Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

Status
Not open for further replies.

Deleted member 5764

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,574
I feel like it's worth pointing out that Brad has gotten codenames confused before. IIRC, there was at least one codename he hyped up that just turned out to be a controller design. It doesn't seem too far-fetched to believe that Lockhart is part of Project Scarlett, but maybe won't be a retail product.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,169
Somewhere South


I was looking at this devkit trying to figure out where the APU heatsink would go and the v shape doesnt make much sense. that means that the heatsink would be on one side. so whats on the other side? is it possible they might be using a discrete GPU and CPU on either side?

also the vents in the middle, wouldnt they be flowing hot air back into the vents on the other side of the V?

also, why come up with such an elaborate design just for a devkit? just make a big box like the pro devkit next to it. i suspect the final version will be smaller but i still dont know which side will have the APU.
Hastily thrown together schematic:




Red outlined boxes are heatsinks, red tubes are heatpipes, red box in the middle a spreader plate/VC over the SoC. Yellow boxes are pusher fans (they might be puller fans on the other side of the heatsinks, though). Airflow are the magenta arrows.
 

big_z

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,871
Lockhart isn’t a thing, no one is developing for a low spec Scarlet. It’s possible you might see a budget friendly option in the future similar to the sad but the brad sams Lockhart is a no go.

He said that he heard from several independent sources Lockhart is "still a thing".
He also mentions his sources said Lockhart got cancelled in the summer but then was to be at x019. His sources sound like the ramblings in this thread...
Brad pushed Lockhart as a thing way back when it never was more than an idea and it still isn’t. Got him a lot of attention though.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,090
Europe
Hastily thrown together schematic:




Red outlined boxes are heatsinks, red tubes are heatpipes, red box in the middle a spreader plate/VC over the SoC. Yellow boxes are pusher fans (they might be puller fans on the other side of the heatsinks, though). Airflow are the magenta arrows.
Cool! Do you think there is a 7nm APU already in those dev kits or is it too early for that? I think anexanhume said recently it could be a chiplet inside those things?
 
Nov 11, 2017
1,701
Lockhart isn’t a thing, no one is developing for a low spec Scarlet. It’s possible you might see a budget friendly option in the future similar to the sad but the brad sams Lockhart is a no go.



He also mentions his sources said Lockhart got cancelled in the summer but then was to be at x019. His sources sound like the ramblings in this thread...
Brad pushed Lockhart as a thing way back when it never was more than an idea and it still isn’t. Got him a lot of attention though.
Brad sams sources are generally higher within microsoft before 3rd party information even filters. I'm sure lockhart is being discussed AT microsoft it may never come out may never reach actual 3rd party developers external documentation notes that doesn't mean his information was not correct. Lockhart could be a 2021 thing.
 

Psyrgery

Member
Nov 7, 2017
733
Ah you people put so much effort into Lockhart and can't really understand what it really is, but I've seen the truth.

Scarlet, as an SKU is less powerful than PS5 because it's around 9tflops whereas Ps5 is around the 11tflops ballpark.

Lockhart exists, but not as an SKU, but as an addon instead. Think of it as the 32X for the MegaDrive or the expansion pack on the N64. Lockhart REALLY is 4tflops, it has a second gpu, 4 extra gigs of ram and 512 gigs of fast storage.

Combining Lockhart and Scarlett you get ANACONDA, the surprising (Tom Warren was right when he said Ms would surprise Sony) 13 Tflops beast that will dominate single-handedly next-gen.

/fanfic
 

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,697
Germany
Hastily thrown together schematic:




Red outlined boxes are heatsinks, red tubes are heatpipes, red box in the middle a spreader plate/VC over the SoC. Yellow boxes are pusher fans (they might be puller fans on the other side of the heatsinks, though). Airflow are the magenta arrows.
I don't know but that picture let me looking for the G spot ...
 
Last edited:
Feb 10, 2018
15,973
Ah you people put so much effort into Lockhart and can't really understand what it really is, but I've seen the truth.

Scarlet, as an SKU is less powerful than PS5 because it's around 9tflops whereas Ps5 is around the 11tflops ballpark.

Lockhart exists, but not as an SKU, but as an addon instead. Think of it as the 32X for the MegaDrive or the expansion pack on the N64. Lockhart REALLY is 4tflops, it has a second gpu, 4 extra gigs of ram and 512 gigs of fast storage.

