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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
1,711
Yes, but it turns out not all developers are willing to make that process. Bloodborne is the most famous example. Some like Overwatch, did some very minor upgrades.

You'd still be taking manpower from the team.

It would be really interesting if they develop an auto-downscaler though.
This was Mark Cerny.
"As a mid-generation release, we knew that whatever we did needed to require minimal effort from developers," Cerny explains. "We showed Days Gone running on PS4 Pro at the New York event. That work was small enough that a single programmer could do it. In general our target was to keep the work needed for PS4 Pro support to a fraction of a per cent of the overall effort needed to create a game, and I believe we have achieved that target."
This was from the Scorpio.
The demo stacks up the maximum amount of cars and runs the full AI and physics simulations. It's a highly taxing stress test, used to enforce the strict budgets in Forza Motorsport to ensure the locked 60fps the series is famous for. The ForzaTech port to Scorpio took two days to complete and was fully performant from day one.
It would be really interesting if they develop an auto-downscaler though.
Was this not what Brad Sams stated was going to be the case? Tools are getting better, as is automation. This is what makes me wonder why people think that porting these games would be such a huge issue, or that developers do not know what it is that should be done. If it took Sony a single developer, and Microsoft all of two days, then what makes people think that that overhead will not be smaller in future? Or that they will not have the support if needed for these developers?
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,363
This was Mark Cerny.


This was from the Scorpio.


Was this not what Brad Sams stated was going to be the case? Tools are getting better, as is automation. This is what makes me wonder why people think that porting these games would be such a huge issue, or that developers do not know what it is that should be done. If it took Sony a single developer, and Microsoft all of two days, then what makes people think that that overhead will not be smaller in future? Or that they will not have the support if needed for these developers?
dude, I didn't deny what you said, but that it didn't turn out the way he hoped. Witcher 3 took months, and only after the Xbox One X upgrade came out. There's still no PS4 Pro upgrade for Bloodborne.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
1,711
dude, I didn't deny what you said, but that it didn't turn out the way he hoped. Witcher 3 took months, and only after the Xbox One X upgrade came out. There's still no PS4 Pro upgrade for Bloodborne.
Well, is it not obvious that some developers were not going to bother touching some games that they brought out at launch? It has nothing to do with the tools though.

Common sense would state that if two versions of the same console were available, the having a scalable engine that caters to the platform is one of the first things any developer would be looking at. It is in this same vein that you see games catering to mid gen refreshes with every launch. And if needed, Microsoft has worked on BC this generation. So what makes people think that they cannot have the tooling right should they launch Lockhart later?

This is a classic example of people drawing from two distinctly divergent mindsets and coming to the conclusion that everything is constant.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,766
Barcelona Spain
Whilst you're right about more assets and more spaces requiring more memory, you're overlooking the potential super-fast SSDs provide when it comes to pushong more fine gran streaming of resources compared to how we do things now.

That coupled with various methods of virtualization of geometry and textures you could see massive improvements in memory efficiency compared to games built for the current gen of hardware, enabling the ability to increase holistic memory requirement of a typical area or space beyond the total increase in available ram*.

Whether that's VRam or otherwise. I don't foresee anyone moving away from a general unified RAM approach.

One of the besr explanation about virtual texturing and how it helps reduce RAM memory for texture and reduce read bandwidth from storage. This is by Sebastian Aaltonen about RedLynx virtual texturing implementation.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,422
If the PS5 uses ReRAM to some degree would it be possible for the OS to just live in there or does it have to hit the actual RAM at some point?
 

ppn7

Member
May 4, 2019
183
lockhart being back will suck so much. i am really not confident about it not affecting the overall baseline look of games.
Yeah and I don’t believe a Lockhart launch. It’s a shitty idea. You already have lockhart it’s called One X...
maybe MS can do a all digital version of the Scarlett but that’s all why doing a less powerful console....

If there is another Sku, it will be a only Cloud gaming. And you don’t need 299$ to do this. Put a good enough CPU for x264/265 decoding. 64go SSd and 4go ddr4. 150$ maximum. That’s all. No need for a cheap Scarlett.
 
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Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
723
Seattle
Though thinking about it further, they probably have hardware in there that runs hotter than the final product and they just needed a ton of room for fin stacks and small, vertical fans. Would they design something as out there as you're suggesting just for dev kits?
As you point out, it wouldn't be that surprising that they had to have aggressive cooling for a dev kit before final silicon was available. Overclocking something off-the-shelf to meet target specs might be plausible. The only reason I can imagine for such an exotic cooling solution, though, would be a test run for something they would want to put into production for mass consumption. I could be wildly off base in all my assumptions here, but I won't be entirely shocked if the retail PS5 utilizes something similarly outlandish in a more stylish package.
 
