Oh, really? I must've missed that. Do you have a link?Klee, Matt and Zhuge acknowledged around that time that Lockhart was canned in late 2018.
Oh, really? I must've missed that. Do you have a link?Klee, Matt and Zhuge acknowledged around that time that Lockhart was canned in late 2018.
We can see the same thing on consoles. Xbox One/X and PS4/Pro. Devs take their same games and easily take advantage of both the lower end and higher end consoles by scaling resolution to match GPU.From what I understand, console ports make much more comprehensive use of asynchronous GPU compute than PC, mainly due to the ACE improvements on PS4, the additional bus, as well as the unified memory architecture which is unique to consoles.
So looking at how PC games scale can be rather misleading, due to the difference in system architecture, PC ports are developed differently.
Switch is completely different. It uses an ARM CPU, has half the memory, and severe storage limitations. That's fundamentally different than two versions of the same consoles with the same CPU, same APIs, and same everything, but just a difference in GPU size.This might be a convincing argument if the Switch got every third party game day and date. It's gotten a selection of a few choice third party ports but it mostly ignored. This tells us that porting games to it isn't trivial and in many cases (as attested by the devs themselves) isn't possible at all.
Not true. Poly-count and everything stays the same. It's just changing resolution values. Lockhart would run the same exact games that Anaconda is running, except instead of running them at around 4K, they'd run at around 1080p. Again, we literally have precedent for this. It works.If devs are targeting a pathetic Lockhart spec from the outset, they will just have to manually create even lower poly LOD models for that platform. It's more unwanted manual legwork, but if they're forced to, they'll have to get on with it.
Dudes just making videos for them subs. It's a booming business for growth.smh.
We need to hear from Richard Leadbetter on Digital Foundry to either get some corroboration or to debunk this.
My bad. Don't post much around here.Please use multi-quote instead of making several posts. Thanks.
If Lockhart really is a thing it's not for us. It's for the COD/NBA 2K/Madden with the occasional Assassin's Creed crowd. 500GB SSD is fine for them. Delete NBA 2K20 when NBA 2K21 comes out.
Not true. Poly-count and everything stays the same. It's just changing resolution values. Lockhart would run the same exact games that Anaconda is running, except instead of running them at around 4K, they'd run at around 1080p. Again, we literally have precedent for this. It works.
Lockhart still existing makes sense. It'll be the next-gen Xbox One S if anything, but I don't see why it'd come any time soon. Should be 3-4 years after Scarlett.
Even if games are 1800p or temporally reconstructed 4K or dynamic 4K or whatever, the same thing can be applied to the budget console, just at quarter resolution. So 1800p would translate to roughly 900p.It's really not that simple though, there is a general belief that all NG games will be 4K, but really it's highly likely devs are gonna go crazy with temporal reconstruction, VRS, dynamic resolutions etc, 8.3 million pixels is just too much when the GPU leap isn't that big this time.
Lockhart will be a massive pain & cause multiplats to get destroyed visually by PS5 exclusives.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of devs continue to target 1440p, since with good TAA it holds up well on a 4K screen, most people think SOTC, Uncharted 4 etc are 4K.Even if games are 1800p or temporally reconstructed 4K or dynamic 4K or whatever, the same thing can be applied to the budget console, just at quarter resolution. So 1800p would translate to roughly 900p.
If you think that devs will target 1080p on Anaconda, then I'd agree that Lockhart would be a problem since 540p is ridiculous. But I really can't see that happening. 2017 produced a console that already has games targeting 4K or close to it. The high end consoles of 2020 won't go backwards. They'll probably stick to the same resolutions or a little higher on average, and then increase the quality of the pixels. No way they go back to 1080p.
Maybe. But 1440p is pretty far below the average resolution on X.I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of devs continue to target 1440p, since with good TAA it holds up well on a 4K screen, most people think SOTC, Uncharted 4 etc are 4K.
It would actually be interesting if mid-gen refreshes were just add-on hardware (of the 32X style). I suppose cooling would make it way too bulky/inefficient to ever be a reality, but it's an interesting concept.Ah you people put so much effort into Lockhart and can't really understand what it really is, but I've seen the truth.
Scarlet, as an SKU is less powerful than PS5 because it's around 9tflops whereas Ps5 is around the 11tflops ballpark.
Lockhart exists, but not as an SKU, but as an addon instead. Think of it as the 32X for the MegaDrive or the expansion pack on the N64. Lockhart REALLY is 4tflops, it has a second gpu, 4 extra gigs of ram and 512 gigs of fast storage.
