That probably is 8-9 tflops console. What looks more plausible with reality
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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And how much is arden if this is supposed to be less fast in June? If this is 40 CU at 2Ghz PS5 can be 10,24 Tflops for example.
Can 40 CUs + 8C Zen2 + memory controllers/whatnot fit into 300mm2 APU...?
A zen 2 with quarter size L3 cache and 40 CU GPU, this can fit. After maybe this not exactly 300 mm2 but a little more and less than 310 mm2
PS3 was almost 500mm^2 on first revision @90nm:
Console Die Sizes
CPU (mm^2) GPU (mm^2) Process (nm)Microsoft Xbox CPU GPU Process Transistors CPU1/NV2A1 90 128 180/150 28M/60M Xbox 360 CPU GPU EDRAM Process Transistors Xenon/Zephyr 176 182 80 90/90/90 165M/232M/100M...
forum.beyond3d.com
Not sure why is this in Zen 3/Milan thread.
OP mention Anubis because user "tomsawyer" asked him about Anubis i think.
There is no magic around this, the minimum you will need for a 40CU GPU + 8C zen 2 CPU is at least around ~320mm2. And for 48Cu it would be around 350mm2.
So if the PS5 APU is now supposedly around 300mm2, then it means we are looking at 36CU APU and they will still have to disable like 4CU so we end up with 32 active.
That will flat out be the dumbest thing in the world that I think sony could do. And I can't think of one reason they would do it even if they are pushing for 2Ghz that will only net them like 8TF.
just makes absolutely zero sense.
ah my bad, must have pulled the super slim number.PS3 was almost 500mm^2 on first revision @90nm:
Console Die Sizes
CPU (mm^2) GPU (mm^2) Process (nm)Microsoft Xbox CPU GPU Process Transistors CPU1/NV2A1 90 128 180/150 28M/60M Xbox 360 CPU GPU EDRAM Process Transistors Xenon/Zephyr 176 182 80 90/90/90 165M/232M/100M...
This 300²mm Talk realy makes me feel uncomfortable...
I could not accept an 8Tf PS5 .... pls someone make it go away by using some expert knowledge :/
I could not accept an 8Tf PS5 .... pls someone make it go away by using some expert knowledge :/
My biggest concern next gen is Sony shying away from blockbuster exclusives. Clearly Sony was directly competing with Xbox in the PS360 gen for the hottest exclusives. This resulted in Sony buying up some great studios and making some amazing games. This carried well into the PS4, but Xbox stopped putting up the fight, focusing more on services than on exclusives (not say Gears and Forza Horizon arent incredible in their own right).
That to me could take the heat off of Sony to create AMAZING games and they wont feel as much pressure to created top-of-the-line exclusive games. At this point their biggest exclusive competition is with Nintendo, but the Switch isnt a direct competitor which further muddles the need to create big exclusives.
I just really like exclusive games whether they come from Sony, MS, or Nintendo. These games basically need to bring their A game because they dont have the financial benefit of being on other consoles. These are either showstoppers (God of War, BotW, Forza Horizon) or games that give a unique flair to that console (Bloodborne, Octopath Traveler, State of Decay). To me they can be the best of gaming and I would hate for that need to outdo each other in terms of softweare to go away.
I am far more interested in what Sony's response to Breath of the Wild will be than what services they will be providing to beat out MS.
That to me could take the heat off of Sony to create AMAZING games and they wont feel as much pressure to created top-of-the-line exclusive games. At this point their biggest exclusive competition is with Nintendo, but the Switch isnt a direct competitor which further muddles the need to create big exclusives.
I just really like exclusive games whether they come from Sony, MS, or Nintendo. These games basically need to bring their A game because they dont have the financial benefit of being on other consoles. These are either showstoppers (God of War, BotW, Forza Horizon) or games that give a unique flair to that console (Bloodborne, Octopath Traveler, State of Decay). To me they can be the best of gaming and I would hate for that need to outdo each other in terms of softweare to go away.
I am far more interested in what Sony's response to Breath of the Wild will be than what services they will be providing to beat out MS.
