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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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We can see the same thing on consoles. Xbox One/X and PS4/Pro. Devs take their same games and easily take advantage of both the lower end and higher end consoles by scaling resolution to match GPU.
Switch is completely different. It uses an ARM CPU, has half the memory, and severe storage limitations. That's fundamentally different than two versions of the same consoles with the same CPU, same APIs, and same everything, but just a difference in GPU size.
Not true. Poly-count and everything stays the same. It's just changing resolution values. Lockhart would run the same exact games that Anaconda is running, except instead of running them at around 4K, they'd run at around 1080p. Again, we literally have precedent for this. It works.
Dudes just making videos for them subs. It's a booming business for growth.
Lockhart still existing makes sense. It'll be the next-gen Xbox One S if anything, but I don't see why it'd come any time soon. Should be 3-4 years after Scarlett.
500GB SSD is not enough for anyone when games are 120GB+. That's barely four games, all the casual gamers I know are already sick of doing storage management on current consoles. Halving current storage would be a bad move.
I think that MS should launch 1 SKU in 2020, see how things progress and then decide on whether Lockhart is worth introducing to the console market.
It's really not that simple though, there is a general belief that all NG games will be 4K, but really it's highly likely devs are gonna go crazy with temporal reconstruction, VRS, dynamic resolutions etc, 8.3 million pixels is just too much when the GPU leap isn't that big this time.
Lockhart will be a massive pain & cause multiplats to get destroyed visually by PS5 exclusives.
Its canned but Lockhart was the idea of a budget sku which would have likely used binned chips. If such a device existed this gen it would be below the original Xbox one in the lineup.
The S example is a hardware refresh for cost savings. It is more or less the same as a launch unit.
Even if games are 1800p or temporally reconstructed 4K or dynamic 4K or whatever, the same thing can be applied to the budget console, just at quarter resolution. So 1800p would translate to roughly 900p.
If you think that devs will target 1080p on Anaconda, then I'd agree that Lockhart would be a problem since 540p is ridiculous. But I really can't see that happening. 2017 produced a console that already has games targeting 4K or close to it. The high end consoles of 2020 won't go backwards. They'll probably stick to the same resolutions or a little higher on average, and then increase the quality of the pixels. No way they go back to 1080p.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of devs continue to target 1440p, since with good TAA it holds up well on a 4K screen, most people think SOTC, Uncharted 4 etc are 4K.
Maybe. But 1440p is pretty far below the average resolution on X.
1440p on Anaconda would translate to 720p on Lockhart (assuming quarter GPU size), which would be pretty bad, but possibly acceptable with a cheap price and very high quality pixels.
But again, I don't think we'll see average resolutions of 1440p on Anaconda. I think it'll be closer to 4K. X is already closer to 4K, and I don't think we'll be going backwards.
It would actually be interesting if mid-gen refreshes were just add-on hardware (of the 32X style). I suppose cooling would make it way too bulky/inefficient to ever be a reality, but it's an interesting concept.
Targeting native 4k will be popular in first few years of nextgen consoles, with more advnced nextgen engines we will se more reconsteuctions resolution technics. And lets not forget games will use some rt effects also.
No, but feel free to go back and search the old thread. It was around E3 time.
I have no doubt we'll see reconstruction, even in the beginning. But the general target will be approximately 4K (that does not mean 100% native 4K), meaning you can scale to Lockhart easily with quarter resolution. Checkerboard 4K or 1800p is still miles above 1080p.
PS5/Anaconda: 1440p temporal upscaled to 4k 120fps. Further upscaled to 8K using super scaling.
Lockhart is 720p temporal upscaled to 1080p 120fps. Further upscaled to 4k using super scaling.
Ray tracing is enabled on both.
Your eyes will melt. 🤩
Lockhart is 720p temporal upscaled to 1080p 120fps. Further upscaled to 4k using super scaling.
Ray tracing is enabled on both.
Your eyes will melt. 🤩
I just looked at Zhuge's profile for the whole year, and I see nothing about Lockhart being cancelled.
Lol so many ppl missing the mark.
He said Lockheart might come AFTER scarlet launch. Which is why it makes no sense.
It does indeed make a difference. And it's likely not a thing based in reality.
Regardless what you skimmed in 3seconds, Lockheart has been cancelled according to multiple insiders, including the guy who tweeted about it again, for about a year. No one is required to do your homework.
He said Lockheart might come AFTER scarlet launch. Which is why it makes no sense.
It does indeed make a difference. And it's likely not a thing based in reality.
dude
Regardless what you skimmed in 3seconds, Lockheart has been cancelled according to multiple insiders, including the guy who tweeted about it again, for about a year. No one is required to do your homework.
I would imagine that if there is 4tf lockhart you would see ps5 exclusives visually ahead of microsoft's one targeting both lockhart and scarlett. But eot from my side. I hope Microsoft listen to devs (as df reporting) and lockhart is dead.
Thanks. I must've missed it since he didn't say Lockhart explicitly. Seems pretty clear though.