Combining Lockhart and Scarlett you get ANACONDA, the surprising (Tom Warren was right when he said Ms would surprise Sony) 13 Tflops beast that will dominate single-handedly next-gen.
/fanfic
Targeting native 4k will be popular in first few years of nextgen consoles, with more advnced nextgen engines we will se more reconsteuctions resolution technics. And lets not forget games will use some rt effects also.4 TF is greater than 25% of 11 TF, so it would actually be a bit overkill if it was designed to play the same games at 1080p rather than Anaconda's 4K.
No, but feel free to go back and search the old thread. It was around E3 time.
I have no doubt we'll see reconstruction, even in the beginning. But the general target will be approximately 4K (that does not mean 100% native 4K), meaning you can scale to Lockhart easily with quarter resolution. Checkerboard 4K or 1800p is still miles above 1080p.Targeting native 4k will be popular in first few years of nextgen consoles, with more advnced nextgen engines we will se more reconsteuctions resolution technics
I just looked at Zhuge's profile for the whole year, and I see nothing about Lockhart being cancelled.No, but feel free to go back and search the old thread. It was around E3 time.
dudeI just looked at Zhuge's profile for the whole year, and I see nothing about Lockhart being cancelled.
I just looked at Zhuge's profile for the whole year, and I see nothing about Lockhart being cancelled.
I would imagine that if there is 4tf lockhart you would see ps5 exclusives visually ahead of microsoft's one targeting both lockhart and scarlett. But eot from my side. I hope Microsoft listen to devs (as df reporting) and lockhart is dead.I have no doubt we'll see reconstruction, even in the beginning. But the general target will be approximately 4K (that does not mean 100% native 4K), meaning you can scale to Lockhart easily with quarter resolution. Checkerboard 4K or 1800p is still miles above 1080p.
Might come after leaves a lot of room for wiggling out.Lol so many ppl missing the mark.
He said Lockheart might come AFTER scarlet launch. Which is why it makes no sense.
It does indeed make a difference. And it's likely not a thing based in reality.
dude
Regardless what you skimmed in 3seconds, Lockheart has been cancelled according to multiple insiders, including the guy who tweeted about it again, for about a year. No one is required to do your homework.
Thanks. I must've missed it since he didn't say Lockhart explicitly. Seems pretty clear though.
How so? Let's say PS5 and Anaconda are 8 TF and Lockhart is 2 TF. The same exact games would run on all 3, but they'd be around 4K on PS5 and Anaconda and around 1080p on Lockhart. Lockhart doesn't hold anything back if the main difference is GPU. GPU delta can be solved via resolution. We see this already today.I would imagine that if there is 4tf lockhart you would see ps5 exclusives visually ahead of microsoft's one targeting both lockhart and scarlett. But eot from my side. I hope Microsoft listen to devs (as df reporting) and lockhart is dead.
And if they target 1080p with a shit load of graphical effects... Those games will run at 540p on Lockhart?Thanks. I must've missed it since he didn't say Lockhart explicitly. Seems pretty clear though.
How so? Let's say PS5 and Anaconda are 8 TF and Lockhart is 2 TF. The same exact games would run on all 3, but they'd be around 4K on PS5 and Anaconda and around 1080p on Lockhart. Lockhart doesn't hold anything back if the main difference is GPU. GPU delta can be solved via resolution. We see this already today.
1080p on PS5 and Anaconda? Yes, that would be 540p on Lockhart. I already mentioned that. So in that case Lockhart obviously wouldn't be viable.And if they target 1080p with a shit load of graphical effects... Those games will run at 540p on Lockhart?
Lockhart, if it exists, should be a complete afterthought for devs. They shouldn't even keep in in mind when developing nextgen games.1080p on PS5 and Anaconda? Yes, that would be 540p on Lockhart. I already mentioned that. So in that case Lockhart obviously wouldn't be viable.
But do you really think that devs are gonna go back to targeting 1080p on high end 2020 consoles when they're currently targeting 4K on a 2017 console? No way.
How would it be an afterthought? Design your game for Scarlett. On the Anaconda version of Scarlett, set the resolution to 3840x2160. On the Lockhart version of Scarlett, set the resolution to 1920x1080. There's no element of an "afterthought" here. It's the same game on two tiers of GPUs, and you can easily scale it across both via resolution.Lockhart, if it exists, should be a complete afterthought for devs. They shouldn't even keep in in mind when developing nextgen games.
