Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

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isahn

Member
Nov 15, 2017
500
Roma
If anaconda is 10tf rdna that's the equivalent to 15GCN TF, which is about 8x more powerful then the OG PS4 and 11x more powerful then the OG X1.
This is a pretty big gpu leap.
1,5x IPC gain Navi vs whatever is the 1X GPU seems huge, are you sure? Furthermore, as long as the GPU power is concerned the jump should be measured in respect to the 1X/pro imo
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
8,503
some more details from splitscreen podcast by jason:
  • Repeats the disinterest from developers for lockhart, says it will have significantly less ram, he has heard developers saying the GPU is basically PS4 Pro level, but the CPU and SSD should improve it beyond that, still developers dont want to be forced to work on lockhart and feel that the SKU will hamper next gen games.
  • says that he has heard of the PS5 launch games, and that they are PS5 only, will probably make an article about it in the future
  • didnt hear about what MS's games, but assume they will target xbox one, PC and Scarlett, like Halo Infinite
  • a big focus will be on accessbility, no need to think anymore about "i only have 1 hour should i go play this?" but instead gives the option of "play for 10 minutes and stop like using netflix" per his examples.
  • One last thing he said, and he isnt sure of himself and said to not take him by his word, so please dont go crazy over this and lurking journalists beware of making an article an this lol, but he said that PS5 and Anaconda are better than "graphics cards like the RTX 2080, what is currently on the market". But again, BIG grain of salt on that statement, and not nearly definitive enough to make articles on before we are repeating the previous jason post in this thread.

Modiz said from listing to jason podcast that MS pushes developers to target 1440p60 .
So that going to make things interesting .
no that was from the article, not the podcast.
1,5x IPC gain Navi vs whatever is the 1X GPU seems huge, are you sure? Furthermore, as long as the GPU power is concerned the jump should be measured in respect to the 1X/pro imo
Navi is more like 30% IPC increase over polaris.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
some more details from splitscreen podcast by jason:
  • Repeats the disinterest from developers for lockhart, says it will have significantly less ram, he has heard developers saying the GPU is basically PS4 Pro level, but the CPU and SSD should improve it beyond that, still developers dont want to be forced to work on lockhart and feel that the SKU will hamper next gen games.
  • says that he has heard of the PS5 launch games, and that they are PS5 only, will probably make an article about it in the future
  • didnt hear about what MS's games, but assume they will target xbox one, PC and Scarlett, like Halo Infinite
  • a big focus will be on accessbility, no need to think anymore about "i only have 1 hour should i go play this?" but instead gives the option of "play for 10 minutes and stop like using netflix" per his examples.
  • One last thing he said, and he isnt sure of himself and said to not take him by his word, so please dont go crazy over this and lurking journalists beware of making an article an this lol, but he said that PS5 and Anaconda are better than "graphics cards like the RTX 2080, what is currently on the market". But again, BIG grain of salt on that statement, and not nearly definitive enough to make articles on before we are repeating the previous jason post in this thread.


no that was from the article, not the podcast.

Navi is more like 30% IPC increase over polaris.
Thanks for the correction and summary modiz.
Man i can't wait to see Sony games , they going to looking fucking crazy .
I also expect they going really show off next gen .
 

Dave.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,806
Yep, tools evolved and there are a lot of ways to facilitate / accelerate things. But games have a bigger scope now. Lot's of single player need 20-30-40 hours to complete.

