Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air

How much money are you willing to pay for a next generation console?

  • Up to $199

    Votes: 33 1.5%
  • Up to $299

    Votes: 48 2.2%
  • Up to $399

    Votes: 318 14.4%
  • Up to $499

    Votes: 1,060 48.0%
  • Up to $599

    Votes: 449 20.3%
  • Up to $699

    Votes: 100 4.5%
  • I will pay anything!

    Votes: 202 9.1%

  • Total voters
    2,210
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Oct 27, 2017
6,966
I highly doubt it. Nobody releases games in the summer let alone consoles. I’ve always stuck with my feeling that both will once again launch within weeks of each other.

And it can’t be cross-gen going by that multi-dimension design. Only PS5’s SSD can support that.
Nobody releases games in the summer?

Madden, Judgment, CTR Remake, Fire Emblem, DQ Builders 2, Control, MHW Iceborne, FIFA, NBA 2K are all pre-mid September. Usually Destiny installments or DLC are first week of September too.

I bet it will be November 2020, per usual. But a September launch would help out third parties. Let third parties carry the load with launch games in late Sept, then have a big first party game in October or November.

Not to mention October is a good month too. And October 23, 2020 is the PS2’s 20th anniversary in USA.
 

Xeontech

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,651
The technical director for the coalition(gears) a couple days ago said that Scarlett has dedicated Ray tracing cores.
You clearly don't know what "officialy confirmed" means. And there is nothing "word nazi" about establishing what is officially confirmed.
I mean, I don't care in the slightest. But Anthony, you are the word Nazi here. Gears devs does not equal Microsoft officially confirming anything. No more than Naughty Dog devs or any other devs confirming anything.

You are literally eating your own argument.

I expect both to have dedicated hardware which they will inevitably confirm at some point in the future. But nothing about what you are saying has been 'officially confirmed' anywhere. You have to see that. Which is why I keep saying 'we know shit'
 

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,867
Nobody releases games in the summer?

Madden, Judgment, CTR Remake, Fire Emblem, DQ Builders 2, Control, MHW Iceborne, FIFA, NBA 2K are all pre-mid September. Usually Destiny installments or DLC are first week of September too.

I bet it will be November 2020, per usual. But a September launch would help out third parties. Let third parties carry the load with launch games in late Sept, then have a big first party game in October or November.

Not to mention October is a good month too. And October 23, 2020 is the PS2’s 20th anniversary in USA.
By mid I was thinking June/July but yeah September would be nice, but I assume they'll be manufacturing the launch units at that point for a November date.
 
Feb 10, 2018
16,826
I mean, I don't care in the slightest. But Anthony, you are the word Nazi here. Gears devs does not equal Microsoft officially confirming anything. No more than Naughty Dog devs or any other devs confirming anything.

You are literally eating your own argument.

I expect both to have dedicated hardware which they will inevitably confirm at some point in the future. But nothing about what you are saying has been 'officially confirmed' anywhere. You have to see that. Which is why I keep saying 'we know shit'
I was referring to what cerny has said and what was said at the MS E3 2019.
I must of missed coalition dev QUOTE, but now that I've seen it, confirmations don't get much more official then from the main first party devs.
Just out of interest does anyone have a screenshot of the deleted naughty dog tweet?
 
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Xeontech

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,651
Ok, so the coalition dev and ND dev said next gen has dedicated RT hardware.
Ok great, its settled then, its been officially confirmed.
Just out of interest does anyone have a screenshot of the deleted naughty dog tweet?
See tho, it's not official. Till MS and Sony say it. It's a moot point and argument that leads nowhere.

Edit: Tho I will admit, it was fun having something random to discuss in my favorite thread on this forum.
 
Feb 10, 2018
16,826
See tho, it's not official. Till MS and Sony say it. It's a moot point and argument that leads nowhere.

Edit: Tho I will admit, it was fun having something random to discuss in my favorite thread on this forum.
I think from a dev is official. I mean the coalition and naughty dog will know.

