Thanks was coming up short on info .
Know they had panel about some stuff in PSX 2014 but to lazy to watch it lol.
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Thanks was coming up short on info .
Know they had panel about some stuff in PSX 2014 but to lazy to watch it lol.
Now that that is out of your system, let's talk about the PCIe 4.0 SSDs, where the 1TB drives start at about $230 USD.
Sony was touting cutting edge PCIe 4.0 speeds, wasn't it?
The price premium PCIe 4.0 drives command right now has almost nothing to do with how much they cost to make. It's entirely about segmenting the market and charging a higher margin for the newest tech.
That won't prevent certain lighting conditions making the models look significantly worse, at certain points in gameplay you can manipulate the camera to be close up to the face and it will look terrible,almost like a last gen model.
The is first thing I do in games and UC4 character models are no better in gameplay then gears 5,infact I find gears 5 and gears 4 ones more consistent.
Yep the retail PC ssd market isn't what Sony is dealing with at all, obviously.
I do think it's surprising they aren't just slapping a cheap 1tb 2.5 ssd in there though. Even with that load times are reduced to next to nothing.
Thanks for the clarification, i was honestly hoping that the improvements of the CPU/SSD side can somehow ease the workload of the graphics pipeline to the point where low poly models weren't required anymore during actual gameplay just to save some horsepower for other areas like the environment etc.
In cutscenes devs jave full control of the lighting scenarios and conditions so they direct manually in a way that character models look the best without any fallacy.
During gameplay, accidents can happen and thus resulting in broken characters udner some messed up lighting conditions. This is due to the lack of dynamic lights/dynamic GI and an independent SSS mehtod that can circumvent that.
With next-gen and RT, devs don't have to worry about such possible accidents or tweaking some scenes' lighting during gameplay or even in cutscenes to make characters look fine since it will be automatic thanks to RT. This will lift a lot of work from artists just like how PBR spared them from doing different types of lightmaps for every lighting case.
Unflattering light is something that happens in the real world. There's no actual solution to that.
Yeah and alising happens even in phortos or videos or movies from the real too on some screens.
There are are some real lighting cases where even the prettiest people can look like monsters in the real world or on screens.
We can't have anything perfect.
If only there was a way for developers to not require various LOD's in a game, especially for their character models to the point where the cutscene model and the gameplay model look indistinguishable from one another, that is on of my top 5 hopes in terms of generational improvements next gen.
That SE tech demo shown earlier was fantastic but how do we know that character models will even look that detailed come next gen and not just switch it out with a lower level of detail during gameplay just to buff up other areas of the game like environment or RT?
That SE tech demo shown earlier was fantastic but how do we know that character models will even look that detailed come next gen and not just switch it out with a lower level of detail during gameplay just to buff up other areas of the game like environment or RT?
Would a full ray or path traced lighting pipeline be required for this I wonder, will next gen consoles be up to this task?
This reminds me of that DC pic with the lighting and shadow .
Where it look like the car was in the air because of the shadow and people said it look bad.
Until we get pics showing that is also what happen in real life lol.
That would be amazing if next gen's RT capabilities can achieve cutscene quality lighting during gameplay, regardless of the various gameplay scenarios that could occur.
Depending on what Sony is doing, they might end up with something that is actually even cheaper than your run-of-the-mill 1TB SSD, while giving them better performance in this very specific scenario. Buy storage modules in bulk, solder them to your main PCB during main assembly and you probably already cut a bunch of the costs associated with mass produced SSDs.
Console design is all about optimizing, compromising and cutting costs.
After watching a UE4 dev talk through a demo of RT in UE4 he was saying that RT is not required for some things, so maybe they could use RT for sunlight and other lights, shadows and reflections could use less demanding types.
Sunlight and areas lit indirectly seem to give the biggest downgrade of character models.
Normally yeah because this would reduce the use of any hack or approximation of ligthings that can are limited in some scenarios like being just screen space. Still for that we ened to go beyond simple ray-tracing, and go path tracing like what S-E is trying to do because this would combine many lighting and post processing techs at once. Still, we will always be not that close to relaity becasue we still need ray marching which focuses on even finer details that traces the whole path of light and not just its behaviour on the surfaces of things before entering them or when exiting them but also on the inner bounces of light partciels isnide objects which is the hardest thing to calculate. By doing this we can have the most accurate materail lighting, SSS and even do fluid lighting like particles of smoke, fire dust, water getting lit inside their own volume.
A long way to go.
It's really is quite preposterous that we have no hardware spec leaks by now.
This times last gen we had reliable info of the gpu tflop counts of both consoles, and now we have practically nothing.
