Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air

How much money are you willing to pay for a next generation console?

  • Up to $199

    Votes: 33 1.5%
  • Up to $299

    Votes: 46 2.1%
  • Up to $399

    Votes: 313 14.4%
  • Up to $499

    Votes: 1,043 47.9%
  • Up to $599

    Votes: 448 20.6%
  • Up to $699

    Votes: 98 4.5%
  • I will pay anything!

    Votes: 198 9.1%

  • Total voters
    2,179

AegonSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,436
They can't judge the whole RT features or capapbilities of the console based on just a line from a company. Maybe EA talked about RT shadows only because they are targetting 60 FPS again in their games even for enxt-gen so they have to cut some features (or maybe there is a graphical mode for SP enabling all features or a 1400p 60 FPS mode with full RT). Like you said, First parties will try to include most of the features to showcase the console RT capabilities twhile sticking to 30 FPS again.
they are not judging it exactly, just giving their opinion based on what sony talked about. just assumptions and speculations.

Richard just said that hes spoken to Cerny and in their talks, Cerny has talked more about efficiency than brute power. which is why he thinks there wont be a tflops war.
 

console lover

Member
Feb 19, 2018
6,032
they are not judging it exactly, just giving their opinion based on what sony talked about. just assumptions and speculations.

Richard just said that hes spoken to Cerny and in their talks, Cerny has talked more about efficiency than brute power. which is why he thinks there wont be a tflops war.
Maybe he has some indication of that from ms too. It can't be a one sided thing to not play the tf game
 

sncvsrtoip

Member
Apr 18, 2019
1,376
Ok Richard said Cerny told him that ps5 soc will be smart so I read it as ~315mm2 flute high clock and I'm going back to my prediction 9.2tf ;)
 

Chamon

Member
Feb 26, 2019
88
Off-topic but maybe you guys can help. I just cleaned my ps4 inside and changed thermal paste but when I was going to reassemble I noticed one of the memory thermal pads is missing... im sure I didn't lost it is this a problem or what?
You have an entire forum, and you have to ask this in this specific thread?
 

CosmicBolt

Member
Oct 28, 2017
573
9TF Gpu won't be needing the high bandwidth that Flute has.

The high bandwidth of Flute suggest to me, that Gpu is more than 10TF

Sony won't go overboard with bandwidth budget, unless that much bandwidth is needed
 

professor_t

Member
Oct 27, 2017
369
Predictions

PS5
GPU: 44cu @ 2000Mhz = 11.26TF
CPU: 3.2Ghz Zen 2
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 16Gbps on 256 bit memory bus = 512GB/s bandwidth
SSD: 1TB
$499

Scarlett
GPU: 48cu @ 1800Mhz = 11.06TF
CPU: 3.6Ghz Zen 2
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 14Gbps on 320 bit memory bus = 560GB/s bandwidth
SSD: 1TB
$499

Practically the same machine, just focusing on slightly different things.

Size wise, I think Scarlett will be the bigger box, PS5 smaller.
Just out of curiosity, what are your Scarlett predictions based on, if anything? I feel like there have been a number of leaks (or quasi-leaks) of the PS4 architecture, but virtually nothing for Scarlett.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,536
im thinking sonys gonna get rid of it. was really a gimmick
Both touchpad and lightbar are in the new PS5 controller and this is for the best to at least secure BC with PS4 games. What I want abck is the touch sensitive analogue directional and signed buttons liek for PS2 and PS3 since we have trigger resistance sso this is a good opportunity to add more immersive gameplay again and even assure full BC with PS2 and PS3 games that implemented them.
 

JamRock7

Member
Aug 19, 2019
641
FL
Both touchpad and lightbar are in the new PS5 controller and this is for the best to at least secure BC with PS4 games. What I want abck is the touch sensitive analogue directional and signed buttons liek for PS2 and PS3 since we have trigger resistance sso this is a good opportunity to add more immersive gameplay again and even assure full BC with PS2 and PS3 games that implemented them.
Really? Where was that reported?
 

