Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air

How much money are you willing to pay for a next generation console?

  • Up to $199

    Votes: 33 1.5%
  • Up to $299

    Votes: 48 2.2%
  • Up to $399

    Votes: 318 14.4%
  • Up to $499

    Votes: 1,060 48.0%
  • Up to $599

    Votes: 449 20.3%
  • Up to $699

    Votes: 100 4.5%
  • I will pay anything!

    Votes: 202 9.1%

  • Total voters
    2,210
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Mecha Meister

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,017




Previous threads:
PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - timing and specifications

PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Post E3 2018

Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA

Official PlayStation 5 Specifications Revealed so far:
  • Zen 2 - 8 Cores 16 Threads - 7nm (Unknown clock-speeds)
  • AMD Radeon NAVI GPU - 7nm (Unknown clock-speeds and core count)
  • Ray tracing support (Hardware-accelerated)
  • 8K Output support
  • SSD (allegedly faster than PC solutions available at the time of publication)
  • PS4 Backwards compatibility
  • Coming Holiday 2020
  • 4K Bluray player
  • 100GB optical disc support for games
  • Having an SSD removes the need for data duplication, this was used to allow Hard Disc Drives to read the data faster. This consumes more disc space than neccessariy. With an SSD, data duplication is no longer needed, so game developers can save space or use it for other things.
  • Devkit design is confirmed to be real, no acknowledgement whether the final console will resemble it.
  • Due to having an SSD, booting and loading times will be faster. World streaming in games will also be faster, and more data can be streamed in.
DualShock 5 Features Revealed so far:
  • Controller Features:
  • Adaptive triggers - offering varying levels of resistance which can be used to express tension when uising weapons, etc.
  • Haptic Feedback (Highly programmable voice-coil actuators)
    Can convey the feel of traversing through different terrain.
    Sand can feel slow and sluggish, while mud slow and soggy. (as mentioned in the Wired Interview).
    The difference between driving on dirt and on a track can also be conveyed.
  • Improved speaker
  • USB Type-C Connector
  • Larger battery capacity
  • Allegedly lighter than the current Xbox controller with batteries in it.
  • The one the used in the second Wired Interview looks like the DualShock 4
Operating System Improvements Revealed so far:
  • Can choose to intall the single player portion of a game, and install the multiplayer later, or install the entire game and delete the portion of the game you want after.
  • Multiplayer game servers will provide information such as joinable activies.
  • Single-player cames will provide information such as the available missions you can play and the rewards you can obtain when you complete them. The user interface will also providing the choices of rewards you will have available to you.
Revealed by Mark Cerny in two Wired Interviews.
First Interview - Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStation
Second Interview - Exclusive: A Deeper Look at the PlayStation 5

Official Xbox Scarlet Specifications Revealed so far:
  • Zen 2 CPU (Unknown clock-speeds, and whether it will have SMT)
  • NAVI GPU (Unknown clock-speeds and core count)
  • GDDR6 Memory: Scarlet is speculated to have around 10 memory chips based on images of a PCB shown in the Project Scarlet reveal video, potentially giving it a 320-bit memory bus, ram capacity could range between 10 and 20GB.
    On the topic of this, in 2016 Microsoft showcased a render of the Xbox One X's board while the system was in development and the number of chips were able to match up with the number of chips the retail system has. Of-course, things may be subject to change so this is somewhat speculation included with officially revealed information.
  • Up to 8K resolution support
  • Up to 120 fps support
  • Ray tracing support - Hardware-accelerated
  • Variable Refresh Rate Support
  • SSD (Can apparently be used as virtual memory)
  • Backwards Compatible
Revealed at E3 2019: Xbox Project Scarlett - E3 2019 - Reveal Trailer

RDNA Architecture:
RDNA Whitepaper

Patents
Becareful with patents, don't take everything you read in a patent to mean that it will be implemented in a company's next product, as some things that companies patent don't always come to fruition.

