Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air

[Pheonix]

New theory on Oberon 300mm2!!!!!

Oberon is just the GPU and IO chip confirmed!!!! CPU is it's on separate chip connected via the fabric of infinity!!!!

Separating the CPU from the GPU die is how they are able to push GPU clocks to 2Ghz.

It has been right there looking at us all this time.

 

[SharpX68K]

Edit. Arghh, this was supposed to be an entirely *different*!post.

 

[Gamer17]

New theory on Oberon 300mm2!!!!!

Oberon is just the GPU and IO chip confirmed!!!! CPU is it's on separate chip connected via the fabric of infinity!!!!

Separating the CPU from the GPU die is how they are able to push GPU clocks to 2Ghz.

It has been right there looking at us all this time.

Click to shrink...

In the dev kit pics we can assume cpu is on one side of the V and gpu is on the other side of V ;) haha

 

[anexanhume]

New theory on Oberon 300mm2!!!!!

Oberon is just the GPU and IO chip confirmed!!!! CPU is it's on separate chip connected via the fabric of infinity!!!!

Separating the CPU from the GPU die is how they are able to push GPU clocks to 2Ghz.

It has been right there looking at us all this time.

Click to shrink...

I know this is facetiousness, but that's a completely valid solution. A 300mm GPU would likely be 48CU.

 

[Pheonix]

In the dev kit pics we can assume cpu is on one side of the V and gpu is on the other side of V ;) haha

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Exactly!!!! Didn't anyone think it strange why the dev kits has two enormous humps?

 

[Deleted member 18951]

Should go down a treat with agreements in here, lol.



Edit, I didnt see the already huge thread on the first page, double lol

 

[modiz]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/possible-psvr2-patents-emerge-inside-out-tracking-wireless.145944/

Cameras on the psvr2 and the controller, this matches what ruthenic cookie said

 

[Lokimaster]

you need to see this

So it's complicated and we really don't know the situation

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i was finished with this convo yesterday, please don't tag me in anything about it again.

great news about specs tho!
$499 incoming!

 

[BreakAtmo]

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This sounds like what I was thinking about the other day - IOT with the camera as an optional extra for improved tracking. Or am I just reading it wrong?

 

[sleepr]

New theory on Oberon 300mm2!!!!!

Oberon is just the GPU and IO chip confirmed!!!! CPU is it's on separate chip connected via the fabric of infinity!!!!

Separating the CPU from the GPU die is how they are able to push GPU clocks to 2Ghz.

It has been right there looking at us all this time.

Click to shrink...

Sounds good but I doubt it. Lisa from AMD and the wired articles talk about a custom chip so that sort of hints at an APU?

 

[sncvsrtoip]

I know this is facetiousness, but that's a completely valid solution. A 300mm GPU would likely be 48CU.

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https://gamingbolt.com/ps5-and-next-xbox-will-likely-have-8-to-12gb-of-ram-says-hellpoint-dev

Very old rumour that ps5 will have separated vram

 

[anexanhume]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/possible-psvr2-patents-emerge-inside-out-tracking-wireless.145944/

Cameras on the psvr2 and the controller, this matches what ruthenic cookie said

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Nope. The image depicts a breakout/transmission box on top of the console, which he specifically said wasn't required.

 

[SharpX68K]

Guys, I've been thinking about this ever since Google announced Stadia.

Whatever performance level PS5 and Scarlett reach (10-12 TF, 20-24 GB RAM, 8c/16t Zen 2 CPU at 3.2 GHz, ultra fast SSDs and modestly capable HW accelerated raytracing —

—Will Sony and or Microsoft announce and plan for single instance (1 player) games to take advantage of multi PS5//Scarlett racks in the cloud, games that could only run on a full blade of say, 4x PS5 / 4x Scarlett.

i.e. the only way to experience Gran Turismo 7 at 8K, 120fps with raytracing. Using 8 or 16 PS5s as a showpiece and make it available to PS Plus subscribers to play over the PSN/Azure Cloud.

