Eh I m sure they r being extra cautious like they were with boost mode where they said they can't guarantee games wouldn't break and no game had issues in reality
Eh I m sure they r being extra cautious like they were with boost mode where they said they can't guarantee games wouldn't break and no game had issues in reality
I wouldn't be sure that is the same situation as ps4 pro is rather similar to ps4 and bc was much simpler to implement.Eh I m sure they r being extra cautious like they were with boost mode where they said they can't guarantee games wouldn't break and no game had issues in reality
Yet they said the exact same thing that we r working on it and can't guarantee 100% compatibility.even PRo gives u warning about itI wouldn't be sure that is the same situation as ps4 pro is rather similar to ps4 and bc was much simpler to implement.
1.) There is no HBM3 on the horizon for production in 2019/2020, instead HBM2e from Samsung and Sk Hynix:To both of you...
- The PS4 was amongst (if not the first) the first mainstream products to use 8Gb (1GB) GDDR5 chips back in 2013. So because something is not being made right now (it's scheduled to go into production between 2019/2020) it doesn't mean it can't make it into a next-gen console.
- The issue with HBM isn't that there is more demand for it, its actually that there isn't enough demand or it, that's why prices remain high.
- And something you both may not know about HBM3 (or HBM in general), what really makes it expensive is the fact that they use an interposer. That's literally having silicon on silicon. But it's necessary because it "was" the only way they saw to accommodate the 1024-bit/stack bus width. With HB3, one of the game changers of that spec is that they can instead choose to use a smaller bus of 512-bit/stack.
- Why this is great is that it means you can do away with that silicon (costly) interposer entirely and use an organic interposer(already used in MCM designs, that stuff that chiplets are put on) instead. These are much cheaper than silicon interposers while being able to handle significantly higher routing than PCBs. And that's just one of two ways HBM3 is going to be cheaper. It retains the same bandwidth throughput by increasing (doubling) the clock speed while halving the bus size.
-PS5 official info from Sony somewhere around next E3(Sony will not be participating on E3),i'd say Q2 2019 small reveal
[*]-PS5 release March 2020 or November 2020,not yet finalized
[*]-backward compatible
[*]-physical games & ps store
[*]-ps plus & ps plus premium ( premium-beta early access,create private servers,
[*]-specs CPU 7nm ryzen 8 core 16 threads,unknown speed
[*] GPU 7nm Navi arhitecture around 14TF,its gonna be powerful and power efficient,Sony working with Amd for Navi,some sort of Ray Tracing but will not focus on that,more focus with VR and 4k,much better bandwith overall
[*] 24GB Gddr6 + 4gb ddr4 for os,we have 32 gb dev kits
[*]-2tb hdd some sort of nand flash
[*]-8k upscaling
[*]-PSVR2 in 2020 also,reveal with ps5,big resolution boost probably 2560x1440,120hz,220 field of view,eye tracking,wireless,battery life 4-5 hours,headphones integrated,less motion sickenss,no breaker box,much less cable management,much more focus on VR for aaa games,price around 250$
[*]-dualshock 5,some sort of camera inside for VR,more analog precision for fps games,something similiar to steam analog trackpad
[*]-price 499$,100$ loss per console at a beginning
[*]Ps4 exclusive launch games that i know of
[*]
[*]Gran Turismo 7 (vr)
[*]Pubg remaster 4k f2p with ps+ only on ps5
[*]Last of us 2 remaster
[*]Ghost of Tsushima remaster
[*]2-3 aaa games more + psvr2 games
[*]
[*]Non exclusive ps5 games 2020
[*]
[*]Battlefield bad company 3
[*]Harry potter
[*]Gta 6 Holiday 2020 most probably,not hearing anything ps4 related (hearing that Sony is paying huge money to secure 1 month time exclusive for ps5). Been hearing rumors about Miami and New York,so 2 big cities,but im not sure if thats 100% true
[*]Assassins creed
[*]Horizon 2 so far in 2021
Big PC towers.
[*]Pretty loud, fans seem to be running at max rpm all the time. Bug?
[*]GPU dump has memory at 18432mb, bandwidth 733GB/s, core clock at 1850mhz.
[*]CPU shows up as Zen 7. According to docs only the GPU on the SOC is being used in this iteration of the devkit.
