MS will have a stronger CPU (sram + more clock), more secret sauces (VRS), and cloud related silicon. Those don't come free.
Balance doesn't come cheap.
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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MS will have a stronger CPU (sram + more clock), more secret sauces (VRS), and cloud related silicon. Those don't come free.
Balance doesn't come cheap.
What does 40 active CUs at 2.0 GHz get us in RDNA Flops? *and vs* comparable, equivalent Flops in GCN 1.1 or whatever GCN was in OG 2013 PS4 and Xbox One.
(i.e a GCN GOU gen or 2 before Polaris)
(rock bottom scenario)
At the same 2GHz clockspeed, what do we get (in RDNA TFs) whenwe try the following *active* CU counts: (vs 2013 console GCN 1.1x TF)
44 CUs
48 CUs
52 CUs
Then also try, at 1.8 GHz
54 CUs
56 CUs
Then at 1.6 GHz try
60 CUs
64 CUs
And finally, try 1.2 and 1.4 GHz
with 72 active CUs (80 on die, 8 disabled)
I'll bet the PS5 GPU is one of the above combinations of clock speeds and active CU counts.
(i.e a GCN GOU gen or 2 before Polaris)
(rock bottom scenario)
At the same 2GHz clockspeed, what do we get (in RDNA TFs) whenwe try the following *active* CU counts: (vs 2013 console GCN 1.1x TF)
44 CUs
48 CUs
52 CUs
Then also try, at 1.8 GHz
54 CUs
56 CUs
Then at 1.6 GHz try
60 CUs
64 CUs
And finally, try 1.2 and 1.4 GHz
with 72 active CUs (80 on die, 8 disabled)
I'll bet the PS5 GPU is one of the above combinations of clock speeds and active CU counts.
40 CUs at 2 ghz: 40 * 2000 * 128 = 10.24 tflops
You can use the same equation for the rest.
The Zen 2 CPUs, RAM increases, and solid state storage is going to provide such a huge leap for the next generation. Sure, GPU power may only moderately increase from the Xbox One X, but the CPU, RAM, and SSD are going to allow developers to create massive worlds with close to zero loading, along with more complex AI and dynamic systems.
It's really going to be a massive jump.
With what we got so far (let's call them infos), there is a very high possibility the PS5 is hardware is capable of doing RT in 4K (or near 4K or checkerboard or sth like DLSS or VRS). That is if you take ito consideration the low level API and the fact that devs will solely optimise a game for the same platform and not multiple GPUs and hardwares.
Do you guys think that the average PS5/Scarlett AAA game in 2022 and on will have gameplay graphics in par with the Unreal Engine 4 Infiltrator demo, at 1800p cb rendering 60fps (and NO raytracing), with that level of detail?
Formula is pretty simple. you can do it yourself.
# of CUs * 2 * 64 * Clockspeed = x tflops
So 44 CU * 2 * 64 * 2.0 ghz = 11.26 tflops.
Don't forget to divide the answer by 1million to get the TF number.
You know that most of the Infiltrator demo stuff is just smoke and mirrors and everything is baked or halfly done right and nothing in it is groudnbreaking? For example the explosion yous ee at the end of the video is just a an explosion created in Houdini VFX program and imported as a canned animation and not a real time one, and not just that but only half of it is displayed on screen (yes it was cut in half) and sometimes just a quarter of it according to angles of the directed video. Same for other details. In fact most of the tech used in that video is alreay youtdaetd and already surpassed by the current UE4 versions and recenetly released UE4 games.
It's not real tech here you are talking with bro, just a pure wow nostalgia you got from that period tha did affect your objective evaluation of things.
They don't use the same chip, they use the same architecture.
That means they could go to different GPU and (to a lesser extent) CPU parts.
One might go with more compute units and lower GPU clocks while the other goes with less CU and instead clocks the GPU higher.
It will be interesting to see the difference in ray tracing hardware or amount of it.
Strange, then. To clarify, did Brad Sams report in Spring that it was cancelled last year? Or do mods and him disagree on the timing of the cancellation?
you are right. i was actually using the boost clocks listed on the wiki page to get the tflops numbers but i do remember monitoring the clockspeeds during my firestrike tests and it was pretty much always at 1.95 ghz for my rtx 2080. thats over 11.5 tflops for just the base rtx 2080 alone. not sure why they use the base 1.5 ghz clockspeed to calculate their own tflops. bizarre.
