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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air

How much money are you willing to pay for a next generation console?

  • Up to $199

    Votes: 9 1.0%
  • Up to $299

    Votes: 17 1.9%
  • Up to $399

    Votes: 107 11.9%
  • Up to $499

    Votes: 423 47.2%
  • Up to $599

    Votes: 208 23.2%
  • Up to $699

    Votes: 44 4.9%
  • I will pay anything!

    Votes: 89 9.9%

  • Total voters
    897

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,730
Sorry, I couldn't find an English version:

Then maybe you can provide a TLDR lol

Indeed.I wonder if SSD will become mandatory for PC ports of AAA games soon after next gen launch?
I swear, if we have another gen of PCs holding consoles back...
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,048
I believe he said it was an RPG game the other day, apologies if i am wrong.
RPGs have the tendecny to adopt the latest techs and fancy effects mroe than other types of games like a hack and Slash or FPS which opt for higher FPS.

My next-gen hype train has reignited. Only think that could take it even higher is if Klee says the game he saw was targeting 60fps
In that case, I don't think it will be 60 FPS at all. I don't recall any RPG that is 60 FPS.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
2,760
Sorry, I couldn't find an English version:

Here is a video in English (Next-Gen comments start at 7:00)

 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,137
He says their next gen NBA looks like live action. Wow
They say this every generation.

New console launches are really the Salad Days for lazy content authors. There’s the classic “New consoles could deliver a Pixar movie...in Real-time!”, “New NFL/NBA/FIFA/whatever game will be so photorealistic it’s indistinguishable from TV broadcast!”, etc.
 
Nov 30, 2017
1,413
The disc just serves as an (typically) temp
Storage to DL to you SSD and then as a license later.
Oh thanks. I never proofread my posts and forgot to add the main line of my thinking lol.

If they give us a TB drive and we have to swap games, delete and reinstall, that process should be easier if the write speeds are faster, hopefully?
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,773
Oh thanks. I never proofread my posts and forgot to add the main line of my thinking lol.

If they give us a TB drive and we have to swap games, delete and reinstall, that process should be easier if the write speeds are faster, hopefully?
Ultimately limited by the disc speed. In the case of a UHD I am not entirely sure. Faster than PS4, but I am not aware of that ultimate limit off hand.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,353
Europe
Wasn't it Bill Gates saying that about Xbox?
Hmm...seems you are right! Why i thought Ken said that...
I just found the quote:

Jan. 06, 2001
"Gates said the 3-D chips in the Xbox would be three times faster than anything on the market and offer nearly unlimited graphical visuals.
We're approaching the level of detail seen in Toy Story 2," he said, referring to the computer-generated kids film from Disney/Pixar."

Ok,Ken said that PS3 will be 4D ,i remember that one well! lol
 

Florin4k4

Member
Mar 18, 2019
293
So with next gen switching to ssd, what does that mean for existing game engines?
Do they have to start from scratch or is it “easily” implemented into existing ones?
 

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,165
He says their next gen NBA looks like live action. Wow
I actually think he's talking about current gen in that quote. "We're pretty close now if you squint a little bit."

I'm actually really excited to see NBA 2K and MLB The Show next gen though, they are going to look nuts. I'm sure Madden will still find a way to look underwhelming as fuck though.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,175
that rockstar ceo quote is exciting. ive been posting that rebirth unreal engine demo since that it was released at gdc. i think those megascans by the quixel guys are going to be gamechanging.

im sure we will still see some stylized games but environments are going to look pretty much photorealistic next gen.
So with next gen switching to ssd, what does that mean for existing game engines?
Do they have to start from scratch or is it “easily” implemented into existing ones?
pretty much every game engine supports streaming. the only difference is going to be the speed at which devs will be allowed to stream assets from the ssd into memory. of course, there might be other benefits but the core function of hdd and ram data transfer is already support in all game engines.

i doubt we will see devs utilize ssds all that well until late next gen. if those rumors of gta6 being next gen and allowing travel between miami and nyc are true then its possible that they just let you fly in a plane 550mph back and forth between the two cities in a few minutes.
 