[*]64GB of system ram.
[*]4TB SSD
monolithic die ~22.4mm by ~14.1mm
[*]16 Samsung K4ZAF325BM-HC18 in clamshell configuration
[*]memory vrm seems like overkill with multiple Fairchild/ON Semiconductor FDMF3170 power stages controlled by an MP2888 from MPS
[*]3 Samsung K4AAG085WB-MCRC, 2 of those close to the NAND acting as DRAM cache (unusual 2GB DRAM per 1 TB NAND)
[*]4 NAND packages soldered to the PCB which are TH58LJT2T24BAEG from Toshiba
[*]PS5016-E16 from Phison
- 24 GB RAM in total (20 GB usable by games)
- 8 GB in form of 2 * 4-Hi stacks HBM2 - Sony got "amazing" deal for HBM - in part due to them buying up bad chips from other customers which can't run higher then 1.6 Gbps while keeping 1.2v.
- HBM is expected to scale down in price a lot more than GDDR6 over the console lifetime
-Samsung, Micron and SK Hynix already shifting part of their capacity towards HBM due to falling NAND prices -
Sony will be one of the first high volume customers of TSMCs InFO_MS when mass production starts later this year (normal InFo already used by Apple in their iPhone)
- InFO_MS brings down the cost compared to traditional silicon interposers - has thermal and performance advantage as well - InFO_MS allows them to drive their 1.6 Gbps chips @ 1.7 Gbps (435 GB/sec.) without having to increase the voltage above 1.2v
- HBM is more power efficient compared to GDDR6 - the savings were invested into more GPU power - additional 16 GB in form of DDR4 @ 256 bit for 102.4 GB/sec
. - 4 GB reserved for OS, the remaining 12 GB usable by games
- memory automatically managed by HBCC and appears as 20 GB to the developers
- HBCC manages streaming of game data from storage as well - developers can use the API to take control if they choose and manage the memory and storage streaming themselves
- memory solution alleviates problems found in PS4 - namely that CPU bandwidth reduces GPU bandwidth disproportionately
- 2 stacks of HBM have 512 banks (more banks = fewer conflicts and higher utilization)
- GDDR6 better than GDDR5 and GDDR5x in that regard but still less banks than HBM - at the same time trying to keep CPU memory access to slower DDR4
- very satisfied with decision to use two kinds of memory for price to performance reasons
Haptic feedback could have been gleaned from patents. I would say any of those rumors have borne out in a way that couldn't have been easily predicted thus far.Wanted to repost some of the rumors from the past year to see if they line up with what we have seen revealed officially so far. Maybe one of these bs leaks is true.
I've always liked this pastebin leak. lots of things have come true. but they could all be wishful guesses.
This 4chan leak too.
PS5 devkit leak.
HBM2 leak.
Not posting the crossaint leak or the project epsilon leaks since they are obviously fake.
What do you guys think? The pastebin leak kinda confirms haptic feedback for the DualShock 5.
I would say 4chan leak with CPU shows up as Zen 7 is most creadible ;d Btw hbm leak suggest 8.7-10.8tf (you missed "allowed them to go below ~50 GFLOPs per GB/sec. bandwidth but still keep above 40 GFLOPs per GB/sec.") so you shouldn't like that one ;)Wanted to repost some of the rumors from the past year to see if they line up with what we have seen revealed officially so far. Maybe one of these bs leaks is true.
I've always liked this pastebin leak. lots of things have come true. but they could all be wishful guesses.
This 4chan leak too.
PS5 devkit leak.
HBM2 leak.
Not posting the crossaint leak or the project epsilon leaks since they are obviously fake.
What do you guys think? The pastebin leak kinda confirms haptic feedback for the DualShock 5.
