Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air

How much money are you willing to pay for a next generation console?

  • Up to $199

    Votes: 33 1.5%
  • Up to $299

    Votes: 48 2.2%
  • Up to $399

    Votes: 318 14.4%
  • Up to $499

    Votes: 1,060 48.0%
  • Up to $599

    Votes: 449 20.3%
  • Up to $699

    Votes: 100 4.5%
  • I will pay anything!

    Votes: 202 9.1%

  • Total voters
    2,210
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Sep 28, 2019
169
i hope they dont make PS3 BC a reality - who cares actually about playing those old games?? The loud Whiners should be alowed to whine though - i will read all of it and have a very flavorfull cheese to it.
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
2,167
St Kitts
I think people are too used to overexcitement and hyperbole. Caution isn’t downplaying; more of an admission that they don’t know what to expect, and to be honest, none of us do.
I tink the safest fairest expectation is a GPU that falls within 9TF and 11TF and RAM that falls between 18GB and 24GB total RAM. I believe that if next-gen land somewhere then everyone will be happy or at least not disappointed.

Anything below 9TF and 16GB and there will be blood in the streets. Anything above 11TF and ther will be dogs and cats living together and mass hysteria.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,416
Ah, Misterxmedia. That's a name I haven't heard of since I was a lurker at the old place. A bit surprised he's still around doing his thing.

I hope so. Not necessarily a dealbreaker if they can't get it, but I would like to retire my PS3 from BC duty. I'm also hoping that this includes digital purchases as well.
Yeah, it's not that my PS3 isn't good at it, but I don't trust that it'll keep living too much longer considering every other person I know with my model PS3 has a brick these days.
 
Dec 31, 2017
492
I tink the safest fairest expectation is a GPU that falls within 9TF and 11TF and RAM that falls between 18GB and 24GB total RAM. I believe that if next-gen land somewhere then everyone will be happy or at least not disappointed.

Anything below 9TF and 16GB and there will be blood in the streets. Anything above 11TF and ther will be dogs and cats living together and mass hysteria.
I'm expecting 16GB on both sides and around 11Tflops on both consoles. Anything above 16GB is follish imo; 16GB is plently fo RAM for next gen.
 

console lover

Member
Feb 19, 2018
6,094
Although I think the two SSD size SKUs would be good....at the same time, I don't even see hardcore people not buying a console because it's limited to 1tb
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,138
Although I think the two SSD size SKUs would be good....at the same time, I don't even see hardcore people not buying a console because it's limited to 1tb
I wouldn't not buy a 1Tb version if that were all there was. But if a 2tb option is there, id pay the premium.

But I put 2tb drives in both my OG and Pro to avoid too much memory management. I'm just used to not having to fiddle too much.
 

RoboPlato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,151
Some seem to be, but it's not on the back of much in the way of actual evidence. Like a lot of things in this thread, it reflects the relative lack of actual concrete information about the forthcoming consoles.
Yeah wasn’t it just some random Pastebin or Reddit rumor that said PS5 was 300? I have no idea why that’s been taken as a given in this thread. It keeps coming back up.
 

boxingiscool

Member
May 15, 2019
2,996
I honesty don’t think we will see any crazy awesome next gen games. I think we will see games that just perform better but nothing like ZOMG I NEED IT
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,449
Yeah wasn’t it just some random Pastebin or Reddit rumor that said PS5 was 300? I have no idea why that’s been taken as a given in this thread. It keeps coming back up.
Yeah I can't in good conscience say one leak is accurate and another is inaccurate but I would much rather hang my hat on Kleegamefan and Andrew Reiner.


Either way this all sounds....insane.
 

console lover

Member
Feb 19, 2018
6,094
Yeah wasn’t it just some random Pastebin or Reddit rumor that said PS5 was 300? I have no idea why that’s been taken as a given in this thread. It keeps coming back up.
I thought it was a tweet from someone deemed reliable? Issue is, that's one person who said the die sizes, but multiple reliable people who have gone on record and said that the ps5 is more powerful but it's so marginal that it doesn't matter in the end anyway. So now we've been in a tizy for months trying to reconcile a considerably larger die board for Xbox yet performance within ten percent of each other either way
 

nashman1313

Member
Nov 6, 2017
216
I honesty don’t think we will see any crazy awesome next gen games. I think we will see games that just perform better but nothing like ZOMG I NEED IT
Horizon 2 should melt faces. Guerrila being first party has prolly had dev kits since forever. Im sure they'll market it as "not being constrained by last-gen hardware" since this is a big advantage Sony has over MS as MS is going the other way pushing forward-backward compatabiliy. Witch is cool, but you lose the 'true next-gen exspearence' that Sony will hype with HDZ2.