Combining Lockhart and Scarlett you get ANACONDA, the surprising (Tom Warren was right when he said Ms would surprise Sony) 13 Tflops beast that will dominate single-handedly next-gen.

/fanfic
Lol
 

CrypticSlayer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
409
At this point it would be crazy to have devs go build for a lower powered SKU that was rumoured to be killed. If it's coming back it's probably in a different form so it doesn't really matter. I think it's just a streaming box or an all digital SKU otherwise it may end up being a nightmare.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,278
United Kingdom
No 4tflop came from a reddit rumour, and if it were 4tf it would be even more cheaper.

It's odd that u perceive me pointing out a double standard as being "upset"
Nope, I'm pretty sure any serious consideration of a possible 4TF Lockhart started when Richard Leadbetter cited his sources on it.

Well, if you have to resort to pointing out faux double-standards, that in actual fact aren't actual double-standards, then I'm not really sure what else to call it, my man.

I don't know but that picture let's me looking for the G spot ...
🤣 lmfao

Colbert you saucy devil you!
 
Feb 10, 2018
15,973
Nope, I'm pretty sure any serious consideration of a possible 4TF Lockhart started when Richard Leadbetter cited his sources on it.

Well, if you have to resort to pointing out faux double-standards, that in actual fact aren't actual double-standards, then I'm not really sure what else to call it, my man.



🤣 lmfao

Colbert you saucy devil you!
Faux double standards, no, there was no backlash at the feasibility of a potential 8tflop $399 next gen console.

Here is the sauce of the 4tf lockhart

 
Oct 26, 2017
5,278
United Kingdom
Faux double standards, no, there was no backlash at the feasibility of a potential 8tflop $399 next gen console.

Here is the sauce of the 4tf lockhart

Well firstly, if you were paying any attention at all, many raged at the idea of an 8TF PS5, even to the extent of giving poor Mr Albert Penello shit over suggesting the same. It's only when we finally learned about RDNA that many felt that an 8TF RDNA next-gen box would be a reasonable upgrade (which it would be).

Secondly, people considering 8TF reasonable but not thinking 4TF is, isn't a double-standard. Because 4TF << 8TF. Surely you can grasp something so simple?
 

big_z

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,871
Brad sams sources are generally higher within microsoft before 3rd party information even filters. I'm sure lockhart is being discussed AT microsoft it may never come out may never reach actual 3rd party developers external documentation notes that doesn't mean his information was not correct. Lockhart could be a 2021 thing.
He might get wiffs of something from within Microsoft but he’s been pretty off with the Lockhart stuff and comments in the video tell why, some unreliable sources. He should have been more clear back then that Lockhart was a concept idea and to be taken with salt. Lockhart became a thing because he made it sound legit when it wasn’t really anything more than an idea.

Faux double standards, no, there was no backlash at the feasibility of a potential 8tflop $399 next gen console.

Here is the sauce of the 4tf lockhart

General rule of thumb if you see prices in a leak, close your browser and forget what you read. Until it comes from horses mouth on stage no one knows the price of the consoles.
 
Feb 10, 2018
15,973
Well firstly, if you were paying any attention at all, many raged at the idea of an 8TF PS5, even to the extent of giving poor Mr Albert Penello shit over suggesting the same. It's only when we finally learned about RDNA that many felt that an 8TF RDNA next-gen box would be a reasonable upgrade (which it would be).

Secondly, people considering 8TF reasonable but not thinking 4TF is, isn't a double-standard. Because 4TF << 8TF. Surely you can grasp something so simple?
You're the one that needs to pay attention, ppl being unhappy about a 8tf $399system is somthing completely different to thinking this spec and price is not feasible..
And I said there's a double standard regarding price, where ppl accept that 8tflop @ 399 is plausible but a 6tf lockhart @ $349/299 is not.
 

DeoGame

Member
Dec 11, 2018
696
Do we suspect pack-in titles with either console?

I suspect Xbox will come with 3 months Game Pass Ultimate packed in, or maybe Halo Infinite (although it's GP day one anways).