Oluasc

Be more dog!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,602
...
Found finally something i can show what ps4 already should have delivered instead meh gfx.

I hope next gen finally deliver real next gen games like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/dfxwev/the_best_racing_simulator_ive_ever_seen/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

It will be a big step forwards like it happened in the old days. Instead of 120fps and 8k upgrade. Time to deliver!
Yeah, i know... Forza Horizon 4 is one of the best looking games out there and its already on Xbox One :)
 

Fezan

Member
Oct 26, 2017
691
Ok, this is the second time I have seen DF guys feeling down on Nex Gen console specs. During First Reveal, they said that RT and fastest SSD is just buzzword used by Cerny. Now they are speculating that RT hardware won't be as impressive as Nvidia's current offering.

I am here just hoping they are wrong on this matter.

Also, I will correct them here. There was no confusion on RT when even the interviewer tweeted that RT was talked in regards to visual feature not just audio
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,536
Ok, this is the second time I have seen DF guys feeling down on Nex Gen console specs. During First Reveal, they said that RT and fastest SSD is just buzzword used by Cerny. Now they are speculating that RT hardware won't be as impressive as Nvidia's current offering.

I am here just hoping they are wrong on this matter.

Also, I will correct them here. There was no confusion on RT when even the interviewer tweeted that RT was talked in regards to visual feature not just audio
Read my post above.
 

Philippo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,408
Milan, Italy
Since light bar and touchpad are still in the DS5, i hope they are implemented in a more elegant way, having a black square and a strong light on your pad was a bit too much imho.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,044
Ok, this is the second time I have seen DF guys feeling down on Nex Gen console specs. During First Reveal, they said that RT and fastest SSD is just buzzword used by Cerny. Now they are speculating that RT hardware won't be as impressive as Nvidia's current offering.

I am here just hoping they are wrong on this matter.

Also, I will correct them here. There was no confusion on RT when even the interviewer tweeted that RT was talked in regards to visual feature not just audio
Ever since AMD gave a preview of what their RT hardware would look like, we knew it would be more mild than Turing, and certainly whatever Ampere has in store.
 

Welfare

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,849
Just out of curiosity, what are your Scarlett predictions based on, if anything? I feel like there have been a number of leaks (or quasi-leaks) of the PS4 architecture, but virtually nothing for Scarlett.
RAM is based on the E3 video which showed what looked to be a 10 chip set up with 1GB and 2GB chips at 14GBps.

GPU is based on Scarlett being very close to PS5.

CPU is a shot in the dark.
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,762
St Kitts
good. ray tracing is expensive and results are barely worth it.
I agree. Maybe its because I am in an ill-informed position, but I am yet to see something using RT that makes me go "damn, i need this". The best looking stuff I have seen isn't using RT.

Then again I am also the guy that feels 4K is a waste of resources and they should focus on 2160p.CB instead. So I'm probably biased.
Do you all realy think a 1TB SSD will be enough next gen, especialy without the ability to use external storage.
Yes and No. yes it wilbe enough in the ame way 500GB HDDs was enough at the start of this gen. Not all games will be eating up 100GB+. But no it won't be enough if you want your console to e a game jukebox. You will have to do some data management.
Not in a single way. RDR2 is already 150 GB, TLOU2 is 2 discs, PS5 games will use UHD Bluray with 100 GB which means some games will start using 2 dsics again, without forgetting the installation size. You can reach over 200 GB alone for one single game. Sony are aware of this and I wonder what they gonna do with that. If they deem 2TB SSD is expensive to include, then they must offer 2 skus for those who are smart enough to invest in more size.
Don't forget the whole data duplication thing.

Honestly, though I don't understand why RDR2 takes up 150GB. Especially when you consider that the physical copy of the game only requires 99GB. It makes no sense to me.
 