Put it this way I would bet $100 that scarlett has dedicated RT cores.
I haven't seen the naughty dog tweet but I will take peeps word for it.

Also doesn't this coalition tweet comfirm that scarletts RT hardware is on separate cores and not on the cu's?
 
Jun 23, 2019
2,457
Well that's what you choose to see maybe? There is definitely a hateclub that will and do jump on anything that a lot of Xbox insiders say on this forum and try to discredit them constantly. Its definitely a two way thing with cunts on both sides.
Not condoning dogpiling, but when you have guys like Penello who was towing the company line on the old forum bordering lying, it’s easy to see why some people are a it skeptical of anything coming from a MS insider or executive. Thankfully, we haven’t had that level of craziness happen yet, but the next gen is around the corner so....
 

Xeontech

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,651
I think from a dev is official. I mean the coalition and naughty dog will know.

Put it this way I would bet $100 that scarlett has dedicated RT cores.
I haven't seen the naughty dog tweet but I will take peeps word for it.

Also doesn't this coalition tweet comfirm that scarletts RT hardware is on separate cores and not on the cu's?
Well, imo since they both retracted the statements after the fact I'd put it a step back from official.

Coalition tweet did say cores until they changed it. But it's so vague anything could change at this point, and I don't consider any of it official till Sony and MS drop the bombs.
 
Feb 10, 2018
16,826
Well, imo since they both retracted the statements after the fact I'd put it a step back from official.

Coalition tweet did say cores until they changed it. But it's so vague anything could change at this point, and I don't consider any of it official till Sony and MS drop the bombs.
Fair enough.

If the next gens do have RT it will be so sweet.
These boxes are going to be very special.
Can't wait to see the first true next gen game.
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
2,169
St Kitts
I think from a dev is official. I mean the coalition and naughty dog will know.

Put it this way I would bet $100 that scarlett has dedicated RT cores.
I haven't seen the naughty dog tweet but I will take peeps word for it.

Also doesn't this coalition tweet comfirm that scarletts RT hardware is on separate cores and not on the cu's?
No it doesn't confirm anything. And that even goes against AMDs very own RT patent or whatever that was they published. As I aid before people throw around the word "cores" a lot when thats not really what they mean.

The sooner everyone starts looking at whatever sony and MS are getting from AMD for what it is the better.

The overall APU design for both companies will be identical. Or at least the technology in it. Where things will differ is with regard to things like CPU cache or number of CUs. Especially if AMDs patents are t be believed (and I can't think of a reason why they shouldn't).

So as far general tech related t the APU, if one announces something... you might as well take it as confirmation for the other.

Where differences in the consoles are likely to come are with regards to thins like RAM config and amount, bandwidth and the SSD. Expecting AMD RT solution to be different for both s like expecting both consoles o have a different types of WGPs. Just doesn't make sense (to me).

I am not saying one cannot have better RT than the other... just not for the reasons some here seem to be suggesting.
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
5,770
What rumors / leaks have I missed in the last 24 or so hours?

I agree that Halo Infinite is going to be amazing on Scarlett.
I expect the Xbox One X version to be like the base Xbox One version, with the following enhancements
Native 4K plus 4x AA
Absolutely locked 60fps, with almost no framerate dips
4K assets / textures.

For Scarlett, what it will have above Xbox One X, and in line with PC Ultra / very high settings.

significantly higher geometry detail across EVERYTHING from environments to character models, vehicle models, all gameplay modes and cutscenes.
Greater draw distance (almost infinite!)
real-time raytracing for quite a number of graphical elements.

Also, to show off Scarlett’s high framerate capabilities, 120fps mode at 1800p, with NO ray tracing
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,125
No it doesn't confirm anything. And that even goes against AMDs very own RT patent or whatever that was they published. As I aid before people throw around the word "cores" a lot when thats not really what they mean.

The sooner everyone starts looking at whatever sony and MS are getting from AMD for what it is the better.