Almost exactly what I'm expecting but I think the CPU will be more like 3.2Ghz and 16gb of RAM will be available to devsUpdated predictions:
8c/16t Zen 2 @ 2.8GHz
44 active CUs @ 1.85 GHz = 10.4 TF
16GB GDDR6 (14GBs available to devs) @ 17 Gbps on a 256-bit memory bus - 544GB/s bus speed
$499
It doesn't make sense from a RAM standpoint though. 64GB of RAM with bandwidth that would require a bus 320 bits or higher, but 64GB would imply a 256/512 arrangement, and sufficient density modules don't even exist to hit those numbers even with clamshell. You'd need 32Gb, unless this was a pre-APU PC devkit.I would say 4chan leak with CPU shows up as Zen 7 is most creadible ;d Btw hbm leak suggest 8.7-10.8tf (you missed "allowed them to go below ~50 GFLOPs per GB/sec. bandwidth but still keep above 40 GFLOPs per GB/sec.") so you shouldn't like that one ;)
There hasn't been any patents suggesting that the controllers would indeed have haptic feedback, the only thing that there was a patent for was the camera inside of the controllers and the force resistive trigger for vrHaptic feedback could have been gleaned from patents. I would say any of those rumors have borne out in a way that couldn't have been easily predicted thus far.
I agree, tho I think PS5 will have 16GB GDDR6 and 4GB GDDR6/DDR4 for OS, and be $399.99, at a $30-$50 loss.Predictions
PS5
GPU: 44cu @ 2000Mhz = 11.26TF
CPU: 3.2Ghz Zen 2
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 16Gbps on 256 bit memory bus = 512GB/s bandwidth
SSD: 1TB
$499
Scarlett
GPU: 48cu @ 1800Mhz = 11.06TF
CPU: 3.6Ghz Zen 2
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 14Gbps on 320 bit memory bus = 560GB/s bandwidth
SSD: 1TB
$499
Practically the same machine, just focusing on slightly different things.
Size wise, I think Scarlett will be the bigger box, PS5 smaller.
Very similar to my predictions. Both would be great machines.Predictions
PS5
GPU: 44cu @ 2000Mhz = 11.26TF
CPU: 3.2Ghz Zen 2
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 16Gbps on 256 bit memory bus = 512GB/s bandwidth
SSD: 1TB
$499
Scarlett
GPU: 48cu @ 1800Mhz = 11.06TF
CPU: 3.6Ghz Zen 2
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 14Gbps on 320 bit memory bus = 560GB/s bandwidth
SSD: 1TB
$499
Practically the same machine, just focusing on slightly different things.
Size wise, I think Scarlett will be the bigger box, PS5 smaller.
First leak knew something at that time for sure .we just don't know how much of it is trueWanted to repost some of the rumors from the past year to see if they line up with what we have seen revealed officially so far. Maybe one of these bs leaks is true.
I've always liked this pastebin leak. lots of things have come true. but they could all be wishful guesses.
This 4chan leak too.
PS5 devkit leak.
HBM2 leak.
Not posting the crossaint leak or the project epsilon leaks since they are obviously fake.
What do you guys think? The pastebin leak kinda confirms haptic feedback for the DualShock 5.
That was a joke ;) there is no zen7It doesn't make sense from a RAM standpoint though. 64GB of RAM with bandwidth that would require a bus 320 bits or higher, but 64GB would imply a 256/512 arrangement, and sufficient density modules don't even exist to hit those numbers even with clamshell. You'd need 32Gb, unless this was a pre-APU PC devkit.
That headline is misleading. Unsure and working towards "complete compatibility" aren't the same thing.
That headline is misleading. Unsure and working towards "complete compatibility" aren't the same thing.
they already confirmed it. I can see a handful games not make the cut like past systems with BC
That headline is misleading. Unsure and working towards "complete compatibility" aren't the same thing.
they already confirmed it. I can see a handful games not make the cut like past systems with BC
I agreeFirst leak knew something at that time for sure .we just don't know how much of it is true
Isn't ryzen 7 the name of zen cpus offcially ?
Zen 7 could just be a Zen 7nm.I would say 4chan leak with CPU shows up as Zen 7 is most creadible ;d Btw hbm leak suggest 8.7-10.8tf (you missed "allowed them to go below ~50 GFLOPs per GB/sec. bandwidth but still keep above 40 GFLOPs per GB/sec.") so you shouldn't like that one ;)
Because of a metro article?
What do you guys think? The pastebin leak kinda confirms haptic feedback for the DualShock 5.
Haptic feedback could have been gleaned from patents. I would say any of those rumors have borne out in a way that couldn't have been easily predicted thus far.