How so? Let's say PS5 and Anaconda are 8 TF and Lockhart is 2 TF. The same exact games would run on all 3, but they'd be around 4K on PS5 and Anaconda and around 1080p on Lockhart. Lockhart doesn't hold anything back if the main difference is GPU. GPU delta can be solved via resolution. We see this already today.
And if they target 1080p with a shit load of graphical effects... Those games will run at 540p on Lockhart?
1080p on PS5 and Anaconda? Yes, that would be 540p on Lockhart. I already mentioned that. So in that case Lockhart obviously wouldn't be viable.
But do you really think that devs are gonna go back to targeting 1080p on high end 2020 consoles when they're currently targeting 4K on a 2017 console? No way.
Lockhart, if it exists, should be a complete afterthought for devs. They shouldn't even keep in in mind when developing nextgen games.
If the time comes after release, sure port it over like a Switch port. But don't even think about it prior to that, waste of time and effort.
How would it be an afterthought? Design your game for Scarlett. On the Anaconda version of Scarlett, set the resolution to 3840x2160. On the Lockhart version of Scarlett, set the resolution to 1920x1080. There's no element of an "afterthought" here. It's the same game on two tiers of GPUs, and you can easily scale it across both via resolution.
MS are wizards (xb1 bc is awesome) but I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around a weaker console launched later that is compatable with previously released games without Dev rework. At the very least you would need to qa those games. It just doesn't seem feasible to me.
Today marks the 25th anniversary of the PlayStation brand, now what are the chances that we'll hear anything PS5 related today?
Yep.
The only way this happens if Lockhart is Xcloud only at launch. After Lockhart launches only games that were on Gamepass would be able to be played on Lockhart.
It'll be a clusterfuck.
I believe Lockhart is same day or before Scarlett.
Close to zero. Probably hear something in the beginning of next year to get the ball rolling.
Would be happy to be wrong though. Sony has no reason to promote the PS5 during this Christmas season.
Man, how silly do those devs that complained about Lockhart look? All they had to do was set "output_resolution" to 1920x1080!
Lockhart was most likely part of the sandwich strategy when they tought Sony was launching a 8TFLOPS $399 PS5 in 2019. They wanted a high end product at probably $499 and an entry one with detuned graphics at $199 or whatever. When it became obvious that Sony was aiming for 2020 for (most likely) a product equal to power to Scarlett, Lockhart become pointless.
Right, even if this solution is feasible, I highly doubt it would be "easy". Game development and easy (especially to the extent that is being suggested here) don't exactly go hand in hand.
Edit - I understood that reference too, Nediar.
I don't understand why devs would have so much trouble with 4TF Navi. It'll run circles around the GTX 1060, which is the most popular GPU.
I think the devs that complained are the console only Indies that have limited resources.
If Lockhart v.2 is coming out after Scarlett's launch, it makes sense if it's just a discless, 500GB model.
If it's like the One S, then it will be competing against the PS5.
The One S was competing against the base PS4 and PS4 Slim.
I guess that's a strategy if they try to put the PS5 in between it and Scarlett. If not...that's a bold move.
The S also competed against the OG model, and outright replaced it eventually. If Lockhart is a smaller-scale Scarlett, it could be poised at competing with Xbox One X the same way the S took on the OG XO.
Tbh I can't see why they'd do Lockhart at launch. If anything, I think a streaming-only stick for Game Pass/xCloud would be more viable in 2020/2021, and perhaps Lockhart in 2023? What do you think?
BTW: Gnomesayin' for old-school J-to-the-ROC vibes lol.
Geometry is part done in compute too, true for current gen games. And the performance is nearly as good as mesh shader from what I read on dev twitter.
Here an example of compute and mesh shader
Mesh shader replaces the full geometry fixed-function if I understand well.
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How is that gonna work when the difference between PS5 and Scarlett is said to be negligible?
Hey, I didnt say it made sense. Just trying to figure out what that poster meant about Lockhart could be like the One S.
I think like many here think: its either a low spec version or for something else. But I would think the Anaconda would be competing with the PS5. And Lockhart a cheaper version.
The thing about the One X is it was a mid gen refresh with higher specs. If they were to launch at the same time, to me Lockhart would be more like the Xbox One SAD. Instead of the orig One S.
So, what would be the base console? Or are you thinking a 2 console launch approach?
See....its getting complicated now, lol.
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Is that not the way Brad Sams described it in one of his videos?
By the way, how did Mark Cerny describe the porting process on the PS4/PS4 Pro? He said it was a simple process, IIRC that could be done by a single developer, Microsoft intimated the same.
I always find it amazing at how people will always skip those comments when it really suits.
It is not that this is not known. Dr Keo showed how games mainly scale along with resolution, so long as there was overhead in the lower spec, even things like frame rates would hold true. The fear that exists is that developers might start developing for the lower spec console, and that is what drives people crazy in this thread......nothing else.
Yes, but it turns out not all developers are willing to make that process. Bloodborne is the most famous example. Some like Overwatch, did some very minor upgrades.
You'd still be taking manpower from the team.
It would be really interesting if they develop an auto-downscaler though.
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