Does "other nonsense" cover PS5 having a superior GPU and SSD? Because that's also happening. It all sounds like speculation to me, in a speculation thread no less.
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Does "other nonsense" cover PS5 having a superior GPU and SSD? Because that's also happening. It all sounds like speculation to me, in a speculation thread no less.
seems like it, but the boost mode actually seems to split to a few options that seem very interesting.
you could have normal compatibility modes, as in, for ps4 compatibility, disable half the CUs and downclock to 800mhz, for ps4 pro compatibility, activate all CU and downclock to 911mhz.
but if you use boost mode, for ps4 games without a pro patch, you would need to still disable half the CU but clock on 2000MHz, and for games with a pro patch, run at full speed. that would mean much stronger boost mode this time around, even utilizing the PS5 to its max on PS4 Pro patched games.
i hope some devs will just patch their dynamic res games to remove the upper limit of the resolution scaler.
so they are not expecting price to change, if PS5 were to use these, they would have probably expected the price to go down as you would have orders of millions upon millions of these.
I'm afraid we are not getting HBM2 in $399 or even $499 console.
It's funny because I was under the impression that wide and slow was the best option for consoles, because you got the best performance per watt. I know a bigger die is more expensive, but still.
What's the allure with having HBM2? Saving space? More power efficient?
Regardless of price Matt already stated that both will have hardware RT.
It's not necessarily faster, but yeah, the low power consumption is important. Could even explain 2GHz. ;)
Thanks, just making sure as it seems most consumer products have opted for other solutions.
Well...that would make a lot of sense,i guess :)
Colbert ,i know you are skeptical but what do you make of 2GHz Navi 10 + HBM2 ? (regarding heat and power consumption)
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There might be multiple Power Crowns.
PS5 could be WBO and WBC champion
Scarlett could be IBF champion
Yes, and that's always been a raytracer, capable of reflections and all.
People are under the impression that hbm would give a significant increase to apu performance due to lower heat output.
Problem is more of that heat would be concentrated near the die compared to gddr chips. We're looking at insignificant power consumption reduction with increased cost and likely some compromises as ddr4 would be paired with the hbm.
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The people's champion would be decided by hardware sold or MAU? ;)
Speculation that goes around in circles don't make any sense.
It's the same for both MS and Sony .
This thread has a habbit when ever we just a little info people twist stuff .
They already came to that conclusion several years ago when designing the Xbox One X.
I expect them to have similar design principles on Scarlett as was seen on Scorpio, though perhaps some of their priorities changed given the hint of the die size. Prior to the Gonzalo and now Oberon leaks, I would've guessed Scarlett featured the higher clocks, but now I just can't seem to see how they could push 1800-2000 MHz and have an SOC around 380mm^2 in a console for a reasonable price - so something has to give, and my guess is they'll be clocked lower than the PS5.
if we are retaining the resolution level of the PS4 pro (4k checkerboard), then we should have around 3x the graphical complexity of the current generation.
It's not about heat output, it's about power consumption, and I remember hearing that the DDR4+HBM2 combo would actually save about 20W (so not insignificant for the GPU). And while HBM2 is usually considerably more expensive than GDDR6, DDR4 is considerably cheaper, and the rumour made several claims regarding how Sony was getting this HBM2 for cheaper than usual, so it would likely average out to having a similar price.
And I'm not sure what you mean by compromises, but if you're talking about the traditional issues with split memory like what the PS3 had, those would also be irrelevant due to HBCC making the two memory types look like a single 20GB pool to devs and managing it in the background.
Again taking what said a game director, not a game technical director told in an interview without any context maybe PS5 is able to run Control at 1080p 30 fps or 60 fps like the 2080 Ti. We have no idea what he was talking about and in the same interview, he keeps talking about 8k like it is a next-gen reality... Native 4k will not be in all game out of upscale 8k will not be a next-gen reality...
I can say the 2080 Ti is just a Quake 2 1080p 60 fps raytracing GPU...
Wide and slow is best when considering TDP. If you can figure out a way t cool the system though then smaller and faster is better.
Since when Quantic Dream target 60fps on playstation ?;) Heavy rain 30fps both os ps3 and ps4, Beyond Two Sould 30 fps on ps3 and ps4, Detroit Become Human 30fps on ps4 and ps4 pro
And even if they target 30 fps it not mean the raytracing will not be better than in Control. You don't have any context for what he said not any game or demo...