"something similiar to steam analog trackpad" doesn't equal "haptic feedback" or "adaptive triggers".There hasn't been any patents suggesting that the controllers would indeed have haptic feedback, the only thing that there was a patent for was the camera inside of the controllers and the force resistive trigger for vr
What the hell guys .Zen 7 could just be a Zen 7nm.
i only like the 14 tflops one and the 4chan one. but the HBM2 leak could be pointing to an 8 tflops gpu which lines up with the 300mm2 die size rumor.
If Sony had full PS BC support that would be a massive killer appI still think we might have full PS4,PS3,PS2 & PS1 BC on the PS5 and not just PS4 BC, mainly because of Microsoft having full Xbox (OG,360,One) BC on the Xbox Scarlett, they'd lose the BC marketing edge next year to MS, and from what we've heard Sony really cares about perfecting BC for next gen, so much so to the point of delaying the console by a year from a decision made in 2017,.
Now i'd be shocked that given that 3 year window from 2017 to 2020 Sony didn't consider full BC support going into the next gen PlayStation console and not just PS4 BC, something just doesn't sit right with needing 3 years just for getting PS4 BC 101% spot on, especially given that both consoles are x86 machines and Sony has already dabbled on PS4 console to console compatibility with the PS4 OG to Pro.
i am 80% - 85% sure that we'll get full Playstation BC support into the PS5.
Predictions
PS5
GPU: 44cu @ 2000Mhz = 11.26TF
CPU: 3.2Ghz Zen 2
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 16Gbps on 256 bit memory bus = 512GB/s bandwidth
SSD: 1TB
$499
Scarlett
GPU: 48cu @ 1800Mhz = 11.06TF
CPU: 3.6Ghz Zen 2
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 14Gbps on 320 bit memory bus = 560GB/s bandwidth
SSD: 1TB
$499
Practically the same machine, just focusing on slightly different things.
Size wise, I think Scarlett will be the bigger box, PS5 smaller.
lol i had no idea.What the hell guys .
You guys should know the actual name of ryzen cpu is ryzen 7 . No ?
Yes but not zen7;)
"something similiar to steam analog trackpad" doesn't equal "haptic feedback" or "adaptive triggers".
Maybe I missed something
Wanted to repost some of the rumors from the past year to see if they line up with what we have seen revealed officially so far. Maybe one of these bs leaks is true.
I've always liked this pastebin leak. lots of things have come true. but they could all be wishful guesses.
This 4chan leak too.
PS5 devkit leak.
HBM2 leak.
Not posting the crossaint leak or the project epsilon leaks since they are obviously fake.
What do you guys think? The pastebin leak kinda confirms haptic feedback for the DualShock 5.
There hasThere hasn't been any patents suggesting that the controllers would indeed have haptic feedback, the only thing that there was a patent for was the camera inside of the controllers and the force resistive trigger for vr
My point was that if they were making a console to release this year and changed their mind, then it is unlikely that they have done a major redesign, opting for RAM that is not even on the market. I would also find it hard to believe that they would be working with something whose demand is not being met by supply.Who said anything about starting with ne design then switching to another? All I am and have been saying is that if they are using HBM then its a decision the made along time ago, and it will be because they can make it work. All I have been doing since then is discussing ways with which that ould work or not work. And up until now I have been having this discussion with you in god faith, it's not like I am an HBM evangelist or some shit, couldn't care less which RAM solution they use as long as it works. I am just taking the Pro HBM stance and making a case for it so I can hear, find out or learn why such an option will be impossible. If at all it is.
Soma wouldn't boot with boost mode enabled.Eh I m sure they r being extra cautious like they were with boost mode where they said they can't guarantee games wouldn't break and no game had issues in reality
Ok. If we assume hat they had already requested a GDDR6 chip as far back as 2017 (which is when the change to launch in 2020 was made), isn't it safe to also assume that a redirect to incorporate a different mem controller type for HBM in their chip wouldn't have been a big deal? considering that in 2017 RDNA didn't even exist at that point.My point was that if they were making a console to release this year and changed their mind, then it is unlikely that they have done a major redesign, opting for RAM that is not even on the market. I would also find it hard to believe that they would be working with something whose demand is not being met by supply.