But, don't forget the great output of AA games like Control, Hellblade Senua's Sacrifice, The Outer Worlds, A Plague Tale. If those studios managed to be economically viable, I can't wait for next gen. There is a market for single player more "compact" / focus games.
Two of those games were so economically viable, the founders sold their studios citing "increased financial stability". Not ideal!
 

sleepr

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,359
some more details from splitscreen podcast by jason:
  • Repeats the disinterest from developers for lockhart, says it will have significantly less ram, he has heard developers saying the GPU is basically PS4 Pro level, but the CPU and SSD should improve it beyond that, still developers dont want to be forced to work on lockhart and feel that the SKU will hamper next gen games.
  • says that he has heard of the PS5 launch games, and that they are PS5 only, will probably make an article about it in the future
  • didnt hear about what MS's games, but assume they will target xbox one, PC and Scarlett, like Halo Infinite
  • a big focus will be on accessbility, no need to think anymore about "i only have 1 hour should i go play this?" but instead gives the option of "play for 10 minutes and stop like using netflix" per his examples.
  • One last thing he said, and he isnt sure of himself and said to not take him by his word, so please dont go crazy over this and lurking journalists beware of making an article an this lol, but he said that PS5 and Anaconda are better than "graphics cards like the RTX 2080, what is currently on the market". But again, BIG grain of salt on that statement, and not nearly definitive enough to make articles on before we are repeating the previous jason post in this thread.
Seems in line with what we've been hearing for a long time now.

Not sure about that RTX 2080 thing though, if it gets close to that it will still be awesome.
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,944
Significantly less RAM would definitely be something different than the GPU difference, that's for sure. But I will wait for proper specs on that front.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,952
some more details from splitscreen podcast by jason:
  • Repeats the disinterest from developers for lockhart, says it will have significantly less ram, he has heard developers saying the GPU is basically PS4 Pro level, but the CPU and SSD should improve it beyond that, still developers dont want to be forced to work on lockhart and feel that the SKU will hamper next gen games.
  • says that he has heard of the PS5 launch games, and that they are PS5 only, will probably make an article about it in the future
  • didnt hear about what MS's games, but assume they will target xbox one, PC and Scarlett, like Halo Infinite
  • a big focus will be on accessbility, no need to think anymore about "i only have 1 hour should i go play this?" but instead gives the option of "play for 10 minutes and stop like using netflix" per his examples.
  • One last thing he said, and he isnt sure of himself and said to not take him by his word, so please dont go crazy over this and lurking journalists beware of making an article an this lol, but he said that PS5 and Anaconda are better than "graphics cards like the RTX 2080, what is currently on the market". But again, BIG grain of salt on that statement, and not nearly definitive enough to make articles on before we are repeating the previous jason post in this thread.


no that was from the article, not the podcast.

Navi is more like 30% IPC increase over polaris.
Thanks for the summary.

Looking forward to the article.
 

Thera

Member
Feb 28, 2019
2,569
Two of those games were so economically viable, the founders sold their studios citing "increased financial stability". Not ideal!
I don't think they would have disappeared if MS wouldn't had bought them. Those statement are maybe true but this the classic PR statement when your studio become first party, you won't say "Oh yeah I like money and the proposition was too good".
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,437
Somewhere South

Shpeshal Ed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,024
Melbourne, Australia
I agree and I will repeat a sentiment I said earlier. MS as a company has no interest in pushing the industry forward. Their sole desire is to make money and control the industry. Of course companies like Sony and valve want to be profitable and it's their main goal. But part of their strategy to do so is by pushing the industry forward as a medium and pushing what games can do. Their studios reflect that, their consoles reflect that, their products reflect that, like PSVR. A product that was clear wasnt going to he profitable a lot or barely. But they pushed it and tried to push the medium forward. Was it to make a profit? Yes. But clearly pushing gaming forward is part of their strategy.

MS on the other hand simply want to own the living room, always have, always will. Every decision they make will be revolve around that. Whether it be kinect, tv and cable or Lockheart.
I can’t tell if you’re trying to start a meme or if you’re this deluded.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,400
Presumably lower resolution textures for 1080p screens need less ram to hold.
I expect a reduction for display buffer for high vs low res needs, but beyond that, you're again kind of curtailing the dev's choice about how they use memory. Forcing the ratio of graphics-asset:system data. Which is another potential knock to non-graphics things, to non-resolution scalibility, along with whatever cpu downclock there is. It depends how much of a reduction we're talking about, but 'significantly' doesn't sound great.
 