One positive thing thou with MS, specifically Halo Infinate being on base Xbox One and Scarlett. Im guessing Halo Infinate on Scarlett could end up being 4k 120fps supporting VRR monitors and TVs. While Im expecting HDZ2 4k 60.
 

Ricky Ricardo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
796
Atlanta, GA
Horizon 2 should melt faces. Guerrila being first party has prolly had dev kits since forever. Im sure they'll market it as "not being constrained by last-gen hardware" since this is a big advantage Sony has over MS as MS is going the other way pushing forward-backward compatabiliy. Witch is cool, but you lose the 'true next-gen exspearence' that Sony will hype with HDZ2.

One positive thing thou with MS, specifically Halo Infinate being on base Xbox One and Scarlett. Im guessing Halo Infinate on Scarlett could end up being 4k 120fps supporting VRR monitors and TVs. While Im expecting HDZ2 4k 60.
I ... think this is a poor expectation to have. Sony's MO is high-quality cinematic games, and graphics play a large role in that. I can't see them sacrificing potential brownie points @ 30fps for 60fps. Though I'd love to be wrong because nothing looks as good as 60fps feels.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,568
United Kingdom
If it was really as fast as the internal that's fine, but I figured that if that was possible then the drive should also be replaceable. If it isn't, then I assumed it was due to some performance advantage of it being soldered right on the board.
Chips being soldered t9 the PCB is simply cheaper. If they do it that way, that would be the reasoning ultimately. On the other hand, taking such an approach would mean the on-board storage device cannot be replaced if it becomes faulty. So the manufacturer would need to select the type of NAND flash chips supplied carefully, to ensure a given level of read write reliability for the intended use case, otherwise they’ll bear the cost of warranty repairs for a lot of effectively dead consoles.

We already know that full immediacy won't be a thing due to forced installing from disc or download already being confirmed and patches for the older games needing to be downloaded, and a decent external HDD would be considerably quicker than those (it could quite possibly transfer those 50+GB in less time than it would take to download some patches, effectively adding no extra time) while also needing to be used less. People will have to put up with one, so putting up with the other will be perfectly natural.

I would be happy with both options being available, though.
I disagree. You have to consider the console user experience in relation to the existing user experience with the incumbent console. Currently, all PS4 games need to be installed to be able to be played and so an initial wait on playing new games is barely dissimilar from the current console status quo.

On the other hand, only allowing the use of external storage as a back medium without being able to play games directly from the external drive is an evidently inferior user experience to what current console owners are enjoying with PS4.

It’s PS5, so consumers will expect an upgraded UX. Of course that can’t be unilateral across all aspects of the new console and its use, but what areas do get compromised shouldn’t be significant. And given the expectation of games install sizes increasing next-gen, and the concern over limited internal storage offered, a complete lack of any ability to extend the storage of the console device would be a huge downgrade in the user experience; despite the major benefits SSDs as standard will bring to games.

If external storage is exclusively supported by a proprietary drive that matches the benefits offered by the function on current gen consoles, I see that as a net beneficial solution.

I think people are too used to overexcitement and hyperbole. Caution isn’t downplaying; more of an admission that they don’t know what to expect, and to be honest, none of us do.
You can call DF’s take many things, but “caution” it wasn’t. More... overly cynical skepticism without meaningful justification.

Assuming the worst based on tenuous logic isn’t caution. It’s unnecessary pessimism.

Yeah I can't in good conscience say one leak is accurate and another is inaccurate but I would much rather hang my hat on Kleegamefan and Andrew Reiner.
Accuracy? Of course not. Not without real official info revealed.

Saying one leak is more compelling than another, based on the credibility of the source? I think that’s just basic common sense.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,568
United Kingdom
And you base this on what?

Tea leaves?

I've seen Next-gen first hand.

Boy are you in for a surprise.
Don’t do this to us, Kleegamefan.

We got like a whole 12 months before we get to see anything first hand ourselves—-probably six before we even get any next-gen game footage.

Some of us might die in giddy anticipation before we reach the first milestone, lol.
 

