Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

kungfuian

Member
Jan 24, 2018
148
Yeah... I don't know a lot about the calculations and whatnot, but even I know that 72 CU's at the proposed 2 GHz clock speed would be ludicrously powerful.

Still, maybe there's some room to play with the numbers? Are there any other CU numbers for a butterfly configuration that would work and allow proper BC? While I have no proof of anything, I would like to think Cerny might have been testing design ideas for the PS5 when he made the Pro. If the butterfly design worked there then why not on the PS5? Were there any real downsides?
My random guess for PS5 target is-

54 x 128 x 1900 = 13.1 TF

(54 is a nice number for back compat because x3 of PS4s 18 cus)
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,476
Yeah... I don't know a lot about the calculations and whatnot, but even I know that 72 CU's at the proposed 2 GHz clock speed would be ludicrously powerful.

Still, maybe there's some room to play with the numbers? Are there any other CU numbers for a butterfly configuration that would work and allow proper BC? While I have no proof of anything, I would like to think Cerny might have been testing design ideas for the PS5 when he made the Pro. If the butterfly design worked there then why not on the PS5? Were there any real downsides?
I dont want to get caught up on thinking too much about the butterfly design. It's a simple solution to make a mid gen console upgrade, but that doesn't mean that it's the only way to have BC.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,461
My random guess for PS5 target is-

54 x 128 x 1900 = 13.1 TF

(54 is a nice number for back compat because x3 of PS4s 18 cus)
Interesting... triple butterfly design maybe? Or would it just be simpler to not split it up and just have 56 CU's?

Also, anyone know where we stand on the chiplet subject? I recall asking a few months ago but honestly don't recall what was discussed. Are we likely to see chiplets on 7nm or are they being relegated to 7nm+ and beyond?
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,461
I dont want to get caught up on thinking too much about the butterfly design. It's a simple solution to make a mid gen console upgrade, but that doesn't mean that it's the only way to have BC.
Fair enough, just my brain coming up with possibilities based on my relatively limited knowledge :)

Anyways, as far as Anaconda and the PS5 are concerned I'll echo my thoughts from last year in that both systems will have advantages over the other. It could be GPU, CPU, SSD, RAM, RT implementation, 3D audio or something else, but the TF figure is only going to be a part of the whole picture. So one machine could have a higher TF count and the other could use faster RAM or a faster SSD that allows more flexibility in game design and balances the scales for example.

Based on the rumors so far there's a POSSIBILITY that Sony could take the edge on the SSD front since there seems to be more mystery surrounding their implementation over MS's, plus we have that patent of theirs and the possibility of ReRAM being involved in their setup. With regards to RAM, MS has already tipped their hand by letting us know it's GDDR6. Whatever Sony puts in the PS5 it will at the very least match it by being GDDR6, but of course the amount of RAM could vary. Again there is the POSSIBILITY that Sony could try to aim higher by going for HBM2 or HBM3, but I don't think we've heard any real rumors on that front in a long while.
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
5,044
Another thought I had...

While Lockhart may (or will) indeed make up the bulk of next-gen Xbox sales, going forward after 2020/2021, 3rd party devs are going to want to target the overall baseline of new hardware (PC, PS5, Stadia, plus those who have Anaconda) which will all be 10+ TFlops. So Lockhart may end up getting downports in terms of graphical detail, lighting, etc. and with lower framerates (even at just 1080p).

We all saw what happened with XBox One even at the start of this generation. A lot of 900p/720p resolution
 

Mseditor

Member
Nov 16, 2019
43
What if Ps5 9.2 - 10.25 tfs $400, ps5 pro 12.95 - 14tfs $500 also that makes rumors about ps5 weaker than scarlett true,but also makes other leaks about ps5 more powerful true.
 

Psyrgery

Member
Nov 7, 2017
723
Perhaps Ps5 is 50/52 CUs clocked at 2.0Ghz. That would really give it an edge over Scarlett, and such edge matches with what developers have been saying about the power difference between the two consoles.
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,785
So basically, this is the probably the best source we have on PS5 having more than 40 CUs?




