checkerboarding at all, its just after upscaling to 4k performs sharpening based off contrast and it looks surprisingly close to native 4k.

It also works on native 4K!

I have no idea whether it could be combined with checkerboard, but technically i dont see why not, its just a filter in the end, but isn't checkerboard already sharpening the image anyway?

I see no reason why they couldn't be combined, but I was concerned the two techniques might not play well together.

I'd like to see it used on R6: Siege, though I'm not sure if the checkerboard on that game is particularly good.

modiz · Jul 12, 2019

BreakAtmo said:
It also works on native 4K!

I see no reason why they couldn't be combined, but I was concerned the two techniques might not play well together.

I'd like to see it used on R6: Siege, though I'm not sure if the checkerboard on that game is particularly good.

I can see RIS working very well with insomniac's temporal injection

thuway · Jul 12, 2019

anexanhume said:
Tangential: LG is doubling their large panel OLED capacity. Gimme that sub $2K 65" panel MSRP.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1463...d-output?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

FUCK LG. the real story is OLED Capacity will be times 10 by 2024.

By next year we will have the first Printed OLED panels. And TCL should be among the first alongside Japan Display.

Cheaper, more competition, more reliable, and faster. LG display won't have a stranglehold on the market leading to cheaper prices for everyone.

That means the 88 inch oled for sub 5k in a wallpaper like format

https://www.techradar.com/amp/news/you-should-wait-until-2020-to-buy-a-cheaper-oled

orava · Jul 12, 2019

Metalane said:
When people mention RT capabilities I always think of this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/bjne11/for_the_people_who_dont_believe_the_next/

How do we know Sony or MS couldn't implement a chip like this?

Nvidia has researched this over decade now and poured billions into it and they just recently got a consumer level product finished. AMD is almost at their level tech-wise but still haven't got a solution out and they aren't going to catch up anytime soon. Even giant like intel would have problems developing one. Expecting sony, ms or someone else like the company in the article to produce magic chip like this is just wishful thinking. It would be just too expensive. They will most likely just stick with what AMD comes up with.

Dictator · Jul 12, 2019

sncvsrtoip said:
Haha exactly, Dictator DF check firestirke 1080p general score with ryzen 7 3700x downclocked to 3.2ghz with 5700 and 5700xt

Rylen said:
yes please do it Dark1x

Also downclock the 5700 XT 10-15% to see how much power that would save.

John does not have the hardware :D Neither do I (yet).
But we will probably do something like this - the reason we did Journey is because I think the game deserves it and because I needed something smaller (the game is just 2 hours long) to do before I hit a small vacation since I am hanging around with my mother :D

anexanhume · Jul 12, 2019

thuway said:
FUCK LG. the real story is OLED Capacity will be times 10 by 2024.

By next year we will have the first Printed OLED panels. And TCL should be among the first alongside Japan Display.

Cheaper, more competition, more reliable, and faster. LG display won't have a stranglehold on the market leading to cheaper prices for everyone.

That means the 88 inch oled for sub 5k in a wallpaper like format

https://www.techradar.com/amp/news/you-should-wait-until-2020-to-buy-a-cheaper-oled

Yeah, fuck LG for popularizing a new display technology and challenging Samsung's dominance at the top-end of the market?

Deleted member 8136 · Jul 12, 2019

anexanhume said:
Yeah, fuck LG for popularizing a new display technology and challenging Samsung's dominance at the top-end of the market?

I don't get it either. They brought the very best display tech to a broader market. That no one (thus far) is able to produce those panels as well is not their fault.

Expy · Jul 12, 2019

anexanhume said:
Yeah, fuck LG for popularizing a new display technology and challenging Samsung's dominance at the top-end of the market?

Seriously.

thuway · Jul 12, 2019

anexanhume said:
Yeah, fuck LG for popularizing a new display technology and challenging Samsung's dominance at the top-end of the market?

