I think we need a new threadmark with a recap and Lockhart possibilities as that is an unexpected change.
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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man you need to chill , that is quite a research and for that kudos to you.
BUT do u know they still need to adjust to console right ? there is sales in console market and they want that.
lets talk about Crysis 2, what happen to that game ? pc gamers was furious with crysis 2 and 3 changes to make accessible on console and lower end pc.
Not every developer openly talk about this. Of course they are targeting PC as lead platform but that doesn't mean that there is minimum requirement. if that is that case , PC should have already develop games around SSD and killed NExt Gen big thing .
You are misunderstanding the fact that ( at least me ) most debate because overall game might limited due to low spec, not just res. As we don't know what the spec will be or even will be released at all but clearly MS decision for this because they want to leverage in business sense. that is not wrong . i only debating because you constantly stated that this lower end will not limit or effect game development and your down scaling is as cheap and easy as up scaling comment, that is where all this starts and still going .
if MS release Lockhart , Sony still will release games with talking full advantage.
it goes other way too. In the end, we still getting good games and tech advancement every gen.
I'm for sure buying PS5 because of their games , and will do the same if MS games interest me.
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You have better chances that publishers will ignore Anaconda and not Lockhart. Lockhart will be the best selling of the 2
The concern I would have with Lockhart is IF the difference in specs influences game design. If it is just purely resolution then fine, but if developers have to possibly change things(npc count, world size, etc.) because they wouldn't be possible on Lockhart then that is concerning. Hell I say this as someone who is almost solely in the PS ecosphere.
I'm looking forward to reading all the outrage when Nvidia releases something like the GTX 1660 Ti again when an RTX 2080 Ti is already available. It will totally ruin PC gaming, because game developers will only target the 1660 Ti and this will hold back next gen graphics!!! Oh, wait, that's not reality.
Yes , we will know about this only when the spec released. If it has weight into it then it doesn't matter.
For sure Ms already confirm the spec and some key devs might already in loop. maybe feedback are mixed reaction hence the on off trigger.
MS own games is also releasing on PC targeting only 2080 Ti! Oh wait, that not a reality either.
Ofc, publishers could just choose to ignore millions that are made with Xbox which are not compensated by the PS platform to fulfill fanboy wishes on resetera. Due to a system which has likely a small entry price for next-gen and thus a high potential for mass adoption.
I know you can port any operation running on a supercluster to a Texas Instrument calc, even solved it with only two fingers if needed.
What I am saying is that considering the minimum requirement for a videogame, if Lockhart is located between 4-6Tf and mandatory to use for those wanting to publish on Anaconda, creatives will have an hard limitation that won't exist on PlayStation.
The hardest part to figure from a prosumer/enduser point of view is to stop considering for a moment that resolution, framerate and post-processing effect would be the only criteria impacting performances.
II was talking about creatives having to fill a scene in Maya or Cinema 4D. You can't put more on that scene for the Anaconda envelop that what could fit in the Lockhart envelop while staying playable, no matter how resolution scaling is efficient.
And visuals also interact and respond to CPU physics, scripting and AI, it's not like these domains were separated where keeping one and reduce the other would be balanced by a post-processing effect.
For a movie, it would mean Steven Scarlett having a better camera than Robert Playstation, but Steven would be limited to shot in the New Jersey and Florida while Robert could cover the entire US territory.
A majority of your Windows games are designed to run on a Xbox One Fat, that explains why the gap between the 1060 and the 2080 is filled with post-processing visual effects like resolution, framerate or RT and nothing related to the core design of the game.
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It's about where the baseline is. If Microsoft still puts that baseline at Scarlett, then fine. But if they put it at a theoretical 4TF, then why is it so difficult for some people to understand that there would be a clear difference comparatively? Surely we all agree that there is a difference between what developers are capable of when jumping from one generation to the next, and that that difference is owed for a large part to more powerful machines?
Is Bethesda lying that they're going to do stuff in The Elder Scrolls 6 that isn't possible on PS4/One? Why would they do that if it's so easily scalable?
"Just turn down the resolution/effects guys..."
So the developers that are worried about the impact of lockhart on their ambitions are just lying? Or maybe they don't know how game development work?
We're talking about the minimal baseline not the options available :)
With current gen games ,we have the 1S for the lowest denominator so the 1660 will do the job accordingly to its capacity..