Fairxchange

Member
Oct 30, 2017
801
I ... think this is a poor expectation to have. Sony's MO is high-quality cinematic games, and graphics play a large role in that. I can't see them sacrificing potential brownie points @ 30fps for 60fps. Though I'd love to be wrong because nothing looks as good as 60fps feels.
I think too many people have been conditioned by the disappointing framerates of current gen and assume the worst for the future. Based on what we know about next gen hardware, I posit that 60fps AAA titles will be a common occurrence.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
8,445
And you base this on what?

Tea leaves?

I've seen Next-gen first hand.

Boy are you in for a surprise.
would you say that the level of generational jump is comparable to the killzone shadow fall reveal?

especially those opening and ending shots where you fly through the city, still looks incredible 6 years later.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,568
United Kingdom
I think too many people have been conditioned by the disappointing framerates of current gen and assume the worst for the future. Based on what we know about next gen hardware, I posit that 60fps AAA titles will be a common occurrence.
I think of folks are expecting close to native 4K resolutions, 60fps, next-gen GFX effects as well as liberal use of raytracing effects and ML stuff... they really need to temper their expectations.

The resolution bump driven mid-gen consoles alone will pressure devs to keep much higher than 1080p, meaning 60fps will be just as common as it was thing gen.
 

Falcon511

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,687
would you say that the level of generational jump is comparable to the killzone shadow fall reveal?

especially those opening and ending shots where you fly through the city, still looks incredible 6 years later.
That was an impressive demo. I sadly watched it in 480p on my phone at the time. So I wasnt as impressed when I got to my computer.
 

Kleegamefan

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 16, 2017
980
The demo I saw had the very best real time graphics I've ever seen. And what I mean by that is it looked like a real game you can play.

Not some super polished UE4 or Unity technical demo that you would see at gdc.

To me, there was no mistaking this for a current generation on PC or console.

To be clear, in terms of scope, lighting and environment dynamics, RDR2 or TLOU2 aren't even in the same time zone as this.

and yeah, it kinda was like a Shadowfall moment to me in that it seemed totally different from what I've been used to in the previous generation.

Now granted, Framerate was maybe 25 to 30-ish and it was early, early,early. But I actually said out loud WTF when I first saw it.

Hugely impressive.
 

KOHIPEET

Member
Oct 29, 2017
665
The demo I saw had the very best real time graphics I've ever seen. And what I mean by that is it looked like a real game you can play.

Not some super polished UE4 or Unity technical demo that you would see at gdc.

To me, there was no mistaking this for a current generation on PC or console.

To be clear, in terms of scope, lighting and environment dynamics, RDR2 or TLOU2 aren't even in the same time zone as this.

and yeah, it kinda was like a Shadowfall moment to me in that it seemed totally different from what I've been used to in the previous generation.

Now granted, Framerate was maybe 25 to 30-ish and it was early, early,early. But I actually said out loud WTF when I first saw it.

Hugely impressive.
God bless you :)
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,182
Europe
The demo I saw had the very best real time graphics I've ever seen. And what I mean by that is it looked like a real game you can play.

Not some super polished UE4 or Unity technical demo that you would see at gdc.

To me, there was no mistaking this for a current generation on PC or console.

To be clear, in terms of scope, lighting and environment dynamics, RDR2 or TLOU2 aren't even in the same time zone as this.

and yeah, it kinda was like a Shadowfall moment to me in that it seemed totally different from what I've been used to in the previous generation.

Now granted, Framerate was maybe 25 to 30-ish and it was early, early,early. But I actually said out loud WTF when I first saw it.

Hugely impressive.
...most impressive :)
 

console lover

Member
Feb 19, 2018
6,094
The demo I saw had the very best real time graphics I've ever seen. And what I mean by that is it looked like a real game you can play.

Not some super polished UE4 or Unity technical demo that you would see at gdc.

To me, there was no mistaking this for a current generation on PC or console.

To be clear, in terms of scope, lighting and environment dynamics, RDR2 or TLOU2 aren't even in the same time zone as this.

and yeah, it kinda was like a Shadowfall moment to me in that it seemed totally different from what I've been used to in the previous generation.

Now granted, Framerate was maybe 25 to 30-ish and it was early, early,early. But I actually said out loud WTF when I first saw it.

Hugely impressive.
The fact that it's so early and is already at a framerate that the none "hardcore" find acceptable, is really what's most impressive considering what you've said
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,740
The demo I saw had the very best real time graphics I've ever seen. And what I mean by that is it looked like a real game you can play.

Not some super polished UE4 or Unity technical demo that you would see at gdc.

To me, there was no mistaking this for a current generation on PC or console.