The overall APU design for both companies will be identical. Or at least the technology in it. Where things will differ is with regard to things like CPU cache or number of CUs. Especially if AMDs patents are t be believed (and I can't think of a reason why they shouldn't).

So as far general tech related t the APU, if one announces something... you might as well take it as confirmation for the other.

Whe
You are right except re differences in the consoles are likely to come are with regards to thins like RAM config and amount, bandwidth and the SSD. Expecting AMD RT solution to be different for both s like expecting both consoles o have a different types of WGPs. Just doesn't make sense (to me).

I am not saying one cannot have better RT than the other... just not for the reasons some here seem to be suggesting.

You are right except if the solution both integrate are custom made by both MS and Sony (Cerny) since HW RT is an extra addition and is not 100% directly related to the actual GPU and knowing that ATI doesn't have HW RT for their current GPUs. So in that case the RT solution may differ vastly in both consoles and may even dictate how different the final design will be whether as motherboard or the look of the console itself.
 
Feb 10, 2018
16,826
No it doesn't confirm anything. And that even goes against AMDs very own RT patent or whatever that was they published. As I aid before people throw around the word "cores" a lot when thats not really what they mean.

The sooner everyone starts looking at whatever sony and MS are getting from AMD for what it is the better.

The overall APU design for both companies will be identical. Or at least the technology in it. Where things will differ is with regard to things like CPU cache or number of CUs. Especially if AMDs patents are t be believed (and I can't think of a reason why they shouldn't).

So as far general tech related t the APU, if one announces something... you might as well take it as confirmation for the other.

Where differences in the consoles are likely to come are with regards to thins like RAM config and amount, bandwidth and the SSD. Expecting AMD RT solution to be different for both s like expecting both consoles o have a different types of WGPs. Just doesn't make sense (to me).

I am not saying one cannot have better RT than the other... just not for the reasons some here seem to be suggesting.
So the AMD RT patent has the RT cores inside the cu's?
 

sncvsrtoip

Member
Apr 18, 2019
2,058
So the AMD RT patent has the RT cores inside the cu's?
It say fixed function ray tracing engine connected to texture processor.
"The system includes a shader, texture processor (TP) and cache, which are interconnected. The TP includes a texture address unit (TA), a texture cache processor (TCP), a filter pipeline unit and a ray intersection engine. The shader sends a texture instruction which contains ray data and a pointer to a bounded volume hierarchy (BVH) node to the TA. The TCP uses an address provided by the TA to fetch BVH node data from the cache. The ray intersection engine performs ray-BVH node type intersection testing using the ray data and the BVH node data. The intersection testing results and indications for BVH traversal are returned to the shader via a texture data return path. The shader reviews the intersection results and the indications to decide how to traverse to the next BVH node."
So they modified tmu to have additional fixed function (ray tracing engine) for ray intersection testing. Traversing bvh is done programicaly by shader (no fixed function for this task).
 
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Feb 10, 2018
16,826
It say fixed function ray tracing engine connected to texture processor.

So they modified tmu to have additional fixed function (ray tracing engine) for ray intersection testing. Traversing bvh is done programicaly by shader (no fixed function for this task).
So a different approach to nvidia, I wonder which implementation is the best.
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
2,169
St Kitts
You are right except if the solution both integrate are custom made by both MS and Sony (Cerny) since HW RT is an extra addition and is not 100% directly related to the actual GPU and knowing that ATI doesn't have HW RT for their current GPUs. So in that case the RT solution may differ vastly in both consoles and may even dictate how different the final design will be whether as motherboard or the look of the console itself.
I just don't see that happening. Its actually near impossible... unless said RT solution was an entirely separate chip. Which would bring its own slew of issues.

AMD has a patent for RT. Make no mistake they have been working on it for a while but it just wasn't ready for RDNA 1.0. But they would have given both sony and MS assurances that its going to be ready for thier next gen consoles long before either of them started talking about it. RT in both consoles would be as identical on an architectural level as Navi having work groups made up of dual CUs.