Not what I meant. I own two LG's. I'm just saying as a consumer, it's awesome that more players are entering the market and prices will be forced down for everyone.

sncvsrtoip · Jul 12, 2019

Dictator said:
John does not have the hardware :D Neither do I (yet).
But we will probably do something like this - the reason we did Journey is because I think the game deserves it and because I needed something smaller (the game is just 2 hours long) to do before I hit a small vacation since I am hanging around with my mother :D

Good to hear, I think also worth to check 1800mhz 5700 oc in firestrike

sncvsrtoip · Jul 12, 2019

GameStop exec Frank Hamlin "File sizes for games are indeed growing. Just recently, it was reported that Cyberpunk 2077 will be 80 GB on PS4. One of 2018's biggest and most impressive games, Red Dead Redemption 2, is over 100 GB. With the kind of 8K graphics that Project Scarlett and the PS5 can offer, the file size for a game like Red Dead Redemption 2 could balloon to 400 GB, Hamlin estimated." link
8k cofirmed ;d

Deleted member 52190 · Jul 12, 2019

sncvsrtoip said:
GameStop exec Frank Hamlin "File sizes for games are indeed growing. Just recently, it was reported that Cyberpunk 2077 will be 80 GB on PS4. One of 2018's biggest and most impressive games, Red Dead Redemption 2, is over 100 GB. With the kind of 8K graphics that Project Scarlett and the PS5 can offer, the file size for a game like Red Dead Redemption 2 could balloon to 400 GB, Hamlin estimated." link
8k cofirmed ;d

Companys need to start finding new aways of compresing data or the Blue Ray will no longer help peopel with a terrible internet.

BreakAtmo · Jul 12, 2019

sncvsrtoip said:
GameStop exec Frank Hamlin "File sizes for games are indeed growing. Just recently, it was reported that Cyberpunk 2077 will be 80 GB on PS4. One of 2018's biggest and most impressive games, Red Dead Redemption 2, is over 100 GB. With the kind of 8K graphics that Project Scarlett and the PS5 can offer, the file size for a game like Red Dead Redemption 2 could balloon to 400 GB, Hamlin estimated." link
8k cofirmed ;d

Between 8K being nothing more than an output resolution for these consoles, the fact that resolution and file size are unrelated, and the various ways we know file size growth can be held back on the new consoles, this is one of the dumber things I've read in a while.

dgrdsv · Jul 12, 2019

SharpX68K said:
I think the best we could hope for is somewhere in between GTX 1080 and 1080Ti performance.

With raw specs like the 1080 ( 8.8 TF ) and equivalent performance of 1080Ti thanks to RDNA.

I don't want to compare with RTX/Turing GPUs because I don't believe AMD will have comparable raytracing HW, even for Scarlett.

Console GPUs should be comparable to Turing feature wise, with the only exception being their lack of tensor cores and whatever FP16/INT matrix math acceleration Turing may get from them.

Performance of said features is a totally different matter of course but I don't expect it to be as bad as, say, running RT on Pascal via pure compute. So generally it's likely more accurate to compare NG GPUs with Turing than with Pascal.

Miniature Kaiju · Jul 12, 2019

Snakeeee said:
Companys need to start finding new aways of compresing data or the Blue Ray will no longer help peopel with a terrible internet.

There's some interesting research with NN compression: they train a network on the original textures, create a model that can replicate them with some arbitrarily defined fidelity threshold when fed a simple input seed and a very compressible residual that, when merged with the model replica, brings the fidelity up to par with the original texture.

They then ship the model + compressed residuals. Textures are reconstructed on installation. You're obviously trading space for processing time, as this takes quite a bit. The bigger the number of textures you're compressing, the better the compression ratio, as model size doesn't scale linearly like that.

Pheonix · Jul 12, 2019

modiz said:
Its not checkerboarding at all, its just after upscaling to 4k performs sharpening based off contrast and it looks surprisingly close to native 4k.
I have no idea whether it could be combined with checkerboard, but technically i dont see why not, its just a filter in the end, but isn't checkerboard already sharpening the image anyway?

I am beginnin to fel like some sort of next gen prophet lol. Pretty muh everything I said back before we knew anything has been coming true. I honestly do't know how most people missed it considerring it was all just right there fo us to see.

I believe CBR is better than RIS and DLSS. And all are just ways of running faux 4K. CBR still maintains a native 4K buffer. Its basically like rendering a full 4K image in 2 frames instead of one. And I can only imagine that with improved hardware and better AA it will be far better on the PS5 than it was in the PS4pro. I've been saying this non-stop, and while a lot of people just don't want to hear it, the simple truth of the matter is that native 4K is a gluttonous waste of resources for what is in effect minimal IQ gain over a great 1440p image. Sony knows it, Nvidia knows it and now AM is showing that they know it too.

It also ties itself nicely to everything that a GPU actually is. People seem to forget that GPUs are really all about smoke and mirrors. They have found brilliant ways to "simulate" extremely otherwise processor-heavy tasks and reduce their performance hit (bump mapping anyone?) why anyone thinks the actual rendered resolution would b exempt to this is beyond me.