PS5 - a patent dive into what might be the tech behind Sony's SSD customisations (technical!)
V has come to (PS5 dev kit design?)
Possible PSVR2 patents emerge (inside-out tracking, wireless)

This patent has been discovered under YUSUHIRO OOTOR's name, showcasing a design for an electronic device which is rumoured to be the PlayStation 5's Development KIt.

Someone from a game development studio seemingly confirmed it's existence, claiming that they have seen such a device in an office before deleting their post about it.



The TLDR is

- some hardware changes vs the typical inside the SSD (SRAM for housekeeping and data buffering instead of DRAM)
- some extra hardware and accelerators in the system for handling file IO tasks independent of the main CPU
- at the OS layer, a second file system customised for these changes

all primarily aimed at higher read performance and removing potential bottlenecks for data that is written less often than it is read, like data installed from a game disc or download.
Next Xbox rumours:
There was rumoured to be two models, Codenamed Lockhart and Anaconda, with one being more powerful than the other.
Now only one model known as "Scarlet" has been publicly revealed, while nothing has been mentioned about the other models.

(Pre E3 2019) - Windows Central: Xbox 'Scarlett,' 'Anaconda' and 'Lockhart:' Everything (we think) we know


What we know about RDNA:
  • A new 7nm GPU architecture
  • New Compute Unit Design with improved efficiency and increased IPC offering 1.25x performance per clock
  • Features higher clock speeds and gaming performance at lower power requirements
  • First RDNA GPUs available in July, starting with the RX 5700 series GPUs
It is important to note that The PS5 and Project Scarlet are not necessarily going to be using GPUs based on the RX 5700 Series.
The RX 5700 Series GPUs have no hardware ray tracing capabilties.


From RX 5700 Series Reviews - RDNA Details:

















Zen 2 Details












NAVI and Zen 2
The Reviews for the Ryzen 3000 series processors and NAVI GPUs have gone live, we now have a wealth of information regarding the performance of Zen 2 and NAVI.

I've decided to include information regarding these products as Zen 2 and NAVI are going to be integrated in the next generation PlayStation and Xbox, however we're uncertain of how these machines are going to be configured, with regard to the number of stream processors the GPU will have as well as it's clock-speed which dictates it's therotical teraflops. As-well as the clock-speed of the CPU and whether it will have SMT or not.

From the reviews, Zen 2 is revealed to have incredible performance! We're at at state where they are able to rival Intel's offerings and even beat them depending on the workloads.

So far it seems that Intel still has an advantage in gaming performance in the current software that is available and I have seen up-to 20-30% performance advantages go to Intel's 9900K when tested against AMD's current best mainstream CPU, the 3900X (this could be due to WIndows schedular issues, I've seen smaller performance advantages when disabling SMT on AMD CPUs) this is a 12 core 24 thread CPU with a base clock of 3.8GHz and a boost clock of 4.6GHz, while the 9900K is an 8 core 16 thread CPU, with a base clock of 3.6GHz and a boost clock of 5GHz.

Intel has a clock speed advantage and some chips are capable of reaching 5GHz on all cores, some review sites such as Tom's Hardware tested the 9900K at 5GHz against the 3900X and 3700X.
Tom's Hardware - AMD Ryzen 9 3900X and Ryzen 7 3700X Review

It seems that AMD has rectified many of the performance bottlenecks from the first generation Zen CPUs with Zen 2. This is some really amazing stuff! I found TechReport's review of the 3700X and 3900X to be very telling of this, it's a very comprehensive review and they did a fantastic job reviewing these CPUs, check it out here:
Tech Report - AMD’s Ryzen 7 3700X and Ryzen 9 3900X CPUs reviewed

From this review I wanted to bring this section to attention, check out GTA V's performance on the Ryzen 3700X and 2700X here:




That's a 24.7% gain in average fps and signficantly lower frame times, this is ridiculous! This game has been something the Zen architecture has struggled with since it's inception, and Zen 2 seems to have closed the gap signficantly between it and Intel's offerings.
However, regardless of this improvement in GTA V, Intel still have a sizable lead in gaming performance in other games such as Deus Ex: Mankind Divided and Hitman 2 as featured in this review.