I could see Sony foregoing a pack-in, but including 3 months PS+ and Now.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,622
General rule of thumb if you see prices in a leak, close your browser and forget what you read. Until it comes from horses mouth on stage no one knows the price of the consoles.
This is very true .
A price point on leaks is a bad sigh even more so when it so early .
Only a very small amount of people would know what the price point will be .
In leaks it's just people guessing so early on .

Did you even look at the list? It's years out of date, full of 360 titles, and doesn't take into account post-release patches/dlc/etc. It's of no use.
Even at 100GB plus per game 1TB will be more than enough for the average user .
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,394
Lockhart could be simply a disc-less and cheaper version of Scarlett.

A Scarlett model at $449 would be very interesting and could be quickly and regularly price-cuted down to $399 the way XBX is regularly at $399.

Hence their comment about their machine in good position on price and power. They could even make it at $399 at launch if they ship it with a smaller SSD, like:

- Scarlett premium: 1TB SSD, UHD Blu-ray: $499
- Scarlett base: 512GB SSD (expandable with external SSD), no Blu-ray: $399
 
Nov 11, 2017
1,701
He might get wiffs of something from within Microsoft but he’s been pretty off with the Lockhart stuff and comments in the video tell why, some unreliable sources. He should have been more clear back then that Lockhart was a concept idea and to be taken with salt. Lockhart became a thing because he made it sound legit when it wasn’t really anything more than an idea.



General rule of thumb if you see prices in a leak, close your browser and forget what you read. Until it comes from horses mouth on stage no one knows the price of the consoles.
But lockhart was a legit plan at the time, it sounds to me like it is being repurposed after developer feedback.
 

BradleyLove

Member
Oct 29, 2017
537
Genuine question: how does MS push out Lockhart featuring Zen, RDNA, SSD and 16GB, all for a lot less than what X1X retails at?
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
5,127
Here's a better idea, ir maybe even more stupid, but I like it more than than any plan with Lockhart.

Project Scarlett (Anaconda) - Holiday 2020, equivalent of PS5, $499. What we are expecting and all next-gen only Xbox games are built from this as a baseline.

Project Leo (streaming box) in 2021, $199. Has same CPU, plus image processor and a small amount of RAM but no GPU, relies on xCloud. Comes with controller and 3-4 month subscription to Gamepass+Live.
0 TFlops, though Zen 2 still does hundreds of GFlops :p Project Leo will compete with Google Stadia, And is designed to reduce latency as much as possible.

Project Gemini (mid gen) Holiday 2023/24
Built for 8K, 60-120fps. AMD Chiplet cpu/gpu design, HBM3 replaces GDDR6.Will compete with PS5 Pro.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
747
Seattle
The most intriguing thing to me about the photos of the PS5 dev kit are details that aren’t evident in the patent filing. Notably, the peek inside the broad outer cooling vents seems to suggest a long cylindrical variation on a tangential fan. These are typically not very efficient, which leads to all sorts of questions. Is this some variant that takes advantage of additional radiating surface by mounting individual fans tangentially to heat sinks that run the length of the “arms“ in order to move more air across several blade surfaces? That could improve volume of air moved while keeping noise down, but I haven't seen any literature describing a similar commercial arrangement.
 

EsqBob

Member
Nov 7, 2017
140
Here's a better idea, ir maybe even more stupid, but I like it more than than any plan with Lockhart.

Project Scarlett (Anaconda) - Holiday 2020, equivalent of PS5, $499. What we are expecting and all next-gen only Xbox games are built from this as a baseline.

Project Leo (streaming box) in 2021, $199. Has same CPU, plus image processor and a small amount of RAM but no GPU, relies on xCloud. Comes with controller and 3-4 month subscription to Gamepass+Live.
0 TFlops, though Zen 2 still does hundreds of GFlops :p Project Leo will compete with Google Stadia, And is designed to reduce latency as much as possible.

