Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air

How much money are you willing to pay for a next generation console?

  • Up to $199

    Votes: 28 1.5%
  • Up to $299

    Votes: 43 2.3%
  • Up to $399

    Votes: 278 14.5%
  • Up to $499

    Votes: 906 47.4%
  • Up to $599

    Votes: 395 20.7%
  • Up to $699

    Votes: 83 4.3%
  • I will pay anything!

    Votes: 178 9.3%

  • Total voters
    1,911

Heaven Shard

Member
Aug 31, 2019
41
User Banned (3 days): Antagonizing another user
Console warrior pissing contest shit lmao. But okay honey, do you. If it makes you sleep better.
Wow, you have a chip on your shoulder, snowflake. I'm not doing anything and I'm not apart of this conversation you dinosaur. I'm explaining to you what the other poster said and you didn't have to go all drama queen just because someone thinks one plastic box will sell more or less than the other plastic box. You remind me of the idiots back in the late 90's and early 2000's. I guess some of you are still around. I hope you don't hurt your high horse you sit on with that chip up your ass.
How fast you judge people and paint them and group them in your little 'sides' in your head... It's all in your head, little buddy. It's not real. Never get emotionally attached to any product. It's pathetic.
 
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gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,679
with how taxing ray tracing is on the gpu, i would say 30 fps is the max we can expect even at 12-14 tflops. either that, or cutbacks will be made to make games run at 60 fps. similar to how battlefield, cod, titanfall and other 60 fps shooters cut corners to hit that 60 fps this gen.

but yes, lighting, atmospheric worlds AND massive destruction combined with realistic npc behavior is what i want out of next gen. i want every npc to have a daily routine. i want to be able to stalk them back to their house. when spiderman swings over their heads i want them to look up and take seflies. i want random events to happen organically. everyone makes fun of the pizza scene in spiderman 2 but its a great example of spiderman getting distracted saving kids and solving petty crime while trying to do a story mission.

same goes for destruction. i want destruction to play a big part in the game's narrative. if you are a shitty spiderman and you end up wrecking half of manhattan trying to defeat a boss then i want that to play out in how the civilians treat you and how the media portrays you. infamous kinda did this last gen, but they can do it a lot more organically next gen with all the cpu power at their disposal.

p.s if gran turismo 7 doesnt have destruction, im not buying it. there is simply no excuse after all these years to not have a great destruction system in the game.
You are asking for way to much .
Plus some of those things have more to do with budget and time than anything else.
 

Heaven Shard

Member
Aug 31, 2019
41
You are asking for way to much .
Not necessarily. NPCs react to you in Spiderman. There is a video showing RDR2 NPCs have daily routines. BF3 and 4 made destruction part of the narrative of the game. I imagine the poster wants more depth. Asking for destruction in GT is also reasonable. I want dynamic or weather settings in GT. It's embarrassing that after all these years GTS only has one rain in one track when DriveClub did way more to weather and that was an early game release and on a smaller budget. And yes, these things are more design philosophies than hardware limitations.

As pure technical limitations/achievements, I don't think I'm unreasonable expecting 4K60. What I don't know is how far 'new' tech can be applied like ray tracing. I've learned that lighting makes all the difference. It's striking how much difference lighting makes to a game. So far, seeing how amazing current gen games look, I know we're going to be amazed with next gen. Just think about it; no current gen game can stand a chance to a next gen one. Horizon ZD looks better than any SP game last gen. So I conclude that we will see open world games looking better than TLOU2.
Now, budget and time constraints will be a major factor, of course. But technically? I think next gen can do that.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,679
Not necessarily. NPCs react to you in Spiderman. There is a video showing RDR2 NPCs have daily routines . BF3 and 4 made destruction part of the narrative of the game. I imagine the poster wants more depth. Asking for destruction in GT is also reasonable. I want dynamic or weather settings in GT. It's embarrassing that after all these years GTS only has one rain in one track when DriveClub did way more to weather and that was an early game release and on a smaller budget. And yes, these things are more design philosophies than hardware limitations.