Except there is nothing to really corroborate that information. It will have a stronger cpu than previous gen thanks to Ryzen and it's 8 cores just like PS5, don't think there is so much more they can do to that they can spend so much more on and get a much weaker GPU. Also, that cloud silicone thing still needs to be proven imo, nothing really pointing to that. Xbox One S systems being used right now in the cloud don't require it and there is nothing pointing to Scarlett having extra silicone for XCloud. I think it'll be very close power wise to PS5, if not the same. And again, if CPU is stronger it'll most likely be a small increase over the PS5, just like it was between Xbox One and PS4. They said it is the foundation for Scarlett and XCloud, but XCloud hardware isn't that much specialized, just packaged in a way to be server mounted it seems.
I don't think brad sams was told when it was cancelled. But tbh I tend believe zhuge and Matt more. They have both been extremely reliable sources of info for years.
He wrote, 'double digits'. He said nothing about a decimal between them. So 9.2 is still a possibility :P
Actually, true double digits would mean between 10 and 99 flops, not teraflops :p
Rip next gen.
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OP
I've already added a link to this patent thread in the OP: V has come to (PS5 dev kit design?)
But since you asked, I decided to add the images of it too! I also wrote about the device being seen in someone's office!
Edit:
Whoops I thought I threadmarked Kleegamefan's posts, turns out I just quoted them lol. I'll make a new post with some of his posts quoted.
Edit 2: New post is here: Kleegamefan - Next Generation Console Information
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From what I remember, Businessinsider ran an interview with Phil Spencer in which they asked him about no longer mentioning plural consoles. His reply was something along the lines of "we just shipped a console(XOne SAD I'm guessing) and we have scarlett coming, that's plural". 2-3 days later, Sams ran his own article using BI as source and basically saying "I knew that".
I don't get why Scarlett is being reduced to a lower tflops count now, I mean Microsoft were (supposedly) expecting Sony to deliver a 8Tflps machine and they were supposed to counter it with a much, much more powerful machine.
But now we are back to 7-9tflops because reasons. What gives?
But now we are back to 7-9tflops because reasons. What gives?
If the final PS5 deisgn ends up looking like this one, I don't know how much dust the console can sustain tbh.
Btw, do you remember the suppsoed devkit that was leaked before with the supposed DS5? It looks very different than this one.XD
Btw, do you remember the suppsoed devkit that was leaked before with the supposed DS5? It looks very different than this one.XD
It's a joke. Both consoles according to Klee are very close. Anyone expecting greater than 10 percent difference is doing it wrong
If the final PS5 deisgn ends up looking like this one, I don't know how much dust the console can sustain tbh.
Btw, do you remember the suppsoed devkit that was leaked before with the supposed DS5? It looks very different than this one.XD
The way I read what Greenberg is saying, particularly because he specifically mentioned the Xbox One X, is that even if we got a 12TF box, that GPU is only 2x (ish) the performance of an X. Which would be drastically lower than the previous console generations. CPU is going to see a much healthier leap in comparison.
why is the first comment that shows up to me is something from 8 hours ago that says:
i guess we have our new bullshit pastebin like leak ;p
especially lol at 600w.
I've always believed Xbox Two, Project Scarlett high-end Anaconda, whatever name you call it, would be at least 12-14 TFlops, even back before rumors of Scarlett, and before Project Scorpio was announced, as far back as mid 2015 nextgen XB in 2019-2020 and PS5 around the same time, I felt 12 TF was the minimum. Because back then in 2015, everyone believed PS5 could be at least 15 TF.
Whatever box MS is going to make is 100% going to be driven by ninja. Dude just met and gave his book to Phil Spencer
Well the pics circulating at that time were obviously screaming 3D made and not real anyway.
No clue honestly. But to play devil's advocate, but if ms believed that Sony were going to release in 2019 at 8tf (weve been told they were planning 2019 and got delayed) then yeah if ms designed a machine targeting 9+ a f course they'd be confident. But then things got delayed, and delayed enough apparently that Sony could properly design for 2020. That being said, klee said both are double digit and super similar on tf so I don't really believe it will be 9. But ms believing an early release date for ps5 plus cancelling the two SKUs late enough that devs were even planning to make games on Lockhart spec and now needing to redesign for one....there is a sound logic and why a "downgrade" could happen behind th scenes.