DrKeo

Member
Mar 3, 2019
853
Israel
Come PS5 time reveal i expect Sony to push HZD 2 as there show off title .
For MS i have no idea maybe Halo or some other game we don't know about yet .
Halo has X1 on its tail. It will probably have to be a 3rd party exclusive.
I'll bet my life that Microsoft RT showcase at the Scarlett reveal will be Forza 8. They are going to show a car in display mode and talk about the reflections on the car.

Honestly, having seen how well the 5700XT performs at 1440p, I really wish there is a 4K.CB [email protected] (performance mode) and a native 4K @ unlocked fps [30fps+] () as standard in all games next-gen. I will take [email protected] over native 4K at 30fpsevery single time.
60fps also helps reconstruction to look better and have fewer artifacts so I'm all for reconstruction at 60.

Indeed.I wonder if SSD will become mandatory for PC ports of AAA games soon after next gen launch?
PC versions will require an SSD for sure and that's just fine. If someone doesn't have an SSD they can just go buy one, 500GB SSDs are around 50$-70$ right now and by the end of 2020, they will be cheaper. I actually pity any PC owner that doesn't have an SSD, even if his PC is used just for Office and emails. I mean, asking a PC gamer for a 50$ part that basically every PC gamer already has for years? Seems reasonable.


It's true. For you it may be normal or even required or you to kee the games you have finished on your system, but most people don't. Like I don't even let my system get more than 60% full. Once it hits 60% I just look through my library and delete anything I haven't played actively in the last year. And if we are to assume next-gen games will average 90GB/game, then with a 1TB HDD we would be able to have 10 games on the system at any given time.

I strongly doubt anyone is playing 10/12 games simultaneously.
Next gen games will be bigger than 90GB. You can't expect a generational leap and have almost the same game size as last gen. Also, a 1TB drive doesn't have 1TB of free space for games, it's more like 800GB. My guess is that a 1TB drive would be able to hold ~6 AAA games.
 
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gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,402
that rockstar ceo quote is exciting. ive been posting that rebirth unreal engine demo since that it was released at gdc. i think those megascans by the quixel guys are going to be gamechanging.

im sure we will still see some stylized games but environments are going to look pretty much photorealistic next gen.

pretty much every game engine supports streaming. the only difference is going to be the speed at which devs will be allowed to stream assets from the ssd into memory. of course, there might be other benefits but the core function of hdd and ram data transfer is already support in all game engines.

i doubt we will see devs utilize ssds all that well until late next gen. if those rumors of gta6 being next gen and allowing travel between miami and nyc are true then its possible that they just let you fly in a plane 550mph back and forth between the two cities in a few minutes.

I expect some devs to utilize SDD good with in the first 2 years.
This goes for exclusive games to the hardware like Sony first party .
Like spidey 2 will be crazy and i expect that in first 2 years of PS5 life.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,433
Somewhere South
I'll bet my life that Microsoft RT showcase at the Scarlett reveal will be Forza 8. They are going to show a car in display mode and talk about the reflections on the car.
You're probably right, and that's gonna be pretty underwhelming, because closed circuit racers benefit way less from RT than pretty much any other genre - 'cept for the reflections, of course.

Horizon will be first.
HZD2 will definitely be one of those "no fucking way this is real time and/or playable" moments.
 

DrKeo

Member
Mar 3, 2019
853
Israel
You're probably right, and that's gonna be pretty underwhelming, because closed circuit racers benefit way less from RT than pretty much any other genre - 'cept for the reflections, of course.
Reflections! Reflections everywhere! The car is going to have reflections, the road is going to be wet and full of puddles, the reflections are going to have reflections of the refelcting reflections... Look at all these wonderful reflections!

Kidding aside, I do have to admit that a trailer built for just showing RT reflections everywhere can still be pretty impressive:
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,433
Somewhere South
Reflections! Reflections everywhere! The car is going to have reflections, the road is going to be wet and full of puddles, the reflections are going to have reflections of the refelcting reflections... Look at all these wonderful reflections!
Lmao, totally can see that. Look into this puddle, you can see forever! *cuts to a tunnel of reflections within reflections within reflections*

The first one was like that when we first saw it .
A lot of people was like WTF that was gameplay that first trailer was so good.
Yup, remember that fight against the Thunderjaw, there were quite a few decrying it as fake and totally scripted and that the game would play nothing like that. And then turns out you can quite a bit more than what was shown then :D
 
Jan 21, 2019
769
Reflections! Reflections everywhere! The car is going to have reflections, the road is going to be wet and full of puddles, the reflections are going to have reflections of the refelcting reflections... Look at all these wonderful reflections!