Seshumaru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
797
The Netherlands
Wow what a ride this thread has been. Round and round and round and round we go. LOL Do people really not understand the argument that is being made? And what's with the crooked comparison with how PC scale games.

Games are being made with a minimum base and than effect and stuff gets upgraded with more power.
Example: Xbox One --> PC --> PS4 --> PC --> Pro --> PC --> 1x --> PC --> PC --> PC.

If for example the base was 2080 Ti and a 16c/16t 4.2GHZ, games would look so much better and could do so much more than they do now. Consoles wouldn't be able to play them, well unless they turn everything down that it looks and plays like a different game.

Next gen should be about bringing the base line so much higher that games are allowed to become bigger, complex and more inspired.
If MS is really demanding devs to create games for lockheart than that will be the baseline. If the rumored specs (slower CPU/4TF GPU/less memory) for lockheart are real than yeah that's going to hamper next gen.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,005
rtx 2080 level is about 11rdnaTF.
If lockhart remains 4tf it will run into some problems if devs do 1440p on ana+ps5


Also what gameplay mechanic or visual element do people actually think a potential lockhart would hamper, judging by some reactions it seems like people think if it was not for lockhart ps5/Anaconda would be able to do avatar graphics with a map the size of Pandora.

I've yet to see example of gameplay mechanics and visuals that could not be accomendated by lowering the res and settings for less powerful gpus.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
14,952
From the sound of things and MS focus on frame rates as a focus, it sure feels like the idea is to make the game and build it up for the higher SKUs.
I've been of this mind for a while now too.

They aren't going to be touting 60 frames if their games are next gen only with incredible graphics, physics, AI, particles, expansive and interactive world, destruction, etc.... It is because X1/Lock will be the base and that will allow them to ramp the frames up for Snek.
 

panda-zebra

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,860
If the new consoles really are ~2080 level then the gimp really has no place existing, it absolutely will hold back games from day one of their inception.

Imagine the possibilities... now, team, reel them back a bit 'cause we've got to cram this masterpiece into a gimpy discount box.

Lockhart is such an terrible idea, please Phil don't do this.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| Lockhart is such an terrible idea, please Phil don't do this.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
4,829
From the sound of things and MS focus on frame rates as a focus, it sure feels like the idea is to make the game and build it up for the higher SKUs.
I actually don't hate that. It would be funny if Lockhart tamping down on developer vision had a silver lining in producing better framerates on the higher end machines.

|OT8| Ball, Chain and Lockhart.
Or, if we start on more BC debates:

[OT8] The Great Emulation War
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,723
again, big grain of salt on this, he specifically called out "rumor mongers" before mentioning this so dont get crazy over this information lol. i am saying all this before one of the usual websites reports this again.
aye.

I mean, it's even crazy if it's somewhere around 2080 level.
 

Desfrog

Member
Oct 29, 2017
700
some more details from splitscreen podcast by jason:
  • says that he has heard of the PS5 launch games, and that they are PS5 only, will probably make an article about it in the future
  • didnt hear about what MS's games, but assume they will target xbox one, PC and Scarlett, like Halo Infinite
Thank you for the info. Even if it is just from Sony's first party it's still exciting that we will be getting true next gen games at launch.
 
Feb 26, 2018
2,724
Lockhart spec roundup
Near Pro power - so 4TF GCN (if I understand this correctly) - so even less than if we convert it to RDNA TF
Downclocked CPU - no idea how much
Significantly less RAM
SSD confirmed
Correct me if I'm wrong people


My thoughts: so its gonna be nearly 3 times less GPU power (if Anaconda is 10-11TF beast) with downclocked cpu and less ram. This is will surely affect the ambition of next gen.
And the other thing. Its the second time we are getting info that MS won't leave xbox one behind. So it makes sense that MS doesn't really care about the next gen jump. They want as many people in the ecosystem as possible so that's why they gonna target as many devices as they can no matter the cost. Which makes sense for their new subscription based business
 