Again, the higher the base spec for both consoles next year the better. Counting on 10+ RDNA TF and 20 GB RAM.


Imagine the kind of Final Fantasy games Square Enix could make using multiple PS5s and Scarletts in the cloud.Look at those SE FF tech demos from 2015 or so, using 4 GTX Titan Maxwell cards. It was like 28 TFlops.

I think cloud-based teams of PS5s and Scarletts could easily surpass that benchmark, become a way to make the most awesome games of the 2020s. PCs will also scale in the cloud. Everyone wins. Devs get to do the most ambitious shit of their dreams.

It could also help to EXTEND this next gen by a few years beyond what is expected (7yr gen) so that if PS5?and Scarlett successor are not ready in 2027 or 2028, but 2029/2030 instead.

Then imagine games running on multiple mid gen upgrade PS5 Pro//Scarlett XX hardware, and games built around that going on the cloud in 2028, as we might have a long wait on 10th gen, and there will be a 10th gen traditional physical console hardware cycle. It's a question of will there be an 11gen cycle, or will the cloud and streaming have become dominant. That's a question for the 2030s, not the 2020s.

I don't see why this could not become reality by the muddle of this next decade, in 5 or 6 years from now. At least from a technical perspective.

The only thing that will determine if games that need multi-Tens of TFLOPs to run, or not, is if it makes sense from a BUSINESS perspective.

 

[modiz]

Nope. The image depicts a breakout/transmission box on top of the console, which he specifically said wasn't required.

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It doesnt need a box though.
The breakout box was used for 3D audio so this might just be for the patent because the ps4 uses one.
If this is a transmission box, i have a second explanation:
One of the developers on psvr hardware who has talked about the next generation psvr, has mentioned that in the future there might be a wired and wireless SKUs, maybe whoever gave ruthenic the information only had the wired SKU back then, and for that one you dont need any transmission box.

 

[anexanhume]

It doesnt need a box though.
The breakout box was used for 3D audio so this might just be for the patent because the ps4 uses one.
If this is a transmission box, i have a second explanation:
One of the developers on psvr hardware who has talked about the next generation psvr, has mentioned that in the future there might be a wired and wireless SKUs, maybe whoever gave ruthenic the information only had the wired SKU back then, and for that one you dont need any transmission box.

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Multiple SKUs is possible. A wired SKU with cameras on the rear of the headset sounds like a hazard nightmare.

And that's not just a random dev. That's essentially one of the heads of their VR department.

 

[Pheonix]

Should go down a treat with agreements in here, lol.



Edit, I didnt see the already huge thread on the first page, double lol

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Well that was a lot of nothing.

 

[modiz]

Multiple SKUs is possible. A wired SKU with cameras on the rear of the headset sounds like a hazard nightmare.

And that's not just a random dev. That's essentially one of the heads of their VR department.

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I thought that was their position, but i wasnt 100% sure.

 

[Thera]

Will Sony and or Microsoft announce and plan for single instance (1 player) games to take advantage of multi PS5//Scarlett racks in the cloud

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No, the all cost of it is insane.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Bc is confirmed, this is full complete Bc,

For example what ever disc or download, all ps4 games will work. There won't be any compatibility list. This is what they holding off until the team confirm it.

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From what I understand, this is actually a big big deal to them and took years to get right.

 

[uncleniccius]

From what I understand, this is actually a big big deal to them and took years to get right.

Click to shrink...

Sorry to bother with questions but any news on enhancements for ps4 games? Done as a patch like on pro? And is it pro being emulated rather than normal ps4?

 

[Pheonix]

Sorry to bother with questions but any news on enhancements for ps4 games? Done as a patch like on pro? And is it pro being emulated rather than normal ps4?

Click to shrink...

I would believe this goes without saying. And we will have a mixture of both. Games that are naturally enhanced via some sort of boost ode, and games that are further enhanced via a patch. I expect the latter to be fewer and probably only tied to some of their biggest first-party games.

It would be a big oversight and wasted goodwill and marketing if they didn't do that.