Kidding aside, I do have to admit that a trailer built for just showing RT reflections everywhere can still be pretty impressive:
If this is next gen then I'm gonna laugh and cry. This looks like a current gen game with rt reflections that's it. That's not enough to wow me, sorry. I don't know what I want, obviously, but I am imagining the movie Akira but in 3D with all the grime and dirt and particles and physics and all that goodness and especially scale.





And GitS


Not even Cyperpunk is that impressive.

And I really really really really hope that they don't overdo reflections like the overdid bloom when it was the hot new tech in town.
 

Hawk269

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,478
It's true. For you it may be normal or even required or you to kee the games you have finished on your system, but most people don't. Like I don't even let my system get more than 60% full. Once it hits 60% I just look through my library and delete anything I haven't played actively in the last year. And if we are to assume next-gen games will average 90GB/game, then with a 1TB HDD we would be able to have 10 games on the system at any given time.

I strongly doubt anyone is playing 10/12 games simultaneously.

It probably has to do with how I play games though, I have a few games like GT and Tekken that are always on my system, but with everything else I start a game and don't play any other game until I thoroughly finish it (or platinum if its not ridiculous) an then after that i am done with it.

They will.
I get that. If you are the type to start a game and play it only till the end then that does make sense. I have a few games that I play a bit every other day like you (GT, Forza etc.). But for me I don't or cant play just one game till the end.

It will be interesting in the end how both Sony and MS approaches external devices. One thing about the "X" that I really liked is that you could pre-download "X" updates before the system came out and just plug in your external device and bang you are good to go with upgraded games. I think that is a feature that a lot of people would love, the ability to buy a PS5/Scarlet and just plug in your old external device (granted that the PS5 has full BC support) and be able to play your current gen games on a new system.
 

DrKeo

Member
Mar 3, 2019
853
Israel
If this is next gen then I'm gonna laugh and cry. This looks like a current gen game with rt reflections that's it. That's not enough to wow me, sorry. I don't know what I want, obviously, but I am imagining the movie Akira but in 3D with all the grime and dirt and particles and physics and all that goodness and especially scale.





And GitS


Not even Cyperpunk is that impressive.

And I really really really really hope that they don't overdo reflections like the overdid bloom when it was the hot new tech in town.
Reflections just reflect what's ever around, if the game has amazing graphics regardless of the reflections, it will look gorgeous :)
T10 is a really great technical powerhouse, I'm sure whatever they are going to pull off will be very impressive.

I actually think most next-gen games are going to go the Control route, one big RT effect and many small supplement RT calculations for existing effects.
 
Jan 21, 2019
769
Reflections just reflect what's ever around, if the game has amazing graphics regardless of the reflections, it will look gorgeous :)
T10 is a really great technical powerhouse, I'm sure whatever they are going to pull off will be very impressive.
Don't know, the reflections I have seen look weird. like too reflecty, or too noisy. It just feels like it's not there yet. Like the reflection as some kind of aliasing.
 

DrKeo

Member
Mar 3, 2019
853
Israel
Don't know, the reflections I have seen look weird. like too reflecty, or too noisy. It just feels like it's not there yet. Like the reflection as some kind of aliasing.
If you want to see the biggest contribution to graphics that RT reflections has IMO, look at the video at 0:40. His right arm's metallic shader, before the RT effects it looks OK and metallic but after the RT effect, the shader looks really great. Everything reflects, with RT materials can look super impressive. It's hard to achieve realistic looking materials without RT.

I know the claim that RT reflections are "too reflecty", but that's how materials really are :)
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,402
If you want to see the biggest contribution to graphics that RT reflections has IMO, look at the video at 0:40. His right arm's metallic shader, before the RT effects it looks OK and metallic but after the RT effect, the shader looks really great. Everything reflects, with RT materials can look super impressive. It's hard to achieve realistic looking materials without RT.

