They got this number either by using a mish-mash of metrics or just CPU power, depending on who you ask within MS itself.
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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They got this number either by using a mish-mash of metrics or just CPU power, depending on who you ask within MS itself.
Probably CPU alone or overall.
Expect things like this:
CPU: 4X over X
GPU: 2X over X
RAM: 1.5X over X
SSD: 40X over X
A cut down zen 2 would be 40 mm2. thats a 291mm2 apu with maybe 20 mm2 reserved for i/o stuff. 311mm2 max. smaller than the pro, the base ps4, base xb1 and the xb1x. not bigger.
there is also a pretty good chance that 2.0 ghz pretty much guarantees its on 7nm+ as AMD wasnt comfortable clocking their 7nm desktop GPUs at 2.0 ghz, even the anniversary edition which topped out at 1.98ghz.
and if its on 7nm+, 315mm2 will be the same as 350-360mm2 7nm apu which means it will definitely be more than 40 cus.
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No, 4 times as powerful references CPU and not GPU. Oluasc also gave you some good indicators what to expect for each system component improvement.
Don't expect Sony or MS to push the hardware as far as they can. They'll want to leave some buffer for the pro models in 3-4 years.
Simple.
It's easy for even company reps to have a slip of tongue or made a mistake when it comes to things outside their element of absolute expertise.
These kind of talking points are often embedded as part of actual product PR, and if someone says something that isn't also supported by the general PR of it, either it's a gaffe or they said something that shouldn't be revealed yet.
In Booty's point, his talking ppint was later refuted by Phil and follow up inquiries to MS.
Actually, they will be pushing it as far as they can under their constraints (budget, time, etc..). Whatever gets released late 2020 will be the foundation for the rest of the gen, so it makes more sense to get that as high as possible.
There are also going to be some decent advances that will be made in time for the mid-gen refreshes (better hardware RT, zen 5 or 6 on 3nm possibly etc), and both Sony and MS won't be shy about launching a high priced mid-gen refresh (more change on Sony's end since they played it super safe with the Pro). Not to mention, since devs know to expect these things, we most likely will get more games with modes/design that are setup to be taken advantage of by more powerful systems in the future even without patching.
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This makes no sense. Its like you don't understand why consoles like the Pro/X even exists.
What specifically makes them possible has ALWAYs been there... yup, from the 6th gen all the way up to the current-gen. Advances in fabrication processes. Thats it, nothing more nothing less. Back in the day such advancements just meant we would see slim models of the consoles. Now, in addition to slim models, they just added another SKU. One that basically would have been what they would have ended up with if the built the best console they could build at that new process as opposed t just shrinking the chip of their existing hardware.
Basically, if 3/4nm chips became a thing sometime in 2023/24, then in addition to seeing a PS5 slim, we will see a PS5pro that will at least be twice as powerful as whatever the PS5 is 2020.
If any console doesn't go all out at launch there won't be any demand for a mid gen upgrade.
It will be a bloodbath.
It will be a bloodbath.
There's a reason why mid-gens were called PS4 (something) and Xbox One (something).
They are part of the product family of the original 2013 consoles, and are inherently anchored to those releases. The important products to get right are those products. For all intents and purpose, mid-gen revisions could not exist next-gen and it would be fine.
They are part of the product family of the original 2013 consoles, and are inherently anchored to those releases. The important products to get right are those products. For all intents and purpose, mid-gen revisions could not exist next-gen and it would be fine.
Then by that definition, do Forza Horizon 3 & 4 have ray tracing as well? Both games also use a form of voxel based GI solution. Furthermore, as you said, voxelization has a very different performance trade off and scene accuracy against ray-geometry intersection. This isn't being stuck in naming semantics when the methods to achieve the end results are very different. You might as well be calling SSAO and HBAO+ the same thing then. You're seriously the first person I've seen calling voxel based GI ray tracing.
Glad to here this, good lord if AMD produced such a powerful SoC for an unknown console lol.
How does this prove PS5 is Gonzalo? There's no logical following here. This is the first time we've ever heard of Oberon also.
My question is:
If Oberon = Ariel, Gonzalo = Ariel, Flute = Ariel.... then how do we know these are all the same chip?
Has AMD ever previously used multiple codenames for the same GPU/APU?
As if not, if Ariel is the GPU codename, it's possible the three above are three different APU products with the same GPU basis.... which wouldn't point to a games console (not Sony's at least).
Oh sure. Sounds like a great machine. But I am curious if Sony's design might have been partly limited by the requirement for BC and their less abstracted approach meaning they don't have the flexibility MS do in that area so need a little hardware assistance
It feels like a 2GHz (higher than any shipping AMD Navi right now) is way high for a console and especially one that the manufacturer hasn't always been they greatest around cooling. But did BC force their hand a little? Would they have preferred more CUs?
Or is this all roughly where they were going to land anyway
Sony are using a custom GPU, I don't see it being shared with other devices. Anything that uses Ariel is most definitely something from Sony.