Here we see Intel's 9900K leading by 26.6% against the 3700X, and 34.5% against the 3900X.
Where the third-generation Ryzens traded blows with their Intel competitors in Crysis, Deus Ex is a different story altogether. Both of the new CPUs take a back seat to all three of our Intel CPUs in this title. I’m not qualified to pass judgment on why, but if you forced me to guess I might suspect that it has something to do with memory latency.
For more reviews, here's a Ryzen 3000 and Zen 2 Review Thread

On the topic of PC hardware, it is important to note that consoles are designed around fairly signficant power and thermal limitations versus PCs which can afford to have hardware that consumes signficantly more power and can be more powerful, as a result of this it is unrealistic to expect clock-speeds matching those that are found in things such as AMD's desktop products which can see clock-speeds boosting up-to 4.7GHz on single cores.
The consoles CPUs are likely to be within the range of 2.7 - 3.2GHz, or even 2.3-3.2GHz to keep the power consumption and thermal output down, and the GPUs may prioritize core count over clock-speed. For example, a GPU configuration such as this:
3072 cores (48 Compute Units)
3072 x 1400 = 8.6 Teraflops
3072 x 1500 = 9.2 Teraflops

Versus desktop NAVI parts which range between 1600-1900MHz
TechPowerUp - AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT Review - Clock Speeds and Power Limit
TechPowerUp - AMD Radeon RX 5700 Review - Clock Speeds and Power Limit
Anandtech - Anandtech 5700 XT and 5700 Review - Power, Noise and Temperatures

The 5700 XT has 40 Compute Units and the 5700 has 36.
5700 XT (Anandtech)
2560 x 1823 x 2 = 9.3 Teraflops
5700 (Anandtech)
2304 x 1671 x 2 = 7.69 Teraflops (Air-cooled Vega 64 Performance level, sometimes slightly faster than the Vega 64)

TechPowerUp - 5700 XT Performance Summary
RX 5700 Series:
Anandtech 5700 XT and 5700 Review

Zen 2 IPC Analysed by TechSpot (Hardware Unboxed)
4GHz CPU Battle: Ryzen 3900X vs. 3700X vs. Core I9-9900K

This is a really interesting look at Zen 2's performance, all of the CPUs are tested at 4GHz which gives us a good look at how AMD's Zen 2 CPUs fair against Intel's own i9-9900K clock-for-clock.
Intel does have a clock-speed advantage, as well as more headroom to reach higher clocks. The i9-9900K in particular has the ability to boost all 8 of it's cores to 4.7GHz, while the AMD CPUs typically max out at around 4.2GHz. It is uncertain whether this will get any higher for the Zen 2 CPUs when more bios updates etc are released.

I have included some of TechSpot's tests below, be sure to check out the article or even the video for more!

Hardware Unboxed (TechSpot's article in video form) - 3rd Gen Ryzen IPC Test, 3900X & 3700X vs. Core i9-9900K

Cinebench R20 shows the AMD 3700X leading by 13.4% in multi-core performance, and the 3900X with 8 cores enabled leading by 13.6%



For single-core performance, the 3900X (4 cores disabled) leads by 9.5% against the i9-9900K, and the 3700X leads by 9%



Gaming Performance

In Battlefield V, the I9-9900k leads by 2.5% in average framerates versus the 3900X (4 cores disabled), and 7.3% versus the 3700X.
For minimum framerates, the 9900K leads by 8.7% versus the 3900X and 3700X.
Comparing the 3700X to the 1700X sees the Zen 2 CPU leading by 15.5% for average framerates, and 10.7% for minimum framerates.