I know the claim that RT reflections are "too reflecty", but that's how materials really are :)

Yep , i think that going to be a problem at first for some people.
I remember seeing a vid about RT on a marble floor and people said it look fake .
The problem was it look like that if the marble floor is really clean .
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,773
I really can’t get down with complaints about realistic lighting. I means it’s like, “too much physics for me”

It’s just confusing.
 

DrKeo

Member
Mar 3, 2019
853
Israel
Yep , i think that going to be a problem at first for some people.
I remember seeing a vid about RT on a marble floor and people said it look fake .
The problem was it look like that if the marble floor is really clean .
I think one of the problems is that RT is expensive, so in order to make it more efficient they ramp up the roughness threshold which makes most of the rougher materials have no RT reflection while the clean and shiny materials keep them so it creates an uneven look, as if reflective things are too reflective while less reflective things are not reflective enough.
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
4,230
Guys, again, whatever PS5 and Scarlett are, spec wise, in 2020, you can bet that PS5 Pro in 2023/2024 and Microsoft "Project Gemini" 2024 (Scarlett mid gen upgrade like Scorpio X1X was to Durango will be a predictable, but welcome upgrade (main selling point: 4X the RT performance of base PS5 and Scarlett, but overall those mid gen refreshes will only be 2-3 times the power of the 2020 consoles. I think 10TH Gen home consoles (PS6 and its rival(s) will probably not appear before 2028 at the earliest (rather than 2027 at the latest).

So yeah, this is going to be a long gen, but by no means THE LAST traditional home console hardware cycle with traditional console hardware physical ownership (physical hardware + physical game software and movie (8K 128GB BD-XL disc media).

If I'm repeating too much or sentence does not make sense, well, I'm kinda high right now.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,433
Somewhere South
I think one of the problems is that RT is expensive, so in order to make it more efficient they ramp up the roughness threshold which makes most of the rougher materials have no RT reflection while the clean and shiny materials keep them so it creates an uneven look, as if reflective things are too reflective while less reflective things are not reflective enough.
Never thought about it like that, but it does make sense. It the real world virtually everything, every kind of material has some degree of fresnel reflectivity - look at it at a shallow enough angle and you get some reflection. The thing is that these aren't specular reflections. When doing RT, perfectly specular reflections, where the rays all fly neatly parallel, are considerably cheaper than the kind of scattered fresnel you get from absolutely everything around you.

So, as you said, things that are perfectly specular end up having neat reflections, everything else that isn't specular gets no reflection at all because it would be ridiculously expensive to do it properly.
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,475
St Kitts
And really that number is going to be skewed by we hardcore types buying 100 games a gen. In reality, I think the majority of PS5 owners won't fill their SSD for years, or ever if they tend to delete games they don't play anymore.



Keep in mind that a 1TB drive is really a 960GB drive that will also need to hold a substantial OS, and will work better if it has some free space. I think 7 games at a time is more realistic, though many games may be surprisingly small - the indies and the Sekiros, etc.
I said 10games with that in mind. Not all games will be 100GB. There will be a lot of AAA. Take sekiro for instance, that game is under 13GB.
 
Jan 21, 2019
769
I think one of the problems is that RT is expensive, so in order to make it more efficient they ramp up the roughness threshold which makes most of the rougher materials have no RT reflection while the clean and shiny materials keep them so it creates an uneven look, as if reflective things are too reflective while less reflective things are not reflective enough.
That's exactly it, that's what gets me! The mirror like reflective bits clash to much with the rougher ones. It creates a very uneven look where the lighting of a fire is correctly working with the perfect mirror aspect but everything around it does not interact to the fire like it should. It adds a contour that is very unnatural. I think its the same with faces. The closer we get to perfect replication the stronger the imperfect parts clash.

Here, this is just too spotty and patchy.

 
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Henrik

Member
Jan 3, 2018
1,275
Old interview from 2006 with Itagaki who talks about hardware power in general. Skip the bs part about DOA Xtreme 2 and go already to 3:05.


It's very interesting he says 4 times more powerful in general is more exciting for the devs than the double we saw in the 360/PS3 era. This gen was definitely the weakest of all generations.

Summarize:
PS2= tenfold
PS3= 2 times more powerful
PS4= 1.5 more powerful
PS5= 4 times more powerful

This is a reason to get excited for a new generation since 5th generation.