____________________________

Kleegamefan usually the high point of my week is watching the next Arsenal game, now with the international break, all I have got is waiting for you to take that trip of yours and hopefully come back with some goods. You are my new Arsenal FC lol.

 

[anexanhume]

From what I understand, this is actually a big big deal to them and took years to get right.

Click to shrink...

This is fascinating to me. I hope we hear more about it.

 

[VX1]

This is fascinating to me. I hope we hear more about it.

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Indeed.It seems full BC with PS4 is much more complicated for Sony that many of us thought.

 

[SeanMN]

I know this is facetiousness, but that's a completely valid solution. A 300mm GPU would likely be 48CU.

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By my estimation, a GPU with 48 total CUs in a similar configuration to the 5700XT would be about 265-270 mm2. The dual CUs themselves are quite small, 3.38 mm2 (as measured by DukeBlueBall in one of the prior threads, based on the 5700 die shot).

I think the "300 mm2" number attributed to PS5 is a simplification (if even true). Again, if based on real facts, I'd bet it's more like 300-320mm2 ballpark range. I think there's room for 44 or maybe even 48 total CUs (40 or 44 active respectively) and an 8 core Zen 2 with quartered cache in this size range. I remain optimistic.

 

[modiz]

By my estimation, a GPU with 48 total CUs in a similar configuration to the 5700XT would be about 265-270 mm2. The dual CUs themselves are quite small, 3.38 mm2 (as measured by DukeBlueBall in one of the prior threads, based on the 5700 die shot).

I think the "300 mm2" number attributed to PS5 is a simplification (if even true). Again, if based on real facts, I'd bet it's more like 300-320mm2 ballpark range. I think there's room for 44 or maybe even 48 total CUs (40 or 44 active respectively) and an 8 core Zen 2 with quartered cache in this size range. I remain optimistic.

Click to shrink...

Need to remember hardware ray tracing space used.
I still dont trust that 300mm2 figure though.

 

[AegonSnake]

I think many developers would call monster a console with 9tf navi, just sayin :d But if ps5 die is 300mm maybe we should look lees into navi 10/12 and more into navi14... :-)

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yep Navi 14 is 150w and fits the profile of a $399 150w console like the base ps4 or ps4 pro. that means an awesome 5.2 rdna tflops in our next gen consoles. team 5 tflops returns!!!

i think this is the reason why we need to stop looking at current gen navi cards and especially their tdp to predict next gen gpus.

i also think the new 5500 cards pretty much confirm that the ps5 and scarlett will be 7nm+. there is no way we are going to get a 150w 5.2 tflops card. or a 8 tflops 36 cu 180w 5700. unless of course we are looking at 200-225w consoles.

 

[Pheonix]

Need to remember hardware ray tracing space used.
I still dont trust that 300mm2 figure though.

Click to shrink...

Funny enough, why I don't trust it is actually because of the 350mm2 MS chip sitting right next to it. Unless MS is going with the full CPU cache that makes no sense to me. And even if they were it wouldn't make for such a large discrepancy. And both these chips are coming out within a month of each other.

yep Navi 14 is 150w and fits the profile of a $399 150w console like the base ps4 or ps4 pro. that means an awesome 5.2 rdna tflops in our next gen consoles. team 5 tflops returns!!!

i think this is the reason why we need to stop looking at current gen navi cards and especially their tdp to predict next gen gpus.

i also think the new 5500 cards pretty much confirm that the ps5 and scarlett will be 7nm+. there is no way we are going to get a 150w 5.2 tflops card. or a 8 tflops 36 cu 180w 5700. unless of course we are looking at 200-225w consoles.

Click to shrink...

You should be looking more at the chips actual power draw and not the draw of the entire card.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Sorry to bother with questions but any news on enhancements for ps4 games? Done as a patch like on pro? And is it pro being emulated rather than normal ps4?

Click to shrink...

I don't know

 

[Kleegamefan]

This is fascinating to me. I hope we hear more about it.

Click to shrink...