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thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,473
Predictions

PS5
GPU: 44cu @ 2000Mhz = 11.26TF
CPU: 3.2Ghz Zen 2
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 16Gbps on 256 bit memory bus = 512GB/s bandwidth
SSD: 1TB
$499

Scarlett
GPU: 48cu @ 1800Mhz = 11.06TF
CPU: 3.6Ghz Zen 2
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 14Gbps on 320 bit memory bus = 560GB/s bandwidth
SSD: 1TB
$499

Practically the same machine, just focusing on slightly different things.

Size wise, I think Scarlett will be the bigger box, PS5 smaller.
This might precisely be it. Sony with the slightest edge over Scarlett
 

console lover

Member
Feb 19, 2018
6,032
RAM is based on the E3 video which showed what looked to be a 10 chip set up with 1GB and 2GB chips at 14GBps.

GPU is based on Scarlett being very close to PS5.

CPU is a shot in the dark.
14GBps has been determined based off that render? Interesting, the flute leak showed 16GBps, wonder if it's a difference in ram approach. Quantity vs speed
 

CosmicBolt

Member
Oct 28, 2017
573
14GBps has been determined based off that render? Interesting, the flute leak showed 16GBps, wonder if it's a difference in ram approach. Quantity vs speed
My interpretation is that, the flute leak showed 18gbps
Userbenchmark scores are usually the actual in game results and not the max theoretical.

RAM scores in Userbenchmark are usually ~8% of max theoretical bandwidth.

Flute userbenchmark 16 gb RAM bandwidth score is 529.6 gb/s, which is ~8% of 576 gb/s.

GDDR6 18gbps at 256-bit is 576 gb/s.

So it seems if flute is using GDDR6 Ram it is 18Gbps.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,536
Just read it. Right observation. I am just scratching my head here just as to why even when the previous article was published they used the buzzword to describe it. And again they are skeptical what next-gen can achieve.
It's hard for me to believe the RT capabilities will be that limited thus just a gimmick, in that case why bother include HW RT from the start. I think the chosen example here is not the right one and Sony is still spraying infos drop by drop.
Kleegamefan talked about a massive open world game with massive destruction, intricate details advanced shadows and offscreen reflections from what I understood (so they must be ray traced). ok the game runs with not decent FPS and this is expected if devs favor graphics and optimisations will improve things. Tbh, I can't expect 60 FPS with full RT effects in such types of games but in limited games like Hustle Kings or Chess Ultra or Knack 3 like I explaiend before.
 

Sams88

Member
Oct 9, 2019
28
From a non-tech, laypersons, point of view. I still think Tomorrow’s Children on PS4 is what many think of when Ray Tracing is discussed. A very clean, shiny, stylised look.

Ray Tracing implementation in current games like Control, BF5 etc. looks like an evolution of what we see now. I honestly would have no idea it was being used if the videos weren’t labelled as such.

The only time I can really see it shining (no pun intended) is on mechanical objects, cars etc. And they already look close to photorealistic on current gen!


It's hard for me to believe the RT capabilities will be that limited thus just a gimmick, in that case why bother include HW RT from the start. I think the chosen example here is not the right one and Sony is still spraying infos drop by drop.
Kleegamefan talked about a massive open world game with massive destruction, intricate details advanced shadows and offscreen reflections from what I understood (so they must be ray traced). ok the game runs with not decent FPS and this is expected if devs favor graphics and optimisations will improve things. Tbh, I can't expect 60 FPS with full RT effects in such types of games but in limited games like Hustle Kings or Chess Ultra or Knack 3 like I explaiend before.
This is the first gen where the likes of Digital Foundry seem to genuinely have no idea about the intricate details of these consoles. The nearest we have to any sort of confirmation is PS5 using a 1TB SSD.
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,762
St Kitts
Predictions

PS5
GPU: 44cu @ 2000Mhz = 11.26TF
CPU: 3.2Ghz Zen 2
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 16Gbps on 256 bit memory bus = 512GB/s bandwidth
SSD: 1TB
$499

Scarlett
GPU: 48cu @ 1800Mhz = 11.06TF
CPU: 3.6Ghz Zen 2
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 14Gbps on 320 bit memory bus = 560GB/s bandwidth
SSD: 1TB
$499

Practically the same machine, just focusing on slightly different things.

