Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air

[Pheonix]

The newest Wired article says that the new controller has a "larger-capacity battery", so maybe it will last a bit longer.

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or that damn light gets brighter.

Is the usefulness of CPU cache related to the storage speed? I wonder if maybe the theories about PS5 having the showdown custom SSD from the patent and Scarlett having a regular NVME are true, and the result is that the PS5 doesn't need as much cache?

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No. CPU cache has more to do with feeding instructions to your CPU. If they are using less cache, its because they believe their system doesn't need as much cache to run games as you will typically find in a PC whose CPUs generally are shuffling way more workloads than a console would. It could also indicate that their OS is lean and less robust compared to whatever MS uses. An argument can be made that your SSD performance is tied to your CPU and how quickly it can call the drive, but I doubt reducing the cache size will impact that kinda performance.

NVMe SSDs have their own RAM, the type of RAM they use can impact their speed. To what degree I am not sure.

 

[AegonSnake]

No, I actually read the Japanese source, if it makes you happy.

One thing they have not confirmed is if they will run like PS4 or like PS4pro games. Until then, I will stick to the pro.

Edit: Upon rereading it I sound kinda condescending and harsh. This was not my intention, I apologise JamRock7.

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the oberon leak showed three profiles. One for 800 mhz (base ps4 games with no pro support) , one for 911 mhz (pro patched games) and the standard 2.0 ghz presumably for ps5 games.

I think any game that got a pro patch should run at pro settings on the ps5'

 

[gremlinz1982]

Ok. If we assume hat they had already requested a GDDR6 chip as far back as 2017 (which is when the change to launch in 2020 was made), isn't it safe to also assume that a redirect to incorporate a different mem controller type for HBM in their chip wouldn't have been a big deal? considering that in 2017 RDNA didn't even exist at that point.

I fully get and agree with what you are saying about the business of going with HBM from a volume perspective. I just don't believe that if that is something sony wanted to do that would be the reason they don't. Between Samsung and hynix I am guessing they could get that kinda volume.

I also want to be clear that everything I am saying about HBM is based on LC-HBM (which in truth isn't even HBM3 and I pointed this out in one of my previous posts).

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Sony was talking to AMD, and they knew what AMD's roadmap was. The same as Microsoft. In this manner, they were always going to be limited by AMD's timetable and when they CPU, GPU would be around. Any delay on AMD's part would simply mean that both would suffer a delay. Plus they would know beforehand that there was going to be a delay thus we would not be getting leaks or announcements.

On the second note, I do not know what Sony was going to work with. It could be GDDR6, it might be HBM2. What I am almost sure it is not is HBM3 because that is not even in production, and my conclusion was that they were not going to make a huge change just because new tech was available. I would also ASSUME that they would not be betting all their marbles on a platform whose demand far outstrips supply.

 

[Bosch]

Predictions

PS5
GPU: 44cu @ 2000Mhz = 11.26TF
CPU: 3.2Ghz Zen 2
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 16Gbps on 256 bit memory bus = 512GB/s bandwidth
SSD: 1TB
$499

Scarlett
GPU: 48cu @ 1800Mhz = 11.06TF
CPU: 3.6Ghz Zen 2
RAM: 16GB GDDR6 @ 14Gbps on 320 bit memory bus = 560GB/s bandwidth
SSD: 1TB
$499

Practically the same machine, just focusing on slightly different things.

Size wise, I think Scarlett will be the bigger box, PS5 smaller.

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Cpu I believe more around 2.8-3 to sustain low watts.

Gpu don't get why you guys get more than 40 cus if even amd gpus don't have that.

Probably 36 cus best scenario 40. 2ghz on a console doubtful... Probably 1.6ghz 8-9 Navi tflops.

 

[Deleted member 13155]

What I think is funny is that a lot of people were disappointed by the PS4 specs back in 2013. Not bleeding edge like 360 and PS3 after all.

But here we are and right now the base PS4 isn't pumping out ridiculously low framerates, gimped player limits in Battlefield and laughably low resolutions in its latest releases.

I wonder if fans will be disappointed by the specs yet again.

 

[SharpX68K]

Given a wide enough bus (384-bit) and fastest GDDR6 officially on roadmaps (18 Gbps chips) I think that could outstrip the bandwidth of slower-older HBM2. i.e. used in Radeon Vega 64 and Google Stadia, and probably the kind of HBM2 Sony would be able to get its hands on in volume. That is, 16GB of HBM2 with less than 500 GB/sec. The same would apply to that LC-HBM as well, which is supposed to have bandwidth comparable to HBM2, not HBM3.