You are right though that I am confused how does Oberon fit in if Flute is the platform and Gonzalo is the APU, maybe I should ask komachi about this.
But I am sticking by "every product that uses Ariel is PS5 or development kit for it.
It's possible that flute/Gonzalo is the first version, and Oberon is the second one, as in 1800mhz with 40CU in Gonzalo and 2000MHz with 36CU in Oberon
If 40cu 1.8ghz is doable on 7nm (simulating gonzalo thread) probably 36cu 2ghz also
Oberon is the system codename, gonzalo is the APU, Flute the CPU and Ariel the GPU.
If we know that Oberon is PS5 so it's an almost finished product by now with all the right spec.
PS4 had 18CU. PS4 pro has 36. When running PS4 games on pro, it shuts down half the CUs and lowers the clock speed to effectively turn the GPU into a PS4 one.
This may be down to Sony having less abstraction/separation between software and hardware so games are expecting literally a PS4 GPU and may have issues if they see something 'strange'
Combine that with the tweet about clock speeds (800 for PS4; 911 for pro; presumably 2000 for PS5?) and that is leading people to speculate that means PS5 also has 36CUs. If it had more then the argument is they wouldn't need to clock so high (it is quite a lot higher than even the previous 1.8GHz rumour which itself was thought to be on the high side)
That is basing measurements on 5700. We don't know the impact other features like custom audio processing or RT hardware might have on die size
No, flute is the platform.
What I think, is Gonzalo is devkit v1 with 40CU@1800MHz and Oberon is new devkit with new cooling with 36CU@2000MHz
Marketing wise it's extremely smart to have a rumour or leak like this considering Sony hasn't barely talked about ps5 at all this year. It moves focus away from Ms and let's everybody talk about ps5. Sony isn't spending a penny on marketing and the hype is already way up.
I think all of this is intentional.
I think all of this is intentional.
Flute is the platform name. Komachi himself said that platform code names at AMD are named after instruments. I would consider your interpretation as incorrect.
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I don't understand making a distinction between "platform" and SoC.
Is the platform referring to the entire project, including drivers and software?
Is the platform referring to the entire project, including drivers and software?
There is zero mainstream traction for this rumor due to how niche it is.
No, the source of these leaks is AMD fucking up and putting private data for many different chips, not just Ariel and related in a place where komachi managed to access.
He actually held back a lot of the details to not risk themselves, but this isn't a Sony only leak, Arden is listed there for example.
An intentional leak will be more along the lines of the thurrott articles that we had in late 2018/early 2019.
Could the potential Fast and Narrow we are seeing from Sony be a by product of their initial 2019 release plan? As in they are too far along their chosen path to redesign hardware so they are now clocking the bejesus out of it in order to get more power?
It's more likely that Komachi has a source inside AMD. Which would mean AMD didn't screw up, rather someone is leaking inside info from within AMD.
No, they said that it was public in a tweet, but didnt link because they didnt want to risk themselves.
My thought, ps5 with 9.2tf navi in 2020 it would be like ps4 with 2.4tf gcn in 2013, quite impressive + now we have much faster cpu and ssd.
I'd argue it's even better, since a PS4 with 2.4TF GPU would be around the GTX 660 Ti in performance. This time around, assuming the 9.2TF rumor is true, we have the equivalent of a 5700XT or RTX 2070 on our hands, the latter of which would be a match for the GTX 670 back in 2013.
It's probably more than X2 GPU power actually. Even the 7.5TF RX 5700 (based on gaming clock) is more powerful than Vega64 which is 12.5 GCN TF. A 2Ghz 36CU GPU is more or less comparable to a 15TF GCN GPU which is 2.5X the power of the X GPU. If we get more than 36CU, I wouldn't even imagined that kind of power in my wildest dreams.
Depands how you look, we simplify here that 2x more tflops = 2x more performance but it's rarely true (bigger navi has worse perf/tf ratio).
No, that estimation is wrong.
The Vega 64 TF number is not representative of its performance because it has a major bottleneck due to 64CU usage.
We have IPC tests done to the architecture (by running games on GPUs with the same amount of CU on the same clocks), Navi is 39% faster than Polaris according to that test that would mean 9.2TF on Navi would perform like 12.8TF on Polaris, so basically 3x faster than PS4 Pro's GPU and 2.13x faster than X1X GPU.
Thx i missed the Flute tweet.
But i don't think that Gonzalo is a V1 Dev Kit and Oberon a new one, IIRC the PS4 dev kit always maintened the codename since the first leak we got.
You are also wrong here, because big navi is so inefficient, 9.3tf(on avarage) 5700xt is 1.14x faster than 12.58tf vega64 so it's like 14.34tf vega64, 9.2tf navi would be like 14tf vega 64.
5700XT is actually 19% faster in 1440p and 18% faster in 4K. So 1.18x 12.5TF is 14.75TF.
I mean the article that you posted here. At least I think that was you. That compared IPC of Navi to other architectures.
If we like big tflops number why not? ;) Comparing more reasonable to vega 56 9.2tf navi would be like 13.4tf vega 56
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