All I did was look at it from a business perspective. And I concluded that if they are utilizing HBM, they will have to get some pretty big assurances (and you can bet there will be clauses with compensation) that their demand will be met, because gaming is their bread and butter.
If both end up being around $500 or more to produce, Sony isn't undercutting by $100. Same for if these end up being $399.Sony is not going to sell their next gen console for the same price with overall performance disadvantage.
I think CPU clocks will be in 3.1-3.3Ghz range for both and memory bandwidth will be the same.
No, I actually read the Japanese source, if it makes you happy.
If we are taking their CGI video from E3 at face value and believe the Flute leak, then Scarlett uses a 320-bit bus while PS5 uses a 256-bit bus so that's already ~20mm more on Scarlett's die. But who knows, anything is possible, just like the ESRAM in the die last-gen or the EDRAM in the 360's die the gen before that.So what could Xbox be doing differently given the potential die size is larger? I mean for it to be hitting similar ballpark performance as already hinted?
I want to believe. That's a full year or more before the PS Classic would've been released, so that kills my theory about that backlash contributing. But could they have known in 2017 if the Navi GPU had compatibility issues? Honestly, what would Sony have known in 2017? About all I can think of that they could've tested is PS4 games running on Ryzens instead of Jaguars, but the PS4 Pro and Boost mode release should have cleared out major CPU speed issues on most games. On the other hand, MS put their BC program on hold to make sure everything works well on Scarlett iirc, so maybe there are some problems there.I still think we might have full PS4,PS3,PS2 & PS1 BC on the PS5 and not just PS4 BC, mainly because of Microsoft having full Xbox (OG,360,One) BC on the Xbox Scarlett, they'd lose the BC marketing edge next year to MS, and from what we've heard Sony really cares about perfecting BC for next gen, so much so to the point of delaying the console by a year from a decision made in 2017,.
Now i'd be shocked that given that 3 year window from 2017 to 2020 Sony didn't consider full BC support going into the next gen PlayStation console and not just PS4 BC, something just doesn't sit right with needing 3 years just for getting PS4 BC 101% spot on, especially given that both consoles are x86 machines and Sony has already dabbled on PS4 console to console compatibility with the PS4 OG to Pro.
i am 80% - 85% sure that we'll get full Playstation BC support into the PS5.
If both end up being around $500 or more to produce, Sony isn't undercutting by $100. Same for if these end up being $399.
Sony could have the overall advantage, but if the total difference is ~5%, not much you can do either way. One system will have the "advantage" and both will be the same price.
So what could Xbox be doing differently given the potential die size is larger? I mean for it to be hitting similar ballpark performance as already hinted?
So what could Xbox be doing differently given the potential die size is larger? I mean for it to be hitting similar ballpark performance as already hinted?
If we are taking their CGI video from E3 at face value and believe the Flute leak, then Scarlett uses a 320-bit bus while PS5 uses a 256-bit bus so that's already ~20mm more on Scarlett's die. But who knows, anything is possible, just like the ESRAM in the die last-gen or the EDRAM in the 360's die the gen before that.
Sony could also be using less CPU cache.If we are taking their CGI video from E3 at face value and believe the Flute leak, then Scarlett uses a 320-bit bus while PS5 uses a 256-bit bus so that's already ~20mm more on Scarlett's die. But who knows, anything is possible, just like the ESRAM in the die last-gen or the EDRAM in the 360's die the gen before that.
Significantly smaller. Take up around a third less space.HBM2 controllers and bus size is smaller too, right?
There were also some talk about how MS needs to add support for machine learning stuff and some kind of support to interface with the azure cloud. that could make their chip bigger.
It's all good, Vitamin_B_ComplexNo, I actually read the Japanese source, if it makes you happy.
One thing they have not confirmed is if they will run like PS4 or like PS4pro games. Until then, I will stick to the pro.
Edit: Upon rereading it I sound kinda condescending and harsh. This was not my intention, I apologise JamRock7.
The newest Wired article says that the new controller has a "larger-capacity battery", so maybe it will last a bit longer.My largest question is will the PS5 have a controller that lasts longer than point one of a femtosecond so I don't have to own two controllers to just play one game?
You can't choose to cut the sentence to make your point :pthis tells me they are talking about haptic feedback or at the very least adaptive triggers.