Thera

Member
Feb 28, 2019
2,569
  • says that he has heard of the PS5 launch games, and that they are PS5 only, will probably make an article about it in the future
We still don't know what is the strategy for making "PS4 community and transition it to PS5 at a scale and pace that we've never delivered before."
There are a lot of things to do to achieve that. The first things is unit available in store, something they failed to do with PS4.
But what next, what is THE things that make you buy a console when you aren't an early adopters? Exclusivity and / or better at manage 3rd party. So I start to be convinced the first 6 months line up of PS5 will be huge. I think, those past 2-3 years, Sony must have asked a lot of their first party to focus on next gen, explaining the recent little output of PS4 games.
If those studios managed to take advantage of the SSD and showed us mecanisms never seen before, they can make a big hit.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
I actually don't hate that. It would be funny if Lockhart tamping down on developer vision had a silver lining in producing better framerates on the higher end machines.
For this gen think some devs might give you the choice like [email protected] or [email protected]
For certain if we get mid gen upgrades it will be that way .

We still don't know what is the strategy for making "PS4 community and transition it to PS5 at a scale and pace that we've never delivered before."
There are a lot of things to do to achieve that. The first things is unit available in store, something they failed to do with PS4.
But what next, what is THE things that make you buy a console when you aren't an early adopters? Exclusivity and / or better at manage 3rd party. So I start to be convinced the first 6 months line up of PS5 will be huge. I think, those past 2-3 years, Sony must have asked a lot of their first party to focus on next gen, explaining the recent little output of PS4 games.
If those studios managed to take advantage of the SSD and showed us mecanisms never seen before, they can make a big hit.
If Sony can get out there games a illtle faster the first 2 to 3 years going to have some crazy strong IP.
We could be looking at HZD2 , GOW2 , spdiey 2, DG2 , maybe rumour UC game and what ever else they have cooking up.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,005
again, big grain of salt on this, he specifically called out "rumor mongers" before mentioning this so dont get crazy over this information lol. i am saying all this before one of the usual websites reports this again.
Not really, 10-11tf is lining up with other info, a rtx 2080 is not that much more powerful then a RX5700 xt.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
4,829
Thank you for the info. Even if it is just from Sony's first party it's still exciting that we will be getting true next gen games at launch.
Well, mostly. I'm really, really interested to see how the Demon's Souls Remake actually works because if it was just a graphical update like SotC, it wouldn't make a huge amount of sense to make it a PS5 exclusive since the base game logic should really be doable on PS4, unlike totally new titles. They must be drastically expanding the scope.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
8,503
We still don't know what is the strategy for making "PS4 community and transition it to PS5 at a scale and pace that we've never delivered before."
There are a lot of things to do to achieve that. The first things is unit available in store, something they failed to do with PS4.
But what next, what is THE things that make you buy a console when you aren't an early adopters? Exclusivity and / or better at manage 3rd party. So I start to be convinced the first 6 months line up of PS5 will be huge. I think, those past 2-3 years, Sony must have asked a lot of their first party to focus on next gen, explaining the recent little output of PS4 games.
If those studios managed to take advantage of the SSD and showed us mecanisms never seen before, they can make a big hit.
if they can really get Horizon 2, Spiderman 2 and God of War 2, all fairly early in the generation, then they will have a bunch of hits in quick succession with a large market appeal.
 

Adookah

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,768
Sarajevo
If the new consoles really are ~2080 level then the gimp really has no place existing, it absolutely will hold back games from day one of their inception.

Imagine the possibilities... now, team, reel them back a bit 'cause we've got to cram this masterpiece into a gimpy discount box.


Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| Lockhart is such an terrible idea, please Phil don't do this.
😁😁😁😁
 

DavidDesu

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,661
Glasgow, Scotland
Unless there is a huge gulf in price between Lockhart and the higher powered next gen consoles, I simply don’t see Lockhart selling at all well, certainly not during the launch period if they’re coming together. So game design by third parties and on Xbox will be hamstrung (to what degree we don’t know but I feel it could be significant enough to warrant mention) and all for a console that will only have a small base. It may grow over the years, but it may also sink if the performance just isn’t up to snuff. Plus with more and more people going 4K, a console that might end up focusing on 1080p feels way way off.