PS3 - GPU 258mm^2 + CPU 235mm^2 = 493mm^2
360 - GPU (with EDRAM) 262mm^2 + CPU 176mm^2 = 438mm^2
PS4 - APU - 348mm^2
One - APU - 363mm^2
Pro - APU - 320mm^2
X - APU - 360mm^2
Fuck i read that ptt link myself... now iam even more uncomfortable...
If they know what they Talk about PS5 realy seems to be a 8Tf machine...
And waht about those RT Cores? They would also eat up space on that 300²mm, right?!
If they know what they Talk about PS5 realy seems to be a 8Tf machine...
And waht about those RT Cores? They would also eat up space on that 300²mm, right?!
You have absolutely nothing to worry about (even though he's not with them anymore, I think that this is the direction they're going in):
Sony's Shawn Layden wants fewer, bigger PlayStation games
Agree, that's one small die. It will also be really sad to see such a small die, even smaller than the Pro which had a shrunk 3-year-old Jaguar.
But now we are back to a super reliable person on this forum saying the difference between ps5 and nextbox is less than difference between PS4 and of X1. So things aren't adding up, either one or the is wrong OR Microsoft is doing some real funky stuff on the die like they did with X1. Or ps5 is doing something funky to shrink the die needed.
Edit: simplest solution is that one of these insider things is wrong. And I have no reason to believe that kleegamefan is wrong or has innacurate info. Another possible scenario, die size for ps5 is final and diesize for nextbox is devkit?
Edit: simplest solution is that one of these insider things is wrong. And I have no reason to believe that kleegamefan is wrong or has innacurate info. Another possible scenario, die size for ps5 is final and diesize for nextbox is devkit?
The original post does not say any thing about the size of the APU. There is a post written by someone else that is claiming sizes with zero actual evidence or proof - and most likely regurgitated from here.
How is the PS4 Pro APU smaller than the PS4 yet the console itself is almost twice as big and twice as heavy as the PS4? Also how XB O X APU the biggest yet the final console the smallest among all?
No way the PS5 die size will be the smallest if it is the strongest console.
From what it is told on the chinese forum, production of Arden is more advanced than Oberon, Oberon is only on the early verification step. One guy gives is true identity, another guy is a random chinese poster.
This is the same poster.
I am not sure it is that useful to cite a guy in Shawn Layden that clearly left under some not good conditions for whatever reason given that he and Sony have still not added anything else to the record after the terse 9/30 tweet about his departure. Of course I would expect that Sony will push exclusives in a big way, but Layden's prior vision as articulated in that article may or may not be fully in line with Jim Ryan's vision currently.
Doesn't that confuse things more? It's not like the ps5 die is going to grow. Honestly if klee hadn't said they were so similiar this would make more sense lol
Are we sure it's a good idea to take their die size figures?
You can have a larger die but the same GPU power. For instance, one company removed more cache from the CPU or one of them has a wider bus size. The easiest example is the One vs PS4. PS4 was more powerful and had more CUs but the One had a bigger and more expensive die because of the ESRAM.
Die size isn't really a metric which converts into a console's size, weight or noise; too many variables :)
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Y'all should stop worrying about power. Matt said both will be lit just like he said PS5 had ray tracing hardware.
Yeah I would throw out anything Layden said. I feel pretty certain he is gone because his vision clashed with Ryan's.
Yeah I would throw out anything Layden said. I feel pretty certain he is gone because his vision clashed with Ryan's.
So could this be essentially "covered" by ps5 haven't quartered the cache and a smaller bus whilst Xbox has full cache and wider bus?
Like always this is the internet, this is a rumor. This is not like Arden and Oberon were not known codename. The only rumor I trust comes from my friend, some benchmark and codename from Komachi, APISAK and Matt and Klee rumor. And Matt confirms today the two consoles' performance are nearly the same and it seems the spec is finalized.
If Sony can do a 10+Tflops console + RT with 300 mm2 die size and 8 cores 16 threads Zen 2, this is cool and the console will cost 400 dollars but it seems not very realistic.
Ive probably been out of the loop but would a 9TF RDNA = 11.25TF GCN
Factor in the rest like Zen, SSD, memory, RT and optimizations and wouldnt that be an impressive machine able to poop 4K graphics @30fps?
Or am I way off?