In Far Cry New Dawn, the i9-9900K leads by 5.3% versus the 3900X (4 cores disabled), and 9.2% versus the 3700X in average framerates.
For minimum framerates, the i9-9900K leads by 9.5% versus the 3900X and 3700X.




In this AIDA64's latency test, we see that the Zen 2 CPUs have higher latency when compared to Intel's i9-9900K.



In SiSoftware's Multi-Thread Latency test we see that while Zen 2 has higher latency when comparing "Worst Matched Cores" to the i9-9900K, it has lower latency when compared against the Best Matched Cores. However, we also see that the latency between the "Best Matched Cores" is lower than the i9-9900K.

Zen 2 has made notable improvements with in regard to multi-thread latency, as the first generation Zen CPUs see 53% higher latency when comparing the "Worst Matched Cores" latency to the Ryzen 7 3700X, while the Ryzen 7 2700X sees 35% higher latency when comparing the latency of the "Worst Matched Cores" to the 3700X.
For "Best Matched Cores" the Ryzen 7 1700X has 43.9% higher latency when compared to the Ryzen 7 3700X, and the 2700X has 42% higher latency when compared to the 3700X as well.

 
Last edited:
Jan 21, 2019
986
Big leak when? Shouldn't most devs have some kind of hardware now?

Edit: now after the Zen 2 and Navi release, what is the next milestone we are looking forward to?
 

Oluasc

Be more dog!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,828
...
Great job.

New OT, new prediction:

Xbox Scarlett

CPU:
Zen 2 8C/16T @ 3.2GHz
GPU: RDNA2 54CU @ 1.50GHz~1.65GHz and 10.3TF~11.4TF
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 560GB/s
SSD: 1TB NVMe @ 4GB/s

$499

My Dream Xbox Scarlett

CPU:
Zen 2 8C/16T @ 3.2GHz ( 4x One X )
GPU: RDNA2 54CU @ 1.75GHz and 12TF ( 2x One X )
RAM: 24GB GDDR6 @ 672GB/s ( 2x One X )
SSD: 1TB NVMe @ 4GB/s with M.2 Slot ( 40x One X )
I/O: Thunderbolt and USB-C

$499
 
Last edited:
Colbert's Next Gen Predictions

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,670
Germany
THIS POST GETS UPDATED REGULARLY

New thread - old habits

I repost my last recent prediction - bookmark it as I will update this prediction every once in a while ...

The prediction:




Remarks/Assumptions:
  • Clock speeds derived from TBP of Navi PC GPUs
  • RDNA Cache architecture allows for lower VRAM bandwidth
  • Both platform holders have the chance to wear the performance crown
  • Expecting an increase in game performance at the same computational power (TFs) just not by the number itself by at least 15%

The signature meme of my prediction!

GIF made by Chris Metal

Change Log:
Rev 10.5: Increased Upper Bound of clocks for The Realist and The Dream due to some benchmarks with a RX5700XT
Rev 10.4: Another stealth update. Formatting and Ranks for my predictions (Gold, Silver, Bronze).
Rev 10.3: Stealth update. Introduce clock range for each SOC layout. Results in a range of peak performances of computational power
Rev 10.2: Added SOC die size estimations
Rev 10.1: Lowered spec for "The Bottom", now all layouts have deactivated WGPs
Rev 10.0: Lockhart is gone, forever, ... based on more than one report
Rev 9.3: Reworked Lockhart prediction based on NAVI 10 scheme
Rev 9.2: DF video happened ;) New prediction layers: The Bottom Line, The Hope, The Dream
Rev 9.1: Changed lower bound to a different setup (Setup A) with a lower CU count but higher clocks. Upper bound still Setup B (16-06-2019)
Rev 9.0: Incorporated E3 Info from MS, AMD and some secret sauce from my side that will not be disclosed (14-06-2019)
Rev 8.2: Lower clock for the lower bounds . (27-05-2019)
Rev 8.1: Eliminate the difference between PS5/Anaconda but having 2 tier prediction for those consoles
Rev 8: New NAVI architecture makes CUs obsolete. Consolidated to ECC vote as more likely now after Computex info (27-05-2019)
Rev 7.1: Included the Endless Cycle Committee prediction vote into the table after a RfC (25-05-2019)
Rev 7: Completely changed prediction scheme: Lower and Upper bounds provide the range I expect the consoles will land (16-05-2019)
Rev 6.1: Changed from Baseline to Ballpark, Modified specs based on new information available to me
Rev 6: Consolidated to 1 baseline per console, adjusted specs & pricing for all consoles
Rev 5: Added 3rd tier to adapt on AdoredTV table of Navi GPUs
Rev. 4.3: SSD for Lockhart, Lockhart now $399 instead of $349
Rev. 4.2: Increased Memory clock instead of 448Gbps,
 