If Sony has already set PS5 in stone with HBM2 or a combination of HBM2 and DDR4 or GDDR6, then I'd expect PS5 Pro to swap out HBM2 for HBM3 in 2023. Pretty damn unlikely such a scenario plays out like that, I know.

I'm betting on Sony going with GDDR6 like Microsoft.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

What I think is funny is that a lot of people were disappointed by the PS4 specs back in 2013. Not bleeding edge like 360 and PS3 after all.

But here we are and right now the base PS4 isn't pumping out ridiculously low framerates, gimped player limits in Battlefield and laughably low resolutions in its latest releases.

I wonder if fans will be disappointed by the specs yet again.

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Thats true, this generation was considered to be disappointing in case of hardware but it's last better than older one (thanks to high memory amount and because of 4k resolution popularity that is demanding even for today highend pc).

 

[AegonSnake]

But here we are and right now the base PS4 isn't pumping out ridiculously low framerates, gimped player limits in Battlefield and laughably low resolutions in its latest releases.

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there have been several games this year alone with some awful framerate issues and we have another full year of current gen games left. Metro, Anthem and especially control have awful framerate issues. Going all the way down to 10 fps in the PS4 version of control. Destiny Shadowkeep raid on the Xbox one literally runs like a slideshow.

the ps3 had issues with the framerates from the beginning due to the cell processor. it got better towards the middle and worse towards the end but there were several ps3 exclusives that ran at decent framerates. nothing like shadow of the colossus or control.

besides, devs simply downgraded the games this gen after the first showing instead of bothering to run them like they were designed. Wticher 3, Anthem, Watch Dogs, Division, Rainbow Six, Crackdown, i can go on and on. these games look last gen compared to their original demos. instead of dropping resolutions and framerates, they just decided to launch games that look nothing like the original reveals.

next year, i expect cyberpunk to run at shit framerates, avengers should be fine, but all cross gen games like the next AC, next battlefield and next cod will have a lot of framerate issues.

 

[BreakAtmo]

Given a wide enough bus (384-bit) and fastest GDDR6 officially on roadmaps (18 Gbps chips) I think that could outstrip the bandwidth of slower-older HBM2. i.e. used in Radeon Vega 64 and Google Stadia, and probably the kind of HBM2 Sony would be able to get its hands on in volume. That is, 16GB of HBM2 with less than 500 GB/sec.

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Sure, but wouldn't that also take up more space, suck up more power, run much hotter and heavily cut down on the price advantage?

 

[sncvsrtoip]

there have been several games this year alone with some awful framerate issues and we have another full year of current gen games left. Metro, Anthem and especially control have awful framerate issues. Going all the way down to 10 fps in the PS4 version of control. Destiny Shadowkeep raid on the Xbox one literally runs like a slideshow.

the ps3 had issues with the framerates from the beginning due to the cell processor. it got better towards the middle and worse towards the end but there were several ps3 exclusives that ran at decent framerates. nothing like shadow of the colossus or control.

besides, devs simply downgraded the games this gen after the first showing instead of bothering to run them like they were designed. Wticher 3, Anthem, Watch Dogs, Division, Rainbow Six, Crackdown, i can go on and on. these games look last gen compared to their original demos. instead of dropping resolutions and framerates, they just decided to launch games that look nothing like the original reveals.

next year, i expect cyberpunk to run at shit framerates, avengers should be fine, but all cross gen games like the next AC, next battlefield and next cod will have a lot of framerate issues.

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Low textures quality on ps3 and x360 was painful to watch in the end of these consoles life (and I've finished gta5 on ps3, framerates was far from decent)

 

[anexanhume]

or that damn light gets brighter.

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[Vitamin_B_Complex]

the oberon leak showed three profiles. One for 800 mhz (base ps4 games with no pro support) , one for 911 mhz (pro patched games) and the standard 2.0 ghz presumably for ps5 games.

I think any game that got a pro patch should run at pro settings on the ps5'

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Oh yeah, I remember! Thanks. Let's hope they can get compatibility to 99%.

 

[Pheonix]

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Oh no....now you've got that song in my head.