But Tom, this is the wrong view because consoles are so different to PC. Publishers will abandon Xbox as we write and speak, the baseline is just too low for a true next-gen jump and the PC comparison is off because. We need to push the medium forward, not backwards. How do you do that with only PS4 Pro performance?
(I can't believe people actually wrote that with a serious mind).
One of the major problems with PC is that devs don't take full advantage of the latest hardware .
But then that can also work out as plus since you can change settings .
That not the case with consoles.
Anyone that think pubs will abandon Xbox are idiots .
Wanting the baseline to be as high as possible is another matter all together .
In fact if i was a pc gamer i would also want the base to be high as possible to take advantage of my expensive hardware .
EDIT this goes for more than the GPU.
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This is funny, considering that multiplatform games on PC are already held back by the vanilla Xbox One spec as their baseline.
Otherwise, a game that requires a 6th gen or newer Intel CPU and a 1070 would manage to do things literally impossible to run on OG XBO/PS4.
So you think they do that only to beat Sony? Perhaps that's a false assumption to begin your reasoning.
I have yet to read a convincing argument why a next-gen console that mainly has a GPU downgrade while the rest is next-gen in the system, especially when it is targeted for a lower resolution, the largest chunk a GPU spends resources in, is making the two other systems worse.
Again, the major performance bottlenecks currently are CPU, Storage and GPU bandwidth and all three will be way higher than anything we now have in the console space on Lockhart. Lockhart doesn't even have only a fourth of the GPU power of PS5 or Scarlett, unless you believe they will have 16TF.
I seriously hope this is some 4D trolling. I honestly can't tell in next-gen threads anymorem
They also said the CPU might be downgrade also .
I waiting to see the full specs.
It will effect things the question is just how much and that will depend on certain factors.
Still i don't see a huge saving if the just lowering the GPU and getting rid of the UHD drive .
So we will see if other things have to get lower .
Not downgraded, lower clocks. Which makes sense when your target is to run the games at a lower resolution.
Me, too! But even they will not tell us how this is bad for games, unless you are knee-deep into a current engine and can explain which part of your computing pipeline is gimped because of Lockhart's specs.
But which exactly? We already know that you don't need 4x the GPU power going from 1080p to 4k, the difference does not have to be 400%. And guess what, it isn't for Lockhart. It's almost as if Microsoft did research on that (like they did with the X, as detailed by DF) and they know how to "downscale" the hardware so that it fits where they see it on the market.
This could be related how MS wants to put this machine on the market. If it is to be the low-cost entry point to gamepass they might take a loss on the hardware to get you to be a long-term subscriber to gamepass. This is already happening elsewhere in the consumer market.
I still cant believe people spend money on a Xbox One, every game runs like shit on it. More and more games are optimized for the S and the X.
I expect the following scenario;
- Make the games run excellent on Scarlett,
- Good on Lockhart
- As good as possible on X
- One and S will be a bloodbath!
I expect the following scenario;
- Make the games run excellent on Scarlett,
- Good on Lockhart
- As good as possible on X
- One and S will be a bloodbath!
I okay with your other points than this one .
Losing money happens yeah but i can't remember the last time a company lose money on both the hardware and service side at the same time.
Still MS has the cash to do it for a long time.
PC's with highend components do things that are impossible on consoles so the PC version of a game is not hold back by a fictional baseline.
Tell me about it...
All for an idea of a console SKU that is going to move 0 needles at launch as currently imagined.
I didn't do the math, of course I could be wrong but saying that they also loose money on gamepass is a different story and perhaps not really part of the convo.
The only thing we know is that MS believes in gamepass and wants to have as many people subscribing to it as possible and this is what Lockhart is for.
Like I've said many times over and over in this read and elsewhere, next-gen consoles won't be a giant leap GPU wise. It's the CPU and SSD that will be key.
Very, VERY few games are fundamentally different on PC compared to their console counterpart, apart from things like Star Citizen. Anything an RTX 2080ti manages with for example RDR2 is additive, not transformative. The promise of new hardware as a baseline is to do things that otherwise wouldn't be possible. Like, for example, at the start of this gen, Shadow of Mordor. The last gen version didn't have the nemesis system, because they couldn't make it work on that hardware. Same goes for this upcoming gen.