Again, this doesn't mean they can't still differ... that difference just won't be on a chip architecture level. Hell it could even be something as obscure as one of them having more GPU L2 cache or something which could allow more RT BVH data to be accessible or something like that.
 

Super Barrier

Member
Nov 20, 2017
842
Please spare me. This thread is filled with nonsense and you're focused on my posts. Go have a 💺 and have a good day after you cool down. Thanks.

Now back to our scheduled program.

🍵
I’m pretty chill. You said it yourself, the thread is full of nonsense, but what’s the use in commenting about the quality every other page. You’re making yourself sound like you’re on higher ground.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,913
I’m pretty chill. You said it yourself, the thread is full of nonsense, but what’s the use in commenting about the quality every other page. You’re making yourself sound like you’re on higher ground.
I can't control what you interpret from my posts.

Can we get back to the thread and its content? Which I was at least commenting on with my original post, mind you.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,125
Next gen, I just want a game where I can destroy Everything. And I don't mean at 5-25fps either.
Even if new consoles will allow extensive destructive, no way a sane leveld esigner woudl allow "everything to be destroyed". You will only cause havoc and the game being unplayable (not FPS wise) but you can no longer progress in the game if you only get a pile of debris and rubble.
 
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AegonSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,982
They’re part of the TMUs.
wikipedia says texture mapping units are part of the cus along with the shader processors, so we can assume that if both consoles have the same number of CUs, they will both have the same ray tracing capabilities right?

would clockspeeds matter? so say both consoles have 56 CUs, same number of TMUs but different clockspeeds, would the console with a higher clockspeed have better RT?

lastly, surely this makes CUs even bigger right? that means a 40 CU gpu with rt will be much bigger than the 251 mm2 5700xt chip? people were assuming the nvidia rt cores only add around 7% more size. thats not that bad i guess. a 350mm2 7nm euv gpu should be able to hold 56 cus with rt.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,648
wikipedia says texture mapping units are part of the cus along with the shader processors, so we can assume that if both consoles have the same number of CUs, they will both have the same ray tracing capabilities right?

would clockspeeds matter? so say both consoles have 56 CUs, same number of TMUs but different clockspeeds, would the console with a higher clockspeed have better RT?

lastly, surely this makes CUs even bigger right? that means a 40 CU gpu with rt will be much bigger than the 251 mm2 5700xt chip? people were assuming the nvidia rt cores only add around 7% more size. thats not that bad i guess. a 350mm2 7nm euv gpu should be able to hold 56 cus with rt.
I wouldn’t make that assumption. E.g. Sony requested 8 ACEs to MS’s 2 (the GCN standard at the time).
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
2,169
St Kitts
wikipedia says texture mapping units are part of the cus along with the shader processors, so we can assume that if both consoles have the same number of CUs, they will both have the same ray tracing capabilities right?

would clockspeeds matter? so say both consoles have 56 CUs, same number of TMUs but different clockspeeds, would the console with a higher clockspeed have better RT?

lastly, surely this makes CUs even bigger right? that means a 40 CU gpu with rt will be much bigger than the 251 mm2 5700xt chip? people were assuming the nvidia rt cores only add around 7% more size. thats not that bad i guess. a 350mm2 7nm euv gpu should be able to hold 56 cus with rt.
they can have different sized CUs in the same APU, as seen with the PS4pro. So while adding RT to the WGP would make each WGP bigger, there is no saying that they would add it to every single one of those work groups.

This is what I have been saying for the last God knows how many pages. On the architectural level, the RT hardware will be identical in both consoles since they are both using RDNA. However, there are other ways or things that could result in one console having better RT than the other, the scenario I just described is another such way. So imagine they both have 44CU (aka 22 WGPs). One could add the RT hardware to just 11 of those work groups and the other could add it to 16 or all of them...etc.
 
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