Come on devs, please
This times last gen we had reliable info of the gpu tflop counts of both consoles, and now we have practically nothing.
Come on devs, please
Tbh, I think for current-gen they were almost settled with the final specs or at least the Flop number (if you don't consider the last change of 8GB GDDR5 VRAM for PS5 and the Xbox One increasing its GPU clock by 50 Mhz as counterattack after being surprised). But now, with more than a year before release, I think they are still tampering withe final specs on which parts they gonna modify to reach the final numbers.
OP
OP
Sorry about the poll, I see that some people are upset about the currencies I have used in it, I did ask twice in the week if people were happy with it but I didn't get much input about it, I also didn't want to add just one currency.
Perhaps I should have asked more times and threadmarked it but I didn't want to be a nuisance :(
I know that the GBP is not equal to the USD, and I was hesitant to choose this format. Perhaps I should have just followed previous console launch prices and created a poll following a format like this and going up by 100 in GBP, USD and the Euro to be a bit more diverse:
Xbox One S
PlayStation 4 Pro
Xbox One X
If most people are unhappy with it, perhaps we could ask the mods if it's okay to start a new poll with this format instead if possible?
I've seen prices like this from former console launches as listed above, with the initial poll I thought that a range of £/$100 would be okay.
For example:
£/$300-400 could cover the range of £349/$399 and £/$400-500 could cover the range of £449/$499
However, this is arguably flawed, and the GBP is in some hot water at moment with the whole Brexit thing going down, but I guess that's another story.
Perhaps I should have asked more times and threadmarked it but I didn't want to be a nuisance :(
I know that the GBP is not equal to the USD, and I was hesitant to choose this format. Perhaps I should have just followed previous console launch prices and created a poll following a format like this and going up by 100 in GBP, USD and the Euro to be a bit more diverse:
Xbox One S
PlayStation 4 Pro
Xbox One X
If most people are unhappy with it, perhaps we could ask the mods if it's okay to start a new poll with this format instead if possible?
- Less than £349/$399/€399
- £349/$399/€399
- £449/$499/€499
- £549/$599/€599
- £649/$699/€699
- More than £749/$799/$799
I've seen prices like this from former console launches as listed above, with the initial poll I thought that a range of £/$100 would be okay.
For example:
£/$300-400 could cover the range of £349/$399 and £/$400-500 could cover the range of £449/$499
However, this is arguably flawed, and the GBP is in some hot water at moment with the whole Brexit thing going down, but I guess that's another story.
I think both will be very good.
I don't think either will be lacking like this gen, especially like how the xbox one was (ESram + ddr3, netbook cpus and low to mid end gpus.
Its going to be interesting how they differ considering that they will both be $499 imo and won't come with an expensive kinect like accessory.
They will be both much betetr than this current-gen for sure but considering the ambitions of some devs and the insatiable demanding techs that were not possible before, devs will scream running out of power since day one, even faster than current-gen. We can never have enough you know.
I think that MS's first party games will target performance while Sony's will target visual quality. MS's games will be 4K/60 across the board while Sony's will be 4K/30.
For my personal sake I hope Sony doesn't do this. Limit 30fps to turn based, puzzle, RTS, or management games.
True, at least for myself personally the biggest area of improvement I want in games is npc animation + behavior and loading times.
Better graphics will be better but it's not something I'm really craving like I was last gen.
don't worry animations is mostly not very tied to harwdare but to the techs at the time of speaking. Look at what ND can do with motion matching these days. But i can guarantee you better AI, better physics and destruction are a given, for instance the chaos engine of UE4 is now available to all.
Mecha Meister
Scrap the currencies and just use $.
btw no reason to apologize, you indeed asked twice and got nothing in response.
Scrap the currencies and just use $.
btw no reason to apologize, you indeed asked twice and got nothing in response.
I remember reading a preview of GTA4 in edge magazine falsely describing GTA4
It went something like "we shot Somone, the crowd of people realistically screamed and gasped in shock with one npc dropping there coffee, the cops approached on foot screaming at me to get down, I shot one in the leg he grabbed his legged and screamed in pain complete with a agonising facial expression, his partner dragged him to safety behind there petrol vehicle leaving a trail of blood on the road"
Well, the game didn't turn out like I imagined it, and ever since that article I've always wanted a game like this.
I remember Ram being important for animation.
So i guess we get to a point where that not a problem any more ?
Oh crud, forgot to get back to you. I didn't ask him about devkits (I didn't want to potentially damage our communication), he thinks 16GB could be enough for generational difference. I'm not sure if we was referring to total system RAM or RAM exclusively for devs.
You won't be disappointed though. He kept on stressing how much software advances effect things too...