To be clear, in terms of scope, lighting and environment dynamics, RDR2 or TLOU2 aren't even in the same time zone as this.

and yeah, it kinda was like a Shadowfall moment to me in that it seemed totally different from what I've been used to in the previous generation.

Now granted, Framerate was maybe 25 to 30-ish and it was early, early,early. But I actually said out loud WTF when I first saw it.

Hugely impressive.
Can't wait to see it and hearing stuff like this is why i looking forward to seeing HZD2.
I expect that to have such huge jump in everything .
 

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,451
The demo I saw had the very best real time graphics I've ever seen. And what I mean by that is it looked like a real game you can play.

Not some super polished UE4 or Unity technical demo that you would see at gdc.

To me, there was no mistaking this for a current generation on PC or console.

To be clear, in terms of scope, lighting and environment dynamics, RDR2 or TLOU2 aren't even in the same time zone as this.

and yeah, it kinda was like a Shadowfall moment to me in that it seemed totally different from what I've been used to in the previous generation.

Now granted, Framerate was maybe 25 to 30-ish and it was early, early,early. But I actually said out loud WTF when I first saw it.

Hugely impressive.
And this is just a 3rd Party/multiplat game right?

Imagine Exclusives. O_O

Although this gen is the first time 3rd party games were up there with the 1st Party games. Would yall say?
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
932
And this is just a 3rd Party/multiplat game right?

Imagine Exclusives. O_O

Although this gen is the first time 3rd party games were up there with the 1st Party games. Would yall say?
Only Red Dead 2, RE2 and AC: Odyssey. But outside of those three games nothing else has come close to matching the visual fidelity of games like GoW, Uncharted and Horizon.

Uncharted 4 is now over 3 years old and it still looks better than pretty much any game released today.

If ND and GG made TLOU2 and Horizon with a tablet CPU and and mid range 2012 GPU it makes me laugh that anyone doesn't expect the games they will make with Zen 2, RDNA2, RT and SSD to be utterly mind blowing.
 
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RevengeTaken

Banned
Aug 12, 2018
1,710
The demo I saw had the very best real time graphics I've ever seen. And what I mean by that is it looked like a real game you can play.

Not some super polished UE4 or Unity technical demo that you would see at gdc.

To me, there was no mistaking this for a current generation on PC or console.

To be clear, in terms of scope, lighting and environment dynamics, RDR2 or TLOU2 aren't even in the same time zone as this.

and yeah, it kinda was like a Shadowfall moment to me in that it seemed totally different from what I've been used to in the previous generation.

Now granted, Framerate was maybe 25 to 30-ish and it was early, early,early. But I actually said out loud WTF when I first saw it.

Hugely impressive.
And you said that was the biggest open world game ever in terms of scope? Damn!!
 

Kleegamefan

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 16, 2017
980
One thing I found really interesting was the quality of the shadows. I especially noticed there were some approx 2-3ft high bushes. When they were swaying in the wind they were casting moving shadows with fucking PERFECT detail. No shimmering or stairstepping at all.

And I am talking about a bush with maybe 75-100 branches and 100s of leaves on it!
Casting. Perfect.Fucking. Shadows.

Keep in mind this was just a random, whateverthefuck bush!

Also

The overall picture quality was astoundingly solid....like it used some super duper AA.

The game is full 2160p, but again, has no shimmering whatsoever. Just a really solid resolve to the graphics.

I'm sorry I can't articulate all this better but it's really hard to explain for some reason.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,689
One thing I found really interesting was the quality of the shadows. I especially noticed there were some approx 2-3ft high bushes. When they were swaying in the wind they were casting moving shadows with fucking PERFECT detail. No shimmering or stairstepping at all.

And I am talking about a bush with maybe 75-100 branches and 100s of leaves on it!
Casting. Perfect.Fucking. Shadows.

Keep in mind this was just a random, whateverthefuck bush!

Also

The overall picture quality was astoundingly solid....like it used some super duper AA.

The game is full 2160p, but again, has no shimmering whatsoever. Just a really solid resolve to the graphics.

I'm sorry I can't articulate all this better but it's really hard to explain for some reason.
No worries.

The shadows were probably ray traced. Didnt someone from EA gave that an example of the RT usage for next gen?
 

inguef

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
14,670
One thing I found really interesting was the quality of the shadows. I especially noticed there were some approx 2-3ft high bushes. When they were swaying in the wind they were casting moving shadows with fucking PERFECT detail. No shimmering or stairstepping at all.

And I am talking about a bush with maybe 75-100 branches and 100s of leaves on it!
Casting. Perfect.Fucking. Shadows.