Size wise, I think Scarlett will be the bigger box, PS5 smaller.
With the Scars RAM... how are they getting 16GB of RAM on a 320-bit bus? 320-bit bus suggests 10 RAM chips. So the only way they get 16GB is with a mixture of RAM sizes.

Can anyone clarify if something like that is possible? Cause I think its not. Especially with how RAM stripes its data over all the available chips. That's literally how it hits those bandwidth figures.
My bad, 14GBps, but the supposed die is bigger. Why would they need to clock that low? Not that it's crazy lowb
Slower RAM(14Gbs + Wider Bus(320-bit) vs Faster RAM(16Gbs) + Narrower bus (256-bit).

In one case you spend less per chip but need more of them, in the other you spend more per chip but need less of them.
 

console lover

Member
Feb 19, 2018
6,032
With the Scars RAM... how are they getting 16GB of RAM on a 320-bit bus? 320-bit bus suggests 10 RAM chips. So the only way they get 16GB is with a mixture of RAM sizes.

Can anyone clarify if something like that is possible? Cause I think its not. Especially with how RAM stripes its data over all the available chips. That's literally how it hits those bandwidth figures.

Slower RAM(14Gbs + Wider Bus(320-bit) vs Faster RAM(16Gbs) + Narrower bus (256-bit).

In one case you spend less per chip but need more of them, in the other you spend more per chip but need less of them.
How much could that save in die size? Assuming they are comfortable with the cooling situation
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,732
RT will be impressive on consoles once you don't have your head in the clouds .
Lighting already good so anything that can make it better along with everything else is a plus .
 

RoboPlato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,759
RT will be impressive on consoles once you don't have your head in the clouds .
Lighting already good so anything that can make it better along with everything else is a plus .
I’m expecting heavily hybridized solutions for RT next-gen. More focused on accurate behavior and placement without the need for baking than a huge quality jump.
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,762
St Kitts
How much could that save in die size? Assuming they are comfortable with the cooling situation
Don't know, but its two 32-bit controllers less. We had a measurement on hereon the GPU components but i can't find it so that could be a great reference.

I don't think the die space saved is what is really important though, its probably that you will use less power (and in turn contributing less heat to th chip) driving 8x16Gbs modules than you would driving 10x14Gbs modules. It also makes for a smaller and less expensive (fewer traces) PCB.
 

console lover

Member
Feb 19, 2018
6,032
What is this based on??
Executive editor of Game Informer straight up said, that in discussion on the show floor for a conference devs were saying that ps5 is more powerful. It was unequivocal and even clarified that based on target specs each was targeting, not even the iteration of devkit they currently had. Add in kleegamefan saying the difference between the new consoles is less than the difference between og X1 and PS4, and here we are
 

DrKeo

Member
Mar 3, 2019
988
Israel
With the Scars RAM... how are they getting 16GB of RAM on a 320-bit bus? 320-bit bus suggests 10 RAM chips. So the only way they get 16GB is with a mixture of RAM sizes.

Can anyone clarify if something like that is possible? Cause I think its not. Especially with how RAM stripes its data over all the available chips. That's literally how it hits those bandwidth figures.
MS had shown us in the CGI trailer a mixture of 1GB and 2GB chips, 10 of those means anything between 11GB and 19GB of GDDR6 in Scarlett unless they will decide to downgrade to just 1GB chips (which will never happen) or just 2GB (which might happen).

Slower RAM(14Gbs + Wider Bus(320-bit) vs Faster RAM(16Gbs) + Narrower bus (256-bit).
Flute implies a 256-bit bus with 16GB of 18Gbps GDDR6, MS CGI trailer from E3 implies a 320-bit bus with 10GB-20GB of 14Gbps GDDR6.

How much could that save in die size? Assuming they are comfortable with the cooling situation
320-bit vs 256-bit should be ~20mm^2 on the die.