Yeah. PlayStation 5 was originally planned to come out next month. The software engineering needed to get BC 101% right was not progressing as fast as they needed.

It is my belief that this is one of (but not the only) reasons Sony delayed PlayStation 5 to holiday 2020.

They made this change in 2017.

 

[anexanhume]

By my estimation, a GPU with 48 total CUs in a similar configuration to the 5700XT would be about 265-270 mm2. The dual CUs themselves are quite small, 3.38 mm2 (as measured by DukeBlueBall in one of the prior threads, based on the 5700 die shot).

I think the "300 mm2" number attributed to PS5 is a simplification (if even true). Again, if based on real facts, I'd bet it's more like 300-320mm2 ballpark range. I think there's room for 44 or maybe even 48 total CUs (40 or 44 active respectively) and an 8 core Zen 2 with quartered cache in this size range. I remain optimistic.

Click to shrink...

I personally think most of the die size leaks are BS. We got nothing of the sort for any previous gens, nor do we get that info for CPU/GPUs as leaks. We're getting those "leaks" because of the community's focus on die size. My two cents.

 

[Pheonix]

I personally think most of the die size leaks are BS. We got nothing of the sort for any previous gens, nor do we get that info for CPU/GPUs as leaks. We're getting those "leaks" because of the community's focus on die size. My two cents.

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I agree. Kinda telling when you consider that the only times we ever see or hear about die sie leaks is with regards to consoles. Even more telling when you consider that with consoles tha will be the hardest things to leak.

Are devs opening up their dev kits and measuring dies? I was just really enjoying the 300mm2 meltdowns lol.

 

[VX1]

From Richard:

"It's interesting to note that Sony still isn't talking much about the PS5's GPU or CPU (though eight cores and 16 threads are now officially confirmed), but is very keen indeed to talk more about the SSD and why it is important. Sony believes that its bespoke solution is faster than any PC equivalent, and although not confirmed, I wouldn't be surprised to see deeper integration at the hardware level, with the solid-state storage modules integrated into the mainboard itself."

"It's an essential feature as I strongly suspect that the kind of expanded storage options we have on current generation machines won't be available on PS5 or indeed Project Scarlett - external storage is likely not fast enough, nor is the USB standard wide enough in bandwidth terms to match the consoles' bespoke SSD solutions, relegating it to back-up status only. Sony isn't taking about how much SSD space we'll get, but 1TB seems likely - akin to today's PS4 Pro or Xbox One X - but having to accommodate games that will be delivered on 100GB Blu-ray, a doubling of the standard disc size for titles of this generation."

"Perhaps this is wish fulfilment on my behalf, but I really hope to see a robust solution for PlayStation 5 that avoids the 'jet engine' effect that kicks in on many examples of PS4 and PS4 Pro hardware. An emphasis on innovative cooling also opens the door to higher processor frequencies - and may possibly help to put some of the leaked 'Gonzalo' AMD processor specsinto context - particularly the very, very high GPU core clocks"

"However, the graphics side of the equation remains unknown. The teraflop war is irrelevant now, as we saw in our apples-to-apples GCN vs RDNA compute face-off, not to mention how key Xbox One X titles have stacked up against PS4 Pro equivalents. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised to see Mark Cerny double down on the philosophy seen in the Pro, with innovative solutions and smart design just as important as raw shader count, if not more so. As a consequence of this, a smaller processor means a more cost-efficient box - and Sony got the balance just right between performance and build cost with PS4."

 

[SeanMN]

Funny enough, why I don't trust it is actually because of the 350mm2 MS chip sitting right next to it. Unless MS is going with the full CPU cache that makes no sense to me. And even if they were it wouldn't make for such a large discrepancy. And both these chips are coming out within a month of each other.

Click to shrink...

