1,5x IPC gain Navi vs whatever is the 1X GPU seems huge, are you sure? Furthermore, as long as the GPU power is concerned the jump should be measured in respect to the 1X/pro imo
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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some more details from splitscreen podcast by jason:
- Repeats the disinterest from developers for lockhart, says it will have significantly less ram, he has heard developers saying the GPU is basically PS4 Pro level, but the CPU and SSD should improve it beyond that, still developers dont want to be forced to work on lockhart and feel that the SKU will hamper next gen games.
- says that he has heard of the PS5 launch games, and that they are PS5 only, will probably make an article about it in the future
- didnt hear about what MS's games, but assume they will target xbox one, PC and Scarlett, like Halo Infinite
- a big focus will be on accessbility, no need to think anymore about "i only have 1 hour should i go play this?" but instead gives the option of "play for 10 minutes and stop like using netflix" per his examples.
- One last thing he said, and he isnt sure of himself and said to not take him by his word, so please dont go crazy over this and lurking journalists beware of making an article an this lol, but he said that PS5 and Anaconda are better than "graphics cards like the RTX 2080, what is currently on the market". But again, BIG grain of salt on that statement, and not nearly definitive enough to make articles on before we are repeating the previous jason post in this thread.
no that was from the article, not the podcast.
Navi is more like 30% IPC increase over polaris.
Thanks for the correction and summary modiz.
Man i can't wait to see Sony games , they going to looking fucking crazy .
I also expect they going really show off next gen .
Two of those games were so economically viable, the founders sold their studios citing "increased financial stability". Not ideal!
Seems in line with what we've been hearing for a long time now.
Not sure about that RTX 2080 thing though, if it gets close to that it will still be awesome.
If MS test a variety of games and perform many different tests they will cover 99.99% of potential issues devs could encounter, so what you are saying is extremely unlikely.
Significantly less RAM would definitely be something different than the GPU difference, that's for sure. But I will wait for proper specs on that front.
Presumably lower resolution textures for 1080p screens need less ram to hold.
Well, I'm just going by the fact that the RX5700 xt is about on par with a 13.82gcn TF radeon 7.
I don't think they would have disappeared if MS wouldn't had bought them. Those statement are maybe true but this the classic PR statement when your studio become first party, you won't say "Oh yeah I like money and the proposition was too good".
|OT8| between a lock and a hart place.
EDIT:
ah seems like BiTheWay already suggested this before me, so give them the credit :)
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From the sound of things and MS focus on frame rates as a focus, it sure feels like the idea is to make the game and build it up for the higher SKUs.
Oh, this is good. This is very good.
I can't tell if you're trying to start a meme or if you're this deluded.
I expect a reduction for display buffer for high vs low res needs, but beyond that, you're again kind of curtailing the dev's choice about how they use memory. Forcing the ratio of graphics-asset:system data. Which is another potential knock to non-graphics things, to non-resolution scalibility, along with whatever cpu downclock there is. It depends how much of a reduction we're talking about, but 'significantly' doesn't sound great.
Wow what a ride this thread has been. Round and round and round and round we go. LOL Do people really not understand the argument that is being made? And what's with the crooked comparison with how PC scale games.
Games are being made with a minimum base and than effect and stuff gets upgraded with more power.
Example: Xbox One --> PC --> PS4 --> PC --> Pro --> PC --> 1x --> PC --> PC --> PC.
If for example the base was 2080 Ti and a 16c/16t 4.2GHZ, games would look so much better and could do so much more than they do now. Consoles wouldn't be able to play them, well unless they turn everything down that it looks and plays like a different game.
Next gen should be about bringing the base line so much higher that games are allowed to become bigger, complex and more inspired.
If MS is really demanding devs to create games for lockheart than that will be the baseline. If the rumored specs (slower CPU/4TF GPU/less memory) for lockheart are real than yeah that's going to hamper next gen.
Games are being made with a minimum base and than effect and stuff gets upgraded with more power.
Example: Xbox One --> PC --> PS4 --> PC --> Pro --> PC --> 1x --> PC --> PC --> PC.
If for example the base was 2080 Ti and a 16c/16t 4.2GHZ, games would look so much better and could do so much more than they do now. Consoles wouldn't be able to play them, well unless they turn everything down that it looks and plays like a different game.
Next gen should be about bringing the base line so much higher that games are allowed to become bigger, complex and more inspired.
If MS is really demanding devs to create games for lockheart than that will be the baseline. If the rumored specs (slower CPU/4TF GPU/less memory) for lockheart are real than yeah that's going to hamper next gen.
rtx 2080 level is about 11rdnaTF.
If lockhart remains 4tf it will run into some problems if devs do 1440p on ana+ps5
Also what gameplay mechanic or visual element do people actually think a potential lockhart would hamper, judging by some reactions it seems like people think if it was not for lockhart ps5/Anaconda would be able to do avatar graphics with a map the size of Pandora.
I've yet to see example of gameplay mechanics and visuals that could not be accomendated by lowering the res and settings for less powerful gpus.
If lockhart remains 4tf it will run into some problems if devs do 1440p on ana+ps5
Also what gameplay mechanic or visual element do people actually think a potential lockhart would hamper, judging by some reactions it seems like people think if it was not for lockhart ps5/Anaconda would be able to do avatar graphics with a map the size of Pandora.
I've yet to see example of gameplay mechanics and visuals that could not be accomendated by lowering the res and settings for less powerful gpus.
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I've been of this mind for a while now too.
They aren't going to be touting 60 frames if their games are next gen only with incredible graphics, physics, AI, particles, expansive and interactive world, destruction, etc.... It is because X1/Lock will be the base and that will allow them to ramp the frames up for Snek.