We dont know PS5's CU count. Even Komachi didn't. The best we can get is that it's possibly 40 CUs, or more.​
If anything, in case you want to consider this rumor to be credible that is, then 40CUs have to be taken off the table. It has to be more.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,461
Idk if Navi allows for 3 shader engines. It's more likely for the PS5 to be 72CUs. 9WGP per shader engine, 4 shader engines total, or 18WGP per shader engine, 2 shader engines total.
You heard it here first folks, the PS5 uses 72 CU's!!! :D

lol, kidding, kidding. Still I just found it kinda odd that the butterfly nature of the Pro doesn't seem to get discussed when talking about the PS5. Sure it was probably an easier implementation for a mid-gen upgrade but it's also the last project done by the same system architect that is making the PS5 so to me it kinda makes sense to look at his last work to see where his mind might be at.

Incidentally, can the butterfly be achieved with 2 Navi chiplets? :)
 

Raylan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
502
It did tho 0.0

lol this is something I've had to explain too many times but really those tweets mean nothing.
It didnt 0.0

Let's go with the official numbers we have. The PS3 launched one year later and still outsold the Xbox 360. And if MS won't give us an updated number to prove otherwise, it's what it is.
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,437
If we go by how many consoles got sold overall, it did not <.<
Here we go again... Or better not.

Let's go with the official numbers we have. The PS3 launched one year later and still outsold the Xbox 360. And if MS won't give us an updated number to prove otherwise, it's what it is.
Incomplete data it is. But this is not really the right place to talk about it, there were already two threads for it.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,806
Barcelona Spain
That’s why I think “true” next-gen will be making those worlds actually feel alive. For example, the tree may not look better, but perhaps its branches realistically sway with the wind, thin branches bend when carrying snow, individually break off etc.

This is what current-gen lacks. The worlds are totally static and barely react to anything.
You really think we can't do better vegetation than current gen?

Watch Avatar movie there is better vegetation than current gen games.
 

Banamy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
761
Personally I wasnt impressed by the halo infinite E3 2019 trailer, nothing in it looked impossible for current gen, which makes sense considering it is a current gen game with a higher resolution, framerates and some increased setting quality rather than a ground up next gen scarlett game.

the halo infinite trailer was also shown at the Xbox Scarlett segement, implying their target is 4k60 on Anaconda, not X1X, so its not crazy to think that those Sony will games will get 4k 60 patches too.
But the engine was built from the ground up for next gen? They literally took an extra 2 years of game dev to create it. It's called the SlipSpace engine.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,984
Imo rtx is kind of a scam at this point. I’ll take the overall IQ over the effects. I’m worried consoles are gonna fall into the same trap. It’s not ready yet.

like metro, control, cod, etc, I’d rather run at higher res and FPS than turning on the rtx.
On pc it’s still baby steps plus patches plus brute forcing/tweaking settings to get it working well

On console With fixed specs and likely lower performance I think we will be ok. I don’t think we’ll see brute force full RTX approaches, but the hardware will be used to accelerate and make viable new lighting techniques, augmenting smart approaches
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
7,368
But the engine was built from the ground up for next gen? They literally took an extra 2 years of game dev to create it.
"engine was built from the ground up for next gen" sounds like random buzz words. their engine supports PC, X1 and Scarlett.
a game being built from the ground up for next gen means not held back by current gen shackles, design around 7x faster CPU, 40x faster SSD, etc.
Fact is, the Halo E3 2019 trailer didnt show any use of the SSD, and no use of the improved CPU tech, other than 2x the framerate (again, the CPU is estimated to be 7x faster, maybe even better considering the 3.5Ghz which is more than expected).

A next gen game will look very different than what the Halo Infinite cutscene has shown.
 

Raylan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
502
Here we go again... Or better not.
Well maybe you better not.

Incomplete data it is. But this is not really the right place to talk about it, there were already two threads for it.
Incomplete data indeed. If MS refuses to update their number let's go with the official numbers we have. It is what it is.
Anyway this is indeed not the right thread to talk about that. We better get some PS5 and Scarlett leaks soon. This thread needs more fuel.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,806
Barcelona Spain
"engine was built from the ground up for next gen" sounds like random buzz words. their engine supports PC, X1 and Scarlett.
a game being built from the ground up for next gen means not held back by current gen shackles, design around 7x faster CPU, 40x faster SSD, etc.
Fact is, the Halo E3 2019 trailer didnt show any use of the SSD, and no use of the improved CPU tech, other than 2x the framerate (again, the CPU is estimated to be 7x faster, maybe even better considering the 3.5Ghz which is more than expected).