EDIT: It is like taking the 1080p talk and deducting the number of flops, the slowest part is the raytracing part maybe PS5 has less gigaray than a 2070 or 2080... Taking anything about a gamer director not particularly technically strong is not good this in not Kojima we talk about...
Sure, not much details but
tells me that we shouldn't expect heavy rt on nextgen consoles.
And more
So expect serious improvement but forget about buzz words as 8k, ray tracing, 120fps.
in general the whole fast but narrrow vs slow and wide:
for fast and narrow solution:
cheaper to produce the APU and smaller in size
in cases of close TF number, the fast but narrow will often beat the slow and wide solution.
higher pixel throughput.
more performance that can be used for the BC boost mode.
slow and wide:
lower TDP, could use that power consumption on other parts of the system, like a higher clocked CPU, or faster memory.
using cheaper cooling solution probably.
for fast and narrow solution:
cheaper to produce the APU and smaller in size
in cases of close TF number, the fast but narrow will often beat the slow and wide solution.
higher pixel throughput.
more performance that can be used for the BC boost mode.
slow and wide:
lower TDP, could use that power consumption on other parts of the system, like a higher clocked CPU, or faster memory.
using cheaper cooling solution probably.
With costs of production increasing exponentially as we go to smaller nodes, i wouldnt be surprised if sony went with a smaller chip to save some money. though i dont know how much money they would be saving with a 320mm2 gpu compared to a 380mm2 gpu.
all i know is thats very risky. sony would be giving up precious CUs in favor of a hail mary on ridiculously high clockspeeds that might not have transpired if everything didnt go according to plan.
Expect game enviornments to look photorealistic thanks to megatextures used in the Rebirth video, at least in first party games, and character models to look very CGi. not everything can be photorealistic just yet, so expect stylized graphics like in the heretic demo, but i suspect some open world games set in barren lands will come very close to the rebirth video.
i thought the sony leaks showed that HBM2 would either stack on top of the APU or right around it. and a massive cooler would sit on top of it cooling everything from the APU to the HMB2 stacks.
Fake Edit: Found it.
This post says it would go under the APU. Like how?
And again he told first-generation title... Currently all the graphics pipeline is not raytracing friendly. For example, all current shaders systems with tons of different shaders need to be redone for keeping only a few gloabl shaders because it kills intruction cache simply the worst cache miss existing... After there is some improvement they maybe have like LOD management for the BVH or data structure or ray reordering which aren't inside the first DXR implementation...
It is not meaning after some optimization and improvement you will not have some1440p title...
My analysis no studio will go 8k because this is too costly. This is 16x more than PS4...
I agree there's no chance of any new games being made at 8K, but I could see certain older games getting reconstructed 8K modes as a novelty.
I just didn't want to cut quotation, second sentence was important and:
You are being obtuse. He's talking about ray-traced next-gen games. Higher graphics mean more resources needed for ray-tracing. Are you expecting graphics to stay the same between this and next gen?
As an Xbox primary guy my expectations are tempered based on their constant messaging around frame rates and loading times. Obviously you need much more GPU to push 4K60 than 4K30 but none of the messaging currently boasts about elevating visual fidelity. I'm expecting 10 TF Navi and not falling for the 12-14 trap some are boasting about.
Read the full interview. He said raytracing will be more important than resolution. I disagree... He thinks we will see title going from 4k to 1080p or 1440p but with raytracing...
Thanks. That's about what I expected. Give me this for $399 and I'm game.
I shouldn't respond couse you didn't deserve but it's you lucky day. Nope, I expect big improvement in graphics quality but not heavy rt (I pressume nextgen consoles will be less capable in this field than rtx2070).
This is not really realtime. It is like teaser trailer of UC4. Ask to people working in rendering being in GDC 2019...
you really shouldnt be expecting more than 10TF, so i agree with this expectation. maybe MS decided to go wider but slower so it ends up getting higher like maybe 48CU @ 1500mhz which is the same as the persumed PS5 in TF number (if sony are doing 2000mhz with 36CU it makes sense that MS will be able to do something along that), maybe a little better with 1600mhz for 9.8TF. but honestly i dont expect them to be too far apart, and highly doubt any leak at this point that suggests >10TF for any side.
Can you give me quotation of this ? I've just read interview second time and only sentence that can give hope for rt with bigger resoultion than 1080p is this:
Then wait 2 years after launch. you are not getting 1-2 TB SSD, 10+ tflops GPU, Zen 2 CPU, 4k bluray drive, and ray tracing for $399.
i am sure it will be worth it, just the SSD and the CPU upgrades alone will be game changing.
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