Yeah I just don’t get it. If Lockhart comes AFTER the main consoles lunch it makes even less sense, with Microsoft willingly holding back their games for a period of time for a system that isn’t even out yet.
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,944
again, big grain of salt on this, he specifically called out "rumor mongers" before mentioning this so dont get crazy over this information lol. i am saying all this before one of the usual websites reports this again.
Honestly, as we see that even Matt was surprised, I would take anything we currently know with a huge grain of salt, besides the fact that Lockhart exists.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,005
We still don't know what is the strategy for making "PS4 community and transition it to PS5 at a scale and pace that we've never delivered before."
There are a lot of things to do to achieve that. The first things is unit available in store, something they failed to do with PS4.
But what next, what is THE things that make you buy a console when you aren't an early adopters? Exclusivity and / or better at manage 3rd party. So I start to be convinced the first 6 months line up of PS5 will be huge. I think, those past 2-3 years, Sony must have asked a lot of their first party to focus on next gen, explaining the recent little output of PS4 games.
If those studios managed to take advantage of the SSD and showed us mecanisms never seen before, they can make a big hit.
It can't be that huge because a lot of Sony devs have released big games not to long ago. Q4 2021+22 will be big.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
3,653
We still don't know what is the strategy for making "PS4 community and transition it to PS5 at a scale and pace that we've never delivered before."
There are a lot of things to do to achieve that. The first things is unit available in store, something they failed to do with PS4.
But what next, what is THE things that make you buy a console when you aren't an early adopters? Exclusivity and / or better at manage 3rd party. So I start to be convinced the first 6 months line up of PS5 will be huge. I think, those past 2-3 years, Sony must have asked a lot of their first party to focus on next gen, explaining the recent little output of PS4 games.
If those studios managed to take advantage of the SSD and showed us mecanisms never seen before, they can make a big hit.
The single biggest thing would be a perceived bargain price.
 

-Le Monde-

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
2,963
We still don't know what is the strategy for making "PS4 community and transition it to PS5 at a scale and pace that we've never delivered before."
There are a lot of things to do to achieve that. The first things is unit available in store, something they failed to do with PS4.
But what next, what is THE things that make you buy a console when you aren't an early adopters? Exclusivity and / or better at manage 3rd party. So I start to be convinced the first 6 months line up of PS5 will be huge. I think, those past 2-3 years, Sony must have asked a lot of their first party to focus on next gen, explaining the recent little output of PS4 games.
If those studios managed to take advantage of the SSD and showed us mecanisms never seen before, they can make a big hit.
If they manage to release Horizon, and Spidey sequels in the next two years. 😱

The previous games already look stunning, can’t imagine how good it’s going to look.
 

Thera

Member
Feb 28, 2019
2,569
if they can really get Horizon 2, Spiderman 2 and God of War 2, all fairly early in the generation, then they will have a bunch of hits in quick succession with a large market appeal.
Horizon for the beginning of the year, DLC at the end of it.
Spider Man "3" is planned for 14 july 2021, so I think they can take full advantage of it.
 

Desfrog

Member
Oct 29, 2017
700
Well, mostly. I'm really, really interested to see how the Demon's Souls Remake actually works because if it was just a graphical update like SotC, it wouldn't make a huge amount of sense to make it a PS5 exclusive since the base game logic should really be doable on PS4, unlike totally new titles. They must be drastically expanding the scope.
Yeah that is a good point. I guess even working on a remake not worrying about old ass tech will let Bluepoint be way more ambitious in terms of fidelity even if the scope isn't massively expanded.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,723
Aaanyway, if both next gen consoles are REALLY better than 2080 and Anaconda is around PS4 Pro

I second the please Phil dont do this crowd.
 
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