If the time comes after release, sure port it over like a Switch port. But don't even think about it prior to that, waste of time and effort.
MS are wizards (xb1 bc is awesome) but I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around a weaker console launched later that is compatable with previously released games without Dev rework. At the very least you would need to qa those games. It just doesn't seem feasible to me.
Today marks the 25th anniversary of the PlayStation brand, now what are the chances that we'll hear anything PS5 related today?
Copy and paste the code
Set the resolution to 1080p
Ship it for Lockhart
MS are wizards (xb1 bc is awesome) but I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around a weaker console launched later that is compatable with previously released games without Dev rework. At the very least you would need to qa those games. It just doesn't seem feasible to me.
Copy and paste the code
Set the resolution to 1080p
Ship it for Lockhart
Right, even if this solution is feasible, I highly doubt it would be "easy". Game development and easy (especially to the extent that is being suggested here) don't exactly go hand in hand.Man, how silly do those devs that complained about Lockhart look? All they had to do was set "output_resolution" to 1920x1080!
Copy and paste the code
Set the resolution to 1080p
Ship it for Lockhart
LMAOCopy and paste the code
Set the resolution to 1080p
Ship it for Lockhart
If it's like the One S, then it will be competing against the PS5.Lockhart still existing makes sense. It'll be the next-gen Xbox One S if anything, but I don't see why it'd come any time soon. Should be 3-4 years after Scarlett.
If it's like the One S, then it will be competing against the PS5.
The One S was competing against the base PS4 and PS4 Slim.
I guess that's a strategy if they try to put the PS5 in between it and Scarlett. If not...that's a bold move.
Isn't most geometry processing done in compute now a days? (Part of the reason why we finally have access to barycentric coordinates in pixel shaders etc.)
Nvidia presentation on mesh shaders started with them describing it as compute with direct path to rasterization.
Pretty sure most of it is a safeguards and api to limit it to fit within 16kB? caches and so on.
Before you get to transformations you need the geometry to actually appear and this is handled mostly by FF h/w even today since there isn't a lot to program there.
Setup, tessellation and rasterization are fixed function. All of them are a part of a "geometry processor" I imagine.
Different programming models, same h/w.
Is is really that easy? I dont really think so.How would it be an afterthought? Design your game for Scarlett. On the Anaconda version of Scarlett, set the resolution to 3840x2160. On the Lockhart version of Scarlett, set the resolution to 1920x1080. There's no element of an "afterthought" here. It's the same game on two tiers of GPUs, and you can easily scale it across both via resolution.
If it's like the One S, then it will be competing against the PS5.
The One S was competing against the base PS4 and PS4 Slim.
I guess that's a strategy if they try to put the PS5 in between it and Scarlett. If not...that's a bold move.
Hey, I didnt say it made sense. Just trying to figure out what that poster meant about Lockhart could be like the One S.How is that gonna work when the difference between PS5 and Scarlett is said to be negligible?
The S also competed against the OG model, and outright replaced it eventually. If Lockhart is a smaller-scale Scarlett, it could be poised at competing with Xbox One X the same way the S took on the OG XO.
Tbh I can't see why they'd do Lockhart at launch. If anything, I think a streaming-only stick for Game Pass/xCloud would be more viable in 2020/2021, and perhaps Lockhart in 2023? What do you think?
BTW: Gnomesayin' for old-school J-to-the-ROC vibes lol.
Is that not the way Brad Sams described it in one of his videos?
It is not that this is not known. Dr Keo showed how games mainly scale along with resolution, so long as there was overhead in the lower spec, even things like frame rates would hold true. The fear that exists is that developers might start developing for the lower spec console, and that is what drives people crazy in this thread......nothing else.How would it be an afterthought? Design your game for Scarlett. On the Anaconda version of Scarlett, set the resolution to 3840x2160. On the Lockhart version of Scarlett, set the resolution to 1920x1080. There's no element of an "afterthought" here. It's the same game on two tiers of GPUs, and you can easily scale it across both via resolution.
Yes, but it turns out not all developers are willing to make that process. Bloodborne is the most famous example. Some like Overwatch, did some very minor upgrades.Is that not the way Brad Sams described it in one of his videos?
By the way, how did Mark Cerny describe the porting process on the PS4/PS4 Pro? He said it was a simple process, IIRC that could be done by a single developer, Microsoft intimated the same.