 

[Deleted member 13155]

there have been several games this year alone with some awful framerate issues and we have another full year of current gen games left. Metro, Anthem and especially control have awful framerate issues. Going all the way down to 10 fps in the PS4 version of control. Destiny Shadowkeep raid on the Xbox one literally runs like a slideshow.

the ps3 had issues with the framerates from the beginning due to the cell processor. it got better towards the middle and worse towards the end but there were several ps3 exclusives that ran at decent framerates. nothing like shadow of the colossus or control.

besides, devs simply downgraded the games this gen after the first showing instead of bothering to run them like they were designed. Wticher 3, Anthem, Watch Dogs, Division, Rainbow Six, Crackdown, i can go on and on. these games look last gen compared to their original demos. instead of dropping resolutions and framerates, they just decided to launch games that look nothing like the original reveals.

next year, i expect cyberpunk to run at shit framerates, avengers should be fine, but all cross gen games like the next AC, next battlefield and next cod will have a lot of framerate issues.

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Downgrades have always been there. The PS3 Motorstorm reveal was utter bullshit but Heavenly Sword was shown at 60fps with much better IQ on supposed actual hardware at E3. MGS4 was at some point 60fps in FP mode and looked baller. White Knight Chronicles looked ridiculously good at first. Those were all downgraded and still had rather shit IQ when they were actually out.

Then the PS360 had games like Crysis 2 running at 640p ish and 25 fps or lower. Battlefield was always 30fps with like 24 players. I think last gen could really use a mid gen upgrade with more RAM and a better GPU. I wonder how the PS3 would've been with these increases, the Cell was obviously bottlenecked by those parts.

Cyberpunk will probably run like shit, and its best to wait for the inevitable PS5 release.

 

[Deleted member 4761]

https://fudzilla.com/news/graphics/48019-radeon-vii-16gb-hbm-2-memory-cost-around-320

That $999 PS5

 

[JamRock7]

https://fudzilla.com/news/graphics/48019-radeon-vii-16gb-hbm-2-memory-cost-around-320

That $999 PS5

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Jeeesus

 

[rokkerkory]

What are the chances of both consoles being within 10% of total system power of each other?

 

[anexanhume]

What are the chances of both consoles being within 10% of total system power of each other?

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Very high. Those with insider knowledge have stated as such.

 

[Kyoufu]

Wanted to repost some of the rumors from the past year to see if they line up with what we have seen revealed officially so far. Maybe one of these bs leaks is true.

I've always liked this pastebin leak. lots of things have come true. but they could all be wishful guesses.

This 4chan leak too.

PS5 devkit leak.

HBM2 leak.



Not posting the crossaint leak or the project epsilon leaks since they are obviously fake.

What do you guys think? The pastebin leak kinda confirms haptic feedback for the DualShock 5.

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I like how you posted a bunch of bullshit rumours but didn't post the other bullshit rumours because they were "obviously fake" 🤣

 

[bcatwilly]

Here is a patent from the Xbox Advanced Technology Group that talks about machine learning being used to deal with texture compression, which is obviously relevant to the use of SSDs in the next generation consoles and continued size increase in game installs - http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20190304140.pdf

I think that Microsoft could have a leg up at the system level with these types of things and Variable Rate Shading (VRS) implementation.

 

[Andromeda]

What are the chances of both consoles being within 10% of total system power of each other?

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Klee implied a difference similar as OG XB1 and XB1s which is a bit less than 7%.

 

[anexanhume]

Here is a patent from the Xbox Advanced Technology Group that talks about machine learning being used to deal with texture compression, which is obviously relevant to the use of SSDs in the next generation consoles and continued size increase in game installs - http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20190304140.pdf

I think that Microsoft could have a leg up at the system level with these types of things and Variable Rate Shading (VRS) implementation.

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Unless I'm misreading, the AI is server-side.

 

[AegonSnake]

I like how you posted a bunch of bullshit rumours but didn't post the other bullshit rumours because they were "obviously fake" 🤣

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;p gotta draw the line somewhere. i drew the line at misspelled powerpoint slides, crossaint pictures, and 4channers pretending to be devs arguing over why a 11 tflops vega would outperform a 12.5 tflops navi gpu.

 

[bcatwilly]

Unless I'm misreading, the AI is server-side.

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I believe that they are just showing the fact that the trained machine learning model can exist either locally on the "computing device" (e.g. Xbox in one use case) or server side with the network interface on the one diagram.

