Hardware is designed with price and other factors like size in mind. That is the reason xbx is 100€ more expensive one year later than pro or why original xbone is huge as a old betamax and has power brick outside the box. Not because engineers at Sony are not capable or something
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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thats 1. what are the others?
Edit: I see you edited.
these two have nothing to do with what i said. i have seen those same documentaries. time WAS wasted when GG worked on the steampunk game for 6 months and time WAS wasted when they cancelled a SSM game that was in dev for 4 years.
Another eg is that a small team was working on a new IP at GG while the rest were working on KZ SF you can't say there was much waste time there.
Also GOW end up taking them that long since it was a total reboot and they talk about this and many other things in the GOW doc .
All of Sony teams have grown this gen .
SSM which fired people was already back to over 200 people when GOW came out so the firing of another team did not really effect the game.
When it come to new IP they cancel and redo stuff all the time that is part of doing a new IP .
It's not waste time since it part of the progress.
Truth is people talk about Sony bringing out less games this gen but don't look at how big there are .
There is a reason why MS said there going to do a mix of smaller and big game for game pass.
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You seem to think fan noise = better design. I couldnt disagree more. I would rather have a more powerful system than a quieter weak one thats $100 more expensive. Well, actually i boughtt both but i played third party games exclusively on my base ps4 despite it being louder.
Sony did mess up not once but twice with the fan noise and thats unfortunate. For some reason, they decided on a smaller more compact design and included the power brick inside each time. hopefully that changes next gen, but to say Sony doesnt design hardware well because of Disc Read Errors that plagued every DVD and CD system back in those days and because of PS4s running hot without even crashing once is lame. They gave you a system that was 50% more powerful, $100 cheaper, with GDDR5 RAM and somehow managed to fit it in a samller console. Thats great engineering. Pro was amazing for its time too. Beat its competitor a year to market and gave everyone fake4k games that look so good even DF was like sorry guys we cant tell the difference. MS despite being a year late with access to newer tech had to release their mid gen refresh for an extra $100. its a fantastic machine that can run games at 100% higher resolution despite only being 50% more powerful but lets not forget it is a year late to the party and is more expensive.
True. That was a colossal fuck up.
You are the one that brought this point up, stating that Microsoft is a software company and Sony is a hardware company.
Microsoft is as capable a hardware company as any out there today. And this is coming from someone that had to suffer two original PS1 disc read issues, a PS2 disc read problem that eventually led to the replacement of the drive, RRoD that led me to get another console (also saw one from a friend suffer the same issue), and I have seen disc read issues with the PS4.
All these companies mess up on the hardware front, and Sony is no different.
And by the way, these companies generally push tech and functionality from time to time. The PS2 emotion engine was revolutionary when it released, Microsoft having a hard drive and offering HD on the original Xbox were firsts.
Xenos and Cell were great additions to the next generation: Xenos because it was the first unified shader card ever to hit the market, Cell because it was the backbone even for the 360 CPU.
Today, both these consoles borrow a lot from the original Xbox which was essentially a combination of what could have been PC parts, with custom work not being as prevalent. But some will tell you that one company does a better job than the other even when they launch a stop gap console or have a more expensive console launching a year later with little difference in game performance (it in fact struggled to match up for the first 5 years).....I do not see it.
It all comes down to what they think is important at the time they are designing a console, and at the start of this generation it was Kinect and mutimedia functionality for Microsoft. In the mid gen refresh, it was a stop gap solution for Sony, last gen that was Blu Ray for Sony and poor design choice on Lead free solders affecting Microsoft among others.
GG went through a 6 month internal process to settle on Horizon. Then switched to their 2nd choice, worked on it for 6 months and decided nope we want to make horizon again. thats actual dev time, not pre-production time where they decide on what to do next. they had already spend months on that, if not a full year. all of this in the horizon docs.
Stig's next game had all the big leads from GOW3 and it started dev in 2010 after shipping GoW3. Their second team made an entire game in 3 years while Stig and all those leads spent years working on a new game that never saw the light of day. these are just facts, i dont know why you are taking an issue with this.
We all know the circus behing firing Amy Henning. i just find it funny that when EA cancels Amy's game or any other game from a major studio or shuts down studios, the entire internet jumps down their throat. When sony does the same, its the opposite. apologists come out. everyone literally praises them for making a good business decision and cutting costs. its hilarious. though to be fair, i see this with Nintendo and MS as well. i remember getting into a lot of trouble for criticizing MS for cancelling new IPs and shutting down studios at the start of this gen. everyone would jump down my throat for saying MS needed more first party studios and now that Phil has finally done exactly what i was asking, no one seems to have an issue with it.