Disregarding those die size leaks, many have been expecting a large SOC for Scarlett for months now. From the E3 teaser, the SOC was estimated to be 360-380 mm2. While some have disregarded this information, given Xbox's recent history with the accuracy of their Scorpio teaser, I'm inclined to accept it. And that is inline with the Xbox One and the 1X die sizes. I'd say the more out of the ordinary thing would be for Scarlett's SOC to be significantly smaller

There's many reason to explain the existence of a larger SOC: larger CPU cache, larger memory bus, more CUs, integration of other processing components (AI for example).

And, even if Scarlett has a larger SOC, there's a definite possibility PS5 is still more powerful by focusing on speed - which seems to be the case given Oberons clocks.

I personally think most of the die size leaks are BS. We got nothing of the sort for any previous gens, nor do we get that info for CPU/GPUs as leaks. We're getting those "leaks" because of the community's focus on die size. My two cents.

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That's definitely a reasonable analysis, I'm not sold on the die size leaks either. Though, as I stated above, I do generally think the Scarlett SOC render will be accurate.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Indeed.It seems full BC with PS4 is much more complicated for Sony that many of us thought.

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Some of us appreciated this and have been saying it all along.

I personally think most of the die size leaks are BS. We got nothing of the sort for any previous gens, nor do we get that info for CPU/GPUs as leaks. We're getting those "leaks" because of the community's focus on die size. My two cents.

Click to shrink...

Agreed.

New theory on Oberon 300mm2!!!!!

Oberon is just the GPU and IO chip confirmed!!!! CPU is it's on separate chip connected via the fabric of infinity!!!!

Separating the CPU from the GPU die is how they are able to push GPU clocks to 2Ghz.

It has been right there looking at us all this time.

Click to shrink...

#TeamChiplets is back baby!

#TeamHBM2E is also alive and recruiting for new members.

 

[AegonSnake]

Funny enough, why I don't trust it is actually because of the 350mm2 MS chip sitting right next to it. Unless MS is going with the full CPU cache that makes no sense to me. And even if they were it wouldn't make for such a large discrepancy. And both these chips are coming out within a month of each other.

You should be looking more at the chips actual power draw and not the draw of the entire card.

Click to shrink...

i am simply applying the same logic we used to apply when comparing the power draw of the 580 to the x1x. That was a 180w gpu that ms was able to get in a 170w console. same goes for the 480 and the pro which both topped out at 150w.

if their power budget is 150w and they are using RDNA1 cards, then by that logic we are looking at a 5.2 tflops 5500. Of course i dont believe this, but just following that logic through, we have to assume thats the best we can do at that price point and TDP.

I think a 7nm+, 40+ CUs and 200-225w console is pretty much guaranteed at this point because the 5500 and 5700 cards are very power hungry. I also dont see why Sony would design a 300mm2 APU. Why take that risk? they must have started with at least a 350mm2 chip on 7nm and gone from there.

 

[VX1]

Yeah. PlayStation 5 was originally planned to come out next month. The software engineering needed to get BC 101% right was not progressing as fast as they needed.

It is my belief that this is one of (but not the only) reasons Sony delayed PlayStation 5 to holiday 2020.

They made this change in 2017.

Click to shrink...

:(

Oh well... :)

cc: BitsandBytes

 

[jroc74]

Yeah. PlayStation 5 was originally planned to come out next month. The software engineering needed to get BC 101% right was not progressing as fast as they needed.

It is my belief that this is one of (but not the only) reasons Sony delayed PlayStation 5 to holiday 2020.

They made this change in 2017.

Click to shrink...

So....this means us that were Team2019 are redeemed....?

 

[modiz]

I personally think most of the die size leaks are BS. We got nothing of the sort for any previous gens, nor do we get that info for CPU/GPUs as leaks. We're getting those "leaks" because of the community's focus on die size. My two cents.

Click to shrink...

Very much this. why would devs be told the die size, just tell them the actual specs that they need.

 

[Deleted member 5764]

I'm really curious to see how our current extended HDD's are handled for next-gen systems. Seems like the pipe will definitely be too slow to play games off of them, but what's the solution?

Will Sony and Microsoft let us still use external drives just for backup, with the ability to move games between external and internal as we want to play them? That makes the most sense to me, as I know plenty of people who have 2TB and up external drives right now.