As pure technical limitations/achievements, I don't think I'm unreasonable expecting 4K60. What I don't know is how far 'new' tech can be applied like ray tracing. I've learned that lighting makes all the difference. It's striking how much difference lighting makes to a game. So far, seeing how amazing current gen games look, I know we're going to be amazed with next gen. Just think about it; no current gen game can stand a chance to a next gen one. Horizon ZD looks better than any SP game last gen. So I conclude that we will see open world games looking better than TLOU2.
Now, budget and time constraints will be a major factor, of course. But technically? I think next gen can do that.
I am talking about all those aspect together .
Yes we getting more power but just destruction alone could used up all that cpu power or something else.
Then add in more NPCs , better draw distance etc etc you can't have everything .

If we using spidey 2 as a eg i am sure they can have the NPCs have daily routines and destruction .
Having that effect the narrative is whole another ball game since that could mean more voice acting , more writing , work etc etc .
Which why is said some of that stuff is budget and time are more of a factor.

Sony has already started adding performance modes to some of their games. I expect it to be even more commonplace next gen.
I don't expect any of that until we get mid gen upgrades if we get them .
 
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PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,429
I am talking about all those aspect together .
Yes we getting more power but just destruction alone could used up all that cpu power or something else.
Then add in more NPCs , better draw distance etc etc you can't have everything .

If we using spidey 2 as a eg i am sure they can have the NPCs have daily routines and destruction .
Having that effect the narrative is whole another ball game since that could mean more voice acting , more writing , work etc etc .
Which why is said some of that stuff is budget and time are more of a factor.



I don't expect any of that until we get mid gen upgrades if we get them .
You forgot what Kleegamefan said about the RPG: RT (still in beta in UE4), massive physics and destruction (chaos engine is still in beta), all this in with massive intricate details and in huge open world. Ok, the Framerates are choppy right now but keep in mind both RT and chaos engien are still in beta in their current states and UE4 doesn't have a native PS5 support yet. If things are kind looking decent right now, then later things can only improve to an extent you can't imagine. But all comes to the devs and how much they want to invest in the game, the hardware is here anyway,, only left is the will and the skill.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,679
You forgot what Kleegamefan said about the RPG: RT (still in beta in UE4), massive physics and destruction (chaos engine is still in beta), all this in with massive intricate details and in huge open world. Ok, the Framerates are choppy right now but keep in mind both RT and chaos engien are still in beta in their current states and UE4 doesn't have a native PS5 support yet. If things are kind looking decent right now, then later things can only improve to an extent you can't imagine.
Did not forget i just don't know enough about it like how many enemies on screen, NPCs , Res, how much detail it have , physics etc etc
Also know things can change during development even more so when it so early .
I expecting a good jump from next gen but i also not expecting the moon lol
 
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PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,429
Did not forget i just don't know enough about it like how many enemies on screen, NPCs , Res, how much detail it have , physics etc etc
Also know things can change during development even more so when it so early .
I expecting a good jump from next gen but i also not expecting the moon lol.
We got a big jump from PS3 to PS4 on almost potato hardware. You can expect much moe for next-gen, it won't be something screaming big improvements like from PS1 to PS2 when moving from blocky stitched and facless characters to life like characters like in Silent Hill 3 but you can expect subtle changes and improvemenst in every aspect. Some won't even notice the RT features because they don't know their advantage to start with.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,679
We got a big jump from PS3 to PS4 on almost potato hardware. You can expect much moe for next-gen, it won't be something screaming big improvements like from PS1 to PS2 when moving from blocky stitched and facless characters to life like characters like in Silent Hill 3 but you can expect subtle changes and improvemenst in every aspect. Some won't even notice the RT features because they don't know their advantage to start with.
The number 1 thing i want from next gen is the environment being more interactive in a lot of ways .
Like in HZD when you fight mechs you see some tress and other stuff get destroy i want that to have a huge jump come next gen .
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,429
The number 1 thing i want from next gen is the environment being more interactive in a lot of ways .
Like in HZD when you fight mechs you see some tress and other stuff get destroy i want that to have a huge jump come next gen .
This will happen. Don't be worried. Did you see the chaos engine from UE4? It's very impressive, this what the RPG is having right now, without forgetting the other 3rd party middlewares like DMM, Havoc Nvidia PhysX and the internal solutions of ther engines like Frostbyte and some exclusive games that will have their versions updated for next-gen and tailored with the new consoles and hardwares.
 