Games did get bigger and bigger, but they are also making more money. Like i said above, third party studios were able to adapt because they knew they simply had to hire more people AND invest in more teams. Sony literally did the opposite at the start of this gen as i pointed out the numerous studio closings and restructurings.
Like i said though, it seems sony is investing heavily in first party again by seemingly creating multiple teams in their existing studios. I am curious to see if that means more games every year. This year we will only see 2 AAA games from them which is extremely disappointing. I really hope the order sequel rumor is true. as much as i despised the game, sony shouldve given them another shot and mandated a focus on gameplay next time around. They no longer have Ueda, From Software, Until Dawn devs or Quantic Dream working for them so that limits their second party output even more.
All i know is that I cant take another empty post launch year from Sony. Infamous and DriveClub in 12 months after launch. I dont care if they launch with Horizon and GT6, that next year is crucial, and with Naughty Dog, SSM, Insomniac, Sony Bend, Sucker Punch and Kojima all releasing their games only a year or two before the PS5 launch, i am not sure if any of these teams will be ready by 2021. Unless Sony invests and creates multiple teams.
14TF Navi GPU, 32GB RAM, 2TBSSD, Zen 2 CPU, Ray Tracing
I'd pay $599 US for that, no question.
Thank you for that. I just hope I can positively contribute to the discussion.
We may all disagree on some points and at times things can get a little heated, which can be expected with a thread that combines Sony's next console with Microsoft's next console but at the end of the day, we are all just fans of games.
In a way, I view us all as dysfunctional brothers and sisters.......sometimes we get along, sometimes we're at each other's throats, but we are all family.....bound together by the love of games.
Let me tell you, I just turned 50 years old in December and I had my first grandchild last month....yep.....grandpa K.Lee......and I have never been more optimistic or excited about games than today and you guys, in this thread at this place is a big reason why. So I have to thank you all for that.
And so, before I step off this soapbox I have to urge you to......please be excited (ha)....Next-gen is almost here and I think you guys will love what's in store.
Just know it is an obvious next generation leap, IMHO.
Have a great day, I love you all.
'Niche' in terms of this '2.5bn gamers' number.
If that is the total gaming population WW, even a 250mn unique user console population only represents 10% of that market.
So this is a big niche, but nonetheless a niche.
I can't wait for next gen .
Some people think the leap is going to be smaller because games already look so good.
But there loads things it can bring aside from just better looking gfx ( which will also improve a fair amount)
Once again my predictions on technology for consoles of the 2020s
2020 - PS5, Xbox Scarlett.
TSMC 7nm N7 - high performance/power process (not 7nm+ EUV)
single monolith APUs (Zen 2 CPU, semicustom Navi/RDNA 1.5, and (at least in Scarlett's case, hw RT cores probably on single large slices of silicon (400mm2 and up)
I would too.
2020 - PS5, Xbox Scarlett.
TSMC 7nm N7 - high performance/power process (not 7nm+ EUV)
single monolith APUs (Zen 2 CPU, semicustom Navi/RDNA 1.5, and (at least in Scarlett's case, hw RT cores probably on single large slices of silicon (400mm2 and up)
I would too.
Thanks for your input.
You have said some small but impactful stuff, and I am not gonna lie I mostly dismissed what you said about next gen being more than 9.2TF. Not cause I don't agree with you though but let's just say I have my own reservations about leaks of any kind. To me, there are creative ways to say what you know (eg, next-gen is more than 9.2 but less than 12Tf) and not endanger or out anyone and leave it to the forum to choose to believe you or not.
But what I bolded out there is the one thing you have said that actually caught my attention. Call me crazy, but I think I know what that means.
And yes we are a dysfunctional family, if I were a dev I would b making games that plays into it. COD PS vs XB online lobbies. Same with Tekken lobbies.
Shit, that would require sony to do cross-platform play.....
While i am fully in the 7nm camp, and argument has to be made for 7nm+ being used for the consoles. Especially being that its already in production this year so by the time next-gen consoles come along it would already be over a year old. This is even more likely based on talk that suggested that 7nm wasn't compatible with 7nm+. So if sony an MS go with 7nm now they would basically be stuck with it until 3/4nm comes along.