I just have to wonder how long said transfer will take on a game by game basis.

 

[poklane]

I know the answer will probably be "none", but what are the chances these things will get SSD's bigger than 1TB? Seeing games already ballooning past 100GB on current-gen consoles I can only imagine how insanely big next-gen games will be in terms of file size, and with a 1TB SDD I'm fearing we'll be able to install 5-6 games before it's full.

 

[modiz]

I know the answer will probably be "none", but what are the chances these things will get SSD's bigger than 1TB? Seeing games already ballooning past 100GB on current-gen consoles I can only imagine how insanely big next-gen games will be in terms of file size, and with a 1TB SDD I'm fearing we'll be able to install 5-6 games before it's full.

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I believe it will be 2TB, but most will say 1TB

 

[Peckmore]

I'm really curious to see how our current extended HDD's are handled for next-gen systems. Seems like the pipe will definitely be too slow to play games off of them, but what's the solution?

Will Sony and Microsoft let us still use external drives just for backup, with the ability to move games between external and internal as we want to play them? That makes the most sense to me, as I know plenty of people who have 2TB and up external drives right now.

I just have to wonder how long said transfer will take on a game by game basis.

Click to shrink...

I wonder if they'll try and automate the process as much as possible, making it almost fool-proof? Perhaps something like the first time you play a game that isn't on the SSD (e.g., an external drive) it is copied to the SSD, but uses the "fast play" approach to begin the game as soon as possible whilst the rest of the data copies. Then, every time you play that game from then on, it plays from the SSD.

The same thing could then happen when you play your next game, and each subsequent game until the SSD is full. At which point, when you play your next game that isn't on the SSD, one (or more) of the games on the SSD that you played least recently gets deleted to make space. Effectively, the SSD becomes a cache for the games you play, and it stores as many of your recent games as possible, but handles all of the copying for you automatically. I wonder if something like that might be the simplest approach?

For copying speeds, most drives nowadays can handle 100MB/s so a 100GB game would take roughly 20 minutes to copy I think? But that would only happen the first time you played the game (when not on SSD), and with fast-play you could probably be playing after the first few minutes?

 

[SeanMN]

I'm really curious to see how our current extended HDD's are handled for next-gen systems. Seems like the pipe will definitely be too slow to play games off of them, but what's the solution?

Will Sony and Microsoft let us still use external drives just for backup, with the ability to move games between external and internal as we want to play them? That makes the most sense to me, as I know plenty of people who have 2TB and up external drives right now.

I just have to wonder how long said transfer will take on a game by game basis.

Click to shrink...

I've got an 8TB external drive halfway full, and I'd like to be able to plug that into my next gen console and it just work, with the system being able to manage game storage so I can just play and not worry about where a game is stored, or having to install/uninstall games.

My hope is that there's some smart OS level features which will move data stored on traditional external HDDs to the internal SSD when needed. Perhaps you can dictate which games remain on the SSD, then there's a placeholder amount of storage (100-200 GB) for swapping files to/from the external drive?

 

[Still a Gray Area]

From what I understand, this is actually a big big deal to them and took years to get right.

Click to shrink...

Makes sense that it would be a lot of work considering that a disk copy of a game on your hard drive is a different SKU from a digital copy on the store. Currently, they can't even co-exist much less be converted.

 

[anexanhume]

Very much this. why would devs be told the die size, just tell them the actual specs that they need.

Click to shrink...

These are a little different because they're essentially claiming to have an inside track to manufacturing information by virtue of a direct connection to the Fab or people that work there. Credibility by obscurity almost.

The problem is those people wouldn't have a reason to have architecture information, which they also usually claim to have too.

 

[Euler007]

Is having a free M.2 slot considered impossible?