Last edited:

Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
777
Massachusetts, USA
Welcome to the new thread everybody! Now a quick question: Would mid-gen refreshes still be confined to the 7nm node or could we go deeper with the same arch? Thanks in advance.


Edit: Changed my profile pic.
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,855
St Kitts
Great OP!!

Funny, we have a surprisingly large amount of information of next-gen consoles. lot more than how it seems. but have very few specifics.
 

SeanMN

Member
Oct 28, 2017
908
Great job.

New OT, new prediction:

Xbox Scarlett

CPU:
Zen 2 8C/16T @ 3.2GHz
GPU: RDNA2 54CU @ 1.50GHz~1.65GHz and 10.3TF~11.4TF
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 560GB/s
SSD: 1TB NVMe @ 4GB/s

$499

My Dream Xbox Scarlett

CPU:
Zen 2 8C/16T @ 3.4GHz ( 4x One X )
GPU: RDNA2 54CU @ 1.75GHz and 12TF ( 2x One X )
RAM: 24GB GDDR6 @ 672GB/s ( 2x One X )
SSD: 1TB NVMe @ 4GB/s with M.2 Slot ( 40x One X )
I/O: Thunderbolt and USB-C

$499
Looks good. Pretty similar to mine, I'd happily take either.
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,386
Great job.

New OT, new prediction:

Xbox Scarlett

CPU:
Zen 2 8C/16T @ 3.2GHz
GPU: RDNA2 54CU @ 1.50GHz~1.65GHz and 10.3TF~11.4TF
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 560GB/s
SSD: 1TB NVMe @ 4GB/s

$499

My Dream Xbox Scarlett

CPU:
Zen 2 8C/16T @ 3.4GHz ( 4x One X )
GPU: RDNA2 54CU @ 1.75GHz and 12TF ( 2x One X )
RAM: 24GB GDDR6 @ 672GB/s ( 2x One X )
SSD: 1TB NVMe @ 4GB/s with M.2 Slot ( 40x One X )
I/O: Thunderbolt and USB-C

$499
Except if you think there are going to be 3 shader engines, number of CU must be divisible by 4.
 

Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
777
Massachusetts, USA
Great job.

New OT, new prediction:

Xbox Scarlett

CPU:
Zen 2 8C/16T @ 3.2GHz
GPU: RDNA2 54CU @ 1.50GHz~1.65GHz and 10.3TF~11.4TF
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 560GB/s
SSD: 1TB NVMe @ 4GB/s

$499

My Dream Xbox Scarlett

CPU:
Zen 2 8C/16T @ 3.4GHz ( 4x One X )
GPU: RDNA2 54CU @ 1.75GHz and 12TF ( 2x One X )
RAM: 24GB GDDR6 @ 672GB/s ( 2x One X )
SSD: 1TB NVMe @ 4GB/s with M.2 Slot ( 40x One X )
I/O: Thunderbolt and USB-C

$499
Here is mine:


PS5:

$499.99

CPU: 8c/16 thread @ 3.2GHz+
GPU: 9-13 RDNA TFLOPS
RAM: 24 GB of unknown type or speed (20 GB usable for devs)
SSD: 1 TB @ 5GB/s+ (irreplaceable)

I expect the PS5’s SSD setup to be superior to Microsoft's.
 