monketron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
541
The speedier texture steaming that the built in SSD is going to give is really going to give open world games a huge boost. I can't wait to see what devs will be able to do with the tech. HZD2 / Spider-man 2 / GTA 6 to name a few. It's just a matter of time before Microsoft gets in on the act too, Fable 4 may well be their first big open world game on next gen at a guess? (not counting Halo, if indeed they go with some sort of pseudo open-world style with it). Imagine how alive they could make the world of fable feel.

Racing games should also see a nice boost. You could do some unbelievable detailed street circuits with the extra bandwidth to play with.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,374
As far as visuals though you won’t be disappointed at all. A lot of those tech demos that are out now (like the photogrammetry ones) could just be the baseline according to him. Other things such as the CPU and SSD will be crazy as well (if devs utilize it properly)...


It’s just that so many are doubtful, including me, so I think in all different aspects we’ll be surprised.
Yess
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,949
I’m in for 499, but they give me a reasonable level of perf with 2TB internal storage I’d be in for a higher sku at 599 or even 649. (By the time I spend for extras to have ssd external storage I’d be looking at that anyway).

Edit: To clarify, I think they should go for 499. Only a higher level of internal SSD storage as a separate SKU would make me go over that.
 
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Feb 10, 2018
14,045
Truth is i won't be surprised since i expect games to look crazy good in many ways next gen .
Look at what we get this gen and next gen is going to be a good jump not only in GPU but everything else but ram .
I think the doubt comes from the move to 4k and possibly raytracing, both which are very demanding.

However the way I look at it, is RDR2 can be done at native 4k on a 1X.
Now imagine if devs have 8 more tflops, double the ram, 4x the CPU, 40x the storage caperbility and ray tracing hardware, not to mention RDR2s tech is designed with 1.31tflops, netbook cpu and 5gb ram in mind.

So they will be able to create far more advanced foundations and also have way more resources.
 

Astrochelys

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,903
It really depends what they deliver. If it's an amazing piece of tech and cool features for 800€, sure, I'd probably buy it. But what I'm reasonably expecting of the next-gen consoles, I'm willing to pay 600€ at most.
 

nextJin

Member
Mar 17, 2018
313
Georgia
This crossed my mind several times,yeah.

Zen2 won’t be hot new thing in late 2020,AMD will have Zen3 next year,GDDR6 and SSD will only get cheaper etc.

Btw,if they launch $399 PS5 we shouldn’t expect any price cut for a very,very long time...that strategy worked very well for PS4.
I agree, If any of the rumors on Zen 3 have a semblance of truth I would imagine Sony/MS are giving Ryzen 2 and PCIe 4.0 drives time to mature.

They probably have no desire to use Zen 3 if it’s all about more cores/threads. For them, Zen 2 was that moment everything came together. Releases this years would be lower than spec SSDs using older controllers imo.

The only thing I cam see happening is 499.99 launch and bringing that down to 399.99 or 349.99 after awhile for a PS5 Pro. I fully expect it to be 499.99 at launch, 399.99 just makes it day 1.
 
OP
OP
Mecha Meister

Mecha Meister

Member
Oct 25, 2017
777
Mecha Meister
Scrap the currencies and just use $.
btw no reason to apologize, you indeed asked twice and got nothing in response.
Thanks!

Okay, so just USD? I'll have to ask the mods if it's possible to remove the pound symbol.
If this is possible, would a reset of the poll be ideal along with just one currency, just in case having two currencies impacted the choices people made? Or should just the currency change and the poll results remain?

Alternatively, maybe we could use this format (as previous consoles followed this pricing):
  • Less than £349/$399/€399
  • £349/$399/€399 to £449/$499/€499
  • £449/$499/€499 to £549/$599/€599
  • £549/$599/€599 to £649/$699/€699
  • £649/$699/€699 to £749/$799/$799
  • More than £749/$799/$799
This format locks in price points in the event that there are fluctuations in the value of these currencies, it also gives people a better understanding and a clearer way of expressing how much they are willing to pay for a next generation console.