That the 360 RROD is still a topic here is really telling. Do we really need to bring up all the shortcomings all of the platform holders had in the past? I will not start it but folks this was last gen and we are talking next gen ...
That was mostly my fault... good intentions and all that just went outta hand. I apologize to everyone here, should have dropped it sooner.
Supermassive Games (Until Dawn) said that they were working on several projects for Sony.
https://gematsu.com/2018/11/supermassive-games-working-on-several-unannounced-playstation-exclusives
Yeah I don't get the relevance either but are you really surprised? :P
Congrates grandpa:) klee can you tell us what was the genre of the next-gen third-party game you've seen?
Cheers Klee and congrats on the grandchild. I think a surprising number of us in this thread are in our 40s/50s yet still argue like teenagers and get excited to see next-gen games and the next spec leak!
I'm only a 35-year-old dad but I argue like a toddler so it balances out :D
You've injected this thread with a Phoenix Down.
For months the majority of us have been clinging in to every little bit of information. The very idea that PS5 is higher than 9.2 TF is awesome
The one thing I do appreciate is you defending Andrew Reiner. There was this literal underbelly of people who claimed he was hot air, misinformed, clout chasing, etc.
In short your the 🐐
You mean the flute benchmark ? The Oberon leak taught us only the frequency (most probably for the devkits, so no actual specs of PS5).
Why do you think the PS5 dev kit will have a higher clocked (than retail) APU? PS4 didn't and IIRC neither did PS3?
I am 38 and I agree. But as they say, "men don't grow up, what changes is the size of their toys".
Ha, all true. I just want my next console deets.....Not asking much and have waiting longer than ever (stamps feet).
Well, Komachi, we're waiting!
Self proclaimed: A Good Man , An Incredible Liar
Where are the goods.
Self proclaimed: A Good Man , An Incredible Liar
Where are the goods.
Finally? You seem pressed over Team HBM. There is no need to be pressed. Cerny will explain how HBM fit into their plan soon.
Bless.
39 also. Console reveals and new game announcements are just as exciting as ever. The console war part however 👎🏿 I'm only buying a PS5 but I don't care if the next Xbox is more powerful. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the box that I do want and I didn't my understand why I should have a problem with that scenario.
Flute benchmarks was a false flag operation by Cerny to lead MS cyber espionage team down the wrong rabbit hole in order to buy time.
Because that's not Cerny design philosophy, never was for Vita, PS4 and Pro. He has always done wide and slow design. For now what's out there are devkits only (because we are far away from november 2020, those might be Navi 10 GPU, but that's not what will be inside PS5 cause Navi 10 lacks HW RT). Clocks and thermals are not representative of the retail box. Only specs (ram bandwidth and GPU tflops) should be representative of the final design.
Maybe Oberon has 32 CUs running at 2ghz (8.2 tf), who knows ? For now this Oberon leak taught us NOTHING about the actual specs of PS5.
lmao.
it would be hilarious if Phil saw the Crossaint rumor and backed off his most powerful claim.
Matt Booty: "But Phil, it's a random reddit rumor. We have the most powerful console, i assure you."
Phil Spencer: "They had goddamn crossaints in the lobby! "
After learning that Sebbi, principle engineer on unity, bought the 4x PR thing. It wouldn't shock me.
It all remains to be confirmed of course but what we do have is the previous confirmed PS4 and Pro APUs showing up in the same/similar benchmarks at retail clocks so there is precedent here. I worry now about getting that Komachi article . I've got a funny feeling he'll stay quiet.
Kleegamefan just said it would be higher than 9.2 TF, Jscrier mentioned both Scarlett / PS5 are aiming for more than Googles stadia.
Have some faith my guy.
This point is crucial. The concern of diminishing returns turning into next gen apathy is not a completely warrantless fear. To have clear differentiators in consumer experience, particularly if there is a raise in baseline MSRP, is of crucial importance.
We were told that 7nm and 7nm+ are incompatible. We know for a fact zen2 is 7nm. We know TSMC is putting out fully 7nm compatible 7nP followed by fully compatible half die shrink 6nm. Why would TSMC bother with 7nP if 7nm+ is the next upgrade and is already in production?
Did you read his follow up quotes? That "topic" and people taking his words with improper context were the reason he stopped telling us goodies.
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