BoxingIsCool

Member
May 15, 2019
2,278
Here is mine:


PS5:

$499.99

CPU: 8c/16 thread @ 3.2GHz+
GPU: 9-13 RDNA TFLOPS
RAM: 24 GB of unknown type or speed (20 GB usable for devs)
SSD: 1 TB @ 5GB/s+ (irreplaceable)

I expect the PS5’s SSD setup to be superior to Microsoft's.
I do too. I actually expect it to be more powerful. I expect the whole console to be more powerful honestly. But I expect literally zero slam dunks by PlayStation and I expect arrogance that doesn’t play well given all the new PS execs we are unfamiliar with and all the customer centric moves MS is making
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,185
Great job.

New OT, new prediction:

Xbox Scarlett

CPU:
Zen 2 8C/16T @ 3.2GHz
GPU: RDNA2 54CU @ 1.50GHz~1.65GHz and 10.3TF~11.4TF
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 560GB/s
SSD: 1TB NVMe @ 4GB/s

$499

My Dream Xbox Scarlett

CPU:
Zen 2 8C/16T @ 3.4GHz ( 4x One X )
GPU: RDNA2 54CU @ 1.75GHz and 12TF ( 2x One X )
RAM: 24GB GDDR6 @ 672GB/s ( 2x One X )
SSD: 1TB NVMe @ 4GB/s with M.2 Slot ( 40x One X )
I/O: Thunderbolt and USB-C

$499

I haven't been following leaks closely, but I would be surprised if the next-gen consoles only have 16 GB of RAM. That would leave ~12 GB or so for games.

20 sounds about right, with devs having access to 16.
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,855
St Kitts
Team 12.9 tflops checking in.

We are currently accepting volunteers and ban bets.
We talking RDNA TFs or GCN TFs?

Anyways, my new updated prediction.

PS5
  • 8C/16T Ryzen 3 [email protected] 3Ghz
  • 44CU Navi GPU @ 1750Mhz for 9.8TF
  • 20GB GDDR6 @ 560GB/s bandwidth (4GB reserved for OS, 18GB available to devs, no not a typo, OS can "loan" active game app 2GB)
  • 1TB SSD (embedded onto PCB) 6GB/s max bandwidth (non upgadeable)
Xbox Scarlett
  • 8C/16T Ryzen 3 [email protected] 3.2Ghz
  • 44CU Navi GPU @ 1600Mhz for 9.0TF
  • 20GB GDDR6 @ 560GB/s bandwidth (3GB reserved for OS, devs have 17GB available)
  • 1TB NVMe SSD. 5GB/s max bandwidth (user upgradeable but wll void warranty)
 

Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
777
Massachusetts, USA
We talking RDNA TFs or GCN TFs?

Anyways, my new updated prediction.

PS5
  • 8C/16T Ryzen 3 [email protected] 3Ghz
  • 44CU Navi GPU @ 1750Mhz for 9.8TF
  • 20GB GDDR6 @ 560GB/s bandwidth (4GB reserved for OS, 18GB available to devs, no not a typo, OS can "loan" active game app 2GB)
  • 1TB SSD (embedded onto PCB) 6GB/s max bandwidth (non upgadeable)
Xbox Scarlett
  • 8C/16T Ryzen 3 [email protected] 3.2Ghz
  • 44CU Navi GPU @ 1600Mhz for 9.0TF
  • 20GB GDDR6 @ 560GB/s bandwidth (3GB reserved for OS, devs have 17GB available)
  • 1TB NVMe SSD. 5GB/s max bandwidth (user upgradeable but wll void warranty)
He means RDNA.

Also if the SSD is 6GB/s, that would be 60-120x increase in speed over current gen right?
 
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