Keep in mind this was just a random, whateverthefuck bush!

Also

The overall picture quality was astoundingly solid....like it used some super duper AA.

The game is full 2160p, but again, has no shimmering whatsoever. Just a really solid resolve to the graphics.

I'm sorry I can't articulate all this better but it's really hard to explain for some reason.
You are taking me back to the Gamefan days with this HYPE you are expressing. Thanks!
 

Kleegamefan

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 16, 2017
980
In the end, I really think that you guys will be way more impressed by the games than the specs.

I was.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
4,777
A 2TB version will probably cost them less than 100$ more so it's both a solution for the more core gamer who doesn't think 1TB is enough and pure profit (or at least smaller lose, depends on the PS5's BOM) for Sony. I doubt we will see just a single 1TB version on launch, at least I hope not because I'll gladly pay 600$ instead of 500$ launch day in order to have more storage.
It would be nice if they were a little more generous and gave us:

1TB console + a controller for $499
2TB + 2 controllers for $599

Chips being soldered t9 the PCB is simply cheaper. If they do it that way, that would be the reasoning ultimately. On the other hand, taking such an approach would mean the on-board storage device cannot be replaced if it becomes faulty. So the manufacturer would need to select the type of NAND flash chips supplied carefully, to ensure a given level of read write reliability for the intended use case, otherwise they’ll bear the cost of warranty repairs for a lot of effectively dead consoles.



I disagree. You have to consider the console user experience in relation to the existing user experience with the incumbent console. Currently, all PS4 games need to be installed to be able to be played and so an initial wait on playing new games is barely dissimilar from the current console status quo.

On the other hand, only allowing the use of external storage as a back medium without being able to play games directly from the external drive is an evidently inferior user experience to what current console owners are enjoying with PS4.

It’s PS5, so consumers will expect an upgraded UX. Of course that can’t be unilateral across all aspects of the new console and its use, but what areas do get compromised shouldn’t be significant. And given the expectation of games install sizes increasing next-gen, and the concern over limited internal storage offered, a complete lack of any ability to extend the storage of the console device would be a huge downgrade in the user experience; despite the major benefits SSDs as standard will bring to games.

If external storage is exclusively supported by a proprietary drive that matches the benefits offered by the function on current gen consoles, I see that as a net beneficial solution.
If you want to talk about objective downgrades to the user experience, then we also have to talk about the much higher price you would inevitably have to pay for this proprietary drive. I see going from being able to buy cheaper external HDDs to being forced to pay for expensive proprietary external SSDs to be a huge downgrade, especially when the customers you imagine having such an issue will usually either be the hardcore types who understand why the data transfer is necessary, or the casual types who don't buy enough games to have to worry about it.

I would much rather get an 8TB external HDD and occasionally have to transfer a game when I go back to it than have to pay similar amounts for a 1TB external SSD.

But I think we're at an impasse here, we simply fundamentally disagree. Shame Cerny didn't clarify how this would work in the article.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
8,445
native 4k huh?
i'd rather developers target checkerboard tbh, but if it really looks that incredible, i guess i cant really complain.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
4,777
One thing I found really interesting was the quality of the shadows. I especially noticed there were some approx 2-3ft high bushes. When they were swaying in the wind they were casting moving shadows with fucking PERFECT detail. No shimmering or stairstepping at all.

And I am talking about a bush with maybe 75-100 branches and 100s of leaves on it!
Casting. Perfect.Fucking. Shadows.

Keep in mind this was just a random, whateverthefuck bush!

Also

The overall picture quality was astoundingly solid....like it used some super duper AA.

The game is full 2160p, but again, has no shimmering whatsoever. Just a really solid resolve to the graphics.

I'm sorry I can't articulate all this better but it's really hard to explain for some reason.
You almost make it sound like it has a 'CGI effect' in terms of the flawless IQ and whatnot. I hope we get to see this thing at the reveal, but if it's as early as you said...
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,124
native 4k huh?
i'd rather developers target checkerboard tbh, but if it really looks that incredible, i guess i cant really complain.
Why resort to CB while they can do Native? Native + RT + heavy details + huge open world + massive destruction in 30 FPS is much more welcome than scamping any of those features to hit 60 FPS. After all it's a RPG and not competitive MP game.

Kleegamefan you also tlaked about massive destruction. Did this game use this chaos enigne made by Epic which is released for devs to use to any extent they want:


Or are the devs using their own destruction ssytem?
 
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