Dictator said:
John does not have the hardware :D Neither do I (yet).
But we will probably do something like this - the reason we did Journey is because I think the game deserves it and because I needed something smaller (the game is just 2 hours long) to do before I hit a small vacation since I am hanging around with my mother :D

es... once again DF coming through to do God's work. Take your time man, don't mind my Journey shaming lol, knowing you guys will at least do this is good enough for me. And pls while you guys are at it, can you address things like the whole GCN vs RDNA TFs thing, and things like DLSS, CBR and RIS and what their implications for next gen consoles ould be?

Blizzje · Jul 12, 2019

The benchmarks for the RX 5700 are looking fantastic, often keeping up or even beating the 2060 super and regular 2070. Is this the baseline we can expect for the PS5 in terms of the card that can be fitted? Or will it likely be downclocked? Would be awesome if this is the minimum we can expect.

More Butter · Jul 12, 2019

Next gen is already looking promising. I think we are going to get a couple of balanced and capable machines. I hope they're both very close in power so we can avoid some of the dick wagging. Obviously some dicks will wag regardless of what happens but maybe more uniform consoles will keep some of the dicks where they belong.

RoboPlato · Jul 12, 2019

Blizzje said:
The benchmarks for the RX 5700 are looking fantastic, often keeping up or even beating the 2060 super and regular 2070. Is this the baseline we can expect for the PS5 in terms of the card that can be fitted? Or will it likely be downclocked? Would be awesome if this is the minimum we can expect.

I think we'll get something between the 5700 and the XT with added raytracing support and a few other key customizations/optimizations. Should be very nice, especially if they have a lot of bandwidth to work with.

dgrdsv · Jul 12, 2019

Pheonix said:
I believe CBR is better than RIS and DLSS.

This is like saying that burgers are better than bunnies and space ships.

Kyoufu · Jul 12, 2019

dgrdsv said:
This is like saying that burgers are better than bunnies and space ships.

Well, they are!

Metalane · Jul 12, 2019

SharpX68K said:
My thoughts exactly, and if we get mid-gen upgrades in 2023/2024, I'd imagine there'd be a major emphasis on improved hw RT.

Exactly! Improved ray tracing at native 4K/120!

Bundy · Jul 12, 2019

dgrdsv said:
This is like saying that burgers are better than bunnies and space ships.

Good burgers? Yes, they are!

Manmademan · Jul 12, 2019

Snakeeee said:
Companys need to start finding new aways of compresing data or the Blue Ray will no longer help peopel with a terrible internet.

Sony has optical media that goes to 3.3 TB. There's just no reason to use it in a console at present.

Sekiro · Jul 12, 2019

Thinking about how the next gen consoles offer performance equal to an RTX 2070 with added console optimisation is mouth watering to picture.

I i'm convinced that next gen will have games that will look as visually amazing as the Unity Heretic demo rendered in checkerboard 4K.

Let's not forget that this demo was running at 1440p@30fps on an RX 5700XT i believe back in the E3 conference, with dynamic resolutions and AMD's new image sharpening technique we could bump that up to cb4K@30fps

Lokimaster · Jul 12, 2019

Metalane said:
This video could almost be used as a next gen tech showcase:

https://youtu.be/KZ9mb3Jylb0

Although it is exclusively UE4.

Lol there is not going to be a video game out here especially from 3rd party devs that look, ANYTHING like that. Not happening.

Metalane · Jul 12, 2019

Melchiah said:
Yes, that's what I meant. I thought you meant something else. It looks like were getting 12-14 GCN teraflop equivalent GPU, not RDNA. That's what me and some others hoped for back in the day. Whether the TF figure actually matters or not. ;)

Anyways, with that, a huge CPU improvement, and SSD, I can't even begin to imagine how the games will look next gen. Particularly first party titles, which will push the hardware more. I can't wait to see what a studio like Guerrilla will bring to the table. I'm expecting to be at least as amazed as I was when I saw Killzone: Shadow Fall.

I was actually just watching the reveal trailer for KZ: Shadowfall last night. I love the chills we get when we see these next gen experiences!

Metalane · Jul 12, 2019

Tovarisc said:
Speculation or wet dreams?

Speculation with a sprinkle of hype!

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

What do you think could be the memory setup of your preferred console, or one of the new consoles?

GDDR6

GDDR6 + DDR4

HBM2

HBM2 + DDR4

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account

Alt Account

Digital Foundry

User requested account closure

Election Thread Watcher

Alt Account