Plus thats factoring in what Ill call the hype factor. Which is we always overestimate what well get and underestimte what can be done with it..
Factor in the rest like Zen, SSD, memory, RT and optimizations and wouldnt that be an impressive machine able to poop 4K graphics @30fps?
Or am I way off?
Plus thats factoring in what Ill call the hype factor. Which is we always overestimate what well get and underestimte what can be done with it..
this is a good question lol.
i think the x1x vapor chamber cooling might not require a big heatsink or a large fan. but i dont know for sure.
the x1x had more ram too.
Matt and it seems specs are now final
Klee again
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
The selective install stuff is nice. I'm curious if this is there way of prepping us for a low storage SSD future.
www.resetera.com
Generally speaking - yes. 320-bit bus (which we saw in the Scarlett CGI E3 video) will cost about 20mm^2 extra die space vs a 256-bit bus (which we saw in the Flute leak) and I saw people here talk about gaining ~30mm^2 from reducing the cache so the total size difference can be ~50mm^2.
But there are too many variables, who knows what kind of custom stuff Sony and Microsoft have in their APUs. Who knew before last gen was announced that MS will spend so much die space on ESRAM. Just take a look at how much die space they've used (SRAM on the right side of the die):
If you had a leak last gen that told you Xbox is going to have a 363mm^2 APU and PS4 will have 348mm^2 APU you would have immediately assumed that Xbox is going to be more powerful. You would have never guessed that the PS4 is both smaller in die size and 40% more powerful.
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Interesting, thank you. Possibly found the point of difference in die size, possibly. Now I've been hearing conflicting things about th cache. Some have said it's a big deal if one is full zen 2 and the other is cut down. Others have said that much cache (as would be on full zen2) would be unnecessary on a consoleGenerally speaking - yes. 320-bit bus (which we saw in the Scarlett CGI E3 video) will cost about 20mm^2 extra die space vs a 256-bit bus (which we saw in the Flute leak) and I saw people here talk about gaining ~30mm^2 from reducing the cache so the total size difference can be ~50mm^2.
But there are too many variables, who knows what kind of custom stuff Sony and Microsoft have in their APUs. Who knew before last gen was announced that MS will spend so much die space on ESRAM. Just take a look at how much die space they've used (SRAM on the right side of the die):
If you had a leak last gen that told you Xbox is going to have a 363mm^2 APU and PS4 will have 348mm^2 APU you would have immidiatly assumed that Xbox is going to be more powerful. You would have never guessed that the PS4 is both smaller in die size and 40% more powerful.
Do you still stand by the statement Ps5 has the slight edge?
He does not have new information maybe this thing change since june.
Honestly? I don't know what kind of impact the removal of the cache will have on console gaming, if one of them left it in (or just more of it) then it probably has benefits, MS and Sony have great engineers that wouldn't leave it in and waste 30mm^2 just for the fun of it :)
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It is not the engineers.. the Problem are as always the blacksuits..
Fuck them if they are purposely exchange the jaguar bottleneck with the bottleneck of beeing right from the start classified as entry Level hardware in regards of PC Gaming..
Right with PS5 will ship also the next Set of Navi Desktop GPUs.
They just cant do this again... they just cant..
Fuck them if they are purposely exchange the jaguar bottleneck with the bottleneck of beeing right from the start classified as entry Level hardware in regards of PC Gaming..
Right with PS5 will ship also the next Set of Navi Desktop GPUs.
They just cant do this again... they just cant..
I would like to think the exclusives makes them money. And making money is all the incentive they would need.
If you believe the Oberon leak the other Oberon leak by Komachi show a frequency of 2 GHz for Oberon and two other frequencies one like Pro 911 Mhz and other like base PS4 800 Mhz. I don't believe it too. Just wait and see.
Two words... Vapor Chamber.
8TF $399 PS5 vs 11TF $499 Scarlet confirmed!!
Alright folks, pack it up. MS has taken this one.
Actually, MS will release a $349 6TF machine and a $599 12 TF Machine, early 2020
something something sony doomed something.
I wonder how sony feels knowing they are going into the new-gen conceding a near 50% power advantage to MS. Obviously they must have ot seen the effect that had on the XB1 and all those DF/Review videos for the first 4 years of this gen.
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