 

[Pheonix]

Disregarding those die size leaks, many have been expecting a large SOC for Scarlett for months now. From the E3 teaser, the SOC was estimated to be 360-380 mm2. While some have disregarded this information, given Xbox's recent history with the accuracy of their Scorpio teaser, I'm inclined to accept it. And that is inline with the Xbox One and the 1X die sizes. I'd say the more out of the ordinary thing would be for Scarlett's SOC to be significantly smaller

There's many reason to explain the existence of a larger SOC: larger CPU cache, larger memory bus, more CUs, integration of other processing components (AI for example).

And, even if Scarlett has a larger SOC, there's a definite possibility PS5 is still more powerful by focusing on speed - which seems to be the case given Oberons clocks.


That's definitely a reasonable analysis, I'm not sold on the die size leaks either. Though, as I stated above, I do generally think the Scarlett SOC render will be accurate.

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Great points and well said. I tend to agree with you. I have always been of the impression that sony and MS will be taking very different design directions this time around. With MS going wide and slow and sony going narrow and fast. But still ending up at around the same place.

My reasoning here is that MS will be spending less on things like RAM and storage that whatever sony chooses to employ for those solutions but that will mean they can spend more n the size of their silicon. Sony, on the other hand, won't be willing to spend as much on their silicon cause they are spending more on RAM/SSD so they will have to push that silicon as fast as they can.

Either way, it should be interesting.

i am simply applying the same logic we used to apply when comparing the power draw of the 580 to the x1x. That was a 180w gpu that ms was able to get in a 170w console. same goes for the 480 and the pro which both topped out at 150w.

if their power budget is 150w and they are using RDNA1 cards, then by that logic we are looking at a 5.2 tflops 5500. Of course i dont believe this, but just following that logic through, we have to assume thats the best we can do at that price point and TDP.

I think a 7nm+, 40+ CUs and 200-225w console is pretty much guaranteed at this point because the 5500 and 5700 cards are very power hungry. I also dont see why Sony would design a 300mm2 APU. Why take that risk? they must have started with at least a 350mm2 chip on 7nm and gone from there.

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Yh I understand. However, if we are to use your 1X example, then the card we should actually be looking at is the 5700. That has an average power draw during gaming of 183W. I agree with you though, think 200W-230W consoles are very likely next-gen.

I'm really curious to see how our current extended HDD's are handled for next-gen systems. Seems like the pipe will definitely be too slow to play games off of them, but what's the solution?

Will Sony and Microsoft let us still use external drives just for backup, with the ability to move games between external and internal as we want to play them? That makes the most sense to me, as I know plenty of people who have 2TB and up external drives right now.

I just have to wonder how long said transfer will take on a game by game basis.

Click to shrink...

The external HDDs will benothing more than glorified back-ups now. At least for Next-gen games. With the benefit bein that it will be significantly faster copying over a game you want to play (and deleted from your internal drive) from the external drive than it would be redownloading/reinstalling 20GB-100Gb worth of data again.

Is having a free M.2 slot considered impossible?

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I would say NO. They probably wouldn't even make it possible for you to swap out your SSD much less give you a slot to add another one.

 

[Mecha Meister]

I've updated the OP over the past two days to include the new information we found out about the PlayStation 5! :D

 

[Thera]

I'm really curious to see how our current extended HDD's are handled for next-gen systems. Seems like the pipe will definitely be too slow to play games off of them, but what's the solution?

Will Sony and Microsoft let us still use external drives just for backup, with the ability to move games between external and internal as we want to play them? That makes the most sense to me, as I know plenty of people who have 2TB and up external drives right now.

I just have to wonder how long said transfer will take on a game by game basis.

Click to shrink...

I think the best way is always to keep the size of an installed game on the SSD. After that, they can automatically move the oldest game of the SSD on the HDD (or ask you which one). The next time you put your console in idle, the transfer will occure. So, no impact for the player.
Now, when you want to play a game which is on your HDD, you are at approx 100MB/s of transfer rate and there won't be magic here, you will have to wait. But it is still 4 times better than the actual 27MB/s reading speed of 6x blu ray.

 

[Deleted member 59519]

So there was another bits of news. The full reveal will be next year, so RIP any 25th anniversary hopes.