So, what should we do with the poll? I'm not sure if the mods are able to make much if any changes to the poll, but if they can:

A - New Poll, one currency (USD) and reset
B - Same Poll, one currency (USD) and no reset
C - New Poll

Poll C
  • Less than £349/$399/€399
  • £349/$399/€399 to £449/$499/€499
  • £449/$499/€499 to £549/$599/€599
  • £549/$599/€599 to £649/$699/€699
  • £649/$699/€699 to £749/$799/$799
  • More than £749/$799/$799
Is there a way to hide it? It gets in the way of me viewing pages here every single time. I have to scroll down every time I view this thread.
Unfortunately I'm not aware of such an option, perhaps this is a feature we could request for the forum?

Edit - Made post clearer.
 
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Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
719
Massachusetts, USA
The speedier texture steaming that the built in SSD is going to give is really going to give open world games a huge boost. I can't wait to see what devs will be able to do with the tech. HZD2 / Spider-man 2 / GTA 6 to name a few. It's just a matter of time before Microsoft gets in on the act too, Fable 4 may well be their first big open world game on next gen at a guess? (not counting Halo, if indeed they go with some sort of pseudo open-world style with it). Imagine how alive they could make the world of fable feel.

Racing games should also see a nice boost. You could do some unbelievable detailed street circuits with the extra bandwidth to play with.
The game dev that I’ve been talking to made a good point that despite the current gen limitations we can still have open worlds with only one loading screen (except for game-overs)...

The bigger concern is weather or not devs will take the SSD as just “yay, faster loading screens” or actually utilize its potential. He convinced me that even without the use of the SSD we can still expect many game-changing things (w/ next-gen graphics).
 
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Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
719
Massachusetts, USA
I think the doubt comes from the move to 4k and possibly raytracing, both which are very demanding.

However the way I look at it, is RDR2 can be done at native 4k on a 1X.
Now imagine if devs have 8 more tflops, double the ram, 4x the CPU, 40x the storage caperbility and ray tracing hardware, not to mention RDR2s tech is designed with 1.31tflops, netbook cpu and 5gb ram in mind.

So they will be able to create far more advanced foundations and also have way more resources.
That dev also mentioned that they’ll be many more techniques devs can use to get amazing RT. And I mean a LOT of different ways, every studio might have their own formula. So those RT based tech demos (Star Wars or Troll) may not be so taxing after all. Of course, even without RT, rasterized lighting will still give us a generational difference.

Edit: Woops, double post.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,321
This will happen. Don't be worried. Did you see the chaos engine from UE4? It's very impressive, this what the RPG is having right now, without forgetting the other 3rd party middlewares like DMM, Havoc Nvidia PhysX and the internal solutions of ther engines like Frostbyte and some exclusive games that will have their versions updated for next-gen and tailored with the new consoles and hardwares.

Destruction is possible since ages in gaming. Even a low budget game like EDF features high level of destruction. If it doesn't happen, it's not only for hardware reasons but also budget and game design.

It makes no sense for most games to feature a high level of destruction because it'd either mean that the building would go back to their initial state (which doesn't make sense)... Or would mean that after a few hours of gameplay, the city or the environnement would be unusable.

I feel like in this thread, many people mistakes budget constraints, design constraints and hardware constraints.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,916
Right, I want more detailed and impactful destruction but it has to make sense. You can't just blow everything in sight to smithereens because that obviously would mess with the overall design of the game. Devs will still have to design smartly even if things like destruction and physics ramp up relative to this gen.
 

Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
719
Massachusetts, USA
We got a big jump from PS3 to PS4 on almost potato hardware. You can expect much moe for next-gen, it won't be something screaming big improvements like from PS1 to PS2 when moving from blocky stitched and facless characters to life like characters like in Silent Hill 3 but you can expect subtle changes and improvemenst in every aspect. Some won't even notice the RT features because they don't know their advantage to start with.
The reason why graphics improvement (not gameplay/game-design) may not feel so big next-gen is mostly due to artists and diminishing returns. I mean, hopefully we’re wrong. People thought graphics 15 years ago were on the cusp of reality.
 

napata

Member
Nov 2, 2017
527
You forgot what Kleegamefan said about the RPG: RT (still in beta in UE4), massive physics and destruction (chaos engine is still in beta), all this in with massive intricate details and in huge open world. Ok, the Framerates are choppy right now but keep in mind both RT and chaos engien are still in beta in their current states and UE4 doesn't have a native PS5 support yet. If things are kind looking decent right now, then later things can only improve to an extent you can't imagine. But all comes to the devs and how much they want to invest in the game, the hardware is here anyway,, only left is the will and the skill.
You should also entertain the idea that things can regress and that the end result can look worse than what he saw. He probably saw a vertical slice of a game early in development. Often what devs want a game too look and what they can achieve in a vertical slice can't always be achieved in a full game. Just look at what happened to Watchdogs or Anthem. The early stuff we saw looked much better than what was actually released.
 

Silencerx98

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
685
You should also entertain the idea that things can regress and that the end result can look worse than what he saw. He probably saw a vertical slice of a game early in development. Often what devs want a game too look and what they can achieve in a vertical slice can't always be achieved in a full game. Just look at what happened to Watchdogs or Anthem. The early stuff we saw looked much better than what was actually released.
To be fair, what he described sounded more like an early prototype rather than a vertical slice build. Also, worth remembering the trailers of games you mentioned were polished up to show the public. Klee saw this game in private, so there was no need to polish up the visuals for anyone
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,705
St Kitts
Thanks!

Okay, so just USD? I'll have to ask the mods if it's possible to remove the pound symbol.
If this is possible, would a reset of the poll be ideal along with just one currency, just in case having two currencies impacted the choices people made? Or should just the currency change and the poll results remain?

Alternatively, maybe we could use this format (as previous consoles followed this pricing):
  • Less than £349/$399/€399
  • £349/$399/€399 to £449/$499/€499
  • £449/$499/€499 to £549/$599/€599
  • £549/$599/€599 to £649/$699/€699
  • £649/$699/€699 to £749/$799/$799
  • More than £749/$799/$799
This format locks in price points in the event that there are fluctuations in the value of these currencies, it also gives people a better understanding and a clearer way of expressing how much they are willing to pay for a next generation console.


So, what should we do with the poll? I'm not sure if the mods are able to make much if any changes to the poll, but if they can:

A - New Poll, one currency (USD) and reset
B - Same Poll, one currency (USD) and no reset
C - New Poll

Poll C
  • Less than £349/$399/€399
  • £349/$399/€399 to £449/$499/€499
  • £449/$499/€499 to £549/$599/€599
  • £549/$599/€599 to £649/$699/€699
  • £649/$699/€699 to £749/$799/$799
  • More than £749/$799/$799


Unfortunately I'm not aware of such an option, perhaps this is a feature we could request for the forum?

Edit - Made post clearer.
Option B.

Everyone that has voted pretty uh voted s if that was the option anyways. One currency, USD. Everyone also kinda knows what the dollar equivalent of anything ends up being in their respective countries too. So keep it as simple a possible.
 

rfriar

Member
Mar 17, 2018
633
Right, I want more detailed and impactful destruction but it has to make sense. You can't just blow everything in sight to smithereens because that obviously would mess with the overall design of the game. Devs will still have to design smartly even if things like destruction and physics ramp up relative to this gen.
Yes, I love destruction in games; that said, you can’t really be allowed to go crazy in every title. After everything is destroyed......then what?
 

monketron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
541
The game dev that I’ve been talking to made a good point that despite the current gen limitations we can still have open worlds with only one loading screen (except for game-overs)...

The bigger concern is weather or not devs will take the SSD as just “yay, faster loading screens” or actually utilize its potential. He convinced me that even without the use of the SSD we can still expect many game-changing things (w/ next-gen graphics).
Yeah good point. Knowing devs though, they'll always push to make their game look better than the last one. People expect all games to run at 60fps next gen and while they may at first, in my mind devs will more likely be "hey now I can put 10x as many textures on screen and still keep the game at 30fps, awesome!".
 