Kleegamefan - Next Generation Console Information
OP
OP
Kleegamefan is a member who has industry roots, and has been verified by ZhugeEX. However, they were unable to verify the information they revealed in this thread. I've decided to make this post to house the information regarding the next generation consoles that they appear to have come across.
It would be wise to exercise caution regarding the information they have revealed in this thread, however Kleegamefan appears to be a person who strongly values their credibility.
Perhaps try to take them with an open mind and please refrain from being hostile towards them. It's okay to question the validity of the information but keep in mind that they can't really prove any of this stuff as it could get themselves and their sources in trouble, which we don't want to do at all.
Kleegamefan has said some fascinating things that I think people will be interested in reading about, so I have quoted some of their posts below:
Update:
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 1
PlayStation 5 backwards compatibility
Impressions of a Next Generation Game targeting PC and Next Generation Consoles
Games Vs Specs
The Next Generation game that Klee saw was the biggest open world they had ever seen in terms of scope.
Image Quality
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 2
How this Next Gen game compares to Control on PC with RTX (Ray tracing)
Not much talk of SSD benefits
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 3 - Currently, the PS5 is allegedly slightly more powerful than Xbox Scarlet
New Dev Kits
It would be wise to exercise caution regarding the information they have revealed in this thread, however Kleegamefan appears to be a person who strongly values their credibility.
Perhaps try to take them with an open mind and please refrain from being hostile towards them. It's okay to question the validity of the information but keep in mind that they can't really prove any of this stuff as it could get themselves and their sources in trouble, which we don't want to do at all.
Kleegamefan has said some fascinating things that I think people will be interested in reading about, so I have quoted some of their posts below:
Update:
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 1
PlayStation 5 backwards compatibility
Impressions of a Next Generation Game targeting PC and Next Generation Consoles
Games Vs Specs
The Next Generation game that Klee saw was the biggest open world they had ever seen in terms of scope.
Image Quality
The game was running on a Development kit
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 2
How this Next Gen game compares to Control on PC with RTX (Ray tracing)
Not much talk of SSD benefits
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 3 - Currently, the PS5 is allegedly slightly more powerful than Xbox Scarlet
New Dev Kits
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anexanhume is right and you are wrong.
I mean, how many times I have to post this following chart that is the average result of normalized tests?
Source: computerbase.de
Should be mentioned that this test isn't 100% accurate because of bandwidth constraints at the clocks, but it's probably closest we can get to determine the IPC.anexanhume is right and you are wrong.
I mean, how many times I have to post this following chart that is the average result of normalized tests?
nope, I checked real performance from techpowerup avarage performance in 4k, anexanhume from amd marketing slides, you from wrongly tested computerbase benchmarks (the didn't clock memory and some cards were bandwidth limited)anexanhume is right and you are wrong.
I mean, how many times I have to post this following chart that is the average result of normalized tests?
Source: computerbase.de
Sigh, I am so gullible
You know having a console outshining the other would not be beneficial for any gamer next-gen even on PC. It's not just few pixels or FPS that we gonna lose, but much more: devs gonna gimp their whole vision of the game to accomodate to the lowest common denominator machine thus resulting in a less briliant game. Think of a dev wanting RT by all means as part of gameplay but instead of having open world in the game, they gonna settle for linear experince because one machine is not capable of having both so every other machine will suffer from that.
I am really relieved that the Lockheart sku was completely scrappaed. It would have made the whole next-gen a nightmare
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LOL - None of the tests of TechPowerUp are normalized. You know that we talk about IPC, right? But hey, believe what you want.
I checked perf per teraflop, 4k is good way to measure as cpu is not limitting and my result are quite accurate, computerbase benchmark without taking into account memory bandwidth is a joke but you can belive what you want. One thing to take into account: I interpolate results as cards would behave if only we oc it and bandwidth is not limiting.
I thought the "divergent" part of this post didn't get much traction the first time around.
Think it's interesting now that everyone seems to have settled on them being similar/close.
I completely agree with you about Lockhart and this coming gen.
No 4-6 TF lowest common denominator to worry about.
Both nextgen consoles are almost certainly going to have 10+ TF GPUs, 3+ GHz 8C, 16T Zen 2 CPUs (with less L3 Cache).
Super fast SSDs, changing how everything works as far as loading and running., and incredible potential for games designed in new ways using FAR faster streaming.
Not to even mention raytracing.
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