Feb 10, 2018
15,736
So you're pointing out hypocrisy in posters over an argument about price that nobody but you is even engaging in? I'm quite frankly baffled at this point.

Everyone else is arguing about the lack of consumer desire and market position for a 4TF Lockhart (with reduced CPU clockspeed and RAM -- as rumoured by Brad Sams and Richard Leadbetter from DF).



DF independently revealed the 4TF target for Lockhart based on info from their own sources. Hence why I continue to disagree with you that any consideration for a 4TF started when DF hinted at it, as opposed to the obvious BS reddit post you posted.
A few people recently have been suggesting that a lockhart like console won't be able to be significantly cheaper.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
1,711
So you're pointing out hypocrisy in posters over an argument about price that nobody but you is even engaging in? I'm quite frankly baffled at this point.

Everyone else is arguing about the lack of consumer desire and market position for a 4TF Lockhart (with reduced CPU clockspeed and RAM -- as rumoured by Brad Sams and Richard Leadbetter from DF).



DF independently revealed the 4TF target for Lockhart based on info from their own sources. Hence why I continue to disagree with you that any consideration for a 4TF started when DF hinted at it, as opposed to the obvious BS reddit post you posted.
The lack of market desire is only to the hardcore who is insecure that a lower spec machine will hold games back. None of that is remotely true if they share the same CPU, SSD and GPU family.

Next thing you always hear is how much workload will be added to developers when this is something that both manufacturers have gone on to state is not the case.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,872
Guys we had a leak few months back where it mentioned ps5 as Prospero. Now that we know that’s the confirmed dev kit name, can someone dig that up and we see what it said? It was 3 months ago or so
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,483
The lack of market desire is only to the hardcore who is insecure that a lower spec machine will hold games back. None of that is remotely true if they share the same CPU, SSD and GPU family.

Next thing you always hear is how much workload will be added to developers when this is something that both manufacturers have gone on to state is not the case.
They may state that is not much work but we all know it don't work out that way .
You have games like OW or control that had to be patch a short while after and even if it easy some devs don't even bother to patch older stuff .
Either way i sure MS will make it as easy as possible .
 
Feb 10, 2018
15,736
Guys we had a leak few months back where it mentioned ps5 as Prospero. Now that we know that’s the confirmed dev kit name, can someone dig that up and we see what it said? It was 3 months ago or so

This?
They just talk about streaming cameras for next gen and the consoles being better at twitch/mixer streaming.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
1,711
They may state that is not much work but we all know it don't work out that way .
You have games like OW or control that had to be patch a short while after and even if it easy some devs don't even bother to patch older stuff .
Either way i sure MS will make it as easy as possible .
Do we know that it does not work out that way? How many developers have you seen bitching about having to work on mid gen consoles or various states of the Switch as a percentile of the whole?

A lower spec machine would be an extension of the PS4/PS4 Pro, Xbox One/S/X, Switch docked/non docked. In short, an extension of the very thing they have been doing this half this generation. This is in addition to the fact that these manufacturers continue to learn with each passing month with the data they get from not only their own developers, but third party partners.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,024
Europe
Currently there is the PSAward in Japan and Jim Ryan talk for the 25th years anniversary of Playstation and told PS5 news will arrive next year. Stop with PSErebus or tidux, or pastebin or 4chan.

The only true thing we heard the last few days, it is devkit Scarlett aren't on hands of many devs.
PS5 news aside, i was frankly expecting a bit more for PS 25th anniversary...this is kinda pathetic.Oh well.
 

Matt

The Terror that Flaps in the Night
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
3,177
Do we know that it does not work out that way? How many developers have you seen bitching about having to work on mid gen consoles or various states of the Switch as a percentile of the whole?

A lower spec machine would be an extension of the PS4/PS4 Pro, Xbox One/S/X, Switch docked/non docked. In short, an extension of the very thing they have been doing this half this generation. This is in addition to the fact that these manufacturers continue to learn with each passing month with the data they get from not only their own developers, but third party partners.
There are reasons why partners responded so poorly to a two SKU strategy.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,349
Was it only me kinda thrilled to see all Playstation games through different generations and hoping to see some kind of teaser about a PS5 game?

(Talking about the compilation video in the PS Awards).