 

[VX1]

Interesting:

AMD's disruption continues: 7nm 'Zen 2' mobility CPU available from Q1 2020, will bring the price of gaming laptops significantly down

https://wccftech.com/exclusive-next-generation-amd-7nm-mobility-cpu-apu-laptop-price-down-699/

"So here is what AMD has planned next: An AMD gaming laptop, equipped with a Ryzen 5 CPU, complete with discrete graphics, starting from $699. While I do not have confirmation of the exact specification, I do know this pricing is being based on a 7nm Ryzen part with 6-cores along with a dGPU (the Radeon RX 5300M/5500M potentially) and will go up against the Intel Core i5-8265U + GTX 1050 setup."

"The new parts are going to be based on Zen 2 architecture and Renoir APU should be included in the lineup. My source told me that OEMs are very happy with these new pricing guidelines and are awaiting the arrival of AMD's 7nm with much gusto. One thing is clear: the winds of the mobility industry are changing - and for the better."

Anyway, it seems Zen2 year from now will be very affordable for console makers.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

I've been playing Borderlands 3 and Destiny 2 and quite a bit annoyed at the amount of aliasing at 1080p.

Meanwhile Sony first party games have been able to be close to aliasing free on most of their first party games since Horizon. They have some proper wizards there in the ICE Team.

 

[anexanhume]

Interesting:

AMD's disruption continues: 7nm 'Zen 2' mobility CPU available from Q1 2020, will bring the price of gaming laptops significantly down

https://wccftech.com/exclusive-next-generation-amd-7nm-mobility-cpu-apu-laptop-price-down-699/

"So here is what AMD has planned next: An AMD gaming laptop, equipped with a Ryzen 5 CPU, complete with discrete graphics, starting from $699. While I do not have confirmation of the exact specification, I do know this pricing is being based on a 7nm Ryzen part with 6-cores along with a dGPU (the Radeon RX 5300M/5500M potentially) and will go up against the Intel Core i5-8265U + GTX 1050 setup."

"The new parts are going to be based on Zen 2 architecture and Renoir APU should be included in the lineup. My source told me that OEMs are very happy with these new pricing guidelines and are awaiting the arrival of AMD's 7nm with much gusto. One thing is clear: the winds of the mobility industry are changing - and for the better."

Anyway, it seems Zen2 year from now will be very affordable for console makers.

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Affordable yes, but not for the reasons that might seem obvious. It's not the fact that the laptops will be low cost, but that water availability and cost makes it a profitable venture for AMD all the way into Q1. Recent reports had spiked fears that 7nm availability would drive console prices and availability.

 

[The Cameo]

Pro is actually a pretty good comparison because it seems like they are trying to do the same thing on PS5.


Yes, by Mark Cerny in the April Wired article and now again in Famitsu a few days ago. this is a terrible Google Translate version of what Famitsu had said:
https://www.famitsu.com/news/201910/08184763.html
To me, it sounds like they are saying "We got most of the PS4 covered and we are trying to iron out some stuff to get all of the PS4 library working". Anyone here reads Japanese and can try and give us the "spirit" of this paragraph?

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Yeah, from what I would think, it's more likely that like just about everything that runs off the more surface level APIs with a minimum of tweaking - third party, all-platform stuff and indie titles - probably run fine, but the ones that are using different paths when running and are deeply tied to the peculiarities of the platform that might not be carried over into Ryzen/Navi functions are the things they're trying to lock down.

Isn't one of the big differences between the 78xx series/Polaris/Vega and Navi that the compute pipelines that were there aren't really around anymore since RDNA is a more solely gaming focused architecture compared to GCN? I could see that being a problem. Brute forcing wouldn't be an especially capable band-aid when you get to fine-grain stuff, I imagine, and rewiring the code to put that stuff back onto the CPU since now it could be run on that sounds like a mess of a thing to deal with.

 

[VX1]

Recent reports had spiked fears that 7nm availability would drive console prices and availability.

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Oh? I didn't know that.

 

[Deleted member 40133]

The messed up thing about living in Canada is that prices aren't consistent, why my girlfriend (now wife) got her PS4 at launch it was $400, when I got mine 8 months later it was $420, not including 13% taxes. So for me, there's literally no point in waiting for a "bundle", because that shit ain't happening before a midgen refresh lol

 

[Ushay]

Klee implied a difference similar as OG XB1 and XB1s which is a bit less than 7%.