RoboPlato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,726
Yes, I love destruction in games; that said, you can’t really be allowed to go crazy in every title. After everything is destroyed......then what?
I like how Control has the explanation that the building alters itself regularly so you can cause a ton of destruction, leave the area, and it’s fixed but you just assume the house cleaned up after you
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,567
Somewhere South
if gran turismo 7 doesnt have destruction, im not buying it. there is simply no excuse after all these years to not have a great destruction system in the game.
IIRC, car damage and destructibility in racing games is limited due to licensing issues. Some manufacturers allow it, some don't, some limit it to just minor aesthetics stuff and nothing that hampers performance. Virtually all of them ask for more money if the cars are to be seen in anything but their pristine forms.

That's one of the main reasons games like Burnout or Motorstorm went with fantasy brands, even if it's pretty clear what makes and models they're referencing.
 

Tonky

Member
Aug 26, 2019
1,039
I’m interested in Sports games like Madden and especially NBA 2K getting revolutionary improvements to AI and physics. I hope that they’ve been working on their next-gen engines for some time.
 
Jan 21, 2019
864
I’m interested in Sports games like Madden and especially NBA 2K getting revolutionary improvements to AI and physics. I hope that they’ve been working on their next-gen engines for some time.
All this improved AI talk...
I'm pretty sure most people would absolutely hate "smart" AI. Imagine every human enemy in the last of us 2 to act like a human player would, you wouldn't leave the first screen.

Better AI, as in they don't get stuck on stuff, don't do stupid shit like jump to their death, anything that breaks immersion, but good as in a smart opponent, well I highly doubt it would be enjoyable.

Edit: has there actually been a developer to speak about the cpus and how they limit their ai vision of the game? Would love to know where the possibilities end this gen.
 

Tonky

Member
Aug 26, 2019
1,039
All this improved AI talk...
I'm pretty sure most people would absolutely hate "smart" AI. Imagine every human enemy in the last of us 2 to act like a human player would, you wouldn't leave the first screen.

Better AI, as in they don't get stuck on stuff, don't do stupid shit like jump to their death, anything that breaks immersion, but good as in a smart opponent, well I highly doubt it would be enjoyable.

Edit: has there actually been a developer to speak about the cpus and how they limit their ai vision of the game? Would love to know where the possibilities end this gen.
For me, better AI doesnt necessarily mean more aggressive AI, just more realistic. And Madden/2K allow you to adjust the difficulty.
 

Metalane

Member
Jun 30, 2019
719
Massachusetts, USA

Cyborg

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,200
Thanks!

Okay, so just USD? I'll have to ask the mods if it's possible to remove the pound symbol.
If this is possible, would a reset of the poll be ideal along with just one currency, just in case having two currencies impacted the choices people made? Or should just the currency change and the poll results remain?

Alternatively, maybe we could use this format (as previous consoles followed this pricing):
  • Less than £349/$399/€399
  • £349/$399/€399 to £449/$499/€499
  • £449/$499/€499 to £549/$599/€599
  • £549/$599/€599 to £649/$699/€699
  • £649/$699/€699 to £749/$799/$799
  • More than £749/$799/$799
This format locks in price points in the event that there are fluctuations in the value of these currencies, it also gives people a better understanding and a clearer way of expressing how much they are willing to pay for a next generation console.


So, what should we do with the poll? I'm not sure if the mods are able to make much if any changes to the poll, but if they can:

A - New Poll, one currency (USD) and reset
B - Same Poll, one currency (USD) and no reset
C - New Poll

Poll C
  • Less than £349/$399/€399
  • £349/$399/€399 to £449/$499/€499
  • £449/$499/€499 to £549/$599/€599
  • £549/$599/€599 to £649/$699/€699
  • £649/$699/€699 to £749/$799/$799
  • More than £749/$799/$799


Unfortunately I'm not aware of such an option, perhaps this is a feature we could request for the forum?

Edit - Made post clearer.
Option B.
I dont know why this even a thing, the poll is just fine as it is. No normal person should care that much about such details.