Project Gemini (mid gen) Holiday 2023/24
Built for 8K, 60-120fps. AMD Chiplet cpu/gpu design, HBM3 replaces GDDR6.Will compete with PS5 Pro.
A streaming box doesn't cost $200. It just needs a basic cpu with hardware decoders for video. Like the chromecast ultra. It shouldn't cost more than $100 with the controller
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
985
The most intriguing thing to me about the photos of the PS5 dev kit are details that aren’t evident in the patent filing. Notably, the peek inside the broad outer cooling vents seems to suggest a long cylindrical variation on a tangential fan. These are typically not very efficient, which leads to all sorts of questions. Is this some variant that takes advantage of additional radiating surface by mounting individual fans tangentially to heat sinks that run the length of the “arms“ in order to move more air across several blade surfaces? That could improve volume of air moved while keeping noise down, but I haven't seen any literature describing a similar commercial arrangement.
Interesting. You think those are tangential fans visible through the vents? I dismissed the idea as my previous experience with them has shown, as you said, poor efficiency. I thought the black is simply the inside color of the silver vents you see, maybe just the inner support structure, or MAYBE inner fins that create a venturi effect for escaping air. I thought the light you see inside is the bottom/side of the kit. I assume it curves in towards the bottom and has the vents there as well.

Though thinking about it further, they probably have hardware in there that runs hotter than the final product and they just needed a ton of room for fin stacks and small, vertical fans. Would they design something as out there as you're suggesting just for dev kits?
 

big_z

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,871
But lockhart was a legit plan at the time, it sounds to me like it is being repurposed after developer feedback.
No it was an idea that brad made sound like it was being actively worked on by microsoft and developers. It never was, and developers weren’t and still aren’t working on a Lockhart equivalent.

Phil said he wouldn’t remove future options and Tom kind of reiterated that but people have twisted it into confirming Lockhart again for some reason. That’s just not the case. Phil was simply avoiding rumours and getting stuck in a pr corner if for instance they do release a cheaper all digital Scarlet down the road.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,335
Florida
Will 1TB be enough for next gen consoles? Even if it's SSD? A lot of AAA games are pushing the 120GB mark, only being able to store 5-6 games seems ludicrous, and having to constantly juggle games is annoying even now. Will they allow mechanical external drives if games are made to take advantage of SSDs? Will there be a write speed check like there was a USB 3.0 check this generation?

I don't know what the solution is but I know I'm personally sick of storage management.
If Lockhart really is a thing it's not for us. It's for the COD/NBA 2K/Madden with the occasional Assassin's Creed crowd. 500GB SSD is fine for them. Delete NBA 2K20 when NBA 2K21 comes out.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,278
United Kingdom
You're the one that needs to pay attention, ppl being unhappy about a 8tf $399system is somthing completely different to thinking this spec and price is not feasible..
And I said there's a double standard regarding price, where ppl accept that 8tflop @ 399 is plausible but a 6tf lockhart @ $349/299 is not.
So you're pointing out hypocrisy in posters over an argument about price that nobody but you is even engaging in? I'm quite frankly baffled at this point.

Everyone else is arguing about the lack of consumer desire and market position for a 4TF Lockhart (with reduced CPU clockspeed and RAM -- as rumoured by Brad Sams and Richard Leadbetter from DF).

Yes, i already said its fake, which is why it's silly using the 4tf lockhart number.
DF independently revealed the 4TF target for Lockhart based on info from their own sources. Hence why I continue to disagree with you that any consideration for a 4TF started when DF hinted at it, as opposed to the obvious BS reddit post you posted.
 

filkry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
770
Are there any rumours about the CPU power that's going to be in these things? I just bought a 3800X I'm hoping carries me through the gen...
 

Bits N Pieces

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,206
Scotland
No it was an idea that brad made sound like it was being actively worked on by microsoft and developers. It never was, and developers weren’t and still aren’t working on a Lockhart equivalent.

Phil said he wouldn’t remove future options and Tom kind of reiterated that but people have twisted it into confirming Lockhart again for some reason. That’s just not the case. Phil was simply avoiding rumours and getting stuck in a pr corner if for instance they do release a cheaper all digital Scarlet down the road.
You're just hypothesising here right, unless you are actually privy to what is being discussed internally around Xbox's next gen plans?
 
Jan 4, 2018
39
Games designed to run on a 1.3TF GPU with weak compute capabilities use just a bit of compute? No shit, Sherlock! That said, try running RDR2 on a 0.35TF GPU. You can go on and run it at 540p while matching Xbox One IQ. Good luck with that.
Any game. Reduce resolution to make balance out the GPU difference. Not sure why this is hard to understand.

Even if you have a 100 TF GPU, resolution-independent processes will always be a minority of GPU time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.