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To be honest I hope this is the case. Differentiation should be in areas other than raw TF.

 

[rokkerkory]

Klee implied a difference similar as OG XB1 and XB1s which is a bit less than 7%.

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Hot damn this is best scenario for all

 

[Falcon511]

7% difference? Yeah game will perform near identical to one another.

 

[JamRock7]

Klee implied a difference similar as OG XB1 and XB1s which is a bit less than 7%.

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I hope this is the case. Next gen is gonna be amazing

 

[SharpX68K]

Sure, but wouldn't that also take up more space, suck up more power, run much hotter and heavily cut down on the price advantage?

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Exactly. So I'm still kinda torn about what trade-offs Sony and Microsoft each make with the memory configurations.

 

[Welfare]

Klee implied a difference similar as OG XB1 and XB1s which is a bit less than 7%.

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Hell, it could mean the difference is just ~0.09TF

 

[AegonSnake]

New DF direct with Richard, John and Dictator.



John looks good. thank god.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

New DF direct with Richard, John and Dictator.



John looks good. thank god.

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Only cheap, weak rt on ps5 confirmed :d

 

[sleepr]

I hope this is the case. Next gen is gonna be amazing

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Me too. Would it be to ask too much for MS to add a touch pad on their controller? This way both consoles would have it and devs would take advantage of it, I think.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Pepsi-Man remake needs to be a PS5 game with RT, sadly it will be a PS4 game. What a missed chance. :(

 

[AegonSnake]

Only cheap, weak rt on ps5 confirmed :d

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good. ray tracing is expensive and results are barely worth it.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

good. ray tracing is expensive and results are barely worth it.

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Haha thats a way to look at it

 

[Lausebub]

Do you all realy think a 1TB SSD will be enough next gen, especialy without the ability to use external storage.

 

[Andromeda]

Only cheap, weak rt on ps5 confirmed :d

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Do they still think Ray tracing on PS5 could only be used for audio tasks like in one of their previous video ?

 

[Garrett 2U]

Do you all realy think a 1TB SSD will be enough next gen, especialy without the ability to use external storage.

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You'll be able to use external storage. I imagine the SSD will be like a cache where it stores your most recently active games.

But to answer your question, 1TB is absolutely not going to be enough. Current gen games are pushing the 150GB range. Just wait until the standard is 4K.

 

[AegonSnake]

Do they still think Ray tracing on PS5 could only be used for audio tasks like in one of their previous video ?

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no, they looked at the examples provided in the wired article which were only using it for shadows. reflections and ray traced GI is not something they think we might see next gen.

but again, thats based on just two lines in the article. Sony of course couldve mentioned Spiderman building reflections to sell their ray tracing but they talked about tomb raider shadows instead.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Do you all realy think a 1TB SSD will be enough next gen, especialy without the ability to use external storage.

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Not in a single way. RDR2 is already 150 GB, TLOU2 is 2 discs, PS5 games will use UHD Bluray with 100 GB which means some games will start using 2 dsics again, without forgetting the installation size. You can reach over 200 GB alone for one single game. Sony are aware of this and I wonder what they gonna do with that. If they deem 2TB SSD is expensive to include, then they must offer 2 skus for those who are smart enough to invest in more size.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Richard said it will be 1tb ssd

 

[QuiteSomething]

Will better CPU and SSD help make better compression techniques?

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

no, they looked at the examples provided in the wired article which were only using it for shadows. reflections and ray traced GI is not something they think we might see next gen.

but again, thats based on just two lines in the article. Sony of course couldve mentioned Spiderman building reflections to sell their ray tracing but they talked about tomb raider shadows instead.

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They can't judge the whole RT features or capapbilities of the console based on just a line from a company. Maybe EA talked about RT shadows only because they are targetting 60 FPS again in their games even for enxt-gen so they have to cut some features (or maybe there is a graphical mode for SP enabling all features or a 1400p 60 FPS mode with full RT). Like you said, First parties will try to include most of the features to showcase the console RT capabilities twhile sticking to 30 FPS again.

Richard said it will be 1tb ssd

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How does he know about it? AFAIK only tthe wired journalist had his hands on the console and he doesn't know all details. Such feature could be decided in the last moment you know for example as a counter attack for the competetion.