I have a hard time seeing devs targeting 1440p on these consoles. In the best case, from now on, all games have some sort of dynamic resolution scaling anyway.
If the new consoles really are ~2080 level then the gimp really has no place existing, it absolutely will hold back games from day one of their inception.
Imagine the possibilities... now, team, reel them back a bit 'cause we've got to cram this masterpiece into a gimpy discount box.
Imagine the possibilities... now, team, reel them back a bit 'cause we've got to cram this masterpiece into a gimpy discount box.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| Lockhart is such an terrible idea, please Phil don't do this.
again, big grain of salt on this, he specifically called out "rumor mongers" before mentioning this so dont get crazy over this information lol. i am saying all this before one of the usual websites reports this again.
I actually don't hate that. It would be funny if Lockhart tamping down on developer vision had a silver lining in producing better framerates on the higher end machines.
Or, if we start on more BC debates:
[OT8] The Great Emulation War
Thank you for the info. Even if it is just from Sony's first party it's still exciting that we will be getting true next gen games at launch.
Lockhart spec roundup
Near Pro power - so 4TF GCN (if I understand this correctly) - so even less than if we convert it to RDNA TF
Downclocked CPU - no idea how much
Significantly less RAM
SSD confirmed
Correct me if I'm wrong people
My thoughts: so its gonna be nearly 3 times less GPU power (if Anaconda is 10-11TF beast) with downclocked cpu and less ram. This is will surely affect the ambition of next gen.
And the other thing. Its the second time we are getting info that MS won't leave xbox one behind. So it makes sense that MS doesn't really care about the next gen jump. They want as many people in the ecosystem as possible so that's why they gonna target as many devices as they can no matter the cost. Which makes sense for their new subscription based business
Near Pro power - so 4TF GCN (if I understand this correctly) - so even less than if we convert it to RDNA TF
Downclocked CPU - no idea how much
Significantly less RAM
SSD confirmed
Correct me if I'm wrong people
My thoughts: so its gonna be nearly 3 times less GPU power (if Anaconda is 10-11TF beast) with downclocked cpu and less ram. This is will surely affect the ambition of next gen.
And the other thing. Its the second time we are getting info that MS won't leave xbox one behind. So it makes sense that MS doesn't really care about the next gen jump. They want as many people in the ecosystem as possible so that's why they gonna target as many devices as they can no matter the cost. Which makes sense for their new subscription based business
We still don't know what is the strategy for making "PS4 community and transition it to PS5 at a scale and pace that we've never delivered before."
There are a lot of things to do to achieve that. The first things is unit available in store, something they failed to do with PS4.
But what next, what is THE things that make you buy a console when you aren't an early adopters? Exclusivity and / or better at manage 3rd party. So I start to be convinced the first 6 months line up of PS5 will be huge. I think, those past 2-3 years, Sony must have asked a lot of their first party to focus on next gen, explaining the recent little output of PS4 games.
If those studios managed to take advantage of the SSD and showed us mecanisms never seen before, they can make a big hit.
For this gen think some devs might give you the choice like 4k@30fps or CR4k@60fps.
For certain if we get mid gen upgrades it will be that way .
If Sony can get out there games a illtle faster the first 2 to 3 years going to have some crazy strong IP.
We could be looking at HZD2 , GOW2 , spdiey 2, DG2 , maybe rumour UC game and what ever else they have cooking up.
Not really, 10-11tf is lining up with other info, a rtx 2080 is not that much more powerful then a RX5700 xt.
Well, mostly. I'm really, really interested to see how the Demon's Souls Remake actually works because if it was just a graphical update like SotC, it wouldn't make a huge amount of sense to make it a PS5 exclusive since the base game logic should really be doable on PS4, unlike totally new titles. They must be drastically expanding the scope.
if they can really get Horizon 2, Spiderman 2 and God of War 2, all fairly early in the generation, then they will have a bunch of hits in quick succession with a large market appeal.
Unless there is a huge gulf in price between Lockhart and the higher powered next gen consoles, I simply don't see Lockhart selling at all well, certainly not during the launch period if they're coming together. So game design by third parties and on Xbox will be hamstrung (to what degree we don't know but I feel it could be significant enough to warrant mention) and all for a console that will only have a small base. It may grow over the years, but it may also sink if the performance just isn't up to snuff. Plus with more and more people going 4K, a console that might end up focusing on 1080p feels way way off.
Yeah I just don't get it. If Lockhart comes AFTER the main consoles lunch it makes even less sense, with Microsoft willingly holding back their games for a period of time for a system that isn't even out yet.
Yeah I just don't get it. If Lockhart comes AFTER the main consoles lunch it makes even less sense, with Microsoft willingly holding back their games for a period of time for a system that isn't even out yet.
Honestly, as we see that even Matt was surprised, I would take anything we currently know with a huge grain of salt, besides the fact that Lockhart exists.
It can't be that huge because a lot of Sony devs have released big games not to long ago. Q4 2021+22 will be big.
i guess they can do that through a trade in deal, trade your base ps4 to save $100 or trade a Pro for $150 on the PS5, meaning you effectively pay 349/399 depending on the console you had.
If they manage to release Horizon, and Spidey sequels in the next two years. 😱
The previous games already look stunning, can't imagine how good it's going to look.
Horizon for the beginning of the year, DLC at the end of it.
Spider Man "3" is planned for 14 july 2021, so I think they can take full advantage of it.
Yeah that is a good point. I guess even working on a remake not worrying about old ass tech will let Bluepoint be way more ambitious in terms of fidelity even if the scope isn't massively expanded.
Aaanyway, if both next gen consoles are REALLY better than 2080 and Anaconda is around PS4 Pro
I second the please Phil dont do this crowd.
I second the please Phil dont do this crowd.
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