"Sony" is 14 individual studios (and counting) that will each have their own targets for resolution and performance. Shuhei is not going to give them a mandated list of boxes they need to check.
I am not worried but a 30 fps action game is going to get flak next generation. They all all be at least 60fps on ps5, especially because of VR.
It'll get flak from a very vocal bunch on Resetera and then go on to sell 10 million copies. Business as usual.
If it becomes a trend on PS5, and a negative narrative forms that Sony games are 30fps, they'll address it like they addressed cross play.
But this is moot as Cerny already said framerate is a big goal for PS5. Plus PSVR compatibility will ensure the game is at least 60fps locked. I expect all PSVR compatible games to be 60fps locked at least.
People soon forget the 8GB of GDDR5 megaton and calls of $599 for PS4 confirmed.
You're all under Sony's spell. I would've loved to see Cerny's face when he told Wired PS5 will be sold at a compelling price. I think something like this:
Bless his heart. I know he's a great guy but if the news broke that he had a couple of bodies in the freezer I wouldn't even blink. He looks like a sociopathic killer in this pic. Just taking about this pic, not his character.
Ahahah no problem, I was just joking there with the devkits lmao. I was actually following your thread waiting for you to ask him but I guess you ended up going private chat with him? Anyway, thanks for asking him, if he thinks 16GB is enough then we good (assuming he's referring to RAM usable by devs obviously).
It will be a per game basis. It depends on what the dev is aiming to do with their game.
Every game could be 60fps. That isn't what every dev wants though. It also involves resources, time, etc... All those things have obvious limits.
There is no negative narrative around 30fps. People want great games, great games can be 30fps, that's all there is to it.
It'll go where the industry goes. If lots of similar games are 60, they'll probably go 60. Same with 30. The studios that want to stay on the cutting edge of technology pay attention to what other studios are doing and will adjust accordingly. Personally I have high hopes for 60 but raytracing adoption could easily throw a wrench into that.
I think whichever one has more TF ends up being better. As you an do a lot more with more TFs than lighting based stuff. And even use the more TF for passable RT fakes... but thats al a lot of "ifs".
Personally, I don't get why anyone thinks either will have better RT hardware. They are both getting their hardware from AMD, and its not like AMD will make two totally different RT additions to their Navi architecture for laughs and giggles. I suspect RTH in Navi (or RDNA 1.5/2.0) will b tied to the WGP. So each WGP will have an RT core. This will mean that RT performance will be tied to clock speed and the number of WGPs in each APU. So whoever has more WGPs, or runs at a higher clock or both... has better RT.
Anymore leaks from the insider that talked about the crazy next gen open World game they saw?
Thanks.
Thanks.
As far as visuals though you won't be disappointed at all. A lot of those tech demos that are out now (like the photogrammetry ones) could just be the baseline according to him. Other things such as the CPU and SSD will be crazy as well (if devs utilize it properly)...
It's just that so many are doubtful, including me, so I think in all different aspects we'll be surprised.
He said he is going to meet up with his dev friend in October. Probably around that time we should expect more info about that game, and next gen systems from him.
Truth is i won't be surprised since i expect games to look crazy good in many ways next gen .
Look at what we get this gen and next gen is going to be a good jump not only in GPU but everything else but ram .
Yep. It's insane to think that everything we got this gen with a ~2x increase in CPU power and a very tiny increase in HDD speed. Next gen is like the opposite - a massive increase in CPU and SSD, with a large leap in GPU as well!
with how taxing ray tracing is on the gpu, i would say 30 fps is the max we can expect even at 12-14 tflops. either that, or cutbacks will be made to make games run at 60 fps. similar to how battlefield, cod, titanfall and other 60 fps shooters cut corners to hit that 60 fps this gen.
but yes, lighting, atmospheric worlds AND massive destruction combined with realistic npc behavior is what i want out of next gen. i want every npc to have a daily routine. i want to be able to stalk them back to their house. when spiderman swings over their heads i want them to look up and take seflies. i want random events to happen organically. everyone makes fun of the pizza scene in spiderman 2 but its a great example of spiderman getting distracted saving kids and solving petty crime while trying to do a story mission.
same goes for destruction. i want destruction to play a big part in the game's narrative. if you are a shitty spiderman and you end up wrecking half of manhattan trying to defeat a boss then i want that to play out in how the civilians treat you and how the media portrays you. infamous kinda did this last gen, but they can do it a lot more organically next gen with all the cpu power at their disposal.
p.s if gran turismo 7 doesnt have destruction, im not buying it. there is simply no excuse after all these years to not have a great destruction system in the game.
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