Lockhart can do things that are not possible on PS4/One. A lot of them. The CPU will run circles around the Jaguar, storage will be way faster, GPU is way more modern in terms of what it can do and bandwidth...
And you think the nemesis system was in because of the GPU jump only?
The point is to illustrate that the relative power of the machines in question can have an effect on what's ultimately possible, because apparently, that's still being called into question. If it does turn out that Scarlett is the baseline, and that they manage to configure Lockheart in such a way that it can run Scarlett games, only at lower resolution and with fewer effects, then fine. But until then, let's not pretend that having a lower spec machine in the mix can't affect the games that will ultimately have to actually run on those machines.
In terms of tech GPUs will be a bigger leap that they were this gen .
If XB is 10 plus TF it will be bigger jump in terms of performance than it was this gen and that is not talking about new things like RT and VSR.
EDIT i forget to mention since the CPU jump much bigger also that can help free up the GPU easier .
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Surely MS have never innovated in the console space? /s
-- Broadband port in the OG Xbox
-- Xbox LIVE was ground breaking in that space too
I won't turn it into a petty list war, but that post is incredibly ignorant of the past.
>10TF Navi GPU is a leap that doesnt fall too short off a generational leap when you account for efficiency.
Why should we then go on to paint a worse picture than what we know right now and use examples that don't resemble the situation at hand?
I'm also fan of the line about Microsoft being in gaming for the money. Well jeez, thanks for the illumination on that. I'm so glad we have honest companies like Nintendo and Sony who don't look at the bottom line and make games because they love gamers with all their heart, profits be damned.
And yeah, MS truly never innovated. Xbox Live, HDDs in a console, Game Pass...
A 4TF GPU that is intended to not run at the same specs at the same time is not a generation behind.
The existence of Lockheart may or may not hinder the ambition of developers in terms of what type of games they design, but one thing is for sure, if it didn't exist there wouldn't even be a possibility of that.
And to all people acting like white knights here to save poor masses with MS by giving them a cheap option, this option already exists, it is called Xbox one or One X. It has a huge library of greatly discounted titles and you know what? If the developers want to take advantage of that huge install base all they need to do is build a cross gen game. Everyone's happy, simple. Why muddy the waters with next gen 0.5?
in short Lockheart seems like a bad idea
And to all people acting like white knights here to save poor masses with MS by giving them a cheap option, this option already exists, it is called Xbox one or One X. It has a huge library of greatly discounted titles and you know what? If the developers want to take advantage of that huge install base all they need to do is build a cross gen game. Everyone's happy, simple. Why muddy the waters with next gen 0.5?
in short Lockheart seems like a bad idea
True. But I think Sony can win a bit of the gamer PR battle. If people start saying that Xbox Scarlett games are scaled up PS4 Pro games whilst the PS5 is the baseline for next gen exclusives.
Though maybe it won't matter if it hits a low price point. The discless Xbox sold like hot cakes this black Friday.
What we know? This is a literal quote from the kotaku article: "Game developers will be expected to support both Anaconda and Lockhart, which some are worried might hamper their ambitions for next-gen games in the coming years."
Like I said, let's not pretend this couldn't possibly have ramifications in terms of the games that eventually have to run on this.
LMAO let the dirty unwashed masses enjoy their crappy last gen consoles and stay off our hardcore lawn
Yes pretty sure a 1.84 tf gcn gpu as a baseline is very close to +10 tf navi gpu +rt as basline we don't have generational leap here!!!! , gpu don't matter cpu and ssd will run 4k graphics with rt and new graphics effects, what are you trying to prove here?
But where would that false statement originate from? Honestly, if Sony goes that route in lying to potential customers, that would be something.
In terms of PR, it will be interesting for sure but I hope both will not do these hot takes lying to customers. The tech discussions between Scarlett and PS5 will also reach even more people than in 2013 and I would be surprised to see any meaningful difference between the two, if any at all.
And that baseline will continue to exist for many years, as will the 4TF baseline of the PS4 Pro and the 6TF baseline of the Xbox One X.
He is trying to tell you that Lockhart will not run 4k graphics as it is not intended to to so, no matter how many exclamation marks you use.
"Some" "might" -> "This lockhart is holding my next favorite plastic box in shackles, devs and pubs unite, leave xbox behind!" mhm (not saying you said so but this view exists in this very thread).
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