A next gen game will look very different than what the Halo Infinite cutscene has shown.
The vector unit code coming from AVX 128 to AVX 256 will even run faster probably more than 10 times faster. In theory 12 to 14 times faster.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,292
Florida
Fair enough, just my brain coming up with possibilities based on my relatively limited knowledge :)

Anyways, as far as Anaconda and the PS5 are concerned I'll echo my thoughts from last year in that both systems will have advantages over the other. It could be GPU, CPU, SSD, RAM, RT implementation, 3D audio or something else, but the TF figure is only going to be a part of the whole picture. So one machine could have a higher TF count and the other could use faster RAM or a faster SSD that allows more flexibility in game design and balances the scales for example.

Based on the rumors so far there's a POSSIBILITY that Sony could take the edge on the SSD front since there seems to be more mystery surrounding their implementation over MS's, plus we have that patent of theirs and the possibility of ReRAM being involved in their setup. With regards to RAM, MS has already tipped their hand by letting us know it's GDDR6. Whatever Sony puts in the PS5 it will at the very least match it by being GDDR6, but of course the amount of RAM could vary. Again there is the POSSIBILITY that Sony could try to aim higher by going for HBM2 or HBM3, but I don't think we've heard any real rumors on that front in a long while.
So basically you're saying that the consoles won't be exactly the same and both could use RAM of some sort. I don't mean this in a snarky way so please don't take offense but yeah.. for sure. HBM would be cool just to see something different but unlikely.

Perhaps Ps5 is 50/52 CUs clocked at 2.0Ghz. That would really give it an edge over Scarlett, and such edge matches with what developers have been saying about the power difference between the two consoles.
Perhaps the consoles are very close to each other like insiders have said. Or maybe they'll make a console with a nitrous boost button for the heavy scenes... We'll just never know.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,461
So basically you're saying that the consoles won't be exactly the same and both could use RAM of some sort. I don't mean this in a snarky way so please don't take offense but yeah.. for sure. HBM would be cool just to see something different but unlikely.
lol, I'm pointing out that there are multiple opportunities for one console to shine over the other with regards to specific features. I was using the SSD and the RAM as examples. With the SSD Sony COULD have an edge based on what little we know, and on the RAM front at the very worst Sony should be using the same type of RAM MS has already announced for Anaconda, and there's the potential for them to aim for faster RAM based on all the discussion that's been going on the past year or so here.

By that same token I'm sure there will be certain aspects of Anaconda that will be superior to what the PS5 can do. Maybe it is the GPU and CPU, or maybe it's something else. Whatever these consoles end up being in the end, I am confident that the TF number alone will not tell the full story of one being better than the other.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,292
Florida
lol, I'm pointing out that there are multiple opportunities for one console to shine over the other with regards to specific features. I was using the SSD and the RAM as examples. With the SSD Sony COULD have an edge based on what little we know, and on the RAM front at the very worst Sony should be using the same type of RAM MS has already announced for Anaconda, and there's the potential for them to aim for faster RAM based on all the discussion that's been going on the past year or so here.

By that same token I'm sure there will be certain aspects of Anaconda that will be superior to what the PS5 can do. Maybe it is the GPU and CPU, or maybe it's something else. Whatever these consoles end up being in the end, I am confident that the TF number alone will not tell the full story of one being better than the other.
The little things will make DF videos fun. We can all pretend to have the superior version because if you look at the tie of the character in the background you can see that the lines are blurrier when you zoom in 20x.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,461
The little things will make DF videos fun. We can all pretend to have the superior version because if you look at the tie of the character in the background you can see that the lines are blurrier when you zoom in 20x.
lol, yup. I forsee a LOT of nitpicking over fine details for warriors to claim their box is superior because it can do XYZ better in this scneario while on the other side they're saying theirs is better because it can do ABC